Farewell Jesse Hogan

[DV8 2,271]

16 hours ago, billyblanks29 said:

You watch T Mac wait and time his marking properly. Hogan cannot do this. Even the weed is a better contested mark.

This is because he's not a natural deep forward... and I'm sure he doesn't want to play out his time being a step ladder.

Hogan is and always was a high forward, half-forward type.

He does not have a launch button. 

So plays low on confidence, when as a deep forward.

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,850]

1 minute ago, Bossdog said:

Who do you think will replace a 195cm 100kg KPF, 23 year old who has kicked 153 goals (47 this year) and plays all over the ground?     He kicked 1.3 yesterday and you want to trade him????

Please read my post about who’s he’s kicked those goals against, again players are judged in the big games.

[Moonshadow 16,109]

11 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Who is this ready made player, who is actually available, that will improve us going forward?

Who is going to cover the 50 odd goals that Hogan has kicked for us this year?

I look forward to your suggestions.  Remember, I'd like to see players who will actually be available and that we need to trade for.  Gaff doesn't count because we can get him without trading.

Wise, every club has very good players in contract that could still be traded. 'Actually available' is is a bit of a furphy. Technically, Hogan is contracted and not 'actually available', but here we are, discussing it!

And it's worth noting that Hogan is not ready made, he still has major deficiencies that are currently preventing him from reaching near his peak. But the potential is certainly there.

As I've said, I'd like to retain him and work on things he can improve, but in a year's time if his contract expires without re-signing, that may be moot.

Look, just because Hogan is a young, key forward kicking 47 goals doesn't mean we can't have a reasonable conversation about his worth to the team and his value on the open market, especially given the yearly rumours. It's tiresome reading some posters outrage, belittling and name calling when these types of discussions arise. And yes, I know I'm no angel. ?

[DV8 2,271]

16 hours ago, red&blue1982 said:

If the season was over, then maybe i'd talk trades. We got to use what we've got for now.

What happens when your newly recruited player starts under preforming..... trade talks begin again?

Hogan's fix's the one flaw in his game eg, instead of stuttering up to his set shot at goal like he's trying to pull off a ridiculous dance maneuver and just kick the skin off it; he'd at the very least be a 50/50 chance and we'd all love him.

He holds the ball, and his run-up,,,,,   is for a LEFT Footer.

 

Why hasn't anyone listened to my post years back,,,, and taught him to kick with the left boot ????

[Moonshadow 16,109]

3 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

I just posted earlier to Jaded, I would target a Giants mid, maybe a Cognilio (24 years old) or Whitfield (24 years old) or Shiel (25) Kelly (23) doesn’t matter if they’re in contact because as we know they can be broken. Giants get the picks from the Hogan trade allowing them to attack the draft again for top end talent. Giants still have Scully, Ward amongst others, if the price was right we might be able to squeeze one out. 

 

Then for Peter Wright we could trade fringe players/ 2nd round picks. Would Peter Wright kick 50 goals, probably not, but with another gun mid he could get 30-35 as well as playing ruck. But on the flip side we leave TMac at FF and he could get anywhere between 60-70. 

If these scenarios or something couldn’t happen I wouldn’t trade Hogan purely for picks that we keep.

Good suggestions BA

[DV8 2,271]

4 minutes ago, Tim said:

Big call, champ.

Yes, obvious call.

 

I called for this last year. for him to play  like Ryan O'Keefe did.   and like jRiewoldt is now.

[Graeme Yeats' Mullet 6,267]

58 minutes ago, rpfc said:

There is no negative emoji to put onto posts so I will say this:

Those that want to trade Hogan are betraying their lack of footy knowledge and intelligence. And they are also revealing they don’t know what ‘drives’ football clubs. 

Hogan playing hurt for the team must give a little bit extra for the players and he has my appreciation and admiration as a supporter. 

He was also in the discussion for AA earlier in the year.

Beggars belief some of your neuroses, Land.

I found one...?

[Jaded No More 57,660]

7 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

I just posted earlier to Jaded, I would target a Giants mid, maybe a Cognilio (24 years old) or Whitfield (24 years old) or Shiel (25) Kelly (23) doesn’t matter if they’re in contact because as we know they can be broken. Giants get the picks from the Hogan trade allowing them to attack the draft again for top end talent. Giants still have Scully, Ward amongst others, if the price was right we might be able to squeeze one out. 

 

Then for Peter Wright we could trade fringe players/ 2nd round picks. Would Peter Wright kick 50 goals, probably not, but with another gun mid he could get 30-35 as well as playing ruck. But on the flip side we leave TMac at FF and he could get anywhere between 60-70. 

If these scenarios or something couldn’t happen I wouldn’t trade Hogan purely for picks that we keep.

OK lets say we could trade Hogan for Kelly who is a superstar, who does Kelly kick to up forward? Where do we get 50+ goals a season from?

If we trade Hogan, we have to at the very least replace his output like for like, if not better it.

If you can find me a KPF Hogan's age who will kick 50+ goals a season, every season, then I'm super open to discuss a trade.  

[DV8 2,271]

14 hours ago, Big Demon said:

Were you at the snow for the first couple of months of the year when Hogan would of been leading our B&F pal? Form has slumped but we now know what he can do.

 

He was playing high half-forward, midfield, and that had his enjoyment high, and confidence was up.  He could run about and collect kicks at will.

He is NO full forward.

[DV8 2,271]

4 minutes ago, Jaded said:

OK lets say we could trade Hogan for Kelly who is a superstar, who does Kelly kick to up forward? Where do we get 50+ goals a season from?

If we trade Hogan, we have to at the very least replace his output like for like, if not better it.

If you can find me a KPF Hogan's age who will kick 50+ goals a season, every season, then I'm super open to discuss a trade.  

Weideman, TMc, Petracca, Hannan, Gawn;,,,  and others not seen by us yet, with the proceeds.

[Dee tention 611]

Forget about trading Hogan! He is a required player.

We need to fix our coaching box and game plan!

We should be chasing Caracella very very hard!

 

[Jaded No More 57,660]

Just now, DV8 said:

Weideman, TMc, Petracca, Hannan, Gawn;,,,  and others not seen by us yet, with the proceeds.

We already get max output from Tmac.

Weideman is a total unknown. I have yet to see him do anything at AFL level to suggest he is any good.

Petracca is a bigger downhill skier than Hogan.

Gawn is a full time ruckman. Will never play enough forward to kick 50.

Hannan? Lol.

What you're suggesting, is that by getting rid of Hogan we will magically get other players to step up and cover his 50 goals, although even with him in the team taking the best defender, neither Trac nor Weiderman nor Hannan have cracked 30 goals between them in a season. 

[Wiseblood 24,636]

17 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

I just posted earlier to Jaded, I would target a Giants mid, maybe a Cognilio (24 years old) or Whitfield (24 years old) or Shiel (25) Kelly (23) doesn’t matter if they’re in contact because as we know they can be broken. Giants get the picks from the Hogan trade allowing them to attack the draft again for top end talent. Giants still have Scully, Ward amongst others, if the price was right we might be able to squeeze one out. 

 

Then for Peter Wright we could trade fringe players/ 2nd round picks. Would Peter Wright kick 50 goals, probably not, but with another gun mid he could get 30-35 as well as playing ruck. But on the flip side we leave TMac at FF and he could get anywhere between 60-70. 

If these scenarios or something couldn’t happen I wouldn’t trade Hogan purely for picks that we keep.

For me, there is no chance the Giants trade away either Coniglio or Whitfield.  Whitfield I guess is a chance as he is Victorian, but Coniglio is turning into a star.  Why would they trade him away? 

Not only that, with Cameron, Patton and Lobb, they would have no interest in also adding Hogan to the mix.  Also, they are in their premiership window and would have next to no interest I would have thought in going back to the draft.

Plus, the Suns just lost Tom Lynch.  I highly doubt they would be willing to give up another tall as well

Bottom line is that there is not much out there.  I don't really want picks either, but then I have zero interest in trading a 23 year old key forward who is capable of kicking 50 plus goals a season.  I think we are focusing in the wrong places in terms of how we could improve our list, and this is Exhibit A.

[demoniac 1,243]

Hogan is not a Full Forward. 

If you are playing Full Forward you need to be able to read the flight of the ball in the air to get in the right position,  have speed to gap opponent in 5 to 10 steps, jump when flatfooted and take one grab overhead marks.  These are all attributes Hogan lacks. It also helps to have an easily repeatable goal kicking technique!

In essence Hogan's attributes are much more suited to playing as a mobile medium forward. Unless he is matched up to a midfielder kicking long and high to Hogan is not a percentage play.

[DV8 2,271]

3 minutes ago, Jaded said:

We already get max output from Tmac.

Weideman is a total unknown. I have yet to see him do anything at AFL level to suggest he is any good.

Petracca is a bigger downhill skier than Hogan.

Gawn is a full time ruckman. Will never play enough forward to kick 50.

Hannan? Lol.

What you're suggesting, is that by getting rid of Hogan we will magically get other players to step up and cover his 50 goals, although even with him in the team taking the best defender, neither Trac nor Weiderman nor Hannan have cracked 30 goals between them in a season. 

They can all catch the high ball, Jaded.   They all have good hands, and can kick straight.

So as they rotate past deep forward they are genuine targets.

Add Fritsch as well.

[DV8 2,271]

2 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

For me, there is no chance the Giants trade away either Coniglio or Whitfield.  Whitfield I guess is a chance as he is Victorian, but Coniglio is turning into a star.  Why would they trade him away? 

Not only that, with Cameron, Patton and Lobb, they would have no interest in also adding Hogan to the mix.  Also, they are in their premiership window and would have next to no interest I would have thought in going back to the draft.

Plus, the Suns just lost Tom Lynch.  I highly doubt they would be willing to give up another tall as well

Bottom line is that there is not much out there.  I don't really want picks either, but then I have zero interest in trading a 23 year old key forward who is capable of kicking 50 plus goals a season.  I think we are focusing in the wrong places in terms of how we could improve our list, and this is Exhibit A.

It depends not on GWS,,,   but on the players themselves,  IF they want to move to Melbourne ?

[layzie 28,514]

If Hogan wants to go, then get the negotiation underway and work out a deal that will benefit us in the biggest way possible.

If that's not the case then I am not interested in trading him.

[bobby1554 1,132]

48 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Who is this ready made player, who is actually available, that will improve us going forward?

Who is going to cover the 50 odd goals that Hogan has kicked for us this year?

I look forward to your suggestions.  Remember, I'd like to see players who will actually be available and that we need to trade for.  Gaff doesn't count because we can get him without trading.

Not if West Coast match any offer, then we have to trade

[juzzk1d 1,354]

I think one thing people are forgetting is that key forwards do not demand the current as they once did. Deals like the Boyd trade inflated their worth, but now Richmond and Collingwood are quickly proving that they aren't needed for a premiership tilt.

Even if we decided to put Hogan on the trade table, he'd command a first round pick. Nothing more, nothing less. Gone are the days were people sold the farm for one key position player. 

[Wiseblood 24,636]

21 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Wise, every club has very good players in contract that could still be traded. 'Actually available' is is a bit of a furphy. Technically, Hogan is contracted and not 'actually available', but here we are, discussing it!

And it's worth noting that Hogan is not ready made, he still has major deficiencies that are currently preventing him from reaching near his peak. But the potential is certainly there.

As I've said, I'd like to retain him and work on things he can improve, but in a year's time if his contract expires without re-signing, that may be moot.

Look, just because Hogan is a young, key forward kicking 47 goals doesn't mean we can't have a reasonable conversation about his worth to the team and his value on the open market, especially given the yearly rumours. It's tiresome reading some posters outrage, belittling and name calling when these types of discussions arise. And yes, I know I'm no angel. ?

Where do we draw the line though, Moonie?  Does Oliver have a couple of shockers and we start talking trades on him?

I just think even considering trading a key forward, who is capable of 50 plus goals a game, when there is no one out there to replace his goals and his output, is a little short sighted.

And BA's suggestions might sound good on paper, but they make no sense for us, nor would GWS or GC really entertain those at this point.  

[Jaded No More 57,660]

Just now, DV8 said:

They can all catch the high ball, Jaded.   They all have good hands, and can kick straight.

So as they rotate past deep forward they are genuine targets.

Add Fritsch as well.

But they are already in the team, and there is nothing stopping them now from being those targets kicking big numbers every season, least of all Hogan who is dragging away the best defender, sometimes two.

Without Hogan those players won't simply get magically better, and none of them are tall enough to be KPFs, except Weids, who again has shown nothing to suggest he can replace Hogan's output now or in the near future. 

And if you think Hogan doesn't perform in big games, lets talk about the last time Petracca stood up and delivered in a game, any game.

[Superunknown 3,307]

1 minute ago, Jaded said:

And if you think Hogan doesn't perform in big games, lets talk about the last time Petracca stood up and delivered in a game, any game.

Well that escalated quickly.

Now we're talking about trading Petracca!

 

[DV8 2,271]

12 minutes ago, juzzk1d said:

I think one thing people are forgetting is that key forwards do not demand the current as they once did. Deals like the Boyd trade inflated their worth, but now Richmond and Collingwood are quickly proving that they aren't needed for a premiership tilt.

Even if we decided to put Hogan on the trade table, he'd command a first round pick. Nothing more, nothing less. Gone are the days were people sold the farm for one key position player. 

This, is about to Swing back again juzzkid1.

 

One pick, and the deal does not get done...   Simple, it has to be a top 10 pick + another.

 

The open spaces are about to open up again, via rule changes,,,  and tall deep forwards will be back in business.

But Hogan is no deep forward.   He's a step ladder,  in that part of the ground.

Edited August 13, 2018 by DV8

[DV8 2,271]

7 minutes ago, Jaded said:

But they are already in the team, and there is nothing stopping them now from being those targets kicking big numbers every season, least of all Hogan who is dragging away the best defender, sometimes two.

Without Hogan those players won't simply get magically better, and none of them are tall enough to be KPFs, except Weids, who again has shown nothing to suggest he can replace Hogan's output now or in the near future. 

And if you think Hogan doesn't perform in big games, lets talk about the last time Petracca stood up and delivered in a game, any game.

We don't have the class running thru the midfield, to create quickly enough, for this to happen,,, at this point.

 this is what thee trade discussion is all about.

__ getting those class running player's.... onto our list.

 

7 minutes ago, Jaded said:

lets talk about the last time Petracca stood up and delivered in a game, any game.

Thats right. if you read my posts last night, you would have seen my answer to that.

 

.... I give him one more season, to become more mature and Professional about his footy.  before the heat comes onto his career.

He's a kid who should enjoying his footy...  but he's nowhere near fit enough, and should be working on his agility and speed.

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by DV8

[Moonshadow 16,109]

5 minutes ago, bobby1554 said:

Not if West Coast match any offer, then we have to trade

Unlikely as they've just signed Gov for 5 years at $385mill per season and the compo pick they'd get for Gaff would likely be around mid 1st round