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With Miller looking the option that we will use at CHF, based on his last couple of games (Freo semi & Saints) what happens to Dunn.

Dunn is likely to be a better player this year with a bit of extra strength and experience but if it is going to be Miller that plays CHF what do we do with Lynden.

Having Robbo and Neitz with Miller means that playing Dunn will leave us too top heavy and he will miss out and be playing with Sandy unless another role can be found of either Miller or Dunn. Miller down back doesn't work and Dunn is too natural a forward to tamper with this.

I would personally start with Dunn at CHF and make Miller work his way into the team, but I would also like to hear some other opinions on the matter. I just don't want a young players' talents wasted

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with neitz resting in the nab cup and an extended interchange bench, it would surprise me if newton didnt play CHF and we didnt take dunn and miller into the side. both will get a go at CHF and their form in these matches added to other preseason training will decide who starts at CHF. i cant see why we cant play both. dunns size means he could prob play on the flank, and miller does tend to push up into the center meaning dunn can then straighten up to the top of the 50. this would leave robo and neitz as the talls at FF. if we played all 4 we are likely to see robo get a smaller opponent which will only help him. i think miller needs to be utilised pushing up the ground as the linkman.

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with neitz resting in the nab cup and an extended interchange bench, it would surprise me if newton didnt play CHF and we didnt take dunn and miller into the side. both will get a go at CHF and their form in these matches added to other preseason training will decide who starts at CHF. i cant see why we cant play both. dunns size means he could prob play on the flank, and miller does tend to push up into the center meaning dunn can then straighten up to the top of the 50. this would leave robo and neitz as the talls at FF. if we played all 4 we are likely to see robo get a smaller opponent which will only help him. i think miller needs to be utilised pushing up the ground as the linkman.

finally people starting agree with me...

I have said it before (but has been mostly ignored) I see miller as the Hamil type, strong presence on the half forward line. Then Nietz and done like Gherig and Dunn playing the Riedwolt role from the saints. Ok so they are different players but the structure is apealing and we have better smalls at their feet (robo and flash). A further note was that that structure (when in place... thankfully it has been VERY rare for them) has been deadly.

A further note, with taller players playing infront and with the more stringent in the back rule and the possibility of having a missmatch might draw a few free's in the forward half.

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Hopefully Dunn will be our perminent CHF player as miller is a hopeless kick. Yes dunn needs to put some musscle on but jesus he is fast, a good kick, diciplined. Miller is depth in my opinion and used when against stronger oponents

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Hopefully Dunn will be our perminent CHF player as miller is a hopeless kick. Yes dunn needs to put some musscle on but jesus he is fast, a good kick, diciplined. Miller is depth in my opinion and used when against stronger oponents

Do you mean physically stronger opponents, or stronger as in better?

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Do you mean physically stronger opponents, or stronger as in better?

physically

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Before we drafted Dunn, I remember reading something about him on Big footy. Apparently he spent a lot of time as a CHB in under age comp. And (if I remember correctly) he had a reputation as a bit of a hot head, this being touted as a distinct disadvantage!

However since his début he appears to have been the very model of on-field-sobriety both at Melbourne and at Sandringham.

Anyway, is he worth trying as a CHB. He's tall enough, fast, attacking and appears to be putting on the muscle!

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why try him at CHB when we frawley, rivers, carroll, ferguson and holland all better CHB players then him? leave him in the forward line

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There is no reaso why we cannot play all 4 of Neitz, Robbo, Miller and Dunn in the forward 6.

As stated previously Neitz and Robbo play their best footy deep around the goal mouth and Miller up around the wing between 55 and 75 from goal. That leaves Dunn a ton of space around and inside the 50 metre line to patrol and make his own. Plus with teams forced to play a tall on him Robbo is more likley to get a smaller opponent as deanox mentioned

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I think the more important question than Dunn v Miller is who will be our rover in the forward line. I like davey around the ground and due to his pressure and speed he is waisted if he plays his time in the forward line. Yze is still yet to show any domonance (besides when it comes Collingwood) and Pickett is needed in the midfield/back line. Bell isnt at AFL standard yet neither is Johnson (chris)

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Bell isnt at AFL standard

Bell is still very much a developing player, however IMO he has shown a fair bit at AFL level and is easily up to "AFL standard".

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Bell is still very much a developing player, however IMO he has shown a fair bit at AFL level and is easily up to "AFL standard".

Bell is a player who will never be very good. He doesent posess much awareness, his height is a disadvantage and he has had plenty of time and oportunities to muld himself into the side on a perminant basis. I am yet to see that. He has great courage but lacks skills and awareness. Too often he has no idea what to do with the ball when its in his hands. Saying that he will have an OK 2007 season and will be usefull for depth and games which require his match up. Hes a defender or forward and i cant see him anywhere in here

Backline:

B: Whelan Carroll Holland

HB: Bartram Rivers Green

Forward

HF: Robbo Miller/Dunn Pickett

F: Yze Neitz Johnson

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Miller is depth in my opinion and used when against stronger oponents

So you select our forward line based on who matches up similarly to opposition defenders. Strange, I thought we'd do the opposite.

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Why is there so many people sold on Brad Miller?

It took him 23 weeks to have a decent game last year

he still cant kick goals

Dunn is a better natural footballer by a mile. Can take a contested mark. Can actually kick with penetration and accuracy

I would start th season with Miller at CHF to see what he is made of

But by years end Dunn will be miles ahead of him

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I think the more important question than Dunn v Miller is who will be our rover in the forward line. I like davey around the ground and due to his pressure and speed he is waisted if he plays his time in the forward line. Yze is still yet to show any domonance (besides when it comes Collingwood) and Pickett is needed in the midfield/back line. Bell isnt at AFL standard yet neither is Johnson (chris)

Forward

HF: Robbo Miller/Dunn Pickett

F: Yze Neitz Johnson

You say who will be the rover in the forward line and then not name anyone and also say that Dunn v Miller isn't important yet can't choose someone yourself. Some opinions would be nice...

Why is there so many people sold on Brad Miller?

I'm not sold on Miller and was all for trading him last year. I don't believe he will be anywhere near CHF by years end, and i'm hoping the Fottball Department see this and play Dunn, because we won't win a flag with Brad at CHF IMO.

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You say who will be the rover in the forward line and then not name anyone and also say that Dunn v Miller isn't important yet can't choose someone yourself. Some opinions would be nice...

I did it because i believe there are some opponants Dunn is not ready for. St Kilda for instance. He is not ready for Hammell. I was also trying to not create any more friction between thoes who like miller and thoes who like Dunn. To end this argument forget about Miller being named there and just have dunn

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A couple of points if I may...

Firstly, playing 4 talls in the one forward line, no matter how 'long' they lead, is not the way to go.

The focus now is very much on gut running. 4 talls in the one forward line, plus Robbo (lets face it, he isn't the hardest runner going around), plus Yze (never chases) to me spells easy opposition rebound.

Miller has a pretty good engine, but he isn't particularly fast, neither is Dunn. This means that their opponents will easily run off them and rebound, creating plenty of fast movement and entries into our backline. That is a recipe for disaster.

I'm a fan of Miller, but I also recognise his deficiencies when measured against Dunn. I have no idea how we'll be able to find space for both in the forward line, and possibly also give Newton a taste of senior footy during the season proper.

I can't even believe I'm raising this as an option, as I've always been against this, but we may just have to throw Milsy down back as a third tall. Although he is a pretty hopeless defender. :unsure:

Secondly, Occo, why is Bell's height a disadvantage?

He is only slightly smaller than Clement and Bassett, making him a suitable opponent for both small and medium forwards.

Now that he is (apperantly) OP-free, I expect his movement and speed (especially lateral movement), to improve dramatically. His combination of speed and stregth is underrated.

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I'm not sold on Miller and was all for trading him last year. I don't believe he will be anywhere near CHF by years end, and i'm hoping the Fottball Department see this and play Dunn, because we won't win a flag with Brad at CHF IMO.

After a Summer of quiet reflection and genial behaviour around here (due, no doubt, to all participants having consumed large quantities of Optimism That Comes From New Draftees And A New Season Ahead, it's good to see that Demonland is slowly returning to its usual glory, ie soaked with Jaded's despised "Miller bashing".

Miller bashing

def. Any discussion concerning Brad Miller that in any way suggests that there is even the remotest possibility that he is not The Greatest Footballer in History, Superman and/or God.

I have never been sold on Miller, especially as a defender. While he was one of our best against Freo, I see no long term future for him in the side. He is there as a stop-gap (hopefully never again in defence) until Dunn/Newton come on enough to hold down CHF, and then he will only be required as "depth".

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After a Summer of quiet reflection and genial behaviour around here (due, no doubt, to all participants having consumed large quantities of Optimism That Comes From New Draftees And A New Season Ahead, it's good to see that Demonland is slowly returning to its usual glory, ie soaked with Jaded's despised "Miller bashing".

Miller bashing

def. Any discussion concerning Brad Miller that in any way suggests that there is even the remotest possibility that he is not The Greatest Footballer in History, Superman and/or God.

I have never been sold on Miller, especially as a defender. While he was one of our best against Freo, I see no long term future for him in the side. He is there as a stop-gap (hopefully never again in defence) until Dunn/Newton come on enough to hold down CHF, and then he will only be required as "depth".

To be fair, Jaded did acknowledge Miller's weaknesses in this post.

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To be fair, Jaded did acknowledge Miller's weaknesses in this post.

Acknowledged, and apologies to Jaded. Her post was not up at the time I started typing.

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To many focus on Miller's negatives and don't see the positives.

Last year Miller was held back by two things. The first is that he was played out of position. This has been acknowledged by Daniher. The second is he played with a reasonably severe dose of OP which limited his usual strength which is his endurance.

Miller played an exceptionally good game in R20 v Kanga's and was easily our best against Freo. He played CHF in both games.

I've no doubt that he'll play good footy for us this year and CHF will be his to lose. In my opinion Robertson and Yze have more to worry about. Both have to increase their work rate.

As for Dunny he will certainly make life interesting for selectors if he continues to improve. IMO he will challenge for Robbo's spot as much as Miller's.

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Bell is a player who will never be very good. He doesent posess much awareness, his height is a disadvantage and he has had plenty of time and oportunities to muld himself into the side on a perminant basis. I am yet to see that. He has great courage but lacks skills and awareness. Too often he has no idea what to do with the ball when its in his hands. Saying that he will have an OK 2007 season and will be usefull for depth and games which require his match up. Hes a defender or forward and i cant see him anywhere in here

Disagree that Bell lacks skills. His skills are very good. I agree that his awareness is not great and he definitely needs to work on his decision making. But if he does make the right decision, the skill execution is usually spot on.

Dunn has more tools to be a better footballer than Miller. He needs to get more aggressive and I'd like to see him charge through more often. But he has that natural forward's instinct to be in the right place at the right time and bob up for a few goals. Miller doesn't possess this attribute and has to work bloody hard for his goals. Admittedly he pushes up the ground, but he hasn't really displayed that nous around goals that Dunn has.

As Fan says, Miller still has much to offer and they may well play different roles. I just feel that Miller is more predictable and easier to shut down while Dunn has the tools to add a few strings to his bow.

NAB Cup form will be important but ATM Miller is ahead for the CHF spot.

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Miller looks far more comfortable at CHF but there are going to be times when he'll have to go down back. I'm amazed at how he always seems to be able to handle Barry Hall so well but struggles against some lesser forwards when in defence.

As for Lynden Dunn, I think he'll become a permanent feature in the lineup but it could be anywhere from the wing to HFF and even CHF. The interesting thing will be what happens if Michael Newton also steps up this year.

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Bell is a player who will never be very good. He doesent posess much awareness, his height is a disadvantage and he has had plenty of time and oportunities to muld himself into the side on a perminant basis. I am yet to see that. He has great courage but lacks skills and awareness. Too often he has no idea what to do with the ball when its in his hands.

While he more than likely won't be a star, who is in the demons line-up? Bell will be a very good player. His awareness problems and decision making are somthing that can be deveoloped and learned both through training and experience. Did you watch his last few weeks in red & blue? He was sensational. One of our best at the death of the season. He's got blistering pace, even through the pain of OP, he has incredible delivery into the forward fifty, even when under pressure (Saints final), and he rarey misses a target by miles, if at all. While he's no Trav in this department (who is?) He'd be right up there for kicking efficiency and accuracy at the club. I look forward to this kid proving you wrong. Again.

Oh, and on the Dunn/Miller tiff, I have no idea where to go with this one. I'm dead-set 50-50 on it. As far as I'm concerned, whoever has a blistering NAB cup will have more time on the ground come the real stuff. Miller is the "sensible" option as he's more mature and has put together a longer and more substantial career than Dunn, but Lynden clearly has the framework to become a better player. Do we have time to experiment in 2007? Time will tell. For now I'm staying on the fence. Who needs another Miller/Dunn debate anyway?

4-KPP forward line? Please. We all know how stifled Robbo gets when Neita's playing. I imagine he'd disappear completely if he was one of 4 leading marking forwards. If he could get the loose ball with a bit more regularity and create more damage, then maybe. At this stage, it aint broke. Don't fix it.

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I answer that. The reason why miller performed so well on Barry Hall is because the SCG is so small that and Barry Hall always has about 5 opponents against him. Dunn is to miller as Davey is to Shannon Motlop.

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