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Showing content with the highest reputation on 09/29/2017 in all areas

  1. 15 points
    Jack Trengove is the winner of the Casey Demons 2017 Best and Fairest award - the Gardner-Clark Medal. The runner up was promising youngster Bayley Fritsch who also won the VFL's Fothergill–Round Medal for 2017 which is presented to the most promising young talent in the VFL competition.
  2. 11 points
    Jack Watts offered a promotion: from Whipping Boy to Scapegoat. When asked Jack replied "such an honour really, just thought i was only the sacrificial lamb but to be held responsible for so much is something I'll treasure for all my time at the Dees"
  3. 10 points
    Watts loves the club? Absolutely. He is clearly a decent individual? Most certainly. He is talented? Indeed. He is popular. For sure. He is MFC? A fine embodiment of the past 9 years perhaps. He craves ultimate success at this club? So so much evidence to the contrary. I'm going to miss him if he goes, but I completely understand the position of the footy department. My first instinct was "please no" mainly because I genuinely believe in the first four statements I've quoted above. I also realized after more rational thought that my main concern was what he might manage at another club. What a loser mentality that is. The word culture is so over-used in footy but this decision certainly won't cost us a premiership but it may just send the message to the rest of the list that helps us win one. We were so close this year. And I'm not talking about the .5% that cost us finals, I'm talking premierships. And premiership teams don't have passengers or those who have a good month of footy here or there. They have 22 players all pulling in the right direction who consistently meet the standards determined by the coaching staff - at the club, away from the club, during pre-season, before pre-season and in games. We've seen enough sadly. My respect for Goodwin, McCartney, Mahoney and Jackson continues to grow. We're in good hands.
  4. 9 points
    Just for a bit of fairness, too, Watts may not be the best tackler, but he gets down back at the exhaustion end of quarters and games, and saves goals. Like he did within seconds of his final goal on the QB. He has done that for several years, many times. I have wondered if he was asked to, probably was I suppose, though he doesn't seem to get much credit for doing it. He works very hard, and if you look at any vision of end-of-quarter huddles in the godawful Nield days you'll see Jack intently listening and egging his team-mates on. He is an eminently positive element in the club, and it is just not speaking truthfully to characterise him as a lazy and self-satisfied downhill skier. On here too often we didn't value Jurrah as the unique and very talented creative/offensive player he was, with post after post criticising his defensive work. Might as well bag out Ricky Jackson's ruck work. Or Petracca's tank. Etc. Armchair critics do a wonderful job explaining what they don't rate; reminds me of a lovely anecdote Horowitz told about his father-in-law Toscanini. The great conductor had just done Beethoven and as soon as interval was over he was going to do Mozart - but before he could get to the pit he was bailed up by a society dame who launched into her analysis of what was lacking in Beethoven. Finally unable to listen to any more, Toscanini interrupted, saying "Madam, what you think doesn't matter." Well, rude, yes, but he was obviously right as far as Beethoven goes. Some people assume their own expertise when there is nothing to support it, and they have no shame splashing their ignorance and inanities around. Demonland is not full of supporters; it's full of know-alls who dismiss and slander athletes doing stuff most of these critics cannot understand and have only ever dreamed about. Spout their hairy-chested nonsense shamelessly. So what if the club does get a good deal when they cast Watts aside? Are we in Nield's camp, not seeing them as people? It is a disgrace to cast off a loyal servant who faced up to gorillas in the ruck week after week, surprising everyone with his resilience and effectiveness when so out of his weight, only to end up injured - at which point we are callously and ungratefully hop into him and his failings, completely disregard what he says publicly about his own strong preferences, when he's thrust into the spotlight by the club; and we start haggling over the body and what we might get in the aftermath, even before he's gone. And dignify it with calling it a "forum"! Nah, shout your abuse at my back, and yes, I'll close the door as I leave. I say, shame on the lot of you!
  5. 8 points
    F..k our supporters have no idea. If you think Jack Watts is going to be the reason we climb further up the ladder than you are kidding yourself. The only reason we make the finals and go beyond that is because of Oliver, Hunt, Trac, Brayshaw, Viney, Hogan. Nothing to do with Watts you bunch of peanuts
  6. 8 points
    That comment plus other posters saying key players want Watts out is sounding like Stringer Mark11! Not in the sense of the level of misdemeanour but more in the dynamics around how is being pushed out of the club. Goodwin is a Rookie coach. As @Ron Burgundyeloquently says in above post: The problem with most first year coaches is that they try too hard. They squeeze the grip too hard, they lack soft hands, they micro manage far too much. Let him breathe Simon. I would like to see Goodwin take up the challenge to get the best from Jack rather than turf him out and some other club reap the reward with a coach who treats each player as an individual and knows which buttons to press to achieve their best. At the moment it looks like he is washing his hands of 'a problem' that he seems unable, impatient or unwilling to try and 'fix'.
  7. 7 points
    In the lead up to the GF, every analyst is talking about structures, and in particular defensive pressure within the forward lines. Jack Watts has got more talent than every Richmond forward bar Jack Riewoldt. Would the Richmond forwardline function better with Jack Watts? I doubt it, because it's all based on pressure. Last week on SEN, Goodwin was asked about ideal forward structures, and said that you have to predominantly work with the strengths you have. He mentioned Petracca, Hogan and T Mac. No mention of Watts. Watts is a skillful player, but what role does he play in our forward structure? He's not a prolific goalkicker. He's poor at creating contests because he doesn't hit packs. He's poor at defensive pressure. ANB and Hannan are less talented, but the FD obviously believe that they complement our strengths. In 9 years and under 4 coaches, Watts has never been able to cement a defined role within the team. Why wouldn't we be looking to trade him while he has some sort of currency?
  8. 7 points
    Hope not. If the club don't like his comments they should not have allowed him on SEN. Or else ensure that he has a script to talk to and tows the company line which Jones so obviously does. I liked hearing Tyson stick up for his team mate.
  9. 7 points
    A big element of the Leading Team's formula is about involving players in key issues and empowering players about many matters that have traditionally been decreed from the Mount. In short, it is about creating trust and reducing the feeling of being coached in an autocratic regime. I am very nervous about this one. And that's only partially due to my affection for Jack Watts. It's actually principally due to my experience in people management in a group environment. It is critical to have one's ear to the ground on this stuff, to sense the temperature of the team on certain decisions. I really rate Goodwin as a coach, and I think the club is very fortunate to have him. But I fear he's potentially going to make his first big mistake here. I sincerely hope that, before he pushes the button on this, he listens to quite a few experienced heads about this, eg, Paul Roos and Todd Viney.
  10. 7 points
    The problem with most first year coaches is that they try to hard. They squeeze the grip too hard, they lack soft hands, they micro manage far too much. Watts loves the club. He is clearly a decent individual. He is talented. He is popular. He is MFC. And, like us, he craves ultimate success at this club. Let him breathe Simon. Give him some space to do it his way (within team rules, obviously). I reckon you'll be rewarded for it if you do. It'll be a sad day if Watts is traded this year. I reckon the movie script will have been cut a few scenes too short.
  11. 6 points
    McCartney was at a footy lunch today talking to a Demon tragic, Jack gone. An independent source tells me that the Coach (Goodwin) wants Jack out. Jacks manager thinks Jack would be better off elsewhere if 2 coaches no longer have a place for him. Unless something dramati changes Jack will seek greener pastures, not sure why McCartney and Goodwin are so adamant after renewing hsi contract last year.
  12. 6 points
    Trade Hogan!!!!!!!!!!!! This can longer be called "the silly season", it is the [censored] in the head season!!
  13. 6 points
    The wildly different views on Jack should be proof enough that it's time to move on. He is entering his 10th season and we are still having the exact same conversations about him that we've been having for more than half a decade. If that's not evidence enough then I don't know what is.
  14. 6 points
    JW was injured too Before his SEVERE hamstring tear, he was having a great year Rushed in before he was ready - the medicos got it wrong
  15. 6 points
    Well let's analyse that a bit. BK I think will be gone by trade or delisted by list lodgment time. JKH is working on his game and had massive numbers at Casey, getting his own ball, playing in the mid field over a number of weeks. Bugg can't be accused of being soft, has a go, puts some angst in opposition players and needs to work on eliminating stupidity, but was part of the team when we were aggressive and up and running. IMO is not in best 22 but is handy to have for depth. Vince will play his last year and reportedly is ok if form means he plays at Casey and won't sook. Gawn is our number 1 ruck who was badly injured and who is AA and can play. Some of his poor play was actually players not going to right spots to win his tap outs. Oliver had no problem. Wagner is a limited player who could improve, but don't think he needs a blowtorch from the Coach. Harmes is a goer who needs to work on his disposal. Do you think he will improve with a blow torch? Salem and Billy could use a bit of a blowtorch in respect to more involvement and attack on the ball, but both have great disposal. ANB has worked harder than most and attacks the contest, has a weakness in disposal and a blowtorch would have no effect on that. Garlett showed early season passion and pressure and was clearly affected late in the year by the loss of a family member. I don't think you blowtorch the Garletts of this world, I think you just encourage them to be their best. One last thought, if you add JW to the list above, who would be the most passive, non aggressive, weakest contested ball player in that list and who has been on the list the longest and made the least improvement in their all round game?
  16. 6 points
    I wonder if he'll apply the same torch to BK, JKH, Bugg, Vince, Gawn, Wagner, Harmes, Salem, ANB, Stetch, Garlett ? He'd have to know them pretty well as well Jack's not without fault. He has a lot of team mates
  17. 6 points
    Goodwin has been at the MFC for 4 years with JW and is now a 2nd year Coach. Reckon he might know a bit more about JW than some on here.
  18. 6 points
    One thing I have learned from years on DL and that is that posters, including some who have never even seen a training session, know more about a player, than the coaches and fellow players who spend all day with them, for up to 11 months of the year and who also happen to play alongside them. What would any of those players or coaches know unless of course they read DL. Of course we can all have opinions too, but we need to remember the many people involved in making these decisions and the knowledge they must have about the people they are deciding about.
  19. 6 points
    I do hope that no injuries come out of the game, particularly to any members of the Crows' backline.
  20. 6 points
    I just can't accept that we're going to trade out our best kick when week after week we drop games through terrible disposal. The one guy in our side who can hit a forward target and they want to get rid of him. I guess we'll just have to be happy with high bombs to the hot spot and watching the ball rebound the length of the ground for an opposition goal every time.
  21. 5 points
    The Club can't afford to trade Hogan. The supporter fallout would be catastrophic and detrimental to our membership numbers. The rumour is mischievous
  22. 5 points
    The fact that a 26 year old player comes back to preseason underdone is very poor. Setting standards at a footy club is more important than any one player, no matter how talented.
  23. 5 points
    Yes I still think that and I would keep Jack, but it appears I am being overruled by the MFC FD. Given that, there is not much I can do but hope we get a good deal. I assume those that know, have evaluated his performance and attitude etc, like they would do with every player on the list and have come to the conclusion that he is not assisting our push to a GF, nor is he the player we would select for one.
  24. 5 points
    Jones is just annoyed he doesn't get a discount of pineapple and strawberry print boardshorts.
  25. 5 points
    Absolute rubbish that we would entertain trading Hogan to acquire Lever! ?
  26. 5 points
    Don't want to see Jack leave but I would be really [censored] off if the club changed it's mind because of a supporter backlash. Have to believe the club knows what it is doing. Make that Knows what it is doing now. https://www.change.org/p/melbourne-football-club-keep-jack-watts-at-the-melbourne-football-club/nftexp/ex5/v4/34902785?recruiter=34902785&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_content=ex5%3Av4
  27. 5 points
    I hate Richmond! I hope they either get a jolly good flogging or lose, in controversial circumstances, by a point. I shall put a bit of hard earned on the Adelaide to win by over 40. [censored] Richmond Go Crows!
  28. 5 points
    I think if Jack gets traded a few supporters on here need to be careful about jumping to conclusions based on some fairly flimsy logic. Just because some of the FD aren't unanimous about trading him doesn't mean that the decision to trade him is wrong. Goodwin does not equal Neeld. There is no indication to me that he's a tyrant like Neeld; what I've heard since assuming control is how the players love him. Just because Roos wouldn't trade Jack similarly doesn't mean that Roos thinks Goodwin is wrong. Paul made mention of the fact he didn't know what was going on with the situation. Jack is an amazingly talented footballer who can do things many on the list can't and that is a very good reason not to trade him, however both the FD and players this year have vocalised their disappointment in his preparation and I assume that in terms of setting standards that a threshold has been reached with Jack. We really don't know what his relationship with Goodwin is, (it maybe better than most here assume) nor do we understand what the conversation between them has been. I assume it was open and transparent and others at the club were aware of what was being asked. IF Jack hasn't met that, or worse has failed to honour any commitments he's given - then how does any coach look the rest of the playing group in the eye.
  29. 5 points
    Congrats Trenners in his last year to get the B&F for Casey! He tried his heart out this season and was well deserved.
  30. 5 points
    Probably will end up doing Watts for Toumpas
  31. 5 points
    I would think Rawlings has been told he will not get the GC job and is trying to improve his CV by coaching a team outright.
  32. 4 points
    Lol, critique the content not the person(s).
  33. 4 points
    I agree, cant believe some of the trades I have read on this forum.
  34. 4 points
    I think Goodwin has had enough and is drawing a line in the sand for our culture perhaps, maybe Jack is distracting players with his nice guy attitude to all things football and life. Pre season something happened and this last fall out must be to do with his recovery from injury, as it kept dragging on. I think that's possibly whats happened here. If Watts is an issue, I'm happy for him to go and our culture to more tougher. No more Mr Nice Guy, we need to win premierships, not have nice teammates.
  35. 4 points
    If you had written this two years ago I would have agreed with you. But the last two years have seen his most consistent effective footy, and while he is just a role player he has a dire need of ours - outside skill and run and vision. Criticising his tackling numbers as an indicator of his inability to apply pressure is a misnomer - I was at a coaching conference about 4 years ago and Clarkson was banging on about people talking about tackling numbers when he doesn't care about tackle numbers (incomplete tackles another matter), he cares about pressure acts and keeping the ball in your half. As an example, Watts only had two tackles against Collingwood but was equal 5th with Jones for pressure acts. Stats make us liars at the best of times but make of that data what you will...
  36. 4 points
    Anyone hear KB on the radio this morning? f$&@k me they are insufferable Calling the MCG the stadium built for them etc etc just do it Crows please...
  37. 4 points
    3 years into a 5 year contract and this is the 1st as senior coach. It is barely 12 months since Goodwin was involved in re signing Jack for 3 more years (Roos departed some 6 weeks later so input was limited, if any). Now, after his first year as a rookie coach he decides to move Jack on. I do not pretend to know what goes on behind the doors. But I feel it was reasonable to ask a question about Goodwin's willingness to take on the challenge of getting the best from Jack, which was the essence of my post.
  38. 4 points
    who ever can....all the appeal of a train wreck meets Nightmare on Swan St !!
  39. 4 points
    I want to stop reading Demonland until after trade week but I just can't seem to avert my eyes.
  40. 4 points
    Just caught up on this thread. Wow. Just fkn wow!
  41. 4 points
    Lever will stay at crows when he hears all our top liner players traded out
  42. 4 points
    I also dislike Richmond with a passion. Hope Adelaide thrash them. Went to work yesterday (had to drive through Richmond unfortunately) and all I saw were Richmond flags and posters and Richmond supporters dressed head to toe in yellow and black. (Doesn't anyone in Richmond have a job??). I almost wanted to puke. I do not understand the love for Richmond.
  43. 4 points
    They are some good points, but Hogan's second efforts and pressure are worse than Watts. The key forward can't get away with doing nothing on that front.
  44. 4 points
    Agree with everything except the 'really rate Goodwin as a coach' Jury's still out on that one
  45. 4 points
    Dom Tyson has stated publicly that he hopes watts stays and he's to important to trade. Reckon he will get a talking to about that
  46. 3 points
    I'll say something that may seem unkind but read it in context. If Hogan were to seek a trade home this year, after signing a new contract and then having the year from hell, in which the MFC have supported him 100%, I would regard him as an ungrateful person who I would then care little about. HOWEVER, that is not the case and he is going nowhere. He apparently loves the club and his team mates and he continues to have my full support in both his recovery and his football career, with the Dees.
  47. 3 points
    Ditto. Sick of feral tiger fans carrying on while we cant even lay more than 6 tackles in a quarter the opposition kicks 6 goals with finals on the line. Im still so [censored] salty
  48. 3 points
    Watts's playing career with the Demons is now past. I'm more interested now in the future from season 2018 onwards. And I can't help but be concerned. This is the first cause for concern: This is actually a massive slap from Roos. There's a strong implication here that things have gone back to the pre-Roos days of "always harp(ing) on people's weaknesses", which Roos believes was the main problem before he got there. With this I totally agree. He also says that it wasn't difficult to motivate Watts: "Wattsy responded when you talk about his positives". Again, a strong implication that they knew how to get the most out of Watts, but thought it was better to do the opposite. Again, I don't care who's to blame: Watts is past, our coaches are the future. Do our coaches only know one way to motivate the team - by smashing them about their weaknesses and faults - even when they know it's counterproductive for certain players? Is this what went on in the last half of the season that resulted in the whole team losing their ability to take the game on, when our scoring per game went from 102 points before the Swans game to 79 points after. What caused the whole team to collectively go back into its shells? If Watts isn't the only one who responds better to positive mediation, and if the coaches do the same thing next season ... that's my concern. And it would seem that concern is shared by Roos. Another concern is the clubs that are apparently interested in him. Port and Collingwood we know, and apparently Geelong, Sydney & West Coast. There are a good number of clubs who think they might be able to do better with Watts than we did. These are all solid, well-run, well-structured clubs, not the sort of clubs (Brisbane or Freo) that enjoy a desperate speculative gamble. We have cast off many players over the past 10 years or so, no other player has had interest from 5 clubs. OK, maybe our rookie coach and a previously failed coach may know more. Or maybe not. But I can't help but be very concerned about the future.
  49. 3 points
    Adelaide by 8 goals. Once the fantasy is put to bed, Crows will put them to the sword. Punt road will run red. Well done Tiggies for getting there.
  50. 3 points
    I don't have an issue with this whatsoever, as it sounds as though that part of this is player group driven. Which ultimately is what Roos wanted. The players taking responsibility for their future and driving standards. Nate has come out and said the playing group has had a go at Jack during the course of the year for his lax application. If this were all coming from the coach (as it seemed to be with Neeld), then perhaps. However, it hasn't all been coach driven. Methinks something might have happened over the last couple of weeks that finally turned certain key members of the playing group against Jack. That in some way gives me no joy and in other ways gives me hope. A lot of the time on here, posters talk about how someone was a 'good bloke who they would share a beer' with when they get delisted or sacked (except Lumumba and that is understandable). Hell, even some were saying that about Neeldy even though he acted like a dead set peanut in the early days (though I must admit that I felt horribly sad for him at the end and was worried about how he was actually holding up). However, NO ONE disputes Jack is a lovely bloke and it pains me to see someone with such a good nature now being given the flick. Nonetheless, if this is coming from certain sections of the leadership group, maybe we have FINALLY decided that we want to become great and that Jack's lackadaisical attitude is symptomatic of what has gone wrong from 2009 onwards. If that is the case, then I will be overjoyed.
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