Some home truths

[rpfc 28,410]

3 years of mediocre performance is a long time in AFL.

He deserves the chance to get a full pre season in and if he does then the blow torch will and should be on him to perform.

Heaven help him if next year is like this year.

I don't believe 2008 was 'mediocre' but I do agree that next year is crucial to Bailey, McLean, and the club.

Get him started for next year, don't run him into the ground and give him a rest for the remainder of the year.

The club should not select him and force his preparation for next year.

All players want to do is play, but I don't think Brock playing now is going to help him in 2010.

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

3 years of mediocre performance is a long time in AFL.

He deserves the chance to get a full pre season in and if he does then the blow torch will and should be on him to perform.

Heaven help him if next year is like this year.

Again, no argument here.

[Jaded No More 68,915]

3 years of mediocre performance is a long time in AFL.

He deserves the chance to get a full pre season in and if he does then the blow torch will and should be on him to perform.

Heaven help him if next year is like this year.

At the risk of starting this argument again, Brock came second in the B&F last year. How can that be labeled a "mediocre performance"?

He has had a poor season by his standards, but this is the first truly mediocre season that he has had, and for a 23 year old that's not too bad. That he is the first one getting tagged at the bounce is an issue. We need to get some quality around him ASAP, but that goes without saying. Our midfield sucks.

[Melb16 493]

A lot of the stuff in this thread is laughable. Here we have 2 players who have basically been our best players in the previous 2 wins. They then have a quieter game against the proven best side in the comp, and now people are calling for them to be gutted and hung in the town square.

I enjoy the 'they don't play well against good sides' argument. Last year in round 3 against Geelong Bruce beat Steve Johnson (and again the next time we played them), who can apparently play a bit, and Brock dominated.

Short memories, overreation, and a general non-understanding of football are becoming all too common with Melbourne supporters. Please don't let us become like Richmond supporters, we have some intelligence.

Brock is battling through, his body isn't right. Bruce is playing consistently despite being played out of position and without a lot of help.

Do you kow why some good players don't play well against Geelong? Because they are a dominant side!!! Brent Harvey is one player who springs to mind who has shocker after shocker against them.

For those of you who struggle to see why players don't get 30 touches and kick 2 goals every week, let's try look at an example.

Daniel Kerr could have won 2 brownlow medals had he have not got suspended and missed some games through injury. He was considered a top 10 player in the comp by some. Since WC have become rubbish and he has lost the good players around him, how close is he to a top 10 player in the comp? He is still a good player, and cops a heavier tag every week then our players, but he is nowhere near the player he was. Put Judd and cousins back in there and i bet he would start dominating again.

I know it isn't 'exactly' the same as our situation, which I know some if you will try and prove, but I hope it might slightly open some of your eyes in relation to some of our better players.

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

Brock is battling through, his body isn't right. Bruce is playing consistently despite being played out of position and without a lot of help.

As for Brock, this being the case, then rest him, it is crazy to risk hurting him. Get him the hell right for next year!

As for Bruce, being played out of position??

What is his position? He is a versatile player, a rare breed that can play forward, mid or back and has shown this many times through his career. To say he is being played out of position while questioning everyone else's intelligence is not very bright.

Edited July 20, 2009 by Rod Grinter Riot Squad

[Melb16 493]

As for Brock, this being the case, then rest him, it is crazy to risk hurting him. Get him the hell right for next year!

As for Bruce, being played out of position??

What is his position? He is a versatile player, a rare breed that can play forward, mid or back and has shown this many times through his career. To say he is being played out of position while questioning everyone else's intelligence is not very bright.

I wouldn't think that if he could do more damage to himself that the match committtee would still be playing him! Do some people actually think that? Maybe it is better that he is out there gaining match fitness!

I think you will find that AFL players love playing footy. Brock bleeds for us, is a leader, and would simply want to be out there every week. He wouldn't ever submit to the 'oh I'm not 100%, it's all a bit hard I will just sit out for the rest of the year' attitude.

Bruce is an attacking midfielder/forward, he certainly can play back as well, but his best position within the team is setting up/finishing attacking plays, rather then being invovled in the chain of handballs to get it out of defense.

[beelzebub 23,364]

There are many home truths quite unpalatable for the most of supporters. By its very nature supporting a team often lulls the individual into a cozy compact with the players. They turn up and play their best and you/we/I turn up and watch them all the whiles often forgiving them their deficiencies and/or medioctities as they, after all wear that jumper we all love so therefore they are stars.

More often than not the only stars are the ones distracting the myopic supporter from some not so pleasant realities. we have a so/so midfield. When pressured by quality teams they are found teriibly wanting and when playing similalry equiped bottom teams some glistening form is suddenly found. Reality is we wont get very far with the current mixture or more precisely all of the current group as an entirity. Some need to go and some need to really lift. In liftign its not always a swipe at this or that player simply an observation that other teams are playing better and smarter footy and to be competitive so must we and if the personnel to do this are those presently encumbered in red and blue then quite simply its they who have to rise to the challenge. Some might be able to , some just arent that good. It's a hrsh realisation for some that their 'pet's simply arent as good as the next. But..but, they bleed !! They play their hearts out etc etc.. That may be so but if that isnt doing the job then logically you have to get players who whether playing hearts out , bleeding or just idling can.

We have some talent, some is raw some undefined , some starting to form and some already on view. We need more.

How long do you persist with players who through circumstances of varying natures seem to perennially spend half the year either out injured or carrying it to the point where their output is seriously compromised. Im tired of hearing " but on their day they are sublime ". Yes perhaps so.. But a day does not a season make !!

If players are constrained by niggles let them sit out and get it right, if they cant, move them on..its simple.. if players have endeavours but lack smarts and continue to put their team-mates under the pump through poor disposal and/or deilvery etc.. get rid of them if they cant learn (wont ). If players are too one sided in ability then get some who are better combinations of the skillsets required..why persist with inadequacy ?

Some players just arent as good as the hype that engulfs them. For mine if a player isnt showing real ability by the 3rd season.. move them on as the returns for such persistence just arent enough for the efforts and monies spent on them. Similar input into another recruit might provide a better dividend.

Unless you are staring the window then as older players , still with some miles and games left in them pass their peak , trade them out and get fresh kidsw. Keep the wheel rolling, otherwise it just sqeaks away until it stalls.

Now to....

Time for some home truths about some real battlers.

Russell Robertson - is well and truly finished. There was talk on the commentary if he should get another contract next year. I can only assume they were kidding. Spends more time lying on the ground with fake injuries than running around getting a kick.

Probably ought to finish up this season. Wil totally depend on the nature of this years draftess and teh expectations of teh Footy dept as to readiness of other forwards. he migh tjust scrape a part time role next year. past prime, decent servant of teh club , ought to know when its time.

Cameron Bruce - a laughable effort today in his 200th. Classic dinky hand passes putting team mates under pressure, constant fumbles, running from contests. It was all there on display today. Who was the genius that gave him a 3 year deal? Untradeble as no other team will touch him.

Classic one sided player.. good at many things except getting the ball on in a usuable manner..this to me really negates anything else he does , ought to have been traded years ago but will probably stay til current contract expires. Kinda stuck with him.

Brock McLean - his career is going backwards at a rapid rate. Can not handle a tag. Time for the coaching staff to give him an ultimatum. Shape up or ship out. Completely out of the running for next skipper, thats for sure.

has perfected mediocre to good games without nailing brilliance. Seems to ebb and flow with the tide. Not a top notch middy but handy in a midfiled if there were such a decent player or two. Not questioning endeavour, just output and effect.Needs to be injury free ...otherwise his value is seriously compromised

James McDonald - has given plenty to the MFC over the years, and has put his body on the line time and time again. But the game has passed him well and truly. I suspect he knows this, and will hang up the boots at years end.

A steady and occasionally gifted trier who is coming to the end of the tracks..thanks Junior.

Probably a little unfair to single these four as there are others for whom the axe will hover.

[Melb16 493]

C.Ling played on a bloke named Hodge yesterday. Hodge, who apparently won a Norm Smith last year, had 11 posessions and no impact on the game.

Like Brock, I think Hodge's career is now over after being beaten by an obviously terrible player in Ling. Suspect against a hard tag, not 100% fit, I think the Hawks will delist him at the end of the year. Maybe give him the next 5 weeks to prove himself....

[Its Miller time 6]

Totally Agree. Hodge is Finished.

[DangerousDemon 3]

Time for some home truths about some real battlers.

Russell Robertson - is well and truly finished. There was talk on the commentary if he should get another contract next year. I can only assume they were kidding. Spends more time lying on the ground with fake injuries than running around getting a kick.

Cameron Bruce - a laughable effort today in his 200th. Classic dinky hand passes putting team mates under pressure, constant fumbles, running from contests. It was all there on display today. Who was the genius that gave him a 3 year deal? Untradeble as no other team will touch him.

Brock McLean - his career is going backwards at a rapid rate. Can not handle a tag. Time for the coaching staff to give him an ultimatum. Shape up or ship out. Completely out of the running for next skipper, thats for sure.

James McDonald - has given plenty to the MFC over the years, and has put his body on the line time and time again. But the game has passed him well and truly. I suspect he knows this, and will hang up the boots at years end.

who are you to tell people what they can and cant do. I do believe you are just returning to this site from a long exile by virtue of the moderators for this very reason.

Pull your head in

[beelzebub 23,364]

who are you to tell people what they can and cant do. I do believe you are just returning to this site from a long exile by virtue of the moderators for this very reason.

Pull your head in

Whoa there partner !! he's just laying down his opinion. Not too far off the reality of things id suggest.

Mods have their job..and do it well. as YM will attest..lol

No need for for outsider aspersions.

His opinion is as valid as most.. As he started the thread and warned you, you might not like it..you obviously dont..

Tell ya what...why not argue how he's wrong instead of silly snide remarks.. Im interested

Edited July 26, 2009 by belzebub59

[Yze_Magic 3]

who are you to tell people what they can and cant do. I do believe you are just returning to this site from a long exile by virtue of the moderators for this very reason.

Pull your head in

Yet I was spot on.

Truth hurts I guess.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Yet I was spot on.

Truth hurts I guess.

How would you know?

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,243]

I don't understand why so many posters on this site refer to McLean as Brock. Bruce, MacDonald et all are all referred to by their surnames. Others by their nicknames, e.g. Robbo. It seems to be trend with players with dorky Christian names. The classic case of this was Gehrig, who was often referred to as Fraser.

Edited July 26, 2009 by bingers

[H_T 3,044]

I don't understand why so many posters on this site refer to McLean as Brock. Bruce, MacDonald et all are all referred to by their surnames. Others by their surnames, e.g. Robbo. It seems to be trend with players with dorky Christian names. The classic case of this was Gehrig, who was often referred to as Fraser.

Who really gives a 'flying continental' whether posters refer to them by their Christian name or Surname?

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,243]

Who really gives a 'flying continental' whether posters refer to them by their Christian name or Surname?

__________________________________________________________

Chillax HT!!

BTW, what's a 'flying continental'?

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

BTW, what's a 'flying continental'?

Something you might give your missus. (or maybe someone elses)

But he's right. Who cares if people call one guy Brock or Stef and another Robbo or Greeney? As long as you get the names right it shouldn't matter.

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

who are you to tell people what they can and cant do. I do believe you are just returning to this site from a long exile by virtue of the moderators for this very reason.

Pull your head in

Pull your own Head in Mr.

Personally i want to see The Melbourne Football Club win the "Holy Grail" a few times before i leave the planet.

Been supporting them for just on 40 years so far, & in that time as you know...We have won Nothing...(Night Premierships are cool but not in the same Breath)

For too long this club & a lot of its supporters has accepted Mediocraty from "perceived" champions. If we are going to take the next step & Be Feared as we have been in the past-THE BAR MUST BE RAISED, throughout the entire club.

The points Y.M. raises are Fair enough. A year ago this club was $8 mill+ in debt sitting on the bottom of the ladder paying out 100% of the salary cap to a bunch of Players who were good (not great) who had played a year or two too long.

Fortunately the clean out & restructure is now well under way, but we should never accept those conditions again, otherwise we will be walked & spat on with no respect.

We gotta Fight for the next decade with teeth bared. Tough Decisions have to be made ongoing.

2 new teams are coming. The League wants them to succeed at whatever cost.

So we gotta be better than them.........Y.M. just calls it as he sees it. Says things a lot of us don't have the Guts to.

Lot of our older Players have to take a good hard look at themselves right now. "How Good are they? Can they improve?"

Improve they must......

[Vipercrunch 2,827]

I think there are limited spots on our list for the older players. These spots must go to the players that are physically up to it, whose forms warrants it (in the best 30 players in the club), but most importantly who provide the best leadership, attitude and work ethic.

For those reason, I feel there is a very important place on our list into next year for MacDonald, Brock and Bruce. Whelan and Green also fall into that "good example to young players" catorgory.

I also would have a very hard time finding a position for Robbo, who yes has been good (a matchwinner on occassions), but has not shown the sort of example I want our young players to develop.

Brock needs to get fit. There have been talk that he hasn't done speed training for along time due to injury. Until he gets his speed up and his body right, he should be rested. List manage him.

MacDonald is doing well enough to stay on the list next year, but probably not as Captain. If all goes well, and the younger players around him develop, he won't always be Top 22.

Bruce is only on this list because it is YM's list. He is past his best, but I think has at least one more season in the Best 22.

Robbo should get one or two more games as a decent send off, but there is no place for some of what he offers (or fails to offer).

[Akum 2,660]

This may need a new thread, but yesterday's game really highlighted our terrible field kicking, especially into the 50. We will never be a top team unless this dramatically improves, either with new players or existing players

When we move up the ladder, how many of the experienced players with poor disposal skills (that haven't improved over 2 or 3 seasons) can we afford to carry in any given game? Two? Three?

Next year we should have an influx of young players with potentially great disposal skills including Scully, Blease, Strauss & Trengove. With the influx of say 3 out of this 4 next year, how are we to prune our current crop of serial offenders down to the number we can afford to carry?

[jackie_moon 0]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but i do feel, generally, posters on this site are a bit quick to write off the older blokes on our list and their contributions to the team.

Robbo is coming back from a major injury in the twilight of his career. Scarlett absolutely towelled him up the other week. He usually goes alright against him but nobody could've stopped him that day. While he continues to keep the lakes and the scarletts of the competition off our developing forwards i would keep him in the side. Look at the ball that gets delivered into the fifty. going for a fly is about the only chance he has. No one is exactly putting it on his [censored]. Scarlett saw that he would have little work to do and comfortably chopped us apart on the rebound knowing we wouldnt hurt him if he turned it over. Robbo has never offered great defensive pressure, but what backman is gonna [censored] themselves coming up against us, especially with our atrocius delivery inside 50. If robbo is getting good ball and kicking goals, see how often scarlett goes for runs up the wing then. Confidence is a major factor in footy, and no team comes into a game with us shaking their boots.

Bruce, green and mcdonald are real tryers. They keep having a go and in a decent well drilled team would be more than handy players. We saw this in 05 when bruce was unstoppable and junior lead the afl in tackles. Sure they are older and in the twilight of their careers but to say they offer nothing going forward is ludicrous. Have a look at our team atm. It's a bunch of young kids. The whole team is often under constant pressure. of course we'll be turning over the footy consistantly. I'm sick of people saying that they have been [censored] for 3 years. the whole team has. we're rebuilding and yes these boys are not gonna be around by the time the melbourne footy club is back challenging in september.

I would offer these boys another year.

It's the bells, millers, newtons, johnsons, dunns, bartrams that are the ones we should be looking to ship out. They have been overtaken by our youngsters and have shown little signs of improving. I do have a little patience when it comes to miller and newton though as the mfc forward line is not currently a great place to ply your trade. These are the list cloggers that offer us little going forward.

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

For those reason, I feel there is a very important place on our list into next year for MacDonald, Brock and Bruce. Whelan and Green also fall into that "good example to young players" catorgory.

We will be delisiting at least 5 probably 6 players, even more. If we keep these older guys, then who goes.

For mine of those you listed, Junior, Robbo and the wrecker would go. I'd try and get a third round pick for Bruce.

[rpfc 28,410]

We will be delisiting at least 5 probably 6 players, even more. If we keep these older guys, then who goes.

For mine of those you listed, Junior, Robbo and the wrecker would go. I'd try and get a third round pick for Bruce.

Agree with you up till the Bruce trade.

Green and Bruce should be the only players older than 26 on our list next year. Green brings a positive influence (on and off the field) to a group that will challenge after he's gone, and Bruce will be able to show how to get the best out of yourself and run 20km's a game to whoever we pick up for our midfield and the kids already there.

Look, I wanted to trade Bruce two years ago, and Green last year, but they're value has evaporated and it would be more beneficial to get them to mould our future.

[Theo 272]

We will be delisiting at least 5 probably 6 players, even more. If we keep these older guys, then who goes.

For mine of those you listed, Junior, Robbo and the wrecker would go. I'd try and get a third round pick for Bruce.

Agreed. We will probably want at a minimum of 4 selections in the National draft plus the option of a PSD pick. The MFC must make a decision on Spencer and Valenti. They have 3 choices, either delist both, put them on the main list at the expense of an existing player or try and re-rookie them. Personally I don't think Spencer will ever make the grade as his disposal is poor and does not look like a natural footballer.

So, for those that have the romantic notion of hanging on to senior players just because they can help the youngsters, think again.

Give the youngsters some credit. If they are coached well and have some experienced players such as Davey, Rivers, Maloney, Green, McLean and I dare say even Bruce around them, they will be fine. Particulary, if they can see some exciting new players coming into the club.

Remember, earlier this year it was reported that some of the younger players complained that some of the senior guys were not putting-in. Let them make their own destiny. The MFC have always had this habit of holding onto players for far too long. Nietz and White included.

Those posters who want to keep senior players, tell me, WHO WOULD YOU DELIST TO MAKE SUFFICIENT SPOTS AVAILABLE FOR THE DRAFT(S). Given that we will probably want between 6 and 7 spots and that Newton and Bell and I believe Dunn are contracted next year. Who do you say goodbye to.

[Vipercrunch 2,827]

Those posters who want to keep senior players, tell me, WHO WOULD YOU DELIST TO MAKE SUFFICIENT SPOTS AVAILABLE FOR THE DRAFT(S). Given that we will probably want between 6 and 7 spots and that Newton and Bell and I believe Dunn are contracted next year. Who do you say goodbye to.

Good point. There are going to be some really tough calls made at the end of this year. For that reason I think we may end up only freeing up 6 at the most spots. One spot could go to one rookie (Mackenzie would be my choice) and the others all used in the draft up to around the 4th round. It's going to be very interesting.