THE MONKEY

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

You questioned how valuable a loose man role was and I answered you. I never compared Rivers to Hodge as a player and which one is of better quality.

Rivers plays the loose man role very well. He plays on an opponent and has the ability to foresee when it is he should cut across and step into the hole. He plays

that role better than anyone else in or side and that is why he is so valuable. I am not comparing other parts of his game to Hodge's but thank you for sharing that.

I believe we have a solid backline at the moment and we don't need Warnock.

Frawley to take Franklin.

Garland to take Roughie. (will be fine on the lead but I worry about the strength of Roughie.

Rivers to take Peterson or Skipper and help out Frawley and Garland when required.

You gave me an example of a player who plays a different game to Rivers. Hodge is definitely not loose at all. If anything he is very accountable for his opponent making him chase Hodge. You clearly dont understand the loose man role. And Frawley and Garland are better defenders than Rivers at playing that assisting role. That is why Rivers is the cliched third man up. There is nothing overly specialised about Rivers role that is not played by the other KP defenders through a match.

He better have the other defenders ready to help him out on Skipper. Peterson is on the bench and if he was forward he will run Rivers ragged.

I agree I cant see Warnock in unless possibly Frawley is a late withdrawal with the rumoured toe injury.

[Guest hangon007]

I agree I cant see Warnock in unless possibly Frawley is a late withdrawal with the rumoured toe injury.

Lets just keep them (Hawks) guessing for as long as we can!!!

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

You gsve me an example of a player who plays a different game to Rivers. Hodge is definitely not loose at all. If anything he is very accountable for his opponent making him chase Hodge. You clearly dont understand the loose man role. And Frawley and Garland are better defenders than Rivers at playing that assisting role. That is why Rivers is the cliched third man up. There is nothing overly specialised about Rivers role that is not played by the other KP defenders through a match.

He better have the other defenders ready to help him out on Skipper. Peterson is on the bench and if he was forward he will run Rivers ragged.

I agree I cant see Warnock in unless possibly Frawley is a late withdrawal with the rumoured toe injury.

I think some fill the hole better than others. Hodge is known for floating into a pack to make a spoil or mark the ball and Rivers does it better than any other

defender we have I believe.

Grimes seems to be the one who may surpass him in years to come but I still think Rivers valuable because of his ability in that area.

I agree with you that he lacks a bit of pace and his disposal can be iffy.

[Carlos Danger 380]

No I dont think he is. But I am wondering who he realistically takes. And even more so if you bring Warnock in who do you play Rivers on?

If you put Frawley on Franklin, Warnock on Roughie, Garland on Petersen, who is slow enough for Rivers to play on?

Bennell would be a lot better suited to Peterson and I'd probably go with Garland on Lewis.

[Al`s DEMONS 0]

Mmmmm. I might be wrong and will await the correction but I seem to think that the first 4 listed on the bench have become the final bench amongst the 22?

If so, Miller is a chance.

that used to be my theory when picking supercoach. 90% accuracy

[binman 43,104]

I'm often surprised on this site with the lack of respect for Rivers from alot of posters. He is absolutely in our best 22 and will be a 200 game player for the dees. He does lack a bit of strength but that is why he doesn't play on the gorillas and can miss some targets. Some seem to suggest that his style of third man up, floating role is an easy one or somewhow less valuable than the man on man style of say Frawley. He plays his role to perfection, reads the ball as well as any one in the team and is a huge part of how the back half works as a unit - each with their own role to play and each their own strength. There was no better exmple of this than the tigers game. He was terrific and played a significant role in assiting Frawley shut down Reiwoldt. I bet if you asked Frawley he say he loves the support he gets from Rivers with the way he gets back to help

I often see a game and think gee he played well and jump on this site and he's copping a spray. I don't get it. You don't have to agree with me of course but i've got some pretty good support for my view. Our coach! Bailey clearly rates Rivers very highly and as i noted he is clearly an important part of his "structure" and game plan. Despite Warnock being in rare form and them also having Morton who can play a similar role he chooses Rivers. I reckon a coach of a senior AFL team has a pretty good idea about a players ability and he isn't playing Rivers out of some sort of misguided appreciation for him. Different strokes for different strokes i suppose.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Hodge is known for floating into a pack to make a spoil or mark the ball and Rivers does it better than any other

defender we have I believe.

Most defenders have that attribute.I not sure why you wanted to make an analogy particularly of Hodge. Hodge just does not fit Rivers game style. Frawley and Garland do it as proficiently if not better than Rivers while their skills in other departments are stronger than Rivers.

He is the "3rd man" defender for a reason. B)

His lack of pace does make it hard to work out an appropriate match up for him.

Looking at the Hawks side I dont think Warnock should come in this week.

[Grandson of a gun 276]

No changes.

Unless a mystery injury surfaces forcing a late withdrawal.

Still have no confidence playing this mob though. They have our measure and unfortunately i think they will beat us up.

Man i hope i am wrong.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I'm often surprised on this site with the lack of respect for Rivers from alot of posters. He is absolutely in our best 22 and will be a 200 game player for the dees. He does lack a bit of strength but that is why he doesn't play on the gorillas and can miss some targets. Some seem to suggest that his style of third man up, floating role is an easy one or somewhow less valuable than the man on man style of say Frawley. He plays his role to perfection, reads the ball as well as any one in the team and is a huge part of how the back half works as a unit - each with their own role to play and each their own strength. There was no better exmple of this than the tigers game. He was terrific and played a significant role in assiting Frawley shut down Reiwoldt. I bet if you asked Frawley he say he loves the support he gets from Rivers with the way he gets back to help

So who does Rivers pick up as a defender? Unless we play an extra man in defence he just cant "float" around. As other posters have said he lacks pace and you have recognised his lacks body strength to play on the gorilla. His disposal is recognised as unreliable. He does not break the lines. The things you laud in Rivers are also down by Frawley and Garland who are taking the main forwards. His role is nothing out of the ordinary yet posters gloss it with cliches. He needs to work his spot each week.

I often see a game and think gee he played well and jump on this site and he's copping a spray. I don't get it. You don't have to agree with me of course but i've got some pretty good support for my view. Our coach! Bailey clearly rates Rivers very highly and as i noted he is clearly an important part of his "structure" and game plan. Despite Warnock being in rare form and them also having Morton who can play a similar role he chooses Rivers. I reckon a coach of a senior AFL team has a pretty good idea about a players ability and he isn't playing Rivers out of some sort of misguided appreciation for him. Different strokes for different strokes i suppose.

You are making unsubstantiate assumptions about what Bailey thinks. And the reason Morton is not in the team atm is his lack of defensive accountability. Morton does not play the same role as Rivers. Warnock is playing very well in the VFL but its hardly "rare form".

[The Jacks 0]

As it has been the last few weeks... very interesting selection decisions to be made this week.

Warnock is an interesting potential inclusion due to Roughhead and Franklin. I'm really liking our backline combination of Chip, Rivers, Garland and MacDonald. Between them they can take almost any set of forwards at any team, except, maybe, for the biggest, bulkiest of forwards.

The only reason I can think of why Warnock would come in would be if they want Warnock to match up on Roughead or Franklin. I'd back a combination of Chip, Riv and Garlo, in the form they're in, to take those two, but I can see why they're thinking about Warnock.

Miller obviously had an amazing game last week for Casey, but that doesn't count for as much as a good game in the firsts. Again, our forward combination is working really well together, and no one "deserves" to get dropped. I'd say Green, Jurrah, Watts and Dunn should be absolutely no chance to get dropped. The only dangers would be Aussie and Bennell. But we need the smalls for their speed & forward pressure. Millsy should be there as a back-up option for injuries ONLY.

In midfield, I'd say only McKenzie and Jones are possible omissions. Jones was due to be dropped last week (I believe) and would probably be first to go. However, I think we need to keep both Jones and Shaun of the Dead in their as our real ball-winning, in-and-under, hunting, tackling players (especially with Beamer still out).

So that is a very, very long-winded way of saying ... no changes (unless there is an injury cloud over someone I don't know about).

[Chook 15,013]

+1. Good post.

[DeezMan 4]

I managed to finally sift through the tripe regarding Jared Rivers. Bloody heck the guy is as solid as a rock in defence and was labelled our "general" by Assistant Coach Josh Mahoney when he did a full player review couple of weeks back.

Rivers' marking is tremendous and (this is what I love) despite his MASSES of injuries over the years... continues to crash into packs to spoil the footy. Always getting crunched but ruthless

- No Grimes: off to the VFL Seniors? Hope so.

- I am beginning to warm to the idea of Miller coming in for PJ. Jamar the dominant ruckman and we have Miller who can do some ruck work around the ground. I don't fancy Miller's rucking though. Will be a tough call. If Miller does come in and proves to be shizen... then Miller's future will be well clear.

- Warnock has dominated VFL level but seriously... who does he come in for??? :/

Limited changes for mine. A possibility is:

IN: Miller

OUT: PJ

Why change a winning formula...?

[mdemonski2 403]

I managed to finally sift through the tripe regarding Jared Rivers. Bloody heck the guy is as solid as a rock in defence and was labelled our "general" by Assistant Coach Josh Mahoney when he did a full player review couple of weeks back.

Rivers' marking is tremendous and (this is what I love) despite his MASSES of injuries over the years... continues to crash into packs to spoil the footy. Always getting crunched but ruthless

- No Grimes: off to the VFL Seniors? Hope so.

- I am beginning to warm to the idea of Miller coming in for PJ. Jamar the dominant ruckman and we have Miller who can do some ruck work around the ground. I don't fancy Miller's rucking though. Will be a tough call. If Miller does come in and proves to be shizen... then Miller's future will be well clear.

- Warnock has dominated VFL level but seriously... who does he come in for??? :/

Limited changes for mine. A possibility is:

IN: Miller

OUT: PJ

Why change a winning formula...?

Agree. This is the only change I can see. If they tinker with rhe interchange rules next year ie: three plus one sub only, the second ruckman may no longer be required but rather a versatile tall that can do some ruckwork may actually become more and more commonplace...

[DeezMan 4]

Agree. This is the only change I can see. If they tinker with rhe interchange rules next year ie: three plus one sub only, the second ruckman may no longer be required but rather a versatile tall that can do some ruckwork may actually become more and more commonplace...

Dunn is our (improved) Brad Miller. Same physique and height etc, both play ruck a bit... but Dunn has youth on his side and looks as though he is just starting to fulfill the potential 99% of us knew he had. And is better than Brad Miller period

Edited August 12, 2010 by DeezMan

[mauriesy 7,299]

It's one of the reasons he has fallen out of favour at times this season.

That must be why he's played every one of the last 14 games.

[e25 5]

That must be why he's played every one of the last 14 games.

Well obviously at times this season which weren't in the last 14 games, genius.

It's not rocket surgery.

[old dee 23,797]

Agree. This is the only change I can see. If they tinker with rhe interchange rules next year ie: three plus one sub only, the second ruckman may no longer be required but rather a versatile tall that can do some ruckwork may actually become more and more commonplace...

On that Basis we should seriously consider keeping Newton, from my observations this year he is doing a good job at that exact role

at Casey. It also makes Martin more valuable.

Outside of our "Ruckman" those are the only two that give me any confidence we have someone who can fill that role.

[scarlett 247]

Well obviously at times this season which weren't in the last 14 games, genius.

It's not rocket surgery.

lol think you were after rocket science there mate.

[H_T 3,049]

..

Melbourne by 54 points.

Wow. Someone hand a pen and writing paper to Kennett on Sunday! The Hawks will be expecting another installment by Kennett if that tip comes to fruition

lol think you were after rocket science there mate.

Rocket surgery is a new form of science. Almost NASA like

[satyricon 267]

Agree 100%.

In my opinion will struggle to get a game next year unless we are wiped out with injuries. Plays the easiest position on the ground, and rarely stars. Disposal not up to AFL standard and slow. Has great courage, and reads the play well, but can't play on fast leading forwards or fast small forwards, can't play body on body with strong forwards, doesn't provide good run out of the backline, can't take kickouts, does not move forward and kick goals, can't play on the ball?

Gimes will take his spot next year, however there are probably half a dozen that could.

Obviously the Footy Dept see something that "us supporters" can't, otherwise Cheny, McNamara, Warnock would be in the team instead of Rivers, read the match reviews Rivers is a very important part of our emerging defence

Edited August 13, 2010 by satyricon

[mauriesy 7,299]

Well obviously at times this season which weren't in the last 14 games, genius.

It's not rocket surgery.

Rivers played the first game of the season, missed four matches with a rib injury, then came back to play all 14 games since.

How does that equate to "fallen out of favour at times" Mr Rocket Surgeon?

[titan_uranus 25,020]

Seven of the eight football experts in The Australian tip them.

This means nothing. Said 'experts' include Patrick Smith and Greg Denham.

[Red Sox 2]

THE MONKEY by JVM

But very few have taken any notice of the declining form of the team in brown and gold or of the emerging talent of the young Demon side with their exciting young midfielders and attacking forwards and those talented, fast moving defenders like James Frawley and Colin Garland who are ready to take on the Hawks' twin towers.

It's much like early 2007 but in reverse.

On Sunday, the sliding doors will slam shut and the Demons will finally get the Hawthorn monkey off their backs.

Melbourne by 54 points.

That is fantastic, I was going to say optimism but there is a lot more thought behind it than that. As a keen punter I am very happy with your thoughts on how the game may eventuate. Dees into a nice juicy multi sounds good!

[Dreamin' Demon 10]

I've been talking with dork supporters, watching footy shows & reading the papers & have come to one conclusion - no respect. To those dork supporters, this game is Ho Hum. We are making a big deal of this game, but to them - they could give a flying frog's fat arse. We're chicken sh*t - just wasting their time.

Other than Collingwood in their last round, we're nothing but slight distraction to them. They humour us with how good we have been in the last 2-3 rounds blah blah blah, but the smirk of their face tells us that they do not respect us.

Look at their website - we don't even gain a mention. They'll be turning up in their thousands looking at finally "getting back on track".

Good luck dees.

[ox_5 163]

No change to the lineup.