where is the forward line?

[heartbeatstrue 57]

The personnel available on any given game day may influence the specific arrangement of the structure, but a structure must still exist.

I wasn't listening to the commentary during the game but this should have been obvious to anyone watching and I do not understand how it can be left to go for an entire game, or as the poster of this thread has implied, week after week. (at least the last 3)

Agree with your first comment. Petterd & Green were providing the marking focus up forward. Petterd is badly missed, structure-wise. It hasn't been "week after week", it was a specific problem this week. But even if we had plonked Plugger at FF, we still weren't going to get the ball to him on a lead on Saturday because there was simply very little fluidity out of the centre.

They experimented with ball movement, not empty goal squares.

Geelong's forward stocks haven't always been flash, they've relied on Mooney and someone like Ottens dropping back, plus smaller players like Ablett, Varcoe, Stokes & Stevie Johnson to kick a winning score. Plus recently Hawkins (who can magically snag goals in GFs that appear to shave the post). I remember the Cats struggling up forward in 2006 and I thought they weren't going anywhere without a more reliable target than Mooney.

Edited May 16, 2010 by heartbeatstrue

[heartbeatstrue 57]

I am so far in the dark with respect to future prospects it isn't funny but I still get a sense that we haven't played the percentages with respect to up forward over the years. Hopefully with our move to OP we may have a little more confidence in our future ability to develop players of all sorts and the club may go for some likely kids with a good frame and see if we can "bag one" and not be affraid to "get it wrong". In any case it was more the philosophy of it that worried me. As you say, JPod at the cattery. I realise the cats are at a different stage and JPod is a mature age player but even so, they aren't relying on just forward numbers and that is even with Mooney and Hawkins in the side as tall forwards along with their other accomplished forwards. Geelong are one of (if not the) best running side for forward numbers under pressure and yet they go for another tall forward and a risk I might add if it doesn't come off.

On Robbo, I thought we made the right call. I didn't think Bradshaw was such a contradictory suggestion at the time either as he would have straightened us up significantly. This point was missed on many simply due to him being in the twilight of his career which was a seperate issue.

Appreciate your food for thought. Definitely we need straightening up, up forward. Who would you propose (from available stocks) against Port?

[demonsflag555657 3]

I atended the presidents lunch yesterday and i spoke to david neitz after the game and jokingly said to him that we could have done with you out on the ground today.

He then said to me with the way that it came into the forward line today that he would not have got a goal today.

[DemonSG 1]

Appreciate your food for thought. Definitely we need straightening up, up forward. Who would you propose (from available stocks) against Port?

Miller, Juice or be brave and play Garland there, he was recruited as a forward. I wonder if Bailey knows that. Who ever it is they should be instructed to play as forwards and stay in that part of the ground when the side is attacking.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Not entirely sure what you point is. Are you suggesting that the midfield is/was a bigger problem than the forward line?

Do you agree or disagree that it makes life hard for the midfield when there is a lack of forward structure or worse, no one in the fifty?

Think about. If you are losing the midfield contests then your forward line is fighting for crumbs. What also makes it hard when you midfield make poor disposal options inside 50?

Other posters have also correctly pointed out we have a number of our better forward options at present out injured, coming back from injury, still raw, useless (PJ) or just playing like blockheads (eg Sylvia)

[demon3165 1,915]

Dean Bailey an also ran Essendon defender organising our forward line????. His forward line tactics are a failure.

This has been coming all season and now the opposition are on to it. No player forward of the middle when defending, ball rebounds and f... me no forwards in our attacking half. Goes on all game, week after week and no change of game plan.

Bailey needs to seek some advice on how to implement alternative attacking tactic's before he destroys the forward line players confidence altogether.

Johnson has been tried many times (before Baileys time at the club) at full forward as a resting ruckman and failed, how long do we have to watch that experiment.

I love the way we are trying to play but christ, if there is no one in the forward line when the ball comes in...I feel very sorry for our forwards including Jack Watts and whoever else is meant to score goals.

Dean, ask for help or engage some former forward line players, they will tell you someone has to be in the bloody forward line to kick goals if we are to win.

Was pleased with Jack's performace today and he will be a player no doubt, just needs some time.

Goes to show what you know about football, if you cannot see their game plan then know wonder we have some of the dumbest supporters going around, the biggest problem we had was the disposals into the forward line and around the ground, one could see this with one eyed shut.

[Tricky 337]

Think about. If you are losing the midfield contests then your forward line is fighting for crumbs. What also makes it hard when you midfield make poor disposal options inside 50?

Other posters have also correctly pointed out we have a number of our better forward options at present out injured, coming back from injury, still raw, useless (PJ) or just playing like blockheads (eg Sylvia)

Yes the midfield was down. How does that change the simple fact that the forward 50 was completely empty, on so many occasions during our attempts to attack?

Missing players does not excuse this.

[Tricky 337]

Goes to show what you know about football, if you cannot see their game plan then know wonder we have some of the dumbest supporters going around, the biggest problem we had was the disposals into the forward line and around the ground, one could see this with one eyed shut.

How is an empty forward 50 part of the game plan? Perhaps you can enlighten us as to how an efficient entry to the 50 is possible under this scenario?

[DemonSG 1]

R

Goes to show what you know about football, if you cannot see their game plan then know wonder we have some of the dumbest supporters going around, the biggest problem we had was the disposals into the forward line and around the ground, one could see this with one eyed shut.

Mate, I reckon you had both eyes closed, or you may be blind. Read Whispering Jacks article today, reinforces what I am saying, the bloody ball can come in a hundred times, but if no one is home what is the point. Forwards are just that, not bloody ruck rovers searching for kicks up the ground or are they being told to follow their man come what may and bugger the consquences. Bailey and his men need to urgently address this or I fear more of the same is coming as other sides are on to our major weakness.

By the way, please explain to me yesterdays game plan, forward line included and not using injury excuses as all sides have them.

[Go Dees Attack 0]

We had 6 marks inside 50 to 16 marks inside 50. Anyone standing in the goal square would have done. As it was said earlier the ball was not delivered well either. Very frustrating to watch. No one inside 50 was also a problem against collingwood in round 2 from memory. I hope they address this by next week.

Go Dees Attack

[trudders 0]

Dean Bailey is a good coach, im sure you'll begin to appreciate the work he's been putting into this team after you settle down over the WCE loss.

The forward line was missing, but its because were employing a tactic called the crunch where the forward line moves up the ground and into the midfield to slow play down and keep it congested, we only do it when were under the pump.

once our midfield starts to become more dominant and getting centre clearances more easily then we will get a forward line structure and start playing like we did against brisbane, richmond, adelaide and maybe even collingwood.

but our midfield struggled against WCE, thus there were no forwards coming out to lead.

[jayceebee31 666]

It has been pointed out the forward-line players we were missing today.

For your information, Josh Mahoney is our forward line coach (played 97 matches for Port Adelaide, Bulldogs and Collingwood, including the Port Adelaide premiership side of 2004).

It is not DB's fault that today's team played with no intensity for 4 qtrs. You could have plonked Plugger at full forward and the way our midfield was beaten today, he would have kicked zip. This is what happens to young inexperienced sides. Consistency takes time and huge effort from the coaches. DB and his coaching team are doing an amazing job, and we all just have to accept that experience and confidence and big bodies all take many weeks to develop. Along the way, there will be losses like today.

Geelong in 2006 was experimenting with young skilful players and quick movement by hand and foot. They lost 7 out of 8 games and were accused of chipping the ball around too much, instead of long direct kicks to goal. Geelong finished tenth, missed the finals and there were many calls for Mark Thompson's head to roll. The following year it all clicked, and they won the flag. The rest is history.

DB is an excellent teaching coach for our young group, imo. He'll learn how to motivate and fire them up. I've no doubt he's highly respected by the players. He's probably learned something valuable from today too, and next time he sees the warning signs of a lacklustre performance coming on, he'll hopefully quickly fix whatever it is that gets into players heads and results in the whole team performing without intensity or confidence.

I think at the end of this year a change in some aspects of our coaching panel is needed.

[Akum 2,660]

Think about. If you are losing the midfield contests then your forward line is fighting for crumbs. What also makes it hard when you midfield make poor disposal options inside 50?

Other posters have also correctly pointed out we have a number of our better forward options at present out injured, coming back from injury, still raw, useless (PJ) or just playing like blockheads (eg Sylvia)

RR, I'm concerned at how far the performance of some of our midfielders falls away when Jamar is not able to dominate the stoppages. Let alone play well in a team that's getting beaten.

We also seem to get strangled so easily by teams (even ordinary teams) that employ a zone. If we can't beat a zone (quick ball movement with accurate disposal & sensible risk-taking??), we're not going to get very far.

I thought an obvious move yesterday would have been Grimes on the ball. He is one who does seem to maintain his performance (despite some wayward disposals) when the team's struggling, and we needed someone to find it in the middle rather than the defensive 50. Somebody wrote that we don't have a "Plan B" - Grimes on the ball is a pretty good "Plan B", but we didn't pull the trigger. Perhaps sometimes the coaches need to take sensible risks too.

IMO the midfield is where it all starts. And IMO it's not the young mids, or Junior, who are the problem.

[DemonSG 1]

Dean Bailey is a good coach, im sure you'll begin to appreciate the work he's been putting into this team after you settle down over the WCE loss.

The forward line was missing, but its because were employing a tactic called the crunch where the forward line moves up the ground and into the midfield to slow play down and keep it congested, we only do it when were under the pump.

once our midfield starts to become more dominant and getting centre clearances more easily then we will get a forward line structure and start playing like we did against brisbane, richmond, adelaide and maybe even collingwood.

but our midfield struggled against WCE, thus there were no forwards coming out to lead.

Our mid field struggles have nothing to do with a non existant forward line ie players in the forward fifty. Mids are mids and forwards are forwards end of story.

[1858 219]

Appreciate your food for thought. Definitely we need straightening up, up forward. Who would you propose (from available stocks) against Port?

IMO Miller is the best option of the forwards we have tried so far (excluding the injured players of course). He was a shambles against Hawthorn when he came down the ground. Dropped marks on the run, put others under pressure and generally was a liability away from goal. Later when he was camped closer to the goal square he managed a couple of goals and had more of a purpose - he was quite simply misused but I give the coaching staff the benefit of the doubt as it was round 1 and nobody could have predicted he would be that incompetent down the ground. The key is to keep Miller and Bate out of each others area as they are too slow to interact with each other and create a speed vacuum.

The main criticisms I see (on sites) to playing Miller are based both on his game against Hawthorn and the future he has with the club which seems not too long. In any case he is on our pay roll and until some of the other forwards return I think we have nothing to lose in playing him and a little to gain if we use him right. Newton/PJ/Martin are no good up forward although Martin hardly ever gets a chance to consolidate a position anyway. Obviously Watts is an option and I have faith in the club to make the right calls on him based on his development but I don't think we should put him in the KP bracket too soon.

[demon3165 1,915]

R

Mate, I reckon you had both eyes closed, or you may be blind. Read Whispering Jacks article today, reinforces what I am saying, the bloody ball can come in a hundred times, but if no one is home what is the point. Forwards are just that, not bloody ruck rovers searching for kicks up the ground or are they being told to follow their man come what may and bugger the consquences. Bailey and his men need to urgently address this or I fear more of the same is coming as other sides are on to our major weakness.

By the way, please explain to me yesterdays game plan, forward line included and not using injury excuses as all sides have them.

So what you are saying is that you did not notice how the forward line played against the Pies, Brisbane, Richmond in the last part of the first, and third quarter, third quarter third of the Roos game and the last half of the Crows game, then how about you open your eyes, but with the disposals being as bad as the were there was no fluid motion in what they were trying to do, the one thing that we will struggle with this year is our forward line until the front six become as confident as the back six then we will have ups and downs throughout the year, when all groups be as one then this is what will happen for the rest of the year.

Anyone who thinks that this club will have a breakout year are just delusional, let us just enjoy the progress of the team with all its up and downs. In time it will come.

[Rogue 585]

So what you are saying is that you did not notice how the forward line played against the Pies, Brisbane, Richmond in the last part of the first, and third quarter, third quarter third of the Roos game and the last half of the Crows game, then how about you open your eyes, but with the disposals being as bad as the were there was no fluid motion in what they were trying to do, the one thing that we will struggle with this year is our forward line until the front six become as confident as the back six then we will have ups and downs throughout the year, when all groups be as one then this is what will happen for the rest of the year.

Even in the games we've played well, I think there's been an issue with our forward structure. We set up much further forward than most teams, and our players often get sucked right up the ground. This causes the handball-mad turnovers that encourage some supporters to yell 'just kick it', failing to realise the sideways disposals have been caused because there's no one forward of the ball carrier to 'just kick it' to.

Anyone who thinks that this club will have a breakout year are just delusional

It certainly won't be - and wasn't ever going to be - this year.

[Jaded No More 57,758]

Where is our forward line? Nursing broken shoulders and bung knees, is where.

There is also some dude running around, he's kinda useless if you ask me, but they say he might be worth something in the future. Jack something or other.

The forward line is the last piece of the puzzle yet to be completed, but I think the raw elements are there.

You've got smalls in Jetta, Bennell, Maric and Aussie to choose from, medium sized forwards like Petterd and guys like Sylvia and Tapscott who could rotate through, and talls in Bate, Morton, Watts, Jurrah (who is in his own category), Martin and in the future maybe Fitzpatrick and Gawn. Green can also comfortably play another 4 years up there.

But this part of the ground will take the longest to develop and is probably the one area we need to wait on before we can start thinking about premierships.

[DemonSG 1]

Even in the games we've played well, I think there's been an issue with our forward structure. We set up much further forward than most teams, and our players often get sucked right up the ground. This causes the handball-mad turnovers that encourage some supporters to yell 'just kick it', failing to realise the sideways disposals have been caused because there's no one forward of the ball carrier to 'just kick it' to.

It certainly won't be - and wasn't ever going to be - this year.

breakout year who said that...I'm talking forward setups pure and simple and Bailey and co have so far got it wrong, thats the point of the thread.

[QueenC 74]

The only good thing about Bailey's contract extension is that it expires at the same time as Paul Roos.

You know Roos finishes at the end of this season right?

Look Jaded is right, the forward lines bones are there, they're just not out there yet.

Both the midfield and forward line performances yesterday were unacceptable. It is hard to any forward, no matter who he is, to kick goals when the ball isn't being won nor delivered with any great skill or consistency, but it is then the responsibility of said forward to then work harder for, and try to make the most of what they do get, and I didn't see much that either unfortunately.

It will come together eventually, but for now we need to work harder, both on the field and in the box, with what we have got.

[H_T 2,941]

It will come together eventually, but for now we need to work harder, both on the field and in the box, with what we have got.

Indeed. The club also needs to be "seething" at Saturday's performance and result. To understand that it was unacceptable for it's members & supporters, and to strive to correct the very reasons that led to this result.

No matter how young or inexperienced the group is.

To have played at home in front of the Red & the Blue (28K), to be level at half time, to have kicked just one goal in the second half against an equally young side in West Coast, should be considered unacceptable by a team/club that wants to go places. They should learn from this.

[Guest The Boss]

You know Roos finishes at the end of this season right?

Source

[QueenC 74]

Source

Sorry, but I can absolutely guarantee you that Roos will step aside at the end of this year.

John Longmire will be taking over for next season.

Paul Roos to hand over Sydney Swans helm to John Longmire

(among plenty of others)

[Guest The Boss]

I stand corrected.

Still doesn't change my opinion on Bailey. In my opinion, he was a rubbish player and an awful coach.

[loges 6,010]

Where is our forward line? Nursing broken shoulders and bung knees, is where.

There is also some dude running around, he's kinda useless if you ask me, but they say he might be worth something in the future. Jack something or other.

The forward line is the last piece of the puzzle yet to be completed, but I think the raw elements are there.

You've got smalls in Jetta, Bennell, Maric and Aussie to choose from, medium sized forwards like Petterd and guys like Sylvia and Tapscott who could rotate through, and talls in Bate, Morton, Watts, Jurrah (who is in his own category), Martin and in the future maybe Fitzpatrick and Gawn. Green can also comfortably play another 4 years up there.

But this part of the ground will take the longest to develop and is probably the one area we need to wait on before we can start thinking about premierships.

Not disagreeing with what you're saying but can someone point out who is going to be the big focal David Neitz type key position forward in this group