Food for Thought

[Choko 493]

Those people need to have a good lie down and bex or grow up or both.

Again this is just for the hysterical supporter. Every football coach knows how upnpredictable the future is. All the goals are set and worked on behind the scenes. The Club has been putting clear and repeated messages out on expectations. Whether people or hear them or not.

Its great to know good clubs dont accept mediocrity. I just did not know Carlton, Essendon and WCE are good clubs. I would have thought they have both displayed sufficient dollops of mediocrity both on and off the field to shame the "not so good clubs".

And when you made the reference about Essendon's actions where do you think blatant tanking fits in that level of effort. Do you realise what the Club has sought to manufacture at MFC? You're under the assumption that our progress will upwards linear where that may not be the case. It certainly wasnt for Geelong. And as for Ratten, he has a list thats 2 years older than MFCs, taken a gilt edged star in Judd, purchased a big man in Warnock then taken the deicision to court then sack Fevola. Of course the acid is on them. Top 4 or else he has gone. Judd wont be there for ever.

And its great Worsfold has committed to "significant improvement". They were wooden spooners last year with a mature underperforming list. How low could they go??? And they have set the season off on a burner beating 2 combatants for the wooden spoon Port Adelaide and Brisbane. WoW!

Last year I heard all the Round 2 experts eulogising about what Brad Scott has done to North Melb and MFC should take a leaf out of their book. I am not sure now those same people are audible or they wont any leaves out of their book.

Behind all your posts RR, you really do speak a lot of spin. I think you do it to counteract the negativity and hysteria, but honestly, your above post is just picking convenient bits, making noise and avoiding the issue.

The issue is that our club has sought to distance itself from criticism and scrutiny. Other clubs, all of whom are more professional, more well-resourced and have enjoyed more recent (20 yrs) success, have not sought to distance themselves from scrutiny. Really simple.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Unfortunately youing players will be inconsistently good and bad. Its a pity the senior players are displaying those tendencies too. Its a poor road map for the younger brigade. To be honest bonkers we are not doing enough outside the 50 metre arcs, more importantly across across the midfield. I would have thought what should have you made was that at half time, Hawthorn will still winning the centre clearances. This got worse after 1/2 time.

I am not sure where it was reported if indeed it was but I dont think anyone in the Club would have found that performance up to standard. Its was awful. But unlike yourself too many posters have delved into self serving tailspin frenzy that is as useful and successful as trying to pour water up hill.

Why do you think the Club would not be asking some stiff questions internally. In fact Roos in his final years did cop a few beltings. And if we are talking aspirations, I would the Club has aspirations higher than that.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

The issue is that our club has sought to distance itself from criticism and scrutiny. Other clubs, all of whom are more professional, more well-resourced and have enjoyed more recent (20 yrs) success, have not sought to distance themselves from scrutiny. Really simple.

Either MFCSS or self indulgent spin of your own Choko.

And you dont think WCE has tried hard to avoid scrutiny???? Surely you jest.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Behind all your posts RR, you really do speak a lot of spin. I think you do it to counteract the negativity and hysteria, but honestly, your above post is just picking convenient bits, making noise and avoiding the issue.

The issue is that our club has sought to distance itself from criticism and scrutiny. Other clubs, all of whom are more professional, more well-resourced and have enjoyed more recent (20 yrs) success, have not sought to distance themselves from scrutiny. Really simple.

I don't agree with this with the current board, FD, etc.

They have been quite public in their expectations of the Club. we are currently in phase 2 of the process, which is the "In the Game" phase. few could argue that against Sydney and Hawthorn, we were in the game at half time. In previous years, especially against quality sides, we haven't been in the game at half time. I think yesterday, we tried so hard to be in the game at half time, that we ran out of puff. Add another preseason of weights and fitness training, we might have been still in the game at 3/4 time.

This is by no means accepting that if we are in the game at half time, then our work is done. we saw what it meant to be in the game against Sydney, we held our nerve and fought back. Yesterday, we didn't. It wont be often this year where we will be 27 points up in the 2nd quarter and have out opponents dominate a half like Hawthorn did yesterday.

I guess it's your perception of the targets that are made public. Win more quarters, increase our inside 50's and be in the game at half time. So far, we have got 2 out of 3, so I think we're on track so far (bit hard to tell considering it's only round 2!). But I can understand why that's not enough for some people (that's not a criticism).

[biggestred 5,081]

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[Red Sox 2]

It's my party and I'll cry if I want to.

It's well written RR and appreciate you tempering the fears of many with wonderful stats. Stats are great and it is clear that there is a bit of gulf in the list when it comes to experience.

But sometimes this game is very simple and can be stripped back to see just what unfolds before your eyes and what I saw yesterday was very very hard to take.

I'm very disappointed in the continual lack of urgency/effort that we either start a game or a qtr with. It seems it takes a bit of inspiration from an on field act or a lucky goal here or there before we gather momentum. I'll give you that this is a direct result of what your pointing out but there should be some more 'effort' when a siren sounds.

This is all from the coaching staff IMO. Without foundation because I only go with what I see but I've bitten the lip on this concern for far too long and it does not change one iota.

[Red Sox 2]

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Comedy Festival material this.

[Tony Tea 2,809]

The following is a comment I left at Back Page Lead two weeks ago:

The Demons have several problems. A couple, which you mention, are the transition and the youth/experience. The Dees' footy department have taken a major gamble by letting Bruce & McDonald go. They are banking on the young blokes coming through with an eye to next year (not 2011), but if Melbourne struggle to get their hands on the footy this season this will be held up as a root cause and the natives will get mighty restless. With that in mind it has been interseting to see Bailey & Schwab quietly massage Melbourne fans' expectations downwards. Another issue, which Gerard Healy & Mark Stevens mentioned, is the ability of good sides to pick apart the Demon defence. The way Essendon did it is similar to what Geelong (both with Thompson in the coaches box; and now three weeks ago with Sean Wellman providing inside oil) used to do: that is, spot up short targets in space just inside the 50, which is similar to a basketball team opening up the keyway by hitting threes. Draw opponents up the ground and you open spaces in behind.

My personal concern is size & aggression. Ever since John Northey left Melbourne have played "pretty" footy when they are on, but have not looked like winning when they are off. Why are they off? Because opposition coaches man up on Melbourne and force them into mistakes. Melbourne have barely won a match in the last 19 seasons where the other side has also played well. This is because Melbourne have lacked grunt under Bailey, Daniher, Balme & the two stand-in coaches. Until Melbourne realise that footy is about big blokes knocking over big blokes they will continue to struggle in big matches, simply because the opposition will knock them off the footy, block their running lines, scrag them into places where the footy doesn't go. This is why there will be games this year where Melbourne cannot get their hands on the footy at clearances because they will get muscled off the ball. Melbourne, despite Jones and Moloney's undoubted strength (McKenzie is important but might have OP and Gyzberts has not played enough footy) will sometimes get belted in close.

Malthouse, Sheedy, Roos & Matthews all understand that footy is a contact sport and that the biggest baddest sides usually win big matches. Go back through the years and you will almost universally find that the teams that win premierships do so on the back of big players, a solid defence and fierce man on man aggression. Northey knew that, Balme and Daniher never really embraced it, now it is up to Curley Bailey to instill in his players big game winning grunt.

[Friday 71]

NEVER ACCEPT MEDIOCRITY.

[Bonkers 994]

Do we know that it's not happening at our Club? Just because we don't publish it in the papers means that it's not happening? Do most of our supporters think that our entire Club accepts performances like that?

What's the options, drop 8 players for being pathetic, or make required changes and give the remainder a chance to redeem themselves? The former would be making a statement for the community to see, or is not dropping players stopping the community from seeing what statements have been made behind the scenes?

The only way we know that the issues are being addressed is by judging future performances, I'm sure internally the game would be reviewed & the performance wouldn't be accepted. It's the future mind set/mentality & performances that will show us if we are moving forward. So far this year we have seen a decent couple of wins in Adelaide, some pretty ordinary performances in the NAB Cup/Challenge against Essendon, Hawthorn & Brisbane. A decent showing Rd 1 against Sydney & an ordinary performance yesterday against the Hawks.

I wasn't at the games vs Hawthorn & Brisbane in the NAB Challenge however, I saw the loss to Essendon & yesterdays loss also. Similar mistakes are still being made coming out of defense in particular. I don't know if dropping players is really addressing the issue as I'm not sure what players are not performing their roles or what individual player instructions are in place. I would imagine a fair portion of responsibility has to be with the midfield group.

[e25 5]

NEVER ACCEPT MEDIOCRITY.

But what is "mediocrity" in AFL football?

- Is it enduring the tough periods of transition so that you can progress to be a truly great club again?

- Or is it hanging on to blokes like Bruce for too long, stifling the development of the talented kids we have stockpiled, just to get a few extra wins this year and lose to Hawthorn by "only 4 goals", but resigning ourselves to a middle of the ladder residency for the next decade..?

I'm willing to endure the hard times.

That isn't accepting mediocrity - it's not being fickle and committing to stay the course, no matter how hard it may be in the short-term.

[Finks 19]

It's taken you well over 11,000 post, to finally post something worth reading Rhino.

[Friday 71]

fickle? I'll still go everyweek.

Mediocrity is 18 men in the back half - not being able to innovate a way to break a zone defence. Not having the ticker to push harder and lay tacking pressure. Doing your job in the team. HElping each other out.

I've watched and said - you know what they're just kids.

ENOUGH.

not anymore. Schwarta or Neita (Any club great for that matter) needs to go down to those rooms tell them its unacceptable.

I don't care if you have played 1 game or 200. If you want to play for melbourne FC - STAND UP.

We've been through the pain, now it's time to stand up and be counted.

[satyricon 267]

.......the only bit I will add.... somebody said that if we continue to produce performances like that then the number of supporters will stop coming to games.....they can't be supporters if they do that....and they will be the ones jumping back on and expecting a grand final ticket in a few years time.......and I totally and completely agree with RR

[Range Rover 1,935]

Schwarta or Neita (Any club great for that matter) needs to go down to those rooms tell them its unacceptable.

I don't care if you have played 1 game or 200. If you want to play for melbourne FC - STAND UP.

We've been through the pain, now it's time to stand up and be counted.

Dermott Brereton did something similar about 7 years ago at halftime of a Hawthorn game. The players listened and their club responded (over the ensuing months and years). Line in the sand all that.

I guess there's something about a 5-time premiership legend telling you you're not hard enough.

Wish we had that kind of cultural effect at our club.

[e25 5]

Dermott Brereton did something similar about 7 years ago at halftime of a Hawthorn game. The players listened and their club responded (over the ensuing months and years). Line in the sand all that.

I guess there's something about a 5-time premiership legend telling you you're not hard enough.

Wish we had that kind of cultural effect at our club.

I don't think it made any difference, it just makes a good story.

The players aren't stupid - they know it is not acceptable and they will do what they can to change it.

A club legend telling them to will only needlessly reinforce what they already know.

[Friday 71]

Having someone who is idolised as a club legend saying - Unacceptable and pull your finger out - is inspiring.

It's been happening for thousands of years in war and about 100 years in footy.

Coaches inspiring players and Captains (even past players) lifting a team up is nothing new.

[Roost It 1,434]

Most important thing for the club to do this year: Sign Tom Scully

Most important thing for the club to do next year: Sign Jack Trengove.

[Dockett 32 1,239]

A lot of what has been said is calming, balanced and much the same as the comments as this time last year. Some posters suggest yesterday was nothing that serious to worry about. Sort of "She'll be right Jack" stuff.

However, it should be noted that we are a year on.

Most (I think) acknowledge we are in the growth phase and therefore should do better than our 2010.( Our draw assists here as well and should be factored.)

So while yesterday was disappointing and may have appeared to have been a step back, where we are in the middle of the season in terms of wins and where we are on the table should give an early indication of how we have performed.

A couple of months will begin to tell the future MFC story.

[Flying Cloud 152]

No knee jerk reaction, and I am sure many considered opinions on this thread and other are correct. But as a member and a supporter think I have the right to think yesterday's performance was pathetic and that the team and the coaches had better lift their game. I am not going to sit back and tell them it will be OK. If they don't pull their finger out then this sort of shellacking will continue.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Dermott Brereton did something similar about 7 years ago at halftime of a Hawthorn game. The players listened and their club responded (over the ensuing months and years). Line in the sand all that.

I guess there's something about a 5-time premiership legend telling you you're not hard enough.

Wish we had that kind of cultural effect at our club.

I dont.

It was a diaaster both on the field and as a PR exercise for the Hawks. Proved nothing but ill discipline that resulted in players being suspended It was dumb and embarrassing and Essendown slaughtered the Hawks that day.

There were a number of reasons why the Hawks rose up the ladder in subsequent years. The line in the sand was the low point.

As part of the rejuvenation of the club, Brereton was removed as in an official capacity from the Hawks soon after the debacle.

Wonderful player with a wonderful playing record. Just a peanut as a ex player and commentator (especially on tribunal cases and outcomes).

[titan_uranus 25,016]

All true.

We must work on what is controllable. I never want to see our players reduce their effort to a point where I could count on one hand the players who looked like they were trying. That has nothing to do with how much more talented, experienced or older the opposition is.

I also never want to see us have 26 chances to clear the ball from full back and fail every time. Again, that is more controllable than contested ball, clearances, controlling Lance Franklin and Cyril Rioli, and all those kind of things.

Hawthorn is better than us, but we are a hell of a lot better than what we showed yesterday, and that kind of football should be behind us.

[demon3165 2,718]

I mostly agree with you summary but what annoys me is the lack of effort sticking to their structures 100% of the time when things go wrong, and when things are going bad all our forward line ends up inside the centre square no wonder they can't get it out of the backline after all this time at least they should be able to do that. Remember football is about 80% above the shoulders.

[titan_uranus 25,016]

I mostly agree with you summary but what annoys me is the lack of effort sticking to their structures 100% of the time when things go wrong, and when things are going bad all our forward line ends up inside the centre square no wonder they can't get it out of the backline after all this time at least they should be able to do that. Remember football is about 80% above the shoulders.

Agree with that. Every time the going gets tough, the structure falls apart. For once I do not want to see a loose man behind the ball when we get a couple of goals behind, and when it gets worse I don't want to see the forward line behind the centre. When we are winning we often don't have anyone loose behind the ball and our forwards are deep enough so that on the turnover we have targets forward of the ball.

[drdrake 3,163]

Call me old fashioned but I can't understand when a team is smashing you why we just don't man up one on one. If they press we stand next to them make every contest a 50/50 to me this is basic it should slow the game down and if we get a fast break hopefully a Bennell, Jurrah or Watts(the fastest man on our list) can out run their opponent. Last night I saw our zone we had 5-6 players protecting space on the fat side(opposite side of the ground to where the ball is)why their man was at the contest winning easy footy. These players are basically, using an old term, seagulls waiting for a team mate to win the footy and kick it to them. The problem is Hawthorn had so many players around the contest we didn't win the footy and our Seagulls looking for easy kicks may have well been sitting it the stands.

If you zone forget the fat side there should be no space on the side of the ground the footy is, if they switch you work hard to move your zone to the other side.

Edited April 4, 2011 by drdrake