Farewell Jesse Hogan

[Moonshadow 16,115]

20 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Which part is hyperbole?  The cold, hard stats or that I'm worried for some of our supporter base?

You could make an argument that every player has a price.  If someone went overboard and offered ridiculous amounts for Oliver then the club would still consider it.  

But you don't trade 23 year old key forwards that have just kicked 50 goals in a season.  

Okay, if he gives a hint to the club that he wants out then you consider it, but right now he's going nowhere.

That part I agree with.

[Jaded No More 57,674]

I'm as [censored] as anyone about our constant failure to deliver under pressure and be a successful club, but trading a young gun KPF is literally the worst solution to our problems. 

Hogan is performing as well if not better than also any forward his age, both currently and historically. 

We need to look at making our list better, not worse. I want to know who everyone thinks we could realistically get for Hogan in a trade, who would categorically make us a better team. 

I am open to suggestions. 

Edited August 13, 2018 by Jaded

[Older demon 2,166]

Hogan has a lot of improvement still in him and every other club would offer a trade for him. Talk of trade is nonsense as we don't have enough A listers or key position players now.

We need to replace Jones, Vince and Lewis in the next 2 years as well as a backup for Max. Trading Hogan out for their replacements will yield nothing. Gaff is a RFA and will come to us if the Eagles don't match his offer.

[Moonshadow 16,115]

38 minutes ago, Philthy said:

FFS, some you clowns need to lay of the Kool-Aid. If we kick 12.16 yesterday instead of 10.18, 99.9% of you wouldn’t be saying to trade Hoges.  Get a grip! He is clearly playing injured, so instead of the trade Hogan BS, Maybe you start asking questions of Simon Goodwin!

And if my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle.

Playing injured us no excuse once the white line is crossed. If injured, rest him and play someone else.

Clearly I'm not as wedded to keeping Hogan as some on here. I'd prefer to retain him, but if the price is right and he is having 2nd thoughts, let's do it.

For this season, I'm more worried about the long bombs i50 and our inability to convert set shots.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Moonshadow

[Deespicable 2,538]

1 minute ago, Older demon said:

Hogan has a lot of improvement still in him and every other club would offer a trade for him. Talk of trade is nonsense as we don't have enough A listers or key position players now.

We need to replace Jones, Vince and Lewis in the next 2 years as well as a backup for Max. Trading Hogan out for their replacements will yield nothing. Gaff is a RFA and will come to us if the Eagles don't match his offer.

Thanks older Demon but we actually do have A-listers now - Gawn, Oliver, Viney and Brayshaw and Salem heading that way.

We also already have replacements for those three players.

Lewis - Salem has already taken on the role and made him expendable.

Vince - Take your pick out of several defenders who play tight and uncomprising footy like Bernie used to until he started losing a bit of pace - Smith is my favourite of the new breed though.

Jones - he's already been moved out of our midfield core. I'd like to see him play the Jarrad McVeigh role next year.

Agree with you though that it is a big call to move out Hoges, but sometimes as we saw with Wattsy last year, it needs to be done and in Hoges' case it's not just because of what he displays on the field. 

 

 

[Dee tention 611]

You don’t trade away key position forwards especially ones who can work up the ground as a midfielder. You work with them and the team.

The Dees glaring problem is team structure when moving the ball and delivery into the forward line. We are very poor by foot! Our forward 50 entries compare with the Bombers of 2000. But most are poor entries or lack of forward structure to keep it in and score.

The Dees priority needs be Gaff and another elite kick. We have too many hack kicks in the side. You just have too watch yesterdays game. 

No wonder Henney is in contention for Mark of the Year when have poor kicks sitting on top of Jessie’s head! 

Jones kick inside 50 in the last is a prime example. Two Dees players by themselves but his kick misses them both and straight to a Sydney player. 

Priority should be;

- Gaff

- another elite kick and runner

- seasoned ruckman/forward (Roughead)

 

 

 

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Just now, Dee tention said:

You don’t trade away key position forwards especially ones who can work up the ground as a midfielder. You work with them and the team.

Spot on.

Hogan isn't helped by our obsession with just bombing the ball in long either.  He's better when we move it quick so he can play one out, or lead up to the ball.  Dropping it on his head constantly so they defenders can converge on him doesn't help his cause, which is what we are much more guilty of against the better sides.

[rpfc 27,391]

There is no negative emoji to put onto posts so I will say this:

Those that want to trade Hogan are betraying their lack of footy knowledge and intelligence. And they are also revealing they don’t know what ‘drives’ football clubs. 

Hogan playing hurt for the team must give a little bit extra for the players and he has my appreciation and admiration as a supporter. 

He was also in the discussion for AA earlier in the year.

Beggars belief some of your neuroses, Land.

Edited August 13, 2018 by rpfc

[Superunknown 3,307]

1 hour ago, Jaded said:

Jack Reiwoldt says hello

Just because Jack changed does not mean Hogan will.

[jackaub 1,402]

Why does Goodwin insist on playing two slow pokes on the wings

If they are no good inside, dont play them. Jones and Tyson on the wings is a real weakness that good teams exploit

[Bossdog 2,002]

Wow      

Yeah, lets trade a key position strong forward who is 23 years old with a great future before him for 3 raw kids

Great idea

Thank god some of you are nowhere near the list management of the club

[Philthy 284]

30 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

And if my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle.

Playing injured us no excuse once the white line is crossed. If injured, rest him and play someone else.

Clearly I'm not as wedded to keeping Hogan as some on here. I'd prefer to retain him, but if the price is right and he is having 2nd thoughts, let's do it.

For this season, I'm more worried about the long bombs i50 and our inability to convert set shots.

Kind of proves my point re:Goodwin. He selects the team, why risk Hogan if he cant fire? 

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,851]

Who’s mentioned trading purely for picks, we should be targeting a ready made player and on trade those picks. 

[Red But Mostly Blue 3,612]

This thread is madness.

Hoges has a great first half of the year, some not so great games (by goal standards) but still great input further up the ground (I think that element of his game has been welcome, and will only be an asset)... and there's a contingent who want to jump at (maybe) 3 UNKNOWNS? And this is the same crowd that wants results NOW?

I don't understand this club's fans sometimes. Hoges is brimming with talent, he's struggling a little now (most likely injured), but even if he wasn't, we stick with him and make good! There is going to be a very quiet little group of people when Hoges becomes a core part of this team when it wins premierships!

It looks far off now, and I'm still angry about yesterday, but WE WILL GET THERE. And at most certainly will not achieve success by getting rid of superstars who don't perform for a few weeks.

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,851]

42 minutes ago, Jaded said:

I'm as [censored] as anyone about our constant failure to deliver under pressure and be a successful club, but trading a young gun KPF is literally the worst solution to our problems. 

Hogan is performing as well if not better than also any forward his age, both currently and historically. 

We need to look at making our list better, not worse. I want to know who everyone thinks we could realistically get for Hogan in a trade, who would categorically make us a better team. 

I am open to suggestions. 

Players will ultimately be judged in the big games, so right now Hogan is not a gun. 

As for suggestions we should be bold, target one of the Giants gun mids, we don’t need more picks. Any picks would go straight to the Giants. Then as I’ve mentioned earlier target a Peter Wright who is from Melbourne and was out of favour earlier in the year. He could play fwd and chop out Gawn in the ruck leaving TMac to play permanently as our deepest fwd.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

3 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Who’s mentioned trading purely for picks, we should be targeting a ready made player and on trade those picks. 

Who is this ready made player, who is actually available, that will improve us going forward?

Who is going to cover the 50 odd goals that Hogan has kicked for us this year?

I look forward to your suggestions.  Remember, I'd like to see players who will actually be available and that we need to trade for.  Gaff doesn't count because we can get him without trading.

[Philthy 284]

1 minute ago, RedButMostlyBlue said:

This thread is madness.

Hoges has a great first half of the year, some not so great games (by goal standards) but still great input further up the ground (I think that element of his game has been welcome, and will only be an asset)... and there's a contingent who want to jump at (maybe) 3 UNKNOWNS? And this is the same crowd that wants results NOW?

I don't understand this club's fans sometimes. Hoges is brimming with talent, he's struggling a little now (most likely injured), but even if he wasn't, we stick with him and make good! There is going to be a very quiet little group of people when Hoges becomes a core part of this team when it wins premierships!

It looks far off now, and I'm still angry about yesterday, but WE WILL GET THERE. And at most certainly will not achieve success by getting rid of superstars who don't perform for a few weeks.

Exactly! Lot of blokes will be eating humble pie realllllll soon!

[Red But Mostly Blue 3,612]

1 minute ago, Wiseblood said:

Who is this ready made player, who is actually available, that will improve us going forward?

Who is going to cover the 50 odd goals that Hogan has kicked for us this year?

I look forward to your suggestions.  Remember, I'd like to see players who will actually be available and that we need to trade for.  Gaff doesn't count because we can get him without trading.

THIS.

I love the crew that pushes for an ousting, then expects some untested kids to do his job. With no proof that they'll actually do it.

[DV8 2,271]

17 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

worth a discussion if you think we can cover his goal scoring ability with Weideman and improved mid field kicking.

So what do we get in his place. Two first round picks ... I like the idea but we all know it's a lottery. We also save a lot of money that allows us to go after Gaff.  and whitfield

Assuming you go for a trade or an ontrade of the two picks who do you trade for.

I'm neutral but I would be disappointed if the list committee wasn't doing the SWOT analysis.

You have to look at where we have trade currency and Hogan is where it's at.

 

Someone like a Lachie Neale.

We need some like this for the 'G'.

 

We have to trade for it, or draft it. but we need it.

[Jaded No More 57,674]

37 minutes ago, -Ⓥ- said:

Just because Jack changed does not mean Hogan will.

Sure, but some people place far too much importance on the body language of a 22 year old. Imagine if Richmond went "Reiwoldt is a sook, trade him". 

To be honest, if you went through what he went through last year, you'd be sulking too. It's bloody human nature. And I thought he was very passionate and worked very hard yesterday, even when hampered by the ankle. He missed a few easy shots on goal, but so did Tmac. Should we trade him too?

His body language has improved dramatically and it stands to reason that as he matures, so will his demeanour.

Again, I want to know who people think we can trade for him that will make us BETTER. Peter Wright has kicked 59 goals since 2015. Hogan has 47 goals this year alone. Please lets not make our list worst. 

[DV8 2,271]

44 minutes ago, -Ⓥ- said:

Just because Jack changed does not mean Hogan will.

Hogan would have to shed Kilo's to do a Jack Riewoldt, and jack was already more nimble than Jesse is.

[What 18,810]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-08-13/demon-hogan-set-for-scans-on-foot-injury

 

Thankfully we have a superb record with foot/toe injuries, so everything should be just fine!

[Bossdog 2,002]

20 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Who’s mentioned trading purely for picks, we should be targeting a ready made player and on trade those picks. 

Who do you think will replace a 195cm 100kg KPF, 23 year old who has kicked 153 goals (47 this year) and plays all over the ground?     He kicked 1.3 yesterday and you want to trade him????

[Tim 2,785]

2 minutes ago, DV8 said:

Hogan would have to shed Kilo's to do a Jack Riewoldt, and jack was already more nimble than Jesse is.

Big call, champ.

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,851]

9 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Who is this ready made player, who is actually available, that will improve us going forward?

Who is going to cover the 50 odd goals that Hogan has kicked for us this year?

I look forward to your suggestions.  Remember, I'd like to see players who will actually be available and that we need to trade for.  Gaff doesn't count because we can get him without trading.

I just posted earlier to Jaded, I would target a Giants mid, maybe a Cognilio (24 years old) or Whitfield (24 years old) or Shiel (25) Kelly (23) doesn’t matter if they’re in contact because as we know they can be broken. Giants get the picks from the Hogan trade allowing them to attack the draft again for top end talent. Giants still have Scully, Ward amongst others, if the price was right we might be able to squeeze one out. 

 

Then for Peter Wright we could trade fringe players/ 2nd round picks. Would Peter Wright kick 50 goals, probably not, but with another gun mid he could get 30-35 as well as playing ruck. But on the flip side we leave TMac at FF and he could get anywhere between 60-70. 

If these scenarios or something couldn’t happen I wouldn’t trade Hogan purely for picks that we keep.