POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 21

[Binmans PA 25,897]

15 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

I'm dirty on this loss, but I'll let the rest of the usual suspects lose the plot, slash their wrists and do the usual ranting and raving.  Seriously, go right ahead.

We lost this game today in front of goal.  Sure, they cut us up during periods of the game with their use by foot and our willingness to allow them space.  But we should never have let them win this game of footy.  When Hogan goaled and we were 3.7 it should have been 7.3, as we missed a slew of easy shots.  If we were 6 goals up then they would have been dead and buried.  But they weren't, they got a sniff and, as experienced sides do, they made their chances count when we didn't and we couldn't haul them back.

I must admit that I was bemused at times by some of our decision making, and the implied pressure of the Swans meant that we rushed things at times when we didn't need to.  We had every opportunity to win this game of footy, but we didn't make it count, and that's down to composure and skill execution under pressure.  It's not down to leadership and all that stuff.  We just didn't execute well under pressure.

We certainly lacked some class at times and too many players went missing, but this isn't the end of the world.  Seriously, it's not.  We've got two games to go - win one and we're in.  Simple as that.

There are similarities between all our loses at the MCG against good opposition this year. They've actually been almost carbon copies.

1) we've dominated games early but have squandered our dominance in front of goal (Hawthorn, Richmond and now Sydney).

2) given up really easy stoppage goals and failed to arrest the momentum by creating or taking chances.

3) we've allowed the opposition (Geelong, Hawthorn, Richmond and Sydney) easy exits out of their back half. All of those teams have followed the same exit strategy. Short chip to an unmarked player in the pocket and then another chip to fifty and handballed out or kicked long to the boundary and reset. That we haven't been able to prevent this or put anything in place to stop this is staggering. You could see it was a problem with our forward zonal set up literally an hour into our Round 1 game. 

So whilst Goody and his coaching staff aren't responsible for our players choking in front of goal, they are culpable for failing to address issues in our system that have been present all year.

I'm not going to highlight any one players performance, but for me, we've not only thrown away a top 4 spot, but we've most likely thrown away our finals chance.

[Jones 62]

I love Nathan Jones, always have and always will.

But his game yesterday was uninspiring and horrible from a captain.

Where was his leadership? Majority of the time he was jogging around looking half assed with his head down.

No leadership, no urgency, no hunger from the captain! Showing it in the last 15mins of the game is not enough.

This game could have had us cemented in finals and we got nothing from the captain or playing group.

An absolute disgrace.

[Engorged Onion 9,239]

I'm still comfortable we will beat West Coast over there...

[Die Hard Demon 1,152]

There are too many players that rely on the Oliver's, the Jones', the Brayshaw's, the Gawn's of this world to get the team over the line in crunch games.. 

Garlett – 21 disposals, 2 goals, 3 behinds, 4 tackles against Gold Coast ..

And this week?
10 disposals, 1 goal, 1 behind, ZERO tackles...  Thats just one example of a typical down hill skier – we had lots of them on the weekend. 

We simply just do not have the buy in from all 22 players out there in crunch games to be a successful side. We are NOT less talented than the top sides. We are NOT too young. We do have too many mentally weak players who just expect the "guns" to drag the team over the line in the crunch games. 

Until we get a 22 player buy in on a weekly basis like the Richmonds of this comp.. We will ALWAYS be middle of the road. 

[Die Hard Demon 1,152]

14 minutes ago, Jones said:

I love Nathan Jones, always have and always will.

But his game yesterday was uninspiring and horrible from a captain.

Where was his leadership? Majority of the time he was jogging around looking half assed with his head down.

No leadership, no urgency, no hunger from the captain! Showing it in the last 15mins of the game is not enough.

This game could have had us cemented in finals and we got nothing from the captain or playing group.

An absolute disgrace.

ridiculous post .. last time i checked, it took 22 players to win a game of footy. As far as i'm concerned there were a plethora of passengers yesterday. We are never going to be a good side if we continue to rely on the Jones' to win games of footy off their own boot. TBH he looked exhausted because he was one of the few that was throwing himself at the footy during the first 3 quarters. 

[Lucifers Hero 36,983]

48 minutes ago, Jones said:

I love Nathan Jones, always have and always will.

But his game yesterday was uninspiring and horrible from a captain.

Where was his leadership? Majority of the time he was jogging around looking half assed with his head down.

No leadership, no urgency, no hunger from the captain! Showing it in the last 15mins of the game is not enough.

This game could have had us cemented in finals and we got nothing from the captain or playing group.

An absolute disgrace.

Maybe he was tired from attending Jake Lever's engagement party the night before...

...which is weird by Lever as he proposed to his bride to be on his O/S trip after last year's GF.  He could have chosen a better day to involve his teammates.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Lucifer's Hero

[Superunknown 3,307]

55 minutes ago, drdrake said:

Plain and simple, when teams get a run on us we cant stop them.  So many games sides have kicked 5+ unanswered goals against us and we just cant stop them.  Our on field leaders need to step up when that happens and we just don't have any, Goodwin and the coaches can't change the flow of the game until we get our players at a break.

Just garbage, plain and simple we had a chance to secure a top 8 spot and we delivered garbage

How many times have we had a run against us like that this year? Let's say more than 4 goals (I'd prefer to look at 5-6+).

Hawks.

Pies?

Swans.

Any others?

(Serious q, not being smart.)

[Superunknown 3,307]

2 hours ago, Jaded said:

Makes me so sad for Fritsch. He must love his teammates 

That;s an indictment on Frost. He appeared to be looking right at him. Sorry, but that demanded a response.

[Lucifers Hero 36,983]

8 minutes ago, -Ⓥ- said:

How many times have we had a run against us like that this year? Let's say more than 4 goals (I'd prefer to look at 5-6+).

Hawks.

Pies?

Swans.

Any others?

(Serious q, not being smart.)

Off the top of my head:

• Geelong * 2
• Saints
• North
• Richmond

Can't be bothered looking for others but I'm sure there are.

 

[Wiseblood 24,636]

37 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Maybe he was tired from attending Jake Lever's engagement party the night before...

...which is weird by Lever as he proposed to his bride to be on his O/S trip after last year's GF.  He could have chosen a better day to involve his teammates.

Do you have any proof that players got home really late before the game?  

If not then I'd stay away from peddling a rumour that it impacted on their prep for the game.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Wiseblood

[drdrake 3,035]

9 minutes ago, -Ⓥ- said:

How many times have we had a run against us like that this year? Let's say more than 4 goals (I'd prefer to look at 5-6+).

Hawks.

Pies?

Swans.

Any others?

(Serious q, not being smart.)

Add in Geelong twice, R1 second Quarter I think it was 7 goals to zip, and we now what happened in Geelong.

I'm sure St Kilda did the same, and with out going into every game, I reckon some games we have won, Brisbane is one I remember that they got a run on us and got close at one stage.

We need to win this week as we are a mile to slow to compete with GWS

[SFebes 4,692]

The timing of the Lever engagement is actually pretty poor IMO, Jake is also one of our backline coaches while injured also. Late nights before a big game don't help anyone, regardless of drinking or not.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,399]

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

Again, it came back to our inability to put pressure on the scoreboard when we dominated the first quarter and a half.  Kick straight and turn that 3.7 into 7.3 and we are 6 goals up and cruising.  The Swans took their chances when they were presented with them and we simply couldn't do the same.

Similarly to the Hawks game in this respect, I guess a positive is we fought this one out instead of capitulating by 10 goals.

[Lucifers Hero 36,983]

3 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Do you have any proof that any of the players drank alcohol, got drunk, got home really late etc. before the game?  

If not then I'd stay away from peddling a rumour that it impacted on their prep for the game.

I didn't say anything about them drinking alcohol - you made that up.  Nor anything about being 'really' late.

So you are the one alluding to rumours.  Take a look at your own thought processes.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Lucifer's Hero

[Wiseblood 24,636]

2 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I didn't say anything about them drinking alcohol - you made that up.  Nor anything about being 'really' late.

So you are the one alluding to rumours.  Take a look at your own thought processes.

You made reference to the engagement party first, as if it impacted on their prep for the game.  So what have you got to back that up?  You must be alluding to something if you're bringing it up.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,399]

1 hour ago, GCDee said:

Sydney didn't beat us we best out selves. 17 more inside 50s, 6 more scoring shots and we lose by less than 2 goals. 

We are a very young side with some key players out which just lacked a bit of finish today. Season is not done, I have faith in us getting over the line in at least one of the 2 remaining games.

That bald [censored] of an umpire is beyond rigged. 

People don't like hearing it but it's true. Our lack of experience shows out in these types of games against battle hardened opposition. Our lack of composure is a symptom of our fear of failure. Once we get over the line in one or two of these games the players will start to have the belief and the confidence that they can do it. All of a sudden we're nailing those relatively easy set shots and putting teams away. It may not happen this year and it will be extremely disappointing if we throw away another chance to get some finals experience but the team is building. When we lost to the Saints I thought that was the game that would cost us finals. It might still turn out to be the case. Of course the irony is out of our 5 close losses that is the one we clearly weren't the better side on the day.

I still have faith the wheel is turning and I am optimistic we will beat WCE this week. No nicnat, gaff, Kennedy, Schofield plus another one or two I'm forgetting. We play well on the road. We will go in underdogs. I have a feeling we will win or go down swinging this week.

[SFebes 4,692]

What is/was our average age and average games played vs the rest of the AFL on the weekend? Anyone know where to find it? It seems our kids are either young and inexperienced and our old players are codgers.

[Lucifers Hero 36,983]

10 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

You made reference to the engagement party first, as if it impacted on their prep for the game.  So what have you got to back that up?  You must be alluding to something if you're bringing it up.

I didn't say anything about drinking or being out really late so you need to retract those comments before they become folklore and spread like wild fire.  It was your interpretation at fault here and I won't wear responsibility for that.

 

My reference to the engagement party was as much about its timing which Lever has a right to do anytime he likes.  Perhaps a Fri night rather than Sat night before a game would be a touch wiser. 

 

There was a post last night talking about Petracca, Jones, Gawn and others enjoying the party. Nothing wrong with that but not a good look.  Post said pictures have been deleted from instagram accounts.  Someone, somewhere was concerned that instragram pics of co-cap, vice cap etc out the night befoe the game was not a good look or why else delete them.  You can go back thru this thread and find it for yourself.

I repeat no-one has alluded to alcohol or being out really late.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Lucifer's Hero

[Mazer Rackham 14,968]

1 hour ago, Soidee said:

Harmes said the positive was we had six more scoring shots!!! What the hell does this attitude show everybody?  They are robots who need a kick up the rear end.

"We had six more scoring shots and squandered them. That's gotta be a good thing."

Any other positives, James?

"Speaking of scoring, went to Jake's party on Satdee noight ... picked up a real stunna!"

[Wiseblood 24,636]

3 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I didn't say anything about drinking or being out really late so you need to retract those comments before they become folklore and spread like wild fire.  It was your interpretation at fault here and I won't wear responsibility for that.

 

My reference to the engagement party was as much about its timing which Lever has a right to do anytime he likes.  Perhaps a Fri night rather than Sat night before a game would be a touch wiser. 

 

There was a post last night talking about Petracca, Jones, Gawn and others enjoying the party. Nothing wrong with that but not a good look.  Post said pictures have been deleted from instagram accounts.  Someone, somewhere was concerned that instragram pics of co-cap, vice cap etc out the night befoe the game was not a good look or why else delete them.  You can go back thru this thread and find it for yourself.

I repeat no-one has alluded to alcohol or being out really late.

I'll retract the alcohol one, but you mentioned Jones possibly being 'tired' from being at the engagement party, which to me alludes to the fact he was out later than he should be, something there is no proof of.

Again, you're the one who brought it up, so you can wear the responsibility for that.  I'll retract the other comments.

[Lucifers Hero 36,983]

1 minute ago, Wiseblood said:

I'll retract the alcohol one, but you mentioned Jones possibly being 'tired' from being at the engagement party, which to me alludes to the fact he was out later than he should be, something there is no proof of.

Again, you're the one who brought it up, so you can wear the responsibility for that.  I'll retract the other comments.

Look for last night's post and you will find that I am not.

Well done for retracting other comments.

[jane02 3,315]

18 minutes ago, MSFebey said:

The timing of the Lever engagement is actually pretty poor IMO, Jake is also one of our backline coaches while injured also. Late nights before a big game don't help anyone, regardless of drinking or not.

I heard that it was a "hens party" for Jakes fiancée not an engagement party. I also heard it was girls only unless of course Jake had his bucks party the same night which would have not been ideal timing.

[DeeZone 7,668]

That game was hard to watch, our bottom eight were never in the fight and even though we fought back late still couldn't kick a goal to save ourselves. We leave their goal square free, no leadership in defence. They defend our goal square like their lives depend on it and how many goals did Heeney save on the last line.......??????????????????????? That was just diabolical...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SFebes 4,692]

2 minutes ago, jane02 said:

I heard that it was a "hens party" for Jakes fiancée not an engagement party. I also heard it was girls only unless of course Jake had his bucks party the same night which would have not been ideal timing.

A previous poster said there were images of the boys on instagram that have now been taken down. I didn't see it.

[chook fowler 18,174]

We really are a very passive club. There is no hard edge to take us to finals. We were playing 3 men down with Spargo, Garlett and Hunt as non- contributors. Goodwin needed to show some dissatisfaction with the performance, instead he let them off the hook. Pathetic really.