Post Match Discussion - Preliminary Final

[Wiseblood 24,636]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

0 goals at halftime v 10 goals

A Grand Final berth gone  

34 tackles for the team all day

That’s what happened, the list won’t naturally improve magically. It will hopefully improve with hard work with blood sweat and tears. 

But all the clubs below us will strive to improve as well

in 1995 we failed to make the finals, the same happened in 2001  

chances don’t always come around straight away, thus  this summers pre-season has become very important for everyone at the club

your opinions of what i said are just that

Jesus Christ.

Everyone, you've been warned.  SWYL is going to go on about this for six months.  He will find any way he can to push this agenda in any thread he can get his mits on.  

To the others, I'm looking forward to thoughtful, insightful discussion on the club moving forward that doesn't go round and round in circles.

[Redleg 37,479]

25 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Too worried about Collingwood. Sometime between Friday and game time the focus shifted.

Totally disagree. Would not have entered their mind. The aim was a GF not to play a particular club. 

I think it is more to do with being worried about losing to Eagles and  not playing their game but being pressured into mistakes and then losing total confidence in their basic abilities.

[pinkshark 935]

Carn the Dees!  Thanks for an exciting ride young Demons.  Thanks for giving my young kids some awesome early footy final memories.  Good on you Goody for doing a great job.  I was a doubter.  I take it back.  Lets just be in the mix the next few years.  

[beelzebub 22,225]

Some suggest I'm negative. Actually I'm pretty positive ..... that it's 54 and counting.

Only ONE team will truly achieve anything this year. It ain't us.

As others opine..some hard/harsh decisions ahead.

 

[Wiseblood 24,636]

38 minutes ago, ProDee said:

2019 should be Jones' last year.  He's just about finished.  I know he'd like to play for another 4-5 years, but next year should be his last.

Tyson has to go.  He's been pushed to the outside and simply isn't good enough there.

Lewis is finished.

Frost and Oscar were comical.  And I wouldn't play Lever and Frost in the same team.

We lack composure and class through the midfield and flanks.  Imo, organic growth won't be enough to go to the next step.

I doubt I've seen more fumbling and players falling over in my time watching footy.

It's been a very good year, but there should be career ramifications for that performance.

I agree on Tyson, PD.  I don't see him as a best 22 player.  I think the club will actively look to trade him in the off season if we can get something decent.  I've seen the rumour that we offered him to North for Preuss but they were not interested.  A late second/early third might be the best we can do.

I think Frost and Oscar, while not playing their best games, were not helped at all by the midfield.  Time and time again Kennedy took marks on the lead from kicks that had minimal pressure on them.  Frost and Oscar can't do a whole lot about that.  Their second halves of the season give me cause for optimism more than this game would have me worried.

The other thing I agree links to both Jones and Tyson - they aren't wingers long term for us.  Hopefully Billy Stretch can return well from his injury and someone like Hunt, or even Baker, can have very strong pre-seasons and put their hands up to be consistent players in the senior side.

Overall, I think a big pre-season will go along way to having us take the next step, much like we did this year.  There is still lots of improvement in the side and I'm bullish about our chances in 2019.

[Sir Why You Little 34,420]

2 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Jesus Christ.

Everyone, you've been warned.  SWYL is going to go on about this for six months.  He will find any way he can to push this agenda in any thread he can get his mits on.  

To the others, I'm looking forward to thoughtful, insightful discussion on the club moving forward that doesn't go round and round in circles.

You just don’t want to acknowledge facts. 

I really don’t care. 

I feel so sorry for all our diehard members and supporters who spent $1,000’s of dollars trecking across the country to witness such a soulless and pathetic game yesterday. 

0 goals at halftime is the story. 

[Redleg 37,479]

Just now, Wiseblood said:

Jesus Christ.

Everyone, you've been warned.  SWYL is going to go on about this for six months.  He will find any way he can to push this agenda in any thread he can get his mits on.  

To the others, I'm looking forward to thoughtful, insightful discussion on the club moving forward that doesn't go round and round in circles.

Ok Wise you are generally positive and I will now go into positive mode. 

We are better than at any time in the last 12 years. We have some real talent. We have seen that we can play finals, certainly at the G, where earlier this year we were doubting ourselves.

Going forward we need to identify areas of improvement.

Gawn was done and Preuss would help him no end. Get him. 

Run and carry is needed. Hopefully Hunt gets back to his best.Maybe Baker can improve. Bring in some run and carry. 

Skill. Identify those without required level and move them on. Still look for contested players and outside players but identify skill as a major requirement.

Pace. Look to improve in that area as well but still with the skill requirement.

Try and find another Jeffy type. 

Cone back next year with real hunger. 

[John Crow Batty 8,226]

4 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Totally disagree. Would not have entered their mind. The aim was a GF not to play a particular club. 

I think it is more to do with being worried about losing to Eagles and  not playing their game but being pressured into mistakes and then losing total confidence in their basic abilities.

You don’t think the players watched Friday nights game and some of them might have exclaimed “[censored]” or “holy shyte? The job suddenly became too hard. 

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Just now, Redleg said:

Ok Wise you are generally positive and I will now go into positive mode. 

We are better than at any time in the last 12 years. We have some real talent. We have seen that we can play finals, certainly at the G, where earlier this year we were doubting ourselves.

Going forward we need to identify areas of improvement.

Gawn was done and Preuss would help him no end. Get him. 

Run and carry is needed. Hopefully Hunt gets back to his best.Maybe Baker can improve. Bring in some run and carry. 

Skill. Identify those without required level and move them on. Still look for contested players and outside players but identify skill as a major requirement.

Pace. Look to improve in that area as well but still with the skill requirement.

Try and find another Jeffy type. 

Cone back next year with real hunger. 

All good stuff, Red.  I readily accept and admit that, as a team, we still have areas for improvement and we have some big decisions to make.

Preuss would most certainly help, but can we fit him in the side?  He would spend 80% of his time forward, so can he be effective enough there to get a run?

I'd love to see Hunt have a huge pre-season and get his confidence back.  In fact, I think releasing him from the half back line and getting him on a wing where he can use his pace would be the best thing for him.

Also, I have faith that, even without a first round pick, that we can still find some gems in the draft.  I wouldn't be against another handy player from the state leagues (like we've found with Fristch and Hannan) who can contribute straight away, while also looking to add a good, young player as well.

What we cannot do is forget the month prior to yesterday's game.  We won two hotly contested finals in front of 90,000 people and did so while playing some ripping footy.  That is what I hang my hate on.  The Eagles mugged us yesterday and we had no answer for it - we need to get better in this regard for sure, but like Round 23 last year, we've shown we can grow and learn from those experiences.  Yesterday will not be any different.

[Sir Why You Little 34,420]

4 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Ok Wise you are generally positive and I will now go into positive mode. 

We are better than at any time in the last 12 years. We have some real talent. We have seen that we can play finals, certainly at the G, where earlier this year we were doubting ourselves.

Going forward we need to identify areas of improvement.

Gawn was done and Preuss would help him no end. Get him. 

Run and carry is needed. Hopefully Hunt gets back to his best.Maybe Baker can improve. Bring in some run and carry. 

Skill. Identify those without required level and move them on. Still look for contested players and outside players but identify skill as a major requirement.

Pace. Look to improve in that area as well but still with the skill requirement.

Try and find another Jeffy type. 

Cone back next year with real hunger. 

Very fair summation Red. Lot of work to be done this summer

[Fork 'em 6,507]

A collingwood supporter clown at work has been telling me for weeks that he'd had a premonition and it was gonna be Melbourne/Collingwood GF, ........  "And we're gonna break ya hearts."

Well we showed him.
We broke our own hearts.
As usual. 

[Sir Why You Little 34,420]

3 minutes ago, america de cali said:

You don’t think the players watched Friday nights game and some of them might have exclaimed “[censored]” or “holy shyte? The job suddenly became too hard. 

I think it is a bit of both adc. You and Red are both right. 

I cerainly wanted to play Richmond rather than the Filth, even though beating the Filth would be glorious

[picket fence 15,060]

7 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

You just don’t want to acknowledge facts. 

I really don’t care. 

I feel so sorry for all our diehard members and supporters who spent $1,000’s of dollars trecking across the country to witness such a soulless and pathetic game yesterday. 

0 goals at halftime is the story. 

YEP YEP AND YEP

Improved? yes BUT realities of AFL Footy is Premierships and we again have found new ways of torturing supporters.

0 GOALS to half time, heartless spineless footy.

Massive fail!

Cleanout needed and as mentioned club needs to make calls on many who just aren't up to it!

Lewis for a start needs to go!

[John Crow Batty 8,226]

4 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I think it is a bit of both adc. You and Red are both right. 

I cerainly wanted to play Richmond rather than the Filth, even though beating the Filth would be glorious

We didn’t turn against the filth on arguably our biggest game of 2017, R23 and our big marquee game of 2018, QB and in red hot form after winning six in a row. Seeing them demolish Richmond like they did to us twice would have been disturbing. They saw the bone pointed at them. 

Edited September 23, 2018 by america de cali

[pitmaster 3,054]

6 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Jesus Christ.

Everyone, you've been warned.  SWYL is going to go on about this for six months.  He will find any way he can to push this agenda in any thread he can get his mits on.  

To the others, I'm looking forward to thoughtful, insightful discussion on the club moving forward that doesn't go round and round in circles.

While it's unfair to lay into any one individual when the team effort was so poor yesterday showed us that Lewis is almost finished. His lack of discipline - thumping an opponent off the ball while the ball is in our possession near the opponent's goal is so monumentally dumb it is beyond words - and then his feeble misdirected handpass that sets up an early goal for them, and his lack of run says he should serve out his final year as part of the coaching panel. If he is on the field for more than half a dozen games I'll be surprised.

Tyson, plenty of others have marked his papers and I am not one to disagree. Trade if anyone bites, otherwise depth only.

For the off-season - Spargo into the gym to put some strength into his legs so he can kick beyond 30 metres, Max to kicking class - it's appalling that he replicated his Geelong miss yesterday, and how about a new team rule that allows players to take a shot themselves when they are running directly towards goal, rather than attempting a dinky 20 metre pass to a team mate with two opponents? I mean really, that has to be a rule? FMD. 

Recruit, either draft or trade, for some outside run. Our inside game is great when our heads are in the contest but we need to bring some dash. Maybe Hunt can be developed to bring that but it is our greatest need.

The shame of yesterday is that we embarrassed ourselves and this is what will be remembered. Brayshaw was terrible and Petracca well below his best but they will improve. There is plenty to be positive about. The Weid next year will be less weed-like after another preseason. He was simply forced out of contests yesterday and monstered by men with very mature bodies. J Smith will get better. I was impressed that he stuck at his game after being moved forward.

Clarry, Angus, Trac, Salem, TMac, Hoges, Lever, Max and Jack make up a powerful and youthful core that should be with us for a minimum five years barring mishaps. There is plenty to take out of this year and like WB, I don't have time for whining about 'we've had 54 years of this' the way some do on this site.

Because for 20 years (1987-2006) we consistently made finals. Right now we have a group that's potentially better than anything we have seen in that period. It's not the time to focus on yesterday, but to learn from it.

 

[Sir Why You Little 34,420]

1 minute ago, picket fence said:

YEP YEP AND YEP

Improved? yes BUT realities of AFL Footy is Premierships and we again have found new ways of torturing supporters.

0 GOALS to half time, heartless spineless footy.

Massive fail!

Cleanout needed and as mentioned club needs to make calls on many who just aren't up to it!

Lewis for a start needs to go!

Yes. Making finals and winning them is what it is all about. The previous 2 weeks showed us all what is at stake  

Where was our leadership yesterday? It was absent the entire first half, i don’t care about the second half, it was junk time. 

Savage recruiting must continue 

[Sir Why You Little 34,420]

2 minutes ago, america de cali said:

We didn’t turn against the filth on arguably our biggest game of 2017, R23 and our big marquee game of 2018, QB and in red hot form after winning six in a row. Seeing them demolish Richmond like they did to us twice would have been disturbing. They saw the bone pointed at them. 

Sure i agree, but i also agree with what Red posted. 

Our leaders shat themselves yesterday  and the rest had no idea hat to do. 

So Melbourne....

[Redleg 37,479]

16 minutes ago, america de cali said:

You don’t think the players watched Friday nights game and some of them might have exclaimed “[censored]” or “holy shyte? The job suddenly became too hard. 

Absolutely not. 

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

2019 should be Jones' last year.  He's just about finished.  I know he'd like to play for another 4-5 years, but next year should be his last.

Tyson has to go.  He's been pushed to the outside and simply isn't good enough there.

Lewis is finished.

Frost and Oscar were comical.  And I wouldn't play Lever and Frost in the same team.

We lack composure and class through the midfield and flanks.  Imo, organic growth won't be enough to go to the next step.

I doubt I've seen more fumbling and players falling over in my time watching footy.

It's been a very good year, but there should be career ramifications for that performance.

Tyson played exactly as expected.

Fritsch adds composure and class to the flanks.

[picket fence 15,060]

6 minutes ago, pitmaster said:

While it's unfair to lay into any one individual when the team effort was so poor yesterday showed us that Lewis is almost finished. His lack of discipline - thumping an opponent off the ball while the ball is in our possession near the opponent's goal is so monumentally dumb it is beyond words - and then his feeble misdirected handpass that sets up an early goal for them, and his lack of run says he should serve out his final year as part of the coaching panel. If he is on the field for more than half a dozen games I'll be surprised.

Tyson, plenty of others have marked his papers and I am not one to disagree. Trade if anyone bites, otherwise depth only.

For the off-season - Spargo into the gym to put some strength into his legs so he can kick beyond 30 metres, Max to kicking class - it's appalling that he replicated his Geelong miss yesterday, and how about a new team rule that allows players to take a shot themselves when they are running directly towards goal, rather than attempting a dinky 20 metre pass to a team mate with two opponents? I mean really, that has to be a rule? FMD. 

Recruit, either draft or trade, for some outside run. Our inside game is great when our heads are in the contest but we need to bring some dash. Maybe Hunt can be developed to bring that but it is our greatest need.

The shame of yesterday is that we embarrassed ourselves and this is what will be remembered. Brayshaw was terrible and Petracca well below his best but they will improve. There is plenty to be positive about. The Weid next year will be less weed-like after another preseason. He was simply forced out of contests yesterday and monstered by men with very mature bodies. J Smith will get better. I was impressed that he stuck at his game after being moved forward.

Clarry, Angus, Trac, Salem, TMac, Hoges, Lever, Max and Jack make up a powerful and youthful core that should be with us for a minimum five years barring mishaps. There is plenty to take out of this year and like WB, I don't have time for whining about 'we've had 54 years of this' the way some do on this site.

Because for 20 years (1987-2006) we consistently made finals. Right now we have a group that's potentially better than anything we have seen in that period. It's not the time to focus on yesterday, but to learn from it.

 

Hunt will be at Carlton next year if my mail is correct!

[titan_uranus 22,220]

3 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Is it really nonsense though to highlight that 'impressive' stat ?

It's all about context.

Olisik almost never posts anything positive and only pops up to pot players. So, when he does it, people get frustrated.

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

2019 should be Jones' last year.  He's just about finished.  I know he'd like to play for another 4-5 years, but next year should be his last.

Tyson has to go.  He's been pushed to the outside and simply isn't good enough there.

Lewis is finished.

Frost and Oscar were comical.  And I wouldn't play Lever and Frost in the same team.

We lack composure and class through the midfield and flanks.  Imo, organic growth won't be enough to go to the next step.

I doubt I've seen more fumbling and players falling over in my time watching footy.

It's been a very good year, but there should be career ramifications for that performance.

For what reason?

Do we go with two key defenders plus Lever? 

29 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Jesus Christ.

Everyone, you've been warned.  SWYL is going to go on about this for six months.  He will find any way he can to push this agenda in any thread he can get his mits on.  

To the others, I'm looking forward to thoughtful, insightful discussion on the club moving forward that doesn't go round and round in circles.

He may as well start every post between now and Round 1 with "0 goals to half time in a preliminary final". Feels like he's written that in every post so far.

24 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Some suggest I'm negative. Actually I'm pretty positive ..... that it's 54 and counting.

Only ONE team will truly achieve anything this year. It ain't us.

As others opine..some hard/harsh decisions ahead.

There we go.

I was wondering how long it would take for your "we lost therefore we failed" attitude to return.

What sort of hard/harsh decisions do you mean? Sack half the side? Sack Goodwin? Or do you mean Lewis, Jones and Tyson (all of whom would have been looked at post-2018 even if we'd won the flag)?

[titan_uranus 22,220]

3 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Tyson played exactly as expected.

Fritsch adds composure and class to the flanks.

I was with you all week on this, but time to let it go, Clint.

Fritsch over Tyson yesterday would only, at best, have made a tiny difference, and not to the overall outcome.

Can't wait to see him back on a flank or wing next year though, with a full pre-season.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

2 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

He may as well start every post between now and Round 1 with "0 goals to half time in a preliminary final". Feels like he's written that in every post so far.

I'm thinking of keeping a tally.

I'm predicting he'll hit triple figures before Christmas.

[Redleg 37,479]

5 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Hunt will be at Carlton next year if my mail is correct!

I hope not. The only real pace we have. 

[Fork 'em 6,507]

11 minutes ago, pitmaster said:

 

The shame of yesterday is that we embarrassed ourselves and this is what will be remembered.  

 

Correct.

Reputations are made in finals.
And we reinforced our reputation as mentally and physically weak under real pressure.