It's The Midfield Stupid!

[darkhorse72 1,718]

Simply control of the ball makes you look faster.  We don't need a lighting midfield, but a couple of quick players and 'm sure we are looking.

But by controlling the ball with great disposal and speed the ball will be faster than out foot speed.

Its going the right way.

[Fat Tony 4,366]

15 minutes ago, A F said:

Add Jack to that list of guys who isn't that quick either. I'd say he's average.

And this has become an interesting debate across 2016. Do we need outside pace or backs more? Now that our defence seems a lot more settled, I think the debate must change to is it outside pace we need or more inside ball-winning ability? Obviously, we need both, but what's the priority? I think inside ball winners who can bring others (read - outside players) into the game.

I think it's an easy question to answer.

N Jones, Viney, Oliver and Tyson all play 70-80% game time as centre square mids and are not really suited to playing elsewhere. And they are all obviously bonafide AFL footballers. Unless we trade one of them out for a better option, I don't see how another inside mid is required. Added to that we have Brayshaw, Petracca and Vandenberg who have all shown potential to become AFL standard inside mids. Plus Vince, who is still in our best eight players and still seems to play his best footy in the midfield.

On the outside we have Stretch, Bugg and M Jones.

That's not to say I would say no to Fyfe or Dangerfield.

[Binmans PA 25,894]

22 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

I think it's an easy question to answer.

N Jones, Viney, Oliver and Tyson all play 70-80% game time as centre square mids and are not really suited to playing elsewhere. And they are all obviously bonafide AFL footballers. Unless we trade one of them out for a better option, I don't see how another inside mid is required. Added to that we have Brayshaw, Petracca and Vandenberg who have all shown potential to become AFL standard inside mids. Plus Vince, who is still in our best eight players and still seems to play his best footy in the midfield.

On the outside we have Stretch, Bugg and M Jones.

That's not to say I would say no to Fyfe or Dangerfield.

Let's not mention Vandenberg. He's in the same basket as Bugg, but even more untidy. He is probably the worst handballer for an AFL player I have ever seen. His kicking leaves a bit to be desired too. I think you'll see Jones, Viney, Oliver and Tyson rotating in and out of the centre square as that's what the modern game demands. Flexibility and unpredictability. As we saw at the back end of the season, Brayshaw was also playing key midfield minutes, he would just rotate with one of the aforementioned guys. As did Petracca.

And on the outside, we have Stretch, Hunt, Melksham and M Jones. It's not good enough, I agree, especially if you compare it with GWS' outside mids, but if you can get players who bring their team mates (whatever position they're playing) into the game, they're the guys I want in the midfield. Oliver is definitely that type of player. So is Tom Mitchell. Their hands are brilliant.

[DeeSpencer 23,058]

I think the speed of Petracca, Brayshaw, Oliver and Viney won't be an issue. The fitter and stronger they get the quicker they get. We've seen it with Viney. He's run down players, run around players and ran through them and he's still developing physically. He doesn't have elite speed or elite natural endurance but there's very few inside mids who could run away from him.

Burst speed is what you need at clearances and they all have it. 

Dom Tyson is going to have to rely on smarts a bit more, but that's ok. He's got the ability to move in tight spaces. I just wish he'd have a right foot good enough to make simple kicks on.

We need outside runners and we need a bit more class from both flanks. Everyone is aware of that. 

After that I think we need to train for footy smarts with the ability to apply and work through pressure. The contested ball focus means most of our side can win the ball. Brendan McCartney's job is to train footy smarts and skills really. Goodwin's job is to come up with a game style that puts pressure on other sides when they have the ball and a pattern of play for when we get the ball that makes decisions easier. The remaining 6 sides have game styles that are very recognisable. 

[CP5 166]

9 hours ago, picket fence said:

You are Kidding arent you Biff?? Brayshaw SLOW, Viney SLOW, JONES & SALEM, not that quick!!

The Rest?? other than Petracca who still needs developing, we are stiil A SLOW one paced Midfield! Clarry has ultra quick hands, too fast for some of our guys to fully utilize! 

Will be lucky to make Sept 2017 with this Midfield! IMO

Brayshaw isn't slow and Viney is quicker than both Jones and Salem.

Dangerfield is a freak and the only truly explosive inside mid in the league.

Pace is usually the last building block for a quality midfield.  There's no doubt we need an Isaac Smith or Bradley Hill, but the ingredients of a quality midfield are coming together very nicely. 

[FlashInThePan 1,893]

10 hours ago, picket fence said:

And so the story goes!!

Well, after watching teams that have outstanding quick decisive mids in the final series so far, I have to say.....

That unless we have game breaking ultra Quick mids.. we aint going anywhere!!

Jones, Viney, Tyson aren't quick enough!

Not like Geelong, Doggies, Greater Western mids!! 

We will really struggle to compete if we are to challenge for the 8 next year.

Some solutions....

For a start, Jayden Hunt moves to the midfield!

Garlett also rotates but beyond that, and other than Clarry Choo Choo's Lightning hands.. we still will not match it with the fleet of foot!!

This will be a major problem I believe!!

Really? This is a bit alarmist. Plenty of teams have dominated without having ultra quick mids, Hawthorn was one of them for quite some time as was Geelong. Good contested play and pin point passing will make other teams do the running, and make a team look quick. None of those you've mentioned are plodders, just not ultra quick and we do have Hunt and Garlett as well as both Frost and Watts who are pretty fast when they get on their bikes.

I don't think speed is the big deficiency that is holding us back. We have been shown up against more mature, experienced, big bodied midfields. I actually think the future looks vey bright for this list. Another pre-season into Hogan, Hunt, OMac, Wiedeman, Clary, Brayshaw and Patracca will make a huge difference, both to their ability to stay over the ball and contest as well as their composure and disposal. Yeah, some extra speed might be nice but I think the recruiting over the past couple of years has brought in something better than speed: raw ability mixed with fighting spirit.

[rjay 23,866]

11 hours ago, picket fence said:

You have it in one! Dangerfield! Worth 2 players, and carves up opposition!

He rag dolled Viney in the first 5 minutes of the Geelong Debacle! RAG DOLLED!

We need to offer the world for a quick, decisive, MID !! A SUPERSTAR!

Otherwise we shall remain, thereabouts!

OK...

Name one, Dangerfield is gone who else is there?

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

2 minutes ago, rjay said:

OK...

Name one, Dangerfield is gone who else is there?

Petracca after a full pre season, I hope....

[beelzebub 22,225]

4 hours ago, FlashInThePan said:

Really? This is a bit alarmist. Plenty of teams have dominated without having ultra quick mids, Hawthorn was one of them for quite some time as was Geelong. Good contested play and pin point passing will make other teams do the running, and make a team look quick. None of those you've mentioned are plodders, just not ultra quick and we do have Hunt and Garlett as well as both Frost and Watts who are pretty fast when they get on their bikes.

I don't think speed is the big deficiency that is holding us back. We have been shown up against more mature, experienced, big bodied midfields. I actually think the future looks vey bright for this list. Another pre-season into Hogan, Hunt, OMac, Wiedeman, Clary, Brayshaw and Patracca will make a huge difference, both to their ability to stay over the ball and contest as well as their composure and disposal. Yeah, some extra speed might be nice but I think the recruiting over the past couple of years has brought in something better than speed: raw ability mixed with fighting spirit.

welcome.... like the nic  btw

Agree with most of that but would temper the enthusiasm with this caveat. We need more class in the midfield. We have semblances of good players , most of the time  but often the games seem like stitched together cameos at times. There indeed lies the possibility that more games, better tanks and continued development via the coaching will provide some of this desperately needed class. If however we could get one off the shlef from somewhere it would make a considerable difference.

[Radar Detector 1,339]

The ability to move the ball quickly doesn't require supreme leg speed. It requires superior execution of basic skills like kicking and handballing.

Geelong's premiership sides moved the ball quicker than anyone with barely a speedster among them.

The best way to improve our speed would be to really sharpen our skills over summer. We are still a long way off the top teams in this area.

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

3 hours ago, beelzebub said:

welcome.... like the nic  btw

Agree with most of that but would temper the enthusiasm with this caveat. We need more class in the midfield. We have semblances of good players , most of the time  but often the games seem like stitched together cameos at times. There indeed lies the possibility that more games, better tanks and continued development via the coaching will provide some of this desperately needed class. If however we could get one off the shlef from somewhere it would make a considerable difference.

Class  Viney and Tyson are still a year or two off their peak   all the midfielders drooled over are mid to late twenties   time and experience is all that is needed for our young mids

Edited September 12, 2016 by Satyriconhome

[Binmans PA 25,894]

2 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Class  Viney and Tyson are still a year or two off their peak   all the midfielders drooled over are mid to late twenties   time and experience is all that is needed for our young mids

And continued development. They still need to continue to rectify areas of their game that require strengthening, otherwise it's thw Cameron Schwab way to build a football team.

[Dwight Schrute 16,722]

I am really confident with how our midfield is building we have an elite inside mid group Jones, Viney, Tyson, Brayshaw, Oliver and some quality outside players coming on Hunt, Stretch, Vince Petracca Kent ect so really development is the key

the beauty of our side is we have Max Gawn so we're going to win it out of the middle a lot of the time, especially as we improve, so it gives us the opportunity to play a clearance game and not need the speed quite as much as teams that might not have the same dominance out of the middle.

 

[Binmans PA 25,894]

1 hour ago, Abe said:

I am really confident with how our midfield is building we have an elite inside mid group Jones, Viney, Tyson, Brayshaw, Oliver and some quality outside players coming on Hunt, Stretch, Vince Petracca Kent ect so really development is the key

the beauty of our side is we have Max Gawn so we're going to win it out of the middle a lot of the time, especially as we improve, so it gives us the opportunity to play a clearance game and not need the speed quite as much as teams that might not have the same dominance out of the middle.

 

I've been thinking about Kent. Do you play him off half back or the wing most of the time and forgo a few goals from him? He did play very limited minutes in both positions this year, but I reckon he's always looked his best on the outside, streaming along a wing and being able to kick long. The long kicking enables him more margin for error with his disposal and given his pace is one of his biggesy assets, that's where I'd be playing him.

Hopefully he can find some consistency in that spot too.

Edited September 12, 2016 by A F

[leucopogon 1,468]

Kent is definitely one who has played that extra mid off the back of the square role this year along with Tracc, Hunt and others, Garlett? A pacy winger with a good tank like Isaac Smith would be good but I reckon a giant mid in the mold of Fyfe, Patrick Cripps, Bont could also be a good addition to capitalise on Gawns ruck dominance.

[DEE fence 4,415]

I don't know who said it, but no 9ne is quicker than a well placed, flat drop punt. Skills please.

[Binmans PA 25,894]

39 minutes ago, leucopogon said:

Kent is definitely one who has played that extra mid off the back of the square role this year along with Tracc, Hunt and others, Garlett? A pacy winger with a good tank like Isaac Smith would be good but I reckon a giant mid in the mold of Fyfe, Patrick Cripps, Bont could also be a good addition to capitalise on Gawns ruck dominance.

Yep, he definitely did. Should play there more consistently. And you're right, we could exploit his hardness by running him through the midfield in the mould of those aforementioned players. Tank and concentration would be the major stumbling blocks there, but I wonder if that's what they're planning for him? He'd be quite a bit shorter than those three though.

Edited September 12, 2016 by A F

[CBDees 3,162]

It would be a bonus if Trenners was in the mix after a full pre-season. He has been consistently one of the best for Casey this year. (And when drafted he was regarded on par with $cully who is proving to be one of the best at GW$)! 

 

Edited September 12, 2016 by CBDees

[Diamond_Jim 11,679]

12 minutes ago, CBDees said:

It would be a bonus if Trenners was in the mix after a full pre-season. He has been consistently one of the best for Casey this year. (And when drafted he was regarded on par with $cully who is proving to be one of the best at GW$)! 

 

That is the unknown is it not. If he becomes a top 10 player on our list rather than one who goes in and out of the team we have a big win.

Fingers crossed but MFC is usually not the place for fairy tale endings

I'm a big believer in dividing the team into groups of 6or so. The top 6 are those who not only get picked every week but who would reasonably walk inot any other club.

TBH in 2015 it was hard to find that top 6. Now with Gawn, the youngsters and Watts coming on it gets a little easier.

[CP5 166]

2 hours ago, A F said:

I've been thinking about Kent. Do you play him off half back or the wing most of the time and forgo a few goals from him? He did play very limited minutes in both positions this year, but I reckon he's always looked his best on the outside, streaming along a wing and being able to kick long. The long kicking enables him more margin for error with his disposal and given his pace is one of his biggesy assets, that's where I'd be playing him.

Hopefully he can find some consistency in that spot too.

To be a damaging outside running midfielder you need to be an outstanding two-way runner.  I don't see Kent ever taking up this role.

He's a half-forward for me with short stints up the ground.