POSTMATCH DISCUSSION - Round 18

[Demon Dynasty 15,186]

36 minutes ago, Dee Zephyr said:

Again, without knowing if there’s any options behind the kicker it’s in my opinion Trac’s ‘bomb’ was the right play in an attempt to gain a forward 50 stoppage.

Apologies if the pic isn’t very clear, I count 8 Cats between Trac and the 50. I see 5 Melbourne jumpers with only 1 demanding the ball. Umpire’s arms are waving play on with Trac still possessing the ball. 

The other interesting aspect here is we have a player exiting the field while in front with 90 seconds to go!!?? Surely we needed all 18 on the park with no Cat spares at this critical phase?

[drdrake 3,035]

I haven't looked at much since the game finished, saw some footage today the Touhy mark, the players in the picture I saw was Jetta, Spargo and Salem, three of our smallest players, where were our talls.  To me it was like our players wanted to score to win the game rather than stop them scoring.

We had our chances, the 5 points we kicked in the last JKH, and I think ANB both had easy chances in the last few minutes but missed.

Have to say, we controlled the game for 3 quarters, the only thing that kept Geelong in the was the intercept marks in the forward 50m by their loose player.  I know it is easy from a far to think why can't we just man them up and stop this, it will effect our structure but when you control the game why leave this man spare.

[beelzebub 22,225]

13 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

The other interesting aspect here is we have a player exiting the field while in front with 90 seconds to go!!?? Surely we needed all 18 on the park with no Cat spares at this critical phase?

That's among the silliest things I've seen ?

[chook fowler 18,170]

So many rookie errors - it’s infuriating 

[layzie 28,474]

10 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I loved the way we played an attacking game, constantly looked to bring the ball through the middle corridor instead of long down the line around the boundary. Petracca, Spargo and Oliver were highlights for me.

Absolutely shattered with losing in particular the way we lost but Geelong were playing for their season as much as us. We're nearly there just need a bit more composure and we'd be sitting comfortably in the top 4 if not top 2 - 2x games vs Cats, Port and Saints all games we should've won and outplayed our opponents in 3 of them. I understand the anger and frustration last night but big picture we are still on the right track. This is a very good young football side we've got hopefully they figure how to take the step to being great.

As for those wanting Goodwin's head or blaming the loss on him I hope that was said in the heat of emotion after the loss. I have complete faith in the guy but he made an overhaul of his assistants.

I know in time this will be of massive benefit to us. We'll be the side always looking for that next goal and going for the throat. There's been plenty of talk that we needed to control the tempo and I was one of them but lets be honest, that can play into the opposition's hands as well if you go into your shell too early. 

I was frustrated with Goodwin after Sat night for sure. There were a few things he did that didn't work but I'm also prepared to acknowledge that his structures and moves early on put us in the position to win. I know it can come across harsh but I'm definitely not going to call for the guy's head. Does he need to evolve? Maybe. But he's definitely our guy right now as far as I'm concerned.

[Dee Zephyr 17,302]

21 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

The other interesting aspect here is we have a player exiting the field while in front with 90 seconds to go!!?? Surely we needed all 18 on the park with no Cat spares at this critical phase?

Yes, leaving ourselves vulnerable to a turnover doesn’t make sense. The only player I can see in that shot instructing Trac is Jesse pointing to the spot where the ball was kicked and he’s 80 metres away. 

[Demon Dynasty 15,186]

2 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

That's among the silliest things I've seen ?

I can only hope he is following his direct opponent off the field BZ and we cant see it.  To gift any opponent a spare man, even for 15 or 20 seconds at that crucial juncture, beggars belief.

 

[beelzebub 22,225]

We've totally forgotten how to defend.

As soon as Geelong had two unanswered goals in the last...and the tide obvious...the instruction should have been shut the game down, re-establish control. Once the game wrested back... the look to add to the scoreboard .

We did the exact opposite.

This is not hindsight speaking per se. Many have been lamenting our blinkered style of footy for some time.

This game was very 'finals' footy. Imho it exemplified why we are just not ready yet.

We play footy like a boxer who can only lay punches... doesn't know how to duck and weave... doesn't know how to pull the arms in and wear/sustain a barrage of body hits....no...just knows how to hit and ko lesser opponents. All very one dimensional.

We lost because we can't defend any more.( Not intelligently )

[beelzebub 22,225]

1 minute ago, Rusty Nails said:

I can only hope he is following his direct opponent off the field BZ and we cant see it.  To gift any opponent a spare man, even for 15 or 20 seconds at that crucial juncture, beggars belief.

 

Why even follow ?..smart move stay on create imbalance..for 15-30 secs you have a major tactical advantage.

[Demon Dynasty 15,186]

1 minute ago, beelzebub said:

Why even follow ?..smart move stay on create imbalance..for 15-30 secs you have a major tactical advantage.

Exactly ?

[Fat Tony 4,350]

IMO we were just plain unlucky on the weekend but our performance was first class. How many teams would beat Geelong at Kardinia Park when they kick 80% in front of goal? Maybe Richmond. The loss was devastating but you don’t win premierships in July.

Petracca has hit form and is showing again that he can become an elite midfielder. Oliver is already a top 10 player in the AFL. And Brayshaw will be very good at the least and better if he can improve his kicking.

Even without Viney, Hibberd and Lever, we are going to be a hard side to beat in the run home the way we are playing and I can’t see us having a down performance due to lack of effort given what’s happened over the last 12 months.

[Demon Dynasty 15,186]

36 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

The other interesting aspect here is we have a player exiting the field while in front with 90 seconds to go!!?? Surely we needed all 18 on the park with no Cat spares at this critical phase?

To be fair Tracc does have 2 players sitting just outside the arc that were hittable with a solid pass, one calling for it.  There was 90 seconds on the clock. Time enough to score again even if he blows that pass and its turned over for a goal.  Sometimes you need to push the envelope a little to win.

[SFebes 4,692]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

It's been known for some club's to specifically train to run clocks down.

Totally agree with above b-ball analogy ( having played over 45 years ) you learn every trick in the book to kill seconds. Footy is no different really....it's still about possession.

We just blaze away......like a damaged fighter plane plummeting .

This is where true leadership comes into it. ( I'll have to re-watch the last 2 mins again later...to see where anyone was )  It is actually beholden upon the non kicker to provide options.

And when you do, ask yourself why our two most experienced players were in our forward half of the ground when the ball was being pumped into Geelongs 50

[jnrmac 18,914]

4 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

IMO we were just plain unlucky on the weekend but our performance was first class. How many teams would beat Geelong at Kardinia Park when they kick 80% in front of goal? Maybe Richmond. The loss was devastating but you don’t win premierships in July.

Petracca has hit form and is showing again that he can become an elite midfielder. Oliver is already a top 10 player in the AFL. And Brayshaw will be very good at the least and better if he can improve his kicking.

Even without Viney, Hibberd and Lever, we are going to be a hard side to beat in the run home the way we are playing and I can’t see us having a down performance due to lack of effort given what’s happened over the last 12 months.

If you really think we lost that game because we 'were just plain unlucky' your opinion is not worth a cracker.

Geelong had kicked 8 goals to 3/4 time and we let them kick 8 straight in the last qtr. Ineptitude of the highest order. Weakest defensive effort for a long time. 

We have one plan and one speed. Bomb it into our fwd line as quickly as possible. It doesn't stack up in big games against quality opposition or in finals. Our record is testament to that (well not the finals bit).

2018 is gone. We can't defend.

 

Edited July 22, 2018 by jnrmac

[Fat Tony 4,350]

1 minute ago, jnrmac said:

If you really think we lost that game becasue we 'were just plain unlucky' you should seek help and your opinion is not worth a cracker.

Geelong had kicked 8 goals to 3/4 time and we let them kick 8 straight in the last qtr. Ineptitude of the highest order. Weakest defensive effort for a long time. 

We have one plan and one speed. Bomb it into our fwd line as quickly as possible. It doesn't stack up in big games aaginst quality opposition or in finals. Our record is testament to that.

2018 is gone. We can't defend.

 

We managed to keep Geelong to 20 scoring shots for the game. So our defence was not as bad as you make out despite OMac getting a hiding. Geelong kicked 16.3, with one rushed. You would expect that type of accuracy once per season.

And St Kilda smashed the Tigers in July last year. We are not shot yet. We are seventh and one game outside top 4.

[beelzebub 22,225]

13 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

To be fair Tracc does have 2 players sitting just outside the arc that were hittable with a solid pass, one calling for it.  There was 90 seconds on the clock. Time enough to score again even if he blows that pass and its turned over for a goal.  Sometimes you need to push the envelope a little to win.

Gotta know when to hold them...

[drdrake 3,035]

4 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

We managed to keep Geelong to 20 scoring shots for the game. So our defence was not as bad as you make out despite OMac getting a hiding. Geelong kicked 16.3, with one rushed. You would expect that type of accuracy once per season.

And St Kilda smashed the Tigers in July last year. We are not shot yet. We are seventh and one game outside top 4.

Love your optimism but essentially we need to win 4 off our last 5 maybe 3 might sneak us in.  We aren't Richmond of last year, to me we are still Melbourne of last year, when we need the result the brain takes over the doubt kicks in and we fall to pieces.  We see this over and over and over again, it is all between the ears and we just can't fix it.

[number 27 62]

17 hours ago, pinkshark said:

so no eight you're saying?

 

not saying we will miss the 8, loads can happen in the last 5 games. I feel like we will need to win the final game of the season to make the 8

[Deemania since 56 6,119]

17 hours ago, shorty said:

We must be the number 1 team for giving away free kicks and 50m penalties that result in goals.  I can't remember a game where by we have not given goals away for doing something stupid or dumb. Same last year!

It's killing us!

Selective attention from umpires under instructions is the cause of this malaise ... how many times has it occurred in the past five years? (I am unable to keep count of these outcomes this year, as it is.) Gus suffered Sat night, Hogan suffered Sat night, Harmes suffered Sat night, etc, etc, etc.

[Binmans PA 25,890]

9 hours ago, Dee Zephyr said:

Maybe someone that was at the game can tell us if Trac has options behind him for a short pass to milk the clock.

From the view on the TV he had no options sideways or forward for a short kick like @Dr. Gonzo posted above. 

If anyone is willing to sit through the last two minutes again you will see the umpire clearly signal play on before Trac kicked the ball.

I was at the ground and behind this kick. This play from Petracca seemed like the correct one. It was about territory and he kicked it towards Max and we managed to get the ball inside 50 and out for a reset.

Jeffy's play a short time after lacked composure. Really he should have kicked the goal as he had more time, but once he missed, we gave them the chance. I'd have liked to think a Lewis would have done something different with that Jeffy play, but Vince's lack of composure moments later, was no better and our lack of defensive two way accountability knowing roughly how much time was left, contributed heavily to the loss.

JKH's miss before all of this was simply not AFL standard either and exhibited yet another moment that was completely lacking in composure.

It was a team choke. Make absolutely no mistake about it.

Edited July 23, 2018 by A F

[SFebes 4,692]

If we can keep that effort up and all we have to do is win ugly not pretty, get Viney and Hibbo back things may get interesting late in the year

[SFebes 4,692]

7 minutes ago, A F said:

I was at the ground and behind this kick. This play from Petracca seemed like the correct one. It was about territory and he kicked it towards Max and we managed to get the ball inside 50 and out for a reset.

Jeffy's play a short time after lacked composure. Really he should have kicked the goal as he had more time, but once he missed, we gave them the chance. I'd have liked to think a Lewis would have done something different with that Jeffy play, but Vince's lack of composure moments later, was no better and our lack of defensive two way accountability knowing roughly how much time was left, contributed heavily to the loss.

JKH's miss before all of this was simply not AFL standard either and exhibited yet another moment that was completely lacking in composure.

It was a team choke. Make absolutely no mistake about it.

I don't mind the Petracca and Garlett incidents so much as the failure to stop Ablett and flood their backline. A mighty choke indeed

[Binmans PA 25,890]

1 hour ago, Rusty Nails said:

The other interesting aspect here is we have a player exiting the field while in front with 90 seconds to go!!?? Surely we needed all 18 on the park with no Cat spares at this critical phase?

I didn't notice this at the ground but someone else picked this up on Demonland; that must be JKH coming off with the runner.

We may never know (it might have been coincidental - doubtful) but if they dragged JKH at such a crucial moment, that spells the end of his career. They simply didn't trust him.

[John Crow Batty 8,221]

25 minutes ago, A F said:

I was at the ground and behind this kick. This play from Petracca seemed like the correct one. It was about territory and he kicked it towards Max and we managed to get the ball inside 50 and out for a reset.

Jeffy's play a short time after lacked composure. Really he should have kicked the goal as he had more time, but once he missed, we gave them the chance. I'd have liked to think a Lewis would have done something different with that Jeffy play, but Vince's lack of composure moments later, was no better and our lack of defensive two way accountability knowing roughly how much time was left, contributed heavily to the loss.

JKH's miss before all of this was simply not AFL standard either and exhibited yet another moment that was completely lacking in composure.

It was a team choke. Make absolutely no mistake about it.

Vince punched the ball back to inside 50 in an area where there were seven Melbourne players. Nothing wrong with that. Instead of trying to lock it in to force stoppage, Brayshaw and Neal-Bullen were trying to knock it out of congestion with the others waiting for the ball to come out. I suggest this was the only error that mattered in the heat of the moment. Everyone should have piled in and stopped the game.  Even if they gave up a free it wouldn’t have mattered. 

Edited July 23, 2018 by america de cali

[Skin Deeamond 339]

8 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Vince punched the ball back to inside 50 in an area where there were seven Melbourne players. Nothing wrong with that. Instead of trying to lock it in to force stoppage, Brayshaw and Neal-Bullen were trying to knock it out of congestion with the others waiting for the ball to come out. I suggest this was the only error that mattered in the heat of the moment. Everyone should have piled in and stopped the game.  Even if they gave up a free it wouldn’t have mattered. 

Don’t forget that the players don’t know the exact amount of time left. A free could be highly disadvantageous if there’s enough time to go coast to coast and kick a goal down the other end (which is what happened for other reasons).