Sports Psychology

[billyblanks29 184]

So much of a teams success is between the ears. Do we have a sports psychologist at the club? Do we need one?

Jordan Lewis spoke about some players dropping their heads & getting deflated when things weren't going our way in the 1st quarter, with all the missed goals etc.

There was a book written about the most successful US College Basketball & NFL teams/coaches called Think Like a Warrior. The 4 core mental attitudes applied were:

1. I focus on only the things I have total control over: my effort and my attitude.

2. I love what I do and I attack each day with joy & enthusiasm

3. I dream big & ignore the naysayers

4. I am relentless & will never give up. Giving up is a choice winner's don't take.

Another quote from the book:

"What does it mean to have a warrior's mindset? It means that we go into battles knowing that sometimes we will win and sometimes we will lose. But regardless of the outcome, a warrior never, every gives up or backs down from the next fight. A warrior never quits. A warrior must make the decision that no matter what challenge he is currently facing or what setback he just went through, he is going to charge ahead again and again with reckless abandon. It doesn't matter how many times the warrior gets knocked down, he will always get back up. Again and again."

Would this help our players?

 

 

[Engorged Onion 9,255]

They’ve had one for a few years - not sure what capacity per se - David Williams.

[SFebes 4,692]

Do we still have League Teams involved?

[Demonstone 19,084]

No, I'm afraid that Jack. Louie and Bob have all left us now.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,154]

I think what a lot of people have commented on after our defeats this year is that we don’t seem to be ‘hurting enough’ and that the players and coaches seem to get over it and move on too quickly.  Even this week there have been posters objecting to the positive spin that players have been putting on our loss to Sydney.  This is clearly sports psychology at work.

The players have obviously been trained, for the public face anyway, to not get down on themselves and stew on the negatives.

[Sir Why You Little 34,430]

Could be very useful at this point of development, if it isn’t already being used. 

The team has skills, but is far from being instinctive, which the good teams always are. 

[buck_nekkid 5,466]

3 hours ago, billyblanks29 said:

 

1. I focus on only the things I have total control over: my effort and my attitude.

2. I love what I do and I attack each day with joy & enthusiasm

3. I dream big & ignore the naysayers

4. I am relentless & will never give up. Giving up is a choice winner's don't take.

 

 

 

A response:

1.  Valuable, but there is a role to influence the actions of others as well as what you directly control.  The missing part is what to focus on to drive performance, and what hinders it.

2.  Ok, except this is only possible with lobotomy.  A person needs to develop the skills to perform even when it is a grind, and get a job done.  

3. Rubbish.  You need to listen to all inputs and have a suitable strategy for determining what is realistic and valuable.  If we only listen to yes men, we don’t get better.  Criticism is valuable... when it is valuable.

4.  Knowing when to give up and when not to is an important skill.  Should Hogan have played on after he fractured his foot?  Should we stick with a structure that doesn’t work, or should we change.

 

these mantras are not always as helpful as they seem on first pass.  Developing powerful cognitive skills is better than rah rah bathwater drinking.  A good sports psychologist would help with this, though.

[—coach— 3,466]

1 hour ago, MSFebey said:

Do we still have League Teams involved?

Do you mean Leading Teams?

https://www.leadingteams.net.au/

If so, I don’t hunk they are involved.

Roos used them at Sydney for ages, Hawks as well. Don’t think we used them as much.

[SFebes 4,692]

1 minute ago, —coach— said:

Do you mean Leading Teams?

https://www.leadingteams.net.au/

If so, I don’t hunk they are involved.

Roos used them at Sydney for ages, Hawks as well. Don’t think we used them as much.

Yes sorry, typo. We were using them when Roos was here but haven't heard much since. Thanks

[—coach— 3,466]

Here is a list of our staff for those interested:

http://m.melbournefc.com.au/club/people/staff-members

As per Danelska’s reply above, David Williams is our sports psych.

 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,394]

I'm in favour of the club replacing the free scarf with every membership with a 30 minute session with a sports psychologist to help me cope with the footy season.

[billyblanks29 184]

1 hour ago, buck_nekkid said:

A response:

1.  Valuable, but there is a role to influence the actions of others as well as what you directly control.  The missing part is what to focus on to drive performance, and what hinders it.

2.  Ok, except this is only possible with lobotomy.  A person needs to develop the skills to perform even when it is a grind, and get a job done.  

3. Rubbish.  You need to listen to all inputs and have a suitable strategy for determining what is realistic and valuable.  If we only listen to yes men, we don’t get better.  Criticism is valuable... when it is valuable.

4.  Knowing when to give up and when not to is an important skill.  Should Hogan have played on after he fractured his foot?  Should we stick with a structure that doesn’t work, or should we change.

 

these mantras are not always as helpful as they seem on first pass.  Developing powerful cognitive skills is better than rah rah bathwater drinking.  A good sports psychologist would help with this, though.

I think point 3 is about dreaming big, ie. "We believe we can win the 2018 premiership" vs. "Lets aim to make finals". Not sure the players are encouraged to think about the former, taken by the whole 'one week at a time' mantra you hear.

[Mazer Rackham 14,969]

1 hour ago, buck_nekkid said:

these mantras are not always as helpful as they seem on first pass.  Developing powerful cognitive skills is better than rah rah bathwater drinking.  A good sports psychologist would help with this, though.

Yes! This American style "pep talk" motivation is long on "rah rah" and short on the concrete things you need to do to actually achieve eg focus and the mental discipline to control attitude.

 

4 hours ago, billyblanks29 said:

"What does it mean to have a warrior's mindset? It means that we go into battles knowing that sometimes we will win and sometimes we will lose. But regardless of the outcome, a warrior never, every gives up or backs down from the next fight. A warrior never quits. A warrior must make the decision that no matter what challenge he is currently facing or what setback he just went through, he is going to charge ahead again and again with reckless abandon. It doesn't matter how many times the warrior gets knocked down, he will always get back up. Again and again.

It's entirely possible that every MFC player never gives up, to faces every challenge, etc etc, and we still lose. And then next match, get back up, face every challenge, etc, and lose again.

Having the warrior mindset is one thing. It's a step in the right direction but does not necessarily enhance your chances of victory.

[Engorged Onion 9,255]

the psychs role is far more forensic than what is written in that book @billyblanks29, and I am not meaning to be condescending.

The role is to remove psych barriers that impinge on performance (not give more 'skills') - moreso, helping the athlete be task focused, not when it's easy, but when it is difficult - helping the athlete (and coaches) not get caught up in their stuff (ie: mindfulness and self reflection) helps them in game moments, when the chatter gets loud and they go into safety behaviours (which removes discomfort, but doesnt help outcomes).

the problem is the need to feel good when executing task - vs the reality of high pressure sport which is highly uncomfortable.

One example would be goal kicking: 

Thought = "dont want to miss this"

action = tighten up on goal kicking action ...stab at a ball

short term relief = feel vaugley less stressed while kicking it

outcome = more likely to miss 

vs

being accepting that your head will say 

Thought = "dont want to miss this"

action = have the discomfort and kick fully through it anyway (the self reflection and mindful part)

outcome = get the goal

mood/confidence/vibe, whatever you want to call it - increases

= make it easier next time

 

[Supermercado 2,609]

Heard a talk by the Richmond mindfulness guru/coach/adviser/whatever. The position sounds like the biggest wankfest ever but it was a really interesting conversation about unlocking mental barriers and helping people play without fear or worry. The main case study was Dustin Martin, who it was implied is dumb as a post but got right into this stuff just when his career started to go through the roof. Many other players jumped on board after.

I'm glad we have a psych in some capacity now, because we certainly didn't at least 2011-2013 when it might have come in handy. Will never forget the crisis meeting they had in 2012 when I asked Neeld if we had a sports psych or similar to help players deal with the trauma of being thrashed every week and he said it wasn't necessary because if any players felt stressed they could talk to a coach. What a putz.

[DEE fence 4,448]

I really was hoping this post contained information to help me cope with Sunday, took ne 4 days to log onto the site.

[deebug 1,754]

You could also add some hypnotherapy before each game, at this stage i'm willing to try any thing.

[Chook 14,460]

55 minutes ago, Supermercado said:

Heard a talk by the Richmond mindfulness guru/coach/adviser/whatever. The position sounds like the biggest wankfest ever but it was a really interesting conversation about unlocking mental barriers and helping people play without fear or worry. The main case study was Dustin Martin, who it was implied is dumb as a post but got right into this stuff just when his career started to go through the roof. Many other players jumped on board after.

I'm glad we have a psych in some capacity now, because we certainly didn't at least 2011-2013 when it might have come in handy. Will never forget the crisis meeting they had in 2012 when I asked Neeld if we had a sports psych or similar to help players deal with the trauma of being thrashed every week and he said it wasn't necessary because if any players felt stressed they could talk to a coach. What a putz.

Slamming mindfulness, Dusty, and Mark Neeld.

I admire your deadly wit, but you're not going after any sacred cows there!

[Supermercado 2,609]

32 minutes ago, Chook said:

Slamming mindfulness, Dusty, and Mark Neeld.

I admire your deadly wit, but you're not going after any sacred cows there!

Hey, I'm down for the mindfulness - I just concede that it sounds like bollocks at first.

Which was the opposite to Neeld, who sounded like a good idea and turned out to be bollocks.

[deanox 8,565]

It's pretty common in elite sport these days. 

 

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/turning-point/201509/champion-novak-djokovic-reveals-the-power-visualization
 

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-05/athletes-use-meditation-and-mindfulness-to-give-them-edge/8326004

[Roger Mellie 3,487]

17 hours ago, —coach— said:

Do you mean Leading Teams?

https://www.leadingteams.net.au/

If so, I don’t hunk they are involved.

Roos used them at Sydney for ages, Hawks as well. Don’t think we used them as much.

Interestingly, Jim Plunkett, who is now at the club, came from Leading Teams

[SFebes 4,692]

3 minutes ago, Roger Mellie said:

Interestingly, Jim Plunkett, who is now at the club, came from Leading Teams

Doesn't he play cricket for England?

[layzie 28,682]

They should include Psychology sessions in the membership.

Sorry couldn't help it, never gets old! 

[Fork 'em 6,507]

Pretty sure Roosys missus was giving them all cuddles early in his tenure.
Probably due for some more considering pre-season boot camps are out of the question.

 

 

Edited August 17, 2018 by Fork 'em

[Dee Zephyr 17,413]

Came across this article. Jeff Bond explains a little about the psychology with us. Does this sound about right to anyone with knowledge in this field?

 

https://apple.news/AJNXbhJ1-SZew3ancWW8nSA

Edited August 17, 2018 by Dee Zephyr