Cameron Bruce

[beelzebub 23,200]

Quite insightful there Rpfc ( many here just inciteful, sometimes even me lol )

Really just comes down to Mfc think he's X Cam thinks he's Y. Cam fell under the spell of thinking he really ought to have been paid all that coin so surely that was the yardstick . The club just gave hima reality check. He's perfectly entitled to seek best rewards as are we perfectly entitled to see it all for what it is.

[AllenIsLord13 1]

Mike Sheahan nails it in the Age - Veteran a loss, but young Demons must take up slack.

Life goes on and the club moves forward.

Most glaring insight from Sheehan:

"Brad Green becomes the club's most experienced player on 220 games, Aaron Davey is next with 139, Brent Moloney, Jared Rivers and Colin Sylvia the only others with more than 100 to their name.

By contrast, Collingwood will go into next year with 14 players with more than 100 games, and the Magpies see themselves as a developing group."

Not to compare ourselves directly to Pies, but even with, say, Cats on the rise there was a solid foundation of veterns mixed with exciting youngsters - we've now consistently lost some of our best veterans over past 3 years to the point we're reduced to 5! (nearly only 3 with Rivers and Moloney averaging about 10 games a season!)

Be interesting to see how Hawks go this year with their "mixed" recruitment policy (tho chances are could end up like North!)

Question for the future: will we end up doing some "topping up" with seniors in drafts when we get close?

[John Crow Batty 8,786]

I can't fathom all this needless worry about our youth. In a couple of years when the list is closer to its peak all the necessary experience will have been accumulated. Natural leaders will emerge or else we go to default as in some cases in the recent past. If we need to recruit an experienced player it will be done on a needs basis assuming there are suitable and available options IMO

Edited November 9, 2010 by america de cali

[titan_uranus 24,631]

Losing games of leadership isn't as important as losing players of leadership.

What I mean is that it's easy to tally the games played by departing players. What's harder is to measure how that transfered into leadership, on or off the field.

Moloney may have played just 108 games but he leads on the field like he's played 200.

Grimes exudes the poise and confidence of a 100 game player. He's played 26.

[rpfc 28,052]

Most glaring insight from Sheehan:

"Brad Green becomes the club's most experienced player on 220 games, Aaron Davey is next with 139, Brent Moloney, Jared Rivers and Colin Sylvia the only others with more than 100 to their name.

By contrast, Collingwood will go into next year with 14 players with more than 100 games, and the Magpies see themselves as a developing group."

Not to compare ourselves directly to Pies, but even with, say, Cats on the rise there was a solid foundation of veterns mixed with exciting youngsters - we've now consistently lost some of our best veterans over past 3 years to the point we're reduced to 5! (nearly only 3 with Rivers and Moloney averaging about 10 games a season!)

Be interesting to see how Hawks go this year with their "mixed" recruitment policy (tho chances are could end up like North!)

Question for the future: will we end up doing some "topping up" with seniors in drafts when we get close?

Yo do realise that we are a long way from where Collingwood and Geelong were?

Collingwood got their star kids from tanking in 2005 with Swan coming in 2001. Their Bruce equivalent would be Buckley (not in talent).

Geelong had amazing 200-2001 drafts. Their equivalent would be Graham.

The 100 gamers that are still developing will be all our talent from 07-09 when they have 5 years under their belt.

2012-2014 would be when they start to hit their straps.

And Bruce will be where?

We are trying to win a flag - get out of the way.

[1858 285]

Most glaring insight from Sheehan:

"Brad Green becomes the club's most experienced player on 220 games, Aaron Davey is next with 139, Brent Moloney, Jared Rivers and Colin Sylvia the only others with more than 100 to their name.

By contrast, Collingwood will go into next year with 14 players with more than 100 games, and the Magpies see themselves as a developing group."

Not to compare ourselves directly to Pies, but even with, say, Cats on the rise there was a solid foundation of veterns mixed with exciting youngsters - we've now consistently lost some of our best veterans over past 3 years to the point we're reduced to 5! (nearly only 3 with Rivers and Moloney averaging about 10 games a season!)

I think what we're seeing here is the aftermath of the generation gap we have had over the years. We didn't have enough quality on our list 3 yrs ago in around the 25 age bracket with players on either end making up most of our list. The top enders are simply gone now its that simple. Jones is still just 22 and could be a 100 gamer by round 9 next year which is arguably a result of that gap.

wrt experience, we do have 3 players in the 90s and 2 in the 80s so by year end we could have another 5 100 gamers although 3 or 4 is more likely.

tbh I don't see any point in worrying about other teams like Collingwood. We need to remember who we are, where we are and what our goal is. There are many teams in the competition who are in a very similar position to us. When we make our challenge Collingwood will be the least of our worries.

Question for the future: will we end up doing some "topping up" with seniors in drafts when we get close?

I would be pretty surprised if we didn't bring in 1 or 2 along the path to glory.

[ox_5 163]

I would be pretty surprised if we didn't bring in 1 or 2 along the path to glory.

Which most premiership sides do or have tried to do. It's common practice, so yeah I expect it to happen with us also.

[Dee tention 611]

I think Bruce has made a big mistake if Jon Ralph's report is true.

He will be kicking himself at seasons end!

Good luck too him though. But I think club put a great offer on the table for him. If he played well next season it would be hard not give him another year.

In Maccas situation. Hamstring 5-6 weeks says it all. Hamstrings don't have a good track record after 30. Ask Ben Cousins, Robert Harvey & Nathan Buckley just too name a few. Miller just couldnt cut it.

[Demon Head 266]

I think Bruce has made a big mistake if Jon Ralph's report is true.

He will be kicking himself at seasons end!

He should be kicking himself the very minute he sets eyes on the article.

It's an absolute disgrace.

He was offered a contract and told that the club could not guarantee a second year. Nothing immoral about that and he's not being treated with contempt because according to the article he could have got more coin by staying at Melbourne and Bailey didn't [censored] him about his future prospects.

Morality only comes into it if he was weighing this up for some time and didn't inform the club of his intentions. Perhaps it might have been the moral thing to suggest that he be offered for trade?

[furious d 448]

He should be kicking himself the very minute he sets eyes on the article.

It's an absolute disgrace.

He was offered a contract and told that the club could not guarantee a second year. Nothing immoral about that and he's not being treated with contempt because according to the article he could have got more coin by staying at Melbourne and Bailey didn't [censored] him about his future prospects.

Morality only comes into it if he was weighing this up for some time and didn't inform the club of his intentions. Perhaps it might have been the moral thing to suggest that he be offered for trade?

Agree, only one party has played this immorally and it's not the club. How is honesty immoral Cam?

This pea hearted weakling ran from the challenge of earning his spot and dumped on the club to cover his rectum. WEAK!

Can't wait to shower him in abuse next year and I hope and pray Beama runs straight through him.

[Deeoldfart 7,996]

Sorry to go against the grain here of "too bad, so sad, slaters Brucey", but what else would we expect from forum commentators!

I've joined today purely to comment on this debacle, and what a fine debacle it is/was!......................................

Welcome to Demonland AIL13. Unfortunately you havn't made a very promising debut, but on a more positive note, many very good players started out the same way.

[nutbean 8,838]

This is not a comment regarding Cam, this is in response to the astounding number of posts having a go at "how we treat our players".

I say Bravo and its about time the MFC started acting professionally as this is a professional game. In business if you were limited to a certain number of employees and could only pay a certain amount of money then this discussion wouldnt be happening. No player wants to hear that the football club considers that their time is up. This is not played out in the media - there is dialogue with the players. Cameron Bruce didnt want to hear that we will only guarantee him one year. Ooze and Whitey - both wonderful players did not want to hear that there were better alternatives - go with the youth.

Players fit into clubs - clubs do not fit in with players. MFC has not seriously misread Cameron Bruce - the negotiations with Aaron Davey - he wanted four year - we wanted him and did not play Russian Roulette. With Cameron Bruce there was always a doubt that unless we could give him guarantees he would walk. The FD weighed up the risk and decided - take it - or leave it

Again - Bravo MFC for acting like a professional football club

[rpfc 28,052]

Welcome to Demonland AIL13. Unfortunately you havn't made a very promising debut, but on a more positive note, many very good players started out the same way.

Colin Garland!

[Red Sox 2]

Most glaring insight from Sheehan:

"Brad Green becomes the club's most experienced player on 220 games, Aaron Davey is next with 139, Brent Moloney, Jared Rivers and Colin Sylvia the only others with more than 100 to their name.

By contrast, Collingwood will go into next year with 14 players with more than 100 games, and the Magpies see themselves as a developing group."

Not to compare ourselves directly to Pies, but even with, say, Cats on the rise there was a solid foundation of veterns mixed with exciting youngsters - we've now consistently lost some of our best veterans over past 3 years to the point we're reduced to 5! (nearly only 3 with Rivers and Moloney averaging about 10 games a season!)

Be interesting to see how Hawks go this year with their "mixed" recruitment policy (tho chances are could end up like North!)

Question for the future: will we end up doing some "topping up" with seniors in drafts when we get close?

If we are having a shot at a flag from 2012 or 2013, how many will have played over 100 games by that stage? Mike Sheahan confirmed our development policy, he must believe that we are a premiership chance in 2011 then?

I hope so, but unlikely.

Good luck to Bruce, more game time into our young group that will hopefully bring home a flag. Much preferable than a record of 3rd place avg finishes over a decade.

That simply ends up in frustration.

[AllenIsLord13 1]

Welcome to Demonland AIL13. Unfortunately you havn't made a very promising debut, but on a more positive note, many very good players started out the same way.

I'd say its in line with Our Lord And Saviour, AJ:

6 possessions, 2 marks....

went on same season to bag 11 (plus The Scissor Kick Heard Round The World) + 3 Brownlows

and another 8 in the elimination final

[Deeoldfart 7,996]

Colin Garland!

Perfect example rpfc.

[Deeoldfart 7,996]

I'd say its in line with Our Lord And Saviour, AJ:

6 possessions, 2 marks....

went on same season to bag 11 (plus The Scissor Kick Heard Round The World) + 3 Brownlows

and another 8 in the elimination final

Of course!

[Robbie57 2,001]

First I wish Cam well he has given us a lot of pleasure over the years. I am sure he did not want to sell the club short on the trade situation and both sides had the belief and good intention to resolve the gap.

It strikes me this situation is a lose/lose which has been created by unfortunate cicumstances.

The club genuinely appeared to believe it made a better than market offer, it probabaly did. I doubt Cam will do better elsewhere on the dollars.

Cam on the other hand seems to have been saying that as a matter of principal the 30+ stance taken by the club is not right (deeply held belief after the James McDonald situation.) and that he has plenty left in the legs.

Both are right and at the same time wrong. There will always be exceptions to the rule and whilst I like the club being honest about where it is and wants to be not every 30+ player is a year to year proposition. For example Cam is less likely to break down than James. That said the club is right to say his ability to contribute in year 2 is also not a certainty as the group around him improves.

Such conflicts are capable of resolution. For example why not a deal where he is guaranteed a year playing a review at the end of the year with an option on year 2 but if its determined he is not a playing asset he gets a year as coach or mentor at an agreed rate.

For mine I dont see ill will on either side.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Robbie57

[old55 22,842]

Such conflicts are capable of resolution.

If we REALLY wanted him we'd have found a way.

The way he has left is indicative of the reasons why that mightn't be the case.

I wish Cam Bruce all the best - he has made a pragmatic decision in keeping with his history of looking after his interests - who doesn't?

It's not lose-lose IMO, hopefully it's win-win.

Cam get more years, more opportunity and with a bit of luck a flag.

We get an opportunity to get games into other players and $600K+ to spend elsewhere in the FD.

[Redleg 40,219]

He should be kicking himself the very minute he sets eyes on the article.

It's an absolute disgrace.

I think he will be kicking his manager as it smells of Ricky Nixon. Yes the article is a disgrace as, it has soured the relationship of club and player in the eyes of those who are uninformed.

Sheahan and others have stated that Cameron is leaving for a promised 2 year deal elsewhere. I have no doubt that he will be signing a 2 year contract at his new club. I also have little doubt that he will be getting more per year than he was offered for 1 year with us.

I also note in Sheahan's article that he was in the highest paid 15-20 players in the AFL over the last few years though he would never have been considered a top 50 AFL player. I am sure his last 4 year contract would have caused rumblings as we saw with Green and Davey recently, that caused problems for the club.

Cameron you were a very good player for us over 11 years and you were handsomely rewarded for it. These types of articles are unedifying and not becoming of you. That is why I am sure your manager is the one to blame. You are a Life member of the club with many friends here and I don't think it is your intention to sh-t on them or the club.

Good luck at your next club, come back to us after your AFL career is over and tell your manager to shut his mouth.

[sylvinator 96]

This stems back to letting go of Jeff White (31yo) who was still a top 5 ruck at the time! But nah, we had to go with our awesome "youth" (this is after getting rid of Jolly, whatever happened to him?) and its taken us 10 years and blind luck to stumble across anyone better! Then Yze, admittedly at the end, but still valuable role player, when there was NO-ONE better at the time!

Old MacDonald - shunted out purely becoz "too old" - nothing to do with stats, leading club in hard ball gets, tackles..

And now, They Call Him Bruce - surely not asking for a max deal. Just asking for the club to show him the same loyalty he showed them when he stuck with them thru the rollercoaster and complete bottoming out - OUR LAST REMAINING LINK TO THE 2000 GF!

As supporters, we really have to stop romanticising the Daniher era and the players involved.

Yes, we made a few final series, however we were NEVER genuine premiership contenders. The entire previous decade for me is characterised by 'so close yet so far'. We were around 5th-8th mark, but never genuine chances for glory. We had players who were very good but not quite stars (Yze, White, Robbo, Bruce). We were inconsistent and we weren't ruthless.

I want this new era to be different. I don't want to be near to the mark, I want to be going for premierships. I don't want our young up-n-comers to become solid players, I want them to become stars and regular All-Australians. I want to see Sheehan's top 50 (or any equivalent) and see 3-4 names in the top 12 players in the entire AFL!

We've had nearly 50 years of failure. It's time to stop toffing around. It's time to become focused, ruthless and obsessive.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

The club's recent track record in managing it's list speaks for itself.

We have been vindicated with Trapper and we are on the way to being vindicated with Brock.

I will back the club to make the decision on a player's value.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Pretty classy explanation given by Bails, tells it as he saw it without denigrating the player in any way. Hard to blame the club if it unfolded as he says.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/7415/newsid/104949/default.aspx

[The Great Pretender 454]

Scene from a laneway

... after my gym class this afternoon ...

[bing181 8,999]

Ha, out with the trash!

Sad to see. Though not half as sad as the John Ralph article. Talk about sloppy, emotive, sensationalist journalism. What the hell does the Miller situation have with the Bruce one - plenty of clubs have been dumping older players who can't hold down a regular place in the side. And by older, I don't mean 30+ either! And if McDonald is really "in the form of his life", where are the clubs all over him to sign? Not to mention, McDonald played 4 years past 30 - as Cam could have done if he'd wanted and been able to.