Ruckmen

[beelzebub 23,364]

Ive been swayed.. ..out of Siberia ( inferred or real ) has come the Russian... read Jamar= Da

I think we might have a back up in Meesen....yes.. I sense he may actually be that #2

and then the apprentice in waiting.. Spencer at 3

who else thinks this position has sort of been resolved ?

Should we get lucky and pick up someone along the way via a 3rd round draft pick or a strange merry go round trade then all well and good. But I think we may actually become competitive in this position.

[Toad33 57]

I think you are right......and have for some time.

Jamar was smashing White in the ruck contests in his last season but couldn't get it done around the ground.

IMHO the rookie list should be solely for trying to develop ruckmen and KPP.

Go Dees - Building for the Future. Our thoughts are with you Jim.

[Kat 0]

Yeh, i would agree. Last year I was really worried about Jamar and wondered if we let Jeff White go too early before Jamar could develop, but he's certainly developed into a classy ruckman - he slaughtered his opponent yesterday, great to see.

Meesen has been hit by the back luck stick with his injury, Spencer seems to be developing nicely but both should prove to be a good back up in the future to Jamar.

[beelzebub 23,364]

a positive...as a very much pinch hitter..martin can do a job.

its good going forward me thinks

[rusty_kingswood 0]

Yeh, i would agree. Last year I was really worried about Jamar and wondered if we let Jeff White go too early before Jamar could develop, but he's certainly developed into a classy ruckman - he slaughtered his opponent yesterday, great to see.

Meesen has been hit by the back luck stick with his injury, Spencer seems to be developing nicely but both should prove to be a good back up in the future to Jamar.

I like the great Russian, I like his size in particular, however, he wasnt rucking against Cox yesterday dont forget, it was Lynch and NikNat.

I would like to see him get some serious game time against some more formidable and dominant ruckman before I lock him in as the number 1 going forward.

[Doggo 32]

I'm not sure Meesen has shown enough to suggest he'll be a long term prospect. His 4 games this year were ok, but prior to that his exposed form at VFL level was not that great. Injury hasn't helped his cause to be fair, but he certainly isn't as cut-and-dried as many people make out.

Jamar's ability in ruck contests is right up there with Sandilands, Cox and Hille, but he still has some (a long) way to go before we can consider him a true top-liner. He's headed in the right direction though, now he just needs to find a lot more of the footy.

The forgotten man PJ certainly is well out of favour at the moment, but i have faith he can bounce back.

[JACKATTACK 17]

The forgotten man PJ certainly is well out of favour, but i still have faith he can bounce back.

Agreed, the thread cannot be taken seriously when he isn't mentioned. And considering Jamar was as bad if not worse at the same time in his career, and yet now he is the main part of the 'resolved' solution along with a player who has played a few below average games.

Big guys take time, while I am losing patience with PJ he is at least worth mentioning when talking about our ruck stocks.

[Dannyz 2,746]

Jamar was dominant in the ruck yesterday, but lets not forget he was coming up against Lynch who is not at all proven and third gamer Naitanui.

He's going to have to improve to go with the likes of Jolly, Hudson, Cox, Sandilands.

[Seinfeld 40]

Don't forget Jamar smashed Gardner and King in the St.Kilda game...if he can stay fit then i think he will become a top liner....

[jacey 333]

Don't forget Jamar smashed Gardner and King in the St.Kilda game

It is good to see a big man play like a big man. Nothing worse then seeing giants run around looking for handballs.

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

Agreed, the thread cannot be taken seriously when he isn't mentioned. And considering Jamar was as bad if not worse at the same time in his career, and yet now he is the main part of the 'resolved' solution along with a player who has played a few below average games.

Big guys take time, while I am losing patience with PJ he is at least worth mentioning when talking about our ruck stocks.

PJ can't and never has been able to ruck and I don't think he ever will cause he doesn't have the leap or aggression to be a good ruckman. Jamar is a good tap ruckman it's just that he is usually bad at everything else. The Jamar\Martin combination is working just fine cause Martin has a go. Until Johnson stops playing like Jane he shouldn't be part of our future.

[dee-luded 2,959]

a positive...as a very much pinch hitter..martin can do a job.

its good going forward me thinks

& he's only just starting to believe.

[dee-luded 2,959]

PJ can't and never has been able to ruck and I don't think he ever will cause he doesn't have the leap or aggression to be a good ruckman. Jamar is a good tap ruckman it's just that he is usually bad at everything else. The Jamar\Martin combination is working just fine cause Martin has a go. Until Johnson stops playing like Jane he shouldn't be part of our future.

White man can't jump, the 'Russian's' got some jumping beans in him me thinks.

Wait for his next tricks, when he takes a grab or two in the goal square.

[pantaloons 2,019]

I enjoyed the ruck setup yesterday and I'd like to see it continue for at least the rest of the year - Jamar as first ruck and big Stef relieving him. I'm not sure what effect not being able to settle into the one position will have on Stef, but I like the flexibility of being able to play him in a range of positions on the ground during the course of a game, forward, back and rucking. He's useful in a range of roles, and we don't waste a spot in the 22 with a second, NQR ruckman.

[rpfc 28,407]

It is my firm view that we cannot carry two pure ruckmen in the 22. Jamar, Meesen, and Spencer are similar in that regard and so PJ has a chance to get that backup ruckman slot longterm.

A chance that is getting smaller and smaller as Martin continues to progress.

It's funny how many of us criticised Bailey for throwing Martin around the ground, but the reality is our backline doesn't need him long term like our ruck and forward division need him.

He is a far from finished product but he makes his presence felt and his disposals count.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Agreed, the thread cannot be taken seriously when he isn't mentioned. And considering Jamar was as bad if not worse at the same time in his career, and yet now he is the main part of the 'resolved' solution along with a player who has played a few below average games.

Big guys take time, while I am losing patience with PJ he is at least worth mentioning when talking about our ruck stocks.

Why? Does PJ actuallyruck?

Jamar is in the same sphere of experience as PJ. One has shown he can at least do something in the ruck, the other ...well you know.

It is my firm view that we cannot carry two pure ruckmen in the 22. Jamar, Meesen, and Spencer are similar in that regard and so PJ has a chance to get that backup ruckman slot longterm.

Like Hawthorn, Geelong and St Kilda???

FTR, Meesen is probably as mobile if not more so than PJ.

[Doggo 32]

Why? Does PJ actuallyruck?

Jamar is in the same sphere of experience as PJ. One has shown he can at least do something in the ruck, the other ...well you know.

PJ had 32 hitouts against the Bombers a few weeks ago, with a good amount of them to advantage. In his games against WC, WB and Hawthorn this year, he's rucked very well against some quality opponents. Had the better of Taylor/Campbell, and broke even with Cox and Hudson. Tell me he showed nothing in the ruck in those games?

Surely even you'd agree that it's fair to say his rucking has improved significantly, to at least an acceptable level.

The real issue, and the reason he's not in the side at the moment, is that other aspects of his game have gone backwards. His kicking and decision-making have regressed big time, which is odd, considering that these were not an issue last year or in any previous seasons. The problem's not his ruckwork anymore, it's his ball use and confidence in his own skills.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

PJ had 32 hitouts against the Bombers a few weeks ago, with a good amount of them to advantage. In his games against WC, WB and Hawthorn this year, he's rucked very well against some quality opponents. Had the better of Taylor/Campbell, and broke even with Cox and Hudson. Tell me he showed nothing in the ruck in those games?

Surely even you'd agree that it's fair to say his rucking has improved significantly, to at least an acceptable level.

The real issue, and the reason he's not in the side at the moment, is that other aspects of his game have gone backwards. His kicking and decision-making have regressed big time, which is odd, considering that these were not an issue last year or in any previous seasons. The problem's not his ruckwork anymore, it's his ball use and confidence in his own skills.

Oh dear. Stop looking at the stats and watch the game. They must have been pretty effective hitouts because Ryder absolutely blew him away in that match. The prevous week that silk blouse of a ruckman Fraser pants him also. At best (and I mean at his very best he nullifies) but his reversion to mean and below performances. Even his most ardent supporter has labelled him our "premier ruckman" who apparently cant *cough* ruck.

The real issue he is not in the side is that we have one of our other ruckman on our list who is fit and the "AFL's best 2nd ruckman" is just not up to it.

[beelzebub 23,364]

Agreed, the thread cannot be taken seriously when he isn't mentioned. And considering Jamar was as bad if not worse at the same time in his career, and yet now he is the main part of the 'resolved' solution along with a player who has played a few below average games.

Big guys take time, while I am losing patience with PJ he is at least worth mentioning when talking about our ruck stocks.

He (PJ)was deliberately left out as I dont imagine he will take any real part in the Dees future in 2010 and onwards.. Perhaps I was too subtle

[JACKATTACK 17]

He (PJ)was deliberately left out as I dont imagine he will take any real part in the Dees future in 2010 and onwards.. Perhaps I was too subtle

Which is why the thread shouldn't be taken seriously. If the intention is to take a swipe at PJ's ability or prospects as a listed player then say so, it is quite simple really. If you want your own thread come up with something new instead of recycling other PJ bashing threads.

[praha 11,240]

Spencer is not a ruckman. That's pretty obvious when he goes up for a contest in the ruck. Jamar is good, but he needs to do a lot more around the ground. This is where Meeson comes who. PJ is a hack.

[beelzebub 23,364]

Which is why the thread shouldn't be taken seriously. If the intention is to take a swipe at PJ's ability or prospects as a listed player then say so, it is quite simple really. If you want your own thread come up with something new instead of recycling other PJ bashing threads.

see..youre the one inferring its a PJ bash.. I simply chose not to include him.. A great difference. Again possibly a subtlety too far for yourself.

Others seem to favour commentary as a form of debate.. you just want to rubbish.

As many postions need to be vacated come seasons end ( approx six ) I would expect any that have been given more than one fair shot at stating a claim and having not attained that will be delisted. I was all for PJ after he showed a bit in recent years. He has however only showed us that bit without really stepping up. Experiment is over...next

Its not a bash to simply observe.. Nor do I see it as a bash simply because YOU choose to see it that way..last time I looked you didnt run this place

[rpfc 28,407]

People can say what they like, and BB59 at least tries to back it up with an argument, most just say something, believe it is irrefutable and complain when others criticise.

Jamar, Meesen, Martin, and Spencer will definitely be on the/a list next year (Spencer on the RL).

PJ has some work to do but I dare say he won't be one to make way.

[Adelaide Demon 0]

For mine our ruck department is far from 'resolved'. Jamar was brilliant on Saturday, the best game I've seen him play (or can remember anyway), but one great game against poor opposition does not define a career. Johnson will never be anything and is completely rubbish. (I am not bashing his character or the man, he is just an awful footballer at AFL-level, this is my view. Disposal - 2/10, decisions - 1.5/10, tap work - 2/10, work-rate 7/10. Enough said.)

Spencer and Meesen should be given time. I heard Gerrard Healy throw up the idea of us trading for Jamie Charman, I actually didn't think it was the worst idea I'd heard. Don't have a clue what Brisbane would want for him though... ???

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Surely even you'd agree that it's fair to say his rucking has improved significantly, to at least an acceptable level.

Forget it Doggo. It's like banging your head against a brick wall. Some people come on here purely to get their jollies sticking it into whatever player has had a bad week that week. Don't sweat it. Nobody on this site takes the guy seriously.

Oh dear. Stop looking at the stats and watch the game.

Don't sook because ANOTHER person doesn't agree with you. There's plenty on your side, why can't you leave people with their opinions? It's not like he's making stuff up.

The prevous week that silk blouse of a ruckman Fraser pants him also.

The slik blouse who is wisely regarded as having his best season yet? In a side who he has taken to being a threat at top 4?

At best (and I mean at his very best he nullifies)

Yeah. Nullifies. Nullifies Dean Cox. But that's not worth mentioning now is it? Still waiting to hear YET ANOTHER way you can completely gloss over this fact...

Even his most ardent supporter has labelled him our "premier ruckman" who apparently cant *cough*

I am his most ardent supporter ONLY because of fairweather snipers like you. When a keyboard hero comes on and takes a swpie at player unreasonably I take action, much like I have with a certain other poster when it comes to Cam Bruce. I's called support RR... It shows a lot about how little you've been listening when you take my comments completely out of context. If you had been reading, you'd have read I rate him the best of our CURRENT ruckmen. If we had a Cox, Sandilands, hell... I'd even take a Fraser going on his current performances over PJ.

I label nothing. He's our premier ruckman because, come season's end, he'd have played mroe games in the ruck for us. Fact.

Get it right next time you decide to take a little passive aggressive swipe.

And how about this. I'll retract my statement about him not being able to ruck. I made it on the back of bad form of his, right before he took over as sole ruckman back in, I would say, round 6-8. Since then he's had more than his fair share of touches in the ruck. So let me review that statement. The guy can ruck. He's not breaking records, but he can do the job.

The real issue he is not in the side is that we have one of our other ruckman on our list who is fit and the "AFL's best 2nd ruckman" is just not up to it.

You're a clown. PJ, with a decent ruck set-up, functioning forward line, and half-effective midfield would be an ideal resting ruckman. One who could take hit-outs, but play a role elsewhere on the ground. It's why Jamar has never been taken seriously, because as part of a duo, he's a liability in the 22. And whe alone he's been a liability in just about every match I've ever seen him in until the last couple of weeks.

Once again Rhino I will expect you to:

A) Ignore the facts.

B) Ignore what is written.

C) Quote meaningless stats to support whatever garbage you've decided to heap on whatever player you feel like picking on this week.

D) Make absolutely no contribution. To anything.

Prove me wrong. Actually. Don't even bother, I have better things to do than read the same stuff I've read for seasons upon seasons now.

Which is why the thread shouldn't be taken seriously. If the intention is to take a swipe at PJ's ability or prospects as a listed player then say so, it is quite simple really. If you want your own thread come up with something new instead of recycling other PJ bashing threads.

Agreed. This is less a thread to support Jamar than it is n opportunity to have a go at a player who has missed, count them, ONE GAME this year.

see..youre the one inferring its a PJ bash.. I simply chose not to include him.. A great difference. Again possibly a subtlety too far for yourself.

Um. No. If you're not going to mention the guy who's played every game bar last week then that's exactly what it is. Not subtle actually. Obvious, cheap, and pissweak.

Others seem to favour commentary as a form of debate.. you just want to rubbish.

As many postions need to be vacated come seasons end ( approx six ) I would expect any that have been given more than one fair shot at stating a claim and having not attained that will be delisted.

You mean like Jamar, up until last week?

I was all for PJ after he showed a bit in recent years. He has however only showed us that bit without really stepping up. Experiment is over...next

Experiment is over? He's a ruckman. And Jamar took 70 matches to play the one he did this week, and still hasn't fixed any of the deficiencies so often highlighted by us. FFS he had 7 touches!!! How does everyone manage to miss this fact!!!!

Give it til round 22 and you'll be cracking it at him again, and screaming out for a different ruckman. I want to see how you'll react when Jamar inevitably returns to the form he's shown EVERY YEAR for the entire time he's been on the list.

Its not a bash to simply observe.. Nor do I see it as a bash simply because YOU choose to see it that way..last time I looked you didnt run this place

Nobody runs this place. Mods police it, but the posters run it. And you'll find he's not alone. ANYONE who reads the opening post of this thread (anyone who knows anything about our list) would be confused by the lack of mention of PJ. If you're going to DELIBERATELY omit the guy who's rucked way more than any player on the list this year, then make a post about how bad he is again... and we'll have this debate over and over like we have with the other brick walls on this site. Fair go bub, I rate your posts and threads but you're better than this.