Dean Bailey, I hope you're watching

[pitmaster 3,549]

It's fascinating to think back to the win over Essendon, and amid Bailey's celebrations he walked over to Viney and ruffled his hair as though to rub in a point. It would seem Viney was making his views known internally and has been at odds with Bailey's approach for much of the year. The scale of our defeats, before this week's umpire assisted loss, back up the allegation that we do not know how to defend.

[H_T 3,043]

but we are developing backwards.

I have little interest now in excuses the MFC is littered with them.

Whatever way you want to look at it 2011 is a major reversal from last year.

I'm not surprised at reactions like these. It was mentioned on these boards prior to the season starting that we were in for a rocky time ('forecast is for pain') with the change in dynamics of the team (particularly midfield and lack of experience, leadership) and the progress that other sides had made to their game styles and how we hadn't caught up with the Jones'. Pre-season form and key injuries at the time were key indicators as well.

At the time, many spruiked 'finals only and no excuses' - otherwise "we're developing backwards" would be the call. They didn't invisage what might transpire.

Now it's for all to see.

[old dee 23,788]

I'm not surprised at reactions like these. It was mentioned on these boards prior to the season starting that we were in for a rocky time ('forecast is for pain') with the change in dynamics of the team (particularly midfield and lack of experience, leadership) and the progress that other sides had made to their game styles and how we hadn't caught up with the Jones'. Pre-season form and key injuries at the time were key indicators as well.

At the time, many spruiked 'finals only and no excuses' - otherwise "we're developing backwards" would be the call. They didn't invisage what might transpire.

Now it's for all to see.

Come on HT be honest did you in your wildest dreams think it would be this bad?

I believe i went into 2012 with modest expectations for the year based on a lot of what you say.

but I did not think we would go seriously backwards from 2010 both on and off the field

[daisycutter 29,613]

Quotes from the article

"For me, it's been a concentration on the fundamentals we have been poor at all year," Viney said.

" 'Bails' has been good at teaching them offensively, but when we have lost games defensively, we have been going over the wall.

"From my experience at Hawthorn and Adelaide, it's more defensive structures (that win games), so the defensive intent has been a focus on trying to get the ball back.

"We don't want to be counter-attacking from the defensive 50,

because the game has progressed now."

He said that Bailey has not taught the players how to play defensively, and when he was at two other clubs the coaches had a much better understanding of how to win games. Viney also says that they have to change the game plan because the game has progressed, and MFC have not moved with the rest of the competition . That's about as much of a shot at Baileys coaching as he could do.

What I don’t understand is that this was so obvious to everyone (aliases of e45 excluded), including Viney, but Bailey could not see it.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/demons-build-on-defensive-tactics/story-e6frf9jf-1226118364174

E had a lot of friends too (not counting his aliases)

[Guest Gareth Keenan]

Quotes from the article

"For me, it's been a concentration on the fundamentals we have been poor at all year," Viney said.

" 'Bails' has been good at teaching them offensively, but when we have lost games defensively, we have been going over the wall.

"From my experience at Hawthorn and Adelaide, it's more defensive structures (that win games), so the defensive intent has been a focus on trying to get the ball back.

"We don't want to be counter-attacking from the defensive 50,

because the game has progressed now."

He said that Bailey has not taught the players how to play defensively, and when he was at two other clubs the coaches had a much better understanding of how to win games. Viney also says that they have to change the game plan because the game has progressed, and MFC have not moved with the rest of the competition . That's about as much of a shot at Baileys coaching as he could do.

What I don’t understand is that this was so obvious to everyone (aliases of e45 excluded), including Viney, but Bailey could not see it.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/demons-build-on-defensive-tactics/story-e6frf9jf-1226118364174

Fair summation.

Listening to Mark Williams pre-game yesterday, the method of ball movement has been tweaked significantly to limit the damage caused by a turnover.

During the match, I could see players fighting their instincts to move the ball differently to previously.

Time will tell.

Fwiw, I supported Bailey too, and his gameplan, assuming that eventually a more defensive emphasis would be placed on things at a later stage.

I still think there was a clear effort made in terms of development for tomorrow, at the expense of today.

I'm beginning to believe that was folly.

[Jack7 528]

We haven't developed our young players like say Hawthorn has.Look at the progress of Savage,Puopolo,Bruest,Suckling and even Cheney has improved after leaving us.

They would all be playing at Casey if they were on our list.

[H_T 3,043]

Come on HT be honest did you in your wildest dreams think it would be this bad?I believe i went into 2012 with modest expectations for the year based on a lot of what you say.

but I did not think we would go seriously backwards from 2010 both on and off the field

I expected not to make the finals, finish just outside, probably not as turbulent as some of the results has shown, but certainly some ups and downs. Off field drama's aside.

Here were a couple of posts from the thread "What does our season hold ?" :

What does this season hold ?

In short. Further development. For those expecting finals ? I would say there are some valid aspects that add weight to the belief we might have to hold on for some disappointment. Temper your expectations - for now. Smile if we do.

Key indicators:

• Pre-season form
  
• Injuries - Frawley, Morton, McKenzie
  
• No Bruce, no Junior. (loss of experience)
  
• Inexperience (need more games together)
  
• Youngest list next to Suns.
  
• Midfield (inexperience and losses of Junior, McKenzie(inj) will impact on clearances, tackling etc)
  

Regarding coaching - hold onto that thought. Assess season; address later. But recognise, be mindful and take into account our list.

I hear you. My immediate concerns still remain the midfield, the figures from last year tell the true story and as I've stated elsewhere in other threads that without the retired Junior - and now a fit McKenzie for nearly a third of the season at least, as well as Scully now out for 4 weeks - our clearances at stoppages will be left to the 'prime-movers' - as you have made mention.

On the bright side, it will hopefully quicken the development the midfield youngsters like Bail, Jetta, Trengove, Gysberts in the absence of others.

Agree on Bruce & Junior moving on, we'll notice their absence short term but it will allow others to be given a chance to step up to the plate at AFL.

[45HG 1,539]

...

I'd have to say that this season has been much worse than I expected. Perhaps I'm too much of an optimist and didn't see the rubbish brewing.

Shall we bump your "is Liam Jurrah a star" thread HT ?

[H_T 3,043]

Why would you want to bump that for, it's off topic.

[45HG 1,539]

Why would you want to bump that for, it's off topic.

You bumped it every time he got a kick last year!

[H_T 3,043]

You bumped it every time he got a kick last year!

Ha ! Nice one.

Guilty as charged then 45. I may have bumped it once...Rudeboy may have been another.

Did a few good things yesterday (kicked relatively straight, bar one), but also could have made better decisions defensively and contesting. Should have handballed to Sylvia too IIRC, before missing a goal from 50.

Bordering on flaming - 2 weeks MRP.

Edited August 22, 2011 by High Tower

[Demon Disciple 12,122]

What has been proven since Bailey's sacking, is that the board has been vindicated in their decision to remove Bailey swiftly. Recent results clearly show that he had the team in neutral then going backwards at a rapid rate. If CC and CS saw this and tried to reverse such a trend, then they can only be commended, as they were only one of a few it seems, to actually give a stuff about the MFC, not only long-term, but for the immediate future. Unfortunately we, as a club, cannot take a million years to come good, as we don't have the huge membership base and revenue streams to keep us afloat through numerous years of underachievement.

It seems that Bailey and the playing group were in la-la land believing that the plan in place would guarantee a premiership, with very little to no changes needed along the way. This is an extremely naive view, one that cannot stand. We have gone so far backwards this year, and the "development" bullshitter believers aside (who will see a small ray of hope in any circumstance), with the favourable draw we were given this year, anything less than finals should've and has been seen as unacceptable. We will probably equal the same points level as last year, 8.5 wins (with such a good draw and another year of "development").

The media were sent into a feeding frenzy and started to stick the boots in, saying we acted to early on Bailey and how the board/FD were in disarray. The FD of CC etc, and CS, if they tried to amend such shortcomings, have to be commended for at least trying to get us back on track, and it seems the board made the correct choice in removing Bailey as quickly as possible, as the longer he was in charge, the more damage he would have done. As such, we are not in as bad a shape as most in the media would have us believe, yes we have some problems (as Don has stated, and will be rectified), but so does any club at one point or another. At least they had the balls to make a stand, one way or the other, and are now putting us back on track. The playing group need a real rocket sent up them, at least we appear to be a little stabler off-field as what was made out. I continue to have full confidence in the MFC, the playing group is the one that should be and is in the gun. And rightly so.

Edited August 22, 2011 by Demon Disciple

[Dee Fan 3,247]

What has been proven since Bailey's sacking, is that the board has been vindicated in their decision to remove Bailey swiftly. Recent results clearly show that he had the team in neutral then going backwards at a rapid rate. If CC and CS saw this and tried to reverse such a trend, then they can only be commended, as they were only one of a few it seems, to actually give a stuff about the MFC, not only long-term, but for the immediate future. Unfortunately we, as a club, cannot take a million years to come good, as we don't have the huge membership base and revenue streams to keep us afloat through numerous years of underachievement.

It seems that Bailey and the playing group were in la-la land believing that the plan in place would guarantee a premiership, with very little to no changes needed along the way. This is an extremely naive view, one that cannot stand. We have gone so far backwards this year, and the "development" bullshitter believers aside (who will see a small ray of hope in any circumstance), with the favourable draw we were given this year, anything less than finals should've and has been seen as unacceptable. We will probably equal the same points level as last year, 8.5 wins (with such a good draw and another year of "development").

The media were sent into a feeding frenzy and started to stick the boots in, saying we acted to early on Bailey and how the board/FD were in disarray. The FD of CC etc, and CS, if they tried to amend such shortcomings, have to be commended for at least trying to get us back on track, and it seems the board made the correct choice in removing Bailey as quickly as possible, as the longer he was in charge, the more damage he would have done. As such, we are not in as bad a shape as most in the media would have us believe, yes we have some problems (as Don has stated, and will be rectified), but so does any club at one point or another. At least they had the balls to make a stand, one way or the other, and are now putting us back on track. The playing group need a real rocket sent up them, at least we appear to be a little stabler off-field as what was made out. I continue to have full confidence in the MFC, the playing group is the one that should be and is in the gun. And rightly so.

Agree with most of that if the press had their way CS and CC would be gone and Bailey would still be there and Caro would be writing about the great way we handled it. Perhaps there were reasons why the Andrews Report was shelved perhaps it was because CS and CC could see we were going in the wrong direction and wanted the coach removed but the players and the coach came out more favourable in the report.

It's now clear that we were going down the wrong track and that it would have been a disaster to re appoint Bailey and was in fact the wrong move to extend is contract when we did. I firmly believe we need to have a total shake up in the football department including the assistant coaches, the recruiters, the medical staff and the players themselves. They were/are all too comfortable.

Perhaps the board will be vindicated by extending Cameron Schwab's contract.

[Slartibartfast 17,265]

What has been proven since Bailey's sacking, is that the board has been vindicated in their decision to remove Bailey swiftly.

with the favourable draw

Can you explain what has happened since Bailey's sacking that "vindicates" the Boards decision to act swiftly? We've lost every game since and lost to a team Bailey beat just a few weeks ago. I've seen nothing tangibly different.

The draw was favourable? There are 5 teams that seem to be clearly ahead of the rest. We have played them 8 times. We play 22 games and less that 8 we have 14 "winnables". We've played 12 and won 7.5 with 2 possibles to come. We were also forced to play 4 games in 18 days and I don't think any other team had to do that.

The only advantage I can see in our current position is that we are now in a position to seek a new coach but the process to get to that point was shambolic, undignified and atrociously timed and managed.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Can you explain what has happened since Bailey's sacking that "vindicates" the Boards decision to act swiftly? We've lost every game since and lost to a team Bailey beat just a few weeks ago. I've seen nothing tangibly different.

The draw was favourable? There are 5 teams that seem to be clearly ahead of the rest. We have played them 8 times. We play 22 games and less that 8 we have 14 "winnables". We've played 12 and won 7.5 with 2 possibles to come. We were also forced to play 4 games in 18 days and I don't think any other team had to do that.

The only advantage I can see in our current position is that we are now in a position to seek a new coach but the process to get to that point was shambolic, undignified and atrociously timed and managed.

So you would have been happy to continue with Bailey? You think the year has gone to plan so far?

We had the choice of staying with a coach who had a plan that may win us enough games a year to get us near or in the bottom pat of the 8 and keep his job safe, or changing the coach and acknowledging that his game plan just wasn't up to it or more to the point the; players we have weren't/aren't capable of playing the Geelong style of game. That's of course because we don't have their talent.

It's always unfortunate when you have to sack a coach mid term, but for us, as we are at the moment, it's better that we have time to get a new coach for the coming pre season and draft period that appoint one after the fact.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I expected not to make the finals, finish just outside, probably not as turbulent as some of the results has shown, but certainly some ups and downs. Off field drama's aside.

Here were a couple of posts from the thread "What does our season hold ?" :

I noticed that quite a few had Cook as their best first year player; how could this be when questioned him I was told his body wasn't ready for AFL football? Did he lose weight between prediction time and the first match?

Edited August 22, 2011 by RobbieF

[old dee 23,788]

I noticed that quite a few had Cook as their best first year player; how could this be when questioned him I was told his body wasn't ready for AFL football? Did he lose weight between prediction time and the first match?

No Robbie reality set in!

[old dee 23,788]

I expected not to make the finals, finish just outside, probably not as turbulent as some of the results has shown, but certainly some ups and downs. Off field drama's aside.

Here were a couple of posts from the thread "What does our season hold ?" :

I acknomledge Ht that you were not pridicting a great season.

However I still see nothing in you writings that suggest the debacle that 2011 has turned into.

Edited August 22, 2011 by old dee

[dee-luded 2,959]

Can you explain what has happened since Bailey's sacking that "vindicates" the Boards decision to act swiftly? We've lost every game since and lost to a team Bailey beat just a few weeks ago. I've seen nothing tangibly different.

The draw was favourable? There are 5 teams that seem to be clearly ahead of the rest. We have played them 8 times. We play 22 games and less that 8 we have 14 "winnables". We've played 12 and won 7.5 with 2 possibles to come. We were also forced to play 4 games in 18 days and I don't think any other team had to do that.

The only advantage I can see in our current position is that we are now in a position to seek a new coach but the process to get to that point was shambolic, undignified and atrociously timed and managed.

The decision by some behind the scenes at the start of the Year or Before, to do things that started to Undermine bailey as Coach has put the players at odds with the club. It was the same re the removal of Junior.

It was plainly Obvious we were Off Form in our Preseason with Injuries to Key personnel, But also disharmony. This derailed Our season, not so much re the ladder position, But moreso the Way we played in the Big games.

Yes we were playing a rebound game but that wasn't the Big Issue with our form. The fragile harmony was the main Issue IMO, that contributed to our disjointed efforts under pressure.

Well, here we are, at the Ending of another season, stronger. Yet unconvincing.

At least one thing will come out of this Year. It has Exposed the weak from the honest. Something that will be Very useful as we move forward.

[old dee 23,788]

The decision by some behind the scenes at the start of the Year or Before, to do things that started to Undermine bailey as Coach has put the players at odds with the club. It was the same re the removal of Junior.

It was plainly Obvious we were Off Form in our Preseason with Injuries to Key personnel, But also disharmony. This derailed Our season, not so much re the ladder position, But moreso the Way we played in the Big games.

Yes we were playing a rebound game but that wasn't the Big Issue with our form. The fragile harmony was the main Issue IMO, that contributed to our disjointed efforts under pressure.

Well, here we are, at the Ending of another season, stronger. Yet unconvincing.

At least one thing will come out of this Year. It has Exposed the weak from the honest. Something that will be Very useful as we move forward.

Dee-luded I am struggling with this line

"Well, here we are, at the Ending of another season, stronger. Yet unconvincing."

Can you explain this comment bit more for me please

Edited August 22, 2011 by old dee

[pantaloons 2,019]

The draw was favourable? There are 5 teams that seem to be clearly ahead of the rest. We have played them 8 times. We play 22 games and less that 8 we have 14 "winnables". We've played 12 and won 7.5 with 2 possibles to come. We were also forced to play 4 games in 18 days and I don't think any other team had to do that.

I'm nitpicking here Fan, but I have to take you up on the point about the draw. The bottom 5 for most of this year (including Richmond) was as shocking on-field as you're likely to see, and we've got also 8 games against them, having played 6 already for 5 wins. The teams around the middle of the table are quite average this year and we finished below 50% against them (2-3-1 vs. Syd, St.K, Ess, Freo, NM, WB). We travelled interstate 4 times, with one of these being a 'home' game against Port in Darwin, and two of the other three being against Port at the Adelaide Oval away from our hated Football Park and against the Gold Coast, also away from their normal home venue. It was as the club acknowledged at the time of the draw's release, a great playing draw but not such a great money-making one. We'll struggle to get as favourable draw again.

Essentially though, you're right in the sense that the Bailey sacking was ugly and hasn't achieved a great deal. That said, I firmly believe he should not have been re-appionted for 2012.

[Slartibartfast 17,265]

So you would have been happy to continue with Bailey? You think the year has gone to plan so far?

I'm in no position to judge Robbie and I genuinely mean that. I'm not debating Bailey's sacking, I'm merely asking what has happened since to "vindicate" it.

I didn't expect any more wins this year than we've achieved but I did expect to be much more competitive in the games we've lost. Disappointingly we've not picked off a "good" side (Essendon were playing terribly when we played them) but we've not lost a game I thought we should win until yesterday.

I've no issue with Bailey being sacked, people much more qualified than me make that call, but the process was a shambles and if the same people who were in charge of that are in charge of picking the new coach I'm not filled with confidence.

Pants I hear what you're saying about the draw but I was just trying to point out that it wasn't a "soda". WC were considered two wins at the beginning of the season, it would have been nice to pick off WB or Saints but we played WB when they were playing their best footy and we were seriously injured when we played Saints (and North).

The size of the loses is the most concerning thing but I repeat "what has happened since Bailey's sacking that vindicates it"? That's all I'm asking.

[pantaloons 2,019]

I'm in no position to judge Robbie and I genuinely mean that. I'm not debating Bailey's sacking, I'm merely asking what has happened since to "vindicate" it.

I didn't expect any more wins this year than we've achieved but I did expect to be much more competitive in the games we've lost. Disappointingly we've not picked off a "good" side (Essendon were playing terribly when we played them) but we've not lost a game I thought we should win until yesterday.

I've no issue with Bailey being sacked, people much more qualified than me make that call, but the process was a shambles and if the same people who were in charge of that are in charge of picking the new coach I'm not filled with confidence.

Pants I hear what you're saying about the draw but I was just trying to point out that it wasn't a "soda". WC were considered two wins at the beginning of the season, it would have been nice to pick off WB or Saints but we played WB when they were playing their best footy and we were seriously injured when we played Saints (and North).

The size of the loses is the most concerning thing but I repeat "what has happened since Bailey's sacking that vindicates it"? That's all I'm asking.

Thanks Fan. Agree with all you've said there. Am I naive/too simplistic, or if indeed the decision to not re-appoint Bailey for 2012 was already made, was it 'easier' to sack him after a 186-point catastrophe as opposed to after three straight wins to end the season on 10 1/2 wins?

[Jaded No More 68,913]

The only advantage I can see in our current position is that we are now in a position to seek a new coach but the process to get to that point was shambolic, undignified and atrociously timed and managed.

This seems to be a common theme at this club. Why?

[H_T 3,043]

I acknomledge Ht that you were not pridicting a great season.

However I still see nothing in you writings that suggest the debacle that 2011 has turned into.

Maybe I wanted to give a positive outlook. But I thought "in for some disappointment" may have covered it.