Is the optimism fading?

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

We have 4 wins and it's half way.

I expect 4 more.

8 wins is what I want to see from the dees.

That is reasonable.

Edited June 9, 2010 by stevethemanjordan

[Theo 272]

I am a true optimist and believe some of our new recruits will be future stars, however I have been dissapointed with some of our players that just don't turn up to play. The West Coast, North and Carlton games were really dissapointing. Whilst we have a potentially outstanding midfield I don't have the same optimism in our backline that other posters seem to have. Warnock, Rivers, Garland, MacDonald and Bartram are serviceable at best and will play well against mediocre opposition but have been found wanting against the more talented forwards, particularly those with bigger bodies.

Up forward Sylvia has been dissapointing except for the occasional cameo. Miller is hit or miss (more miss). Bruce has lost his mojo, PJ is a tarzan but plays like Jane and Dunn is a very good VFL player. Mind you I would like to give him a go at FF for 2-3 weeks.

To be honest the real gems this years have been Jnr Mac, Green, Grimes, Frawley and Jamar. The young kids will hopefully come on in the next few years but I really believe that we have a great opportunity over the next 2 years to recruit for specific positions. We are likely to get pick 8 or 10 this year and Jack Viney is probably going to be a demon in 2012. We need to get some bigger bodies in our key positions to help out the midfield group.

Bailey has said we we need another KP forward. I believe we also need a general down back like a Nathan Bock or a Brian Lake type. A strong marking ruckman that can play like an extra midfielder would not go astray either.

Recruitment is the key, the only key and nothing but the key.

Edited June 9, 2010 by Theo

[Sir Why You Little 37,049]

In a way it did. BUT, it also enabled the FD to look at other development alternatives without Petterd. In effect, Rhino's opinion holds in that it stalls Petterd's development, not necessarily the team's though.

Yeah, it does. You both make valid points, yours only somewhat valid, I disagree with your description of "way behind". Because there are side benefits for the FD in Petterd's absence.

Petterd showed creativety up forward that is now lacking. It also has made it harder for the mids to attack with venom. The team has stalled since round 6 through nobodies fault, thats footy.

But until Jurrah gets back in there Petterd was our link with a reasnoable forward structure with the help of Green.

The crumbers have got no crumbs to attack right now.

Edited June 9, 2010 by why you little

[loges 6,767]

I am a true optimist and believe some of our new recruits will be future stars, however I have been dissapointed with some of our players that just don't turn up to play. The West Coast, North and Carlton games were really dissapointing. Whilst we have a potentially outstanding midfield I don't have the same optimism in our backline that other posters seem to have. Warnock, Rivers, Garland, MacDonald and Bartram are serviceable at best and will play well against mediocre opposition but have been found wanting against the more talented forwards, particularly those with bigger bodies.

Up forward Sylvia has been dissapointing except for the occasional cameo. Miller is hit or miss (more miss). Bruce has lost his mojo, PJ is a tarzan but plays like Jane and Dunn is a very good VFL player. Mind you I would like to give him a go at FF for 2-3 weeks.

To be honest the real gems this years have been Jnr Mac, Green, Grimes, Frawley and Jamar. The young kids will hopefully come on in the next few years but I really believe that we have a great opportunity over the next 2 years to recruit for specific positions. We are likely to get pick 8 or 10 this year and Jack Viney is probably going to be a demon in 2012. We need to get some bigger bodies in our key positions to help out the midfield group.

Bailey has said we we need another KP forward. I believe we also need a general down back like a Nathan Bock or a Brian Lake type. A strong marking ruckman that can play like an extra midfielder would not go astray either.

Recruitment is the key, the only key and nothing but the key.

You're right bigger bodies in key positions is essential and by that I don't mean Petterd and Jurrah who are really flankers

[The Chazz 4,077]

I am a true optimist and believe some of our new recruits will be future stars, however I have been dissapointed with some of our players that just don't turn up to play. The West Coast, North and Carlton games were really dissapointing. Whilst we have a potentially outstanding midfield I don't have the same optimism in our backline that other posters seem to have. Warnock, Rivers, Garland, MacDonald and Bartram are serviceable at best and will play well against mediocre opposition but have been found wanting against the more talented forwards, particularly those with bigger bodies.

Up forward Sylvia has been dissapointing except for the occasional cameo. Miller is hit or miss (more miss). Bruce has lost his mojo, PJ is a tarzan but plays like Jane and Dunn is a very good VFL player. Mind you I would like to give him a go at FF for 2-3 weeks.

To be honest the real gems this years have been Jnr Mac, Green, Grimes, Frawley and Jamar. The young kids will hopefully come on in the next few years but I really believe that we have a great opportunity over the next 2 years to recruit for specific positions. We are likely to get pick 8 or 10 this year and Jack Viney is probably going to be a demon in 2012. We need to get some bigger bodies in our key positions to help out the midfield group.

Bailey has said we we need another KP forward. I believe we also need a general down back like a Nathan Bock or a Brian Lake type. A strong marking ruckman that can play like an extra midfielder would not go astray either.

Recruitment is the key, the only key and nothing but the key.

I'll give you optimism about our backline Theo, it's called James Frawley. He is going to be a very good full back, and when he has played another season or two, will become that General you are asking for. Will he be as good as Lake? Maybe, I'm pretty sure he'll have Bock covered (almost has now). What you need to remember is that good full backs like what Frawley is becoming are very hard to come by. Scarlett, Lake and Flecthcer are, who else is? And the other thing - teams very rarely have anymore than one standout Full back that plays that General role. We have one, just give the kid time (he's bloody near there).

I am sick of hearing people say we need a big key forward, or a big full back, especially when they quote names who would be on our wish list. Name a team in the AFL that wouldn't want Scarlett or Lake. Why would they want to leave their current team let alone come to Melbourne. Comments like this are a quick fix, may show instant results, but for the good of the Club, I'd much rather see Frawley grow in to that role like he is, and spend 8-10 years with us while our window is open, ratehr than hunt a Lake who will only be there for 5 years.

And obviously we need a solid KPF, but where are they? What's to say that Jack Watts isn't going to be that big body (continuing the comparison to Riewoldt as far as body development goes)? You never know, Jamar may be that KPF in 3 years time should Gawn make it as a dominant ruck. Anther thing to remember - we will not pick up a KPF of any solid size through the draft system, not one that we can expect to make an impact in his first season.

The big one who I think got away was Mumford. We should have worked hard to get him during trade week - ready-made ruck, could free up Jamar to go forward which would give us that big body that we need, still young enough to give us a solid 8-10 years of service. Players like that don't come along in the trade/draft period very often, I feel we missed a massive opportunity there.

[Jerry Lundergard 420]

Anyone feeling optimistic now?

We have only won 1 of our last 7, and are getting absolutely pantsed by a bottom rung side.

The wooden spoon may be battled out between us and the Eagles.

[Eth 4]

Anyone feeling optimistic now?

We have only won 1 of our last 7, and are getting absolutely pantsed by a bottom rung side.

The wooden spoon may be battled out between us and the Eagles.

Don't forget Brisbane

[Guest watts04]

woeful, having a go has nothing to do with skilled players or who we r missin

[censored] poor

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,851]

The thing that's [censored] me off is the same old same old in Adelaide. Bailey's proved to me that he can't get his side up for certain assignments and that's a worry for the future.

This is the lowest I've felt since 2008.

[praha 11,240]

The optimism was too high to begin with. We've finished last the last two years. Anyone who expected higher than 10th-11th was kidding themselves to begin with.

[Jerry Lundergard 420]

The optimism was too high to begin with. We've finished last the last two years. Anyone who expected higher than 10th-11th was kidding themselves to begin with.

Did you expect to finish last though? Because that is a real possibility.

[Theo 272]

I am a true optimist and believe some of our new recruits will be future stars, however I have been dissapointed with some of our players that just don't turn up to play. The West Coast, North and Carlton games were really dissapointing. Whilst we have a potentially outstanding midfield I don't have the same optimism in our backline that other posters seem to have. Warnock, Rivers, Garland, MacDonald and Bartram are serviceable at best and will play well against mediocre opposition but have been found wanting against the more talented forwards, particularly those with bigger bodies.

Up forward Sylvia has been dissapointing except for the occasional cameo. Miller is hit or miss (more miss). Bruce has lost his mojo, PJ is a tarzan but plays like Jane and Dunn is a very good VFL player. Mind you I would like to give him a go at FF for 2-3 weeks.

To be honest the real gems this years have been Jnr Mac, Green, Grimes, Frawley and Jamar. The young kids will hopefully come on in the next few years but I really believe that we have a great opportunity over the next 2 years to recruit for specific positions. We are likely to get pick 8 or 10 this year and Jack Viney is probably going to be a demon in 2012. We need to get some bigger bodies in our key positions to help out the midfield group.

Bailey has said we we need another KP forward. I believe we also need a general down back like a Nathan Bock or a Brian Lake type. A strong marking ruckman that can play like an extra midfielder would not go astray either.

Recruitment is the key, the only key and nothing but the key.

I stand by what I say above. I'm sick of these pansy efforts from players that earn more money than I ever did. I hate Collingwood, but I admire the way they usually give everything they've got, even with limited ability. I've had nearly 50 years of this crap and I can't take it anymore. Give me players that want to win, not pretenders like Miller, Warnock, Bartram. To be fair these guys try but have limited ability and always will have. We need a strong

contested mark up forward to relieve the pressure on Bate, Jurrah and Green.

The wrong Jetta went to Sydney when we could have had Lewis instead of Neville. Pathetic recruiting. We only took Neville because he was a good mate of Bennell and they didn't want to follow up on the pleas of Neville's Mom to draft Lewis. Neville's Mom said Lewis was the best player by far.

We lack size and strength down back. Frawley is good but the rest are vulnerable and panic with stupid turnovers or free kicks when the pressure is on. We looked small and played soft today which is very difficult for a supporter like me to bear because this has been going on for years. We looked small in the 2000 grand final and we've looked small ever ever since. We could have picked a key position player like Tayte Pears in 2006, but oh no we picked the super strong, super quick Adam Maric.

If you think this club will have a premiership in 5 years your'e dreaming.

[Deevout 492]

I am not an optimist, but I was hoping for a finish around 12th on the ladder this year. This I believe might have been to hopeful on current efforts. We need players with enough experience to get the ball into the forward 50 way more often and with greater effect, this I hope will come with more game time for the younger mid's, in this are we are being smashed, the vast majority of games the opposition has had at least 10 more scoring shots than us. Today was worse, but there is the dreaded AAMI factor.

Keep the faith and play the kids to get more game time in them, this is still the way to go. I also believe it's time for Cheney to get a run on the paddock.

We have to be patient with our young side I know, but of course this dosen't stop the dissapointment for us long time supporters "sigh"

I think i need to go watch the Brisbane game again for a cheer up, and to be reminded what the team is capable of.

Edited June 27, 2010 by Deevout

[Dee Fan 3,247]

We were out run, out muscled, out marked, out coached, out thought and in general out smarted today so where do we go from here? We don't seem to have the players at the moment and we don't seem to have found a coach that can get us up for these interstate games. It seems that we are really only a team of pretenders that can win a few games in the early part of the season and then just coast to the line for the rest of the year.

Nothing has changed at melbourne for 50 years and nothing will unless we get a complete change of attitude and a bit of heart.

BTW I don't want to hear about our kids and how young they are, that just doesn't cut it anymore, have a look at North, Essendon and even Richmond they all show much more than us and they have heaps of kids there as well.

Our performance was a disgrace today and if I had any optimism before, they ripped that out of me today.

[Adzman 2,154]

Optimism fading? We are right where we want to be!

Where is that you ask?? Putting games into kids, and letting them grow. The win loss column is not the yardstick this year. Staying off the bottom and winning 7-8 games is a nice goal, but the main aim is to get games into the kids and start to be a more competitive club. We have done this so far, and it leads to further optimistic thinking.

We are NOT a top 8 side yet, and we are surely not a wooden spooner either.

The dees will win enough to keep their bums off the bottom.

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,294]

The optimism was too high to begin with. We've finished last the last two years. Anyone who expected higher than 10th-11th was kidding themselves to begin with.

Agree. I`m still of the opinion that we will win 3 more games this year, and be exactly where I expected us to be at the start of the season.

7.5 wins will do me just nicely, 8.5 will be a bonus. Anyone thinking we`d do better than this, as you aptly put, is kidding themselves. Some people need some reality pills. (Maybe I do thinking we`ll win 3 more games??!!)

[demoniac 1,333]

My expectation for Year 3 of our comprehensive rebuild was 6 - 8 wins and an improved percentage. After 13 rounds we are on track for that.

The reality has not changed. None of our senior players are A Graders though Jamar is threatening to attain that status based on his 2010 form. We are going to have to wait and watch the core of elite young talent we have assembled develop physically and gain experience and unfortunately that cannot be fast tracked.

[Guest milpod]

Agree. I`m still of the opinion that we will win 3 more games this year, and be exactly where I expected us to be at the start of the season.

7.5 wins will do me just nicely, 8.5 will be a bonus. Anyone thinking we`d do better than this, as you aptly put, is kidding themselves. Some people need some reality pills. (Maybe I do thinking we`ll win 3 more games??!!)

It's not the wins that matter per say,but the [censored] poor effort in the non wins.

[Theo 272]

It's not the wins that matter per say,but the [censored] poor effort in the non wins.

These [censored] poor efforts mean we will probably get pick 4 or 6 in the draft. I bet they pick another midfielder. DB loves midfielders. When I spoke to him just before last years draft I suggested we get a strong bodied KP player as one of our selections. He looked me in the eye and said midfielders win games, that's the track we will be taking.

That's all very well but apart from Frawley we don't have any strong bodied key position players to help out the mids.

Warnock and Rivers are not strong or smart enough. Watts may or may not make it as a KP. We are a light bodied team that is easily pushed aside and are mentally fragile. The mids would develop quicker if they had some strong KP's to help them out.

[Humphrey B Flaubert 0]

One thing that worries me about all this optimism for the future talk is that it seems that people surrounding the club seem to think that a premiership/or sustained success will be given to us as it is our due. The world owes you nothing and success need be earned. The Scullys, Trengove, Gysberts and Mortons of this world are the means to win a premiership, not the ends and should be viewed as such. Only hard work and a group commitment to success will get us a flag.

Ten years ago, when Neale Daniher was first appointed coach, I heard the club talking about recruiting kids and winning premierships. Talking about winning multiple premierships via the draft and actually winning them are not mutually exclusive. Just ask St. Kilda.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

One thing that worries me about all this optimism for the future talk is that it seems that people surrounding the club seem to think that a premiership/or sustained success will be given to us as it is our due. The world owes you nothing and success need be earned. The Scullys, Trengove, Gysberts and Mortons of this world are the means to win a premiership, not the ends and should be viewed as such. Only hard work and a group commitment to success will get us a flag.

Ten years ago, when Neale Daniher was first appointed coach, I heard the club talking about recruiting kids and winning premierships. Talking about winning multiple premierships via the draft and actually winning them are not mutually exclusive. Just ask St. Kilda.

Spot on. The reliance on draft picks being the panacea is unhealthy and gives rise to lame excuses. I note on another thread that someone said the consolation for another poor showing in the second half of the season would be another high draft pick for next year. Very dangerous strategy.

[Dinosaur Rover 197]

Maybe i am jumping the gun just a tad, but the immense optimism i had around the time we beat the Lions and were sitting at 3-2 is starting to fade a little.

Expectations were probably raised a little due to that 3 game run, against what now appears to be weak opposition. But 1 win and 5 losses later, i find myself pondering are we going to be in a battle for the wooden spoon again, because even the Tigers are playing better than us at present, and interstate teams will alaways snag a couple at home.

Injuries mounting, players out of form, very few avenues to goal and tiring kids will be contributing factors to our fortunes in the second half of the season as our team continues to balance between development and trying to get wins.

I am still optimistic for our future and firmly beleive we will play finals next year, but am just starting to feel a little shaky about whats ahead in a tough second half of the season.

I dont think we have mounting injuries - we are middle ranking on the HUNS injuries ladder, we get back Sylvia and Junior and have players like Hughes, Lapscott, Blease one week away from playing and options in Gysberts, Bennell, Wona and Cheney as options. I am worried too - I was very disappointed with the performance yesterday but we have gone from poor (Hawthorn) to good (Collingwood) in the past so perhaps this is a feature of a developing side. Our best games but one (Port) have been played at home.

[Grandson of a gun 276]

My expectation for Year 3 of our comprehensive rebuild was 6 - 8 wins and an improved percentage. After 13 rounds we are on track for that.

The reality has not changed. None of our senior players are A Graders though Jamar is threatening to attain that status based on his 2010 form. We are going to have to wait and watch the core of elite young talent we have assembled develop physically and gain experience and unfortunately that cannot be fast tracked.

A good logical post. Nice to see some sense here.

It's not the wins that matter per say,but the [censored] poor effort in the non wins.

Also another good logical post. Melbourne have been 50-50 with this. Some good efforts in losses but also some poor ones.

One thing that worries me about all this optimism for the future talk is that it seems that people surrounding the club seem to think that a premiership/or sustained success will be given to us as it is our due. The world owes you nothing and success need be earned. The Scullys, Trengove, Gysberts and Mortons of this world are the means to win a premiership, not the ends and should be viewed as such. Only hard work and a group commitment to success will get us a flag.

Ten years ago, when Neale Daniher was first appointed coach, I heard the club talking about recruiting kids and winning premierships. Talking about winning multiple premierships via the draft and actually winning them are not mutually exclusive. Just ask St. Kilda.

Spot on. And that is where i think 1 and 2 this year were great also- their work ethic is fantastic and they will lead by example. I believe that the culture Jimmy is instilling is one of hard work and sacrifice for success and i have faith in that.