Changes v Port

[Roost It 1,434]

1 minute ago, Petraccattack said:

 

Both teams will be 8-4 (assuming Port beat the Dogs this week).    It is huge.   And its on a Friday night.

Hopefully we don't choke on the big stage again.

If we don’t win our season is shot, that’s just my opinion though ?

[picket fence 15,040]

9 hours ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

A few players are causing me concern at this stage.  ANB and Harmes look a million dollars against the poorer teams but go completely to water when the pressure is turned up- both of them put in shockers against Hawthorn, Richmond and yesterday against Collingwood.  Against weak opposition ANB seems to have time and space to make smart decisions; Harmes seems powerful and assured.  When playing against the big bodies and intense pressure, they are fumbly and lost.

Whilst Lewis is experienced and a good organiser, and played some of his best games for the club in the last few weeks, he once again yesterday highlighted the absurdity of being a small defender who cannot keep pace with any opposition small forwards.  Can we really have him in our backline come finals, if he can't compete when the ball hits the ground?

Vince.  I'm just not seeing what he's giving us this year.  He used to be a physical player with a booming kick that would break opposition zones and put teammates running into space.  Yesterday he had just the seven kicks and one tackle.  I'm not sure that it's an issue with form for Bernie anymore, he just can't seem to keep up with the contest nowadays.

Love what Spargo has shown this year and I am convinced he will be a good player for us.  But yesterday, he was brushed aside with impunity.  He's come into the team, made a solid contribution and picked up invaluable experience, but he needs more bulk and strength if he's going to make a contribution against the better teams or in September.  Send him to the VFL, play him on the ball and let him develop there for a few weeks.

Seeing Collingwood's run yesterday, I'm not so convinced on the three-pronged tall forward line.  We need pace and some run and carry and our two fastest players (Hunt and Frost) are both playing VFL.  If Pedersen is to go out of the side, I would like to see him replaced with a small running player.

Essentially, I don't think we should base our changes on trying to re-strock the team that thrashed Essendon, Carlton, StKilda, Gold Coast, Adelaide and the Bulldogs.  We need to put together a team that can challenge and defeat Collingwood, Richmond or West Coast.

Agree with all you have said, and so …..

Care to pick a team to win vs Port sheuzenfried!?

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,131]

Rather than be knee jerk  to QB only I think we have three things to resolve coming into the back half of season. These were already known but were validated against very good opposition on the weekend.

Who is the second ruck? The Lewis/Vince backline combo will catch us out and needs to be solved now? What is the right small forward combo. Based on addressing these needs I would do the following initially and continue to tinker to get these right.

Pedo out for T Smith (him or Weid but I think Tim provides more flexibility at this time)

Vince out for Harmes (I would trial him as a running back).

Hannan for Garlett (I will take Spargo's second quarter and 7 tackles overall over Hannan's first quarter and 2 tackles for the game).

Things that others appear to think we need address but I don't I have ignored. These include a presumed need for a second tall back (a more dynamic back 6 I would prefer) and to bring in another inside mid like Tyson (I think this can be solved by Jones going outside and Brayshaw in).

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2018 by big_red_fire_engine

[Garbo 1,321]

Badly exposed for height in the backline yesterday especially once Oscar went off, so Frost probably comes in for Smith

Given out mid has been beaten the last 2 weeks VFL form should dictate Tyson and Stretch both come in, first out on form is probably Harmes, and given Spargo gets up the ground I don’t see why Stretch can’t play his role. Another option is Garlett however I haven’t seen anything from the vfl reports to indicate he has bashing the door down, I’d be bring in Bugg before him if you absolutely wanted another fwd

Perderon also doesn’t look up to it and makes our fwd line to top heavy, thought Tim Smith was stiff to be dropped so I’d bring him back for the fwd/ relief  ruck role he also gives more when the ball goes to ground than either Pedo or Weid

Edited June 12, 2018 by Garbo

[picket fence 15,040]

6 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

I think if Wines, Rockliff, Boak and SPP get hold of us around the clearances Polac and Wingard will cause us all sorts of problems.

Get beaten on the inside and they have the run and good quick ball users on the outside to make us look very slow

We are one dimensional in the midfield, None of our mids has explosive pace and can play as outsiders with perhaps Clarry Choo Choo being an authentic in and now starting to be outside as well!

[Garbo 1,321]

8 minutes ago, picket fence said:

We are one dimensional in the midfield, None of our mids has explosive pace and can play as outsiders with perhaps Clarry Choo Choo being an authentic in and now starting to be outside as well!

We looked one dimensional because we panicked and all crowed round the ball yesterday rather than just a few going in, once the ball came out into space the pies inevitably had an out number making us look slow as a result. The players need to realise that everyone going in isnt the best option. Buggered if I’m going to watch a replay but I would suspect Viney, Oliver and Jones were the culprits and need to work together better

Edited June 12, 2018 by Garbo

[Ethan Tremblay 28,281]

If Watts does a Cox who did a Kingsley I will spew. I’m not overly fussed with changes, perhaps Weid for Pedestal. 

[Biffen 12,298]

We looked small and slow yesterday. I'd drop Fritsch and Spargo for Weid and Frosty. Having said that,I haven't seen much of Port unless we are talking about the bottled variety.

[Roost It 1,434]

Weideman and Frost sound good to me

[Pennant St Dee 11,241]

2 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

They had in the centre square:
Wines - Viney
Rockliff - Jones
SPP - Oliver
Wingard - Brayshaw/Harmes/Petracca

Wings:
Polec - Fritsch
Ebert - Brayshaw/Harmes 
Westhoff/Motlop - Tommy Mc/Brayshaw/Harmes

And forward:
Dixon - Oscar
R Gray - Jetta
Westhoff/Motlop, Watts, Boak, S Gray, Neade - J Smith, Hibberd, Lewis, Salem, Vince

Could play Petty and use him on Westhoff/Watts and to provide aerial support infront of Dixon, but it might not be the week to bring him in looking at Port's structure. I'd do it because I'm not convinced there's the right match ups for Vince and Lewis.

The Wines to Wingard combination caused Richmond a heap of trouble. We have to stop that. And we have to be prepared to help Clarry deal with SPP. They use a lot of variety on the wings. Polec is silk, Ebert is just a good solid contributor. Certainly important to get on top at the coal face.

Their young backline is very underrated. No chance of winning unless we are getting one on ones and far better forward pressure. 

Ebert is a running machine not pacey but runs hard to spread. Thats what can hurt us

[Pennant St Dee 11,241]

48 minutes ago, picket fence said:

We are one dimensional in the midfield, None of our mids has explosive pace and can play as outsiders with perhaps Clarry Choo Choo being an authentic in and now starting to be outside as well!

Give Trac a couple of 5/10 min bursts in the middle like De Goey in the first quarter. Show him the tape of De Goey and start him there put the challenge to him, time to make a statement kid

[WERRIDEE 5,198]

3 hours ago, Yung Blood said:

Not really. I just don't think any of the mentioned players as possible ins are going to be have a huge impact over those who played on the weekend. Pedo was average but has built form in the VFL and I would trust him more then Weid at the moment taking marks up the ground. I don't think Vince will come out for a less experienced back, the backline wasn't too bad considering the circumstances (apart from some structure breakdowns). We were beaten comprehensively in the middle of the ground giving our backs little to no chance. It's possible we play Frost to match up on the Westoff/Dixon combo but I think we'll see them give Smith another go on whoever is playing further up the ground.

Tyson will definitely play.

Our team was a disgrace changes have to be made.

Doubt Spargo will get another go form has been poor.

Pedo better not get another game he was a disgrace.

[Brownie 5,118]

53 minutes ago, Garbo said:

We looked one dimensional because we panicked and all crowed round the ball yesterday rather than just a few going in, once the ball came out into space the pies inevitably had an out number making us look slow as a result. The players need to realise that everyone going in isnt the best option. Buggered if I’m going to watch a replay but I would suspect Viney, Oliver and Jones were the culprits and need to work together better

I think Goody said something like that in his presser. Something like "weak in close makes you look slow out wide".

Needs fixing over anything else. 

I reckon he'll keep Spargos in and Garlett hasn't delivered in a vfl team that has won it's last 5.

Frost doesn't seem to be playing well enough either just from what I've read.

Edited June 12, 2018 by Brownie

[WERRIDEE 5,198]

33 minutes ago, Brownie said:

I reckon he'll keep Spargos in and Garlett hasn't delivered in a vfl team that has won it's last 5.

A bit hard when your emergency, he's close to a recall if that is anything to go by.

Just hope Stretch doesn't get a go, VFL standard player like Pedo, Frost, Bugg and JKH they should give up on all of them they have had their chances.

[rjay 23,846]

1 hour ago, Garbo said:

We looked one dimensional because we panicked and all crowed round the ball yesterday rather than just a few going in, once the ball came out into space the pies inevitably had an out number making us look slow as a result. The players need to realise that everyone going in isnt the best option. Buggered if I’m going to watch a replay but I would suspect Viney, Oliver and Jones were the culprits and need to work together better

Oliver is a smart footballer and by far our best extractor.

I've noticed too many times this season (and have mentioned before) that others get in his way when he has the run of the ball.

Viney just adds to this problem as he has tunnel vision around the footy.

I like 'Pennants' idea of giving Trac a bit of on ball time, he's smart around the ball and more likely to clear some space.

C/Wood worked as a unit around the footy, we worked as individuals. If you look at their on ball brigade it's only Treloar that has any pace, the rest are slow (Pendles) to average.

[What 18,810]

23 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

A bit hard when your emergency, he's close to a recall if that is anything to go by.

Just hope Stretch doesn't get a go, VFL standard player like Pedo, Frost, Bugg and JKH they should give up on all of them they have had their chances.

Emergency then bye..... it will be three weeks without game time for Garlett.

Maybe the plan all along has been to bring him in after the bye as fresh legs?  Or maybe he will be rusty?

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

15 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

Emergency then bye..... it will be three weeks without game time for Garlett.

Maybe the plan all along has been to bring him in after the bye as fresh legs?  Or maybe he will be rusty?

You mean he may struggle?

[Skuit 9,109]

17 hours ago, Stretch Johnson said:

Why have our clearances dropped off since we have had all of Viney, Oliver and Jones at our disposal?

Too many ball hunters?

I've wanted to bring this up but couldn't be bothered with the likely blow-back. But I see you've been hinting around the edges Stretch, so here goes . . . 

Perhaps a silly fan perception, but I almost sensed that Viney was a bit lost on his return. When he put his head down to dig out the ball, Oliver and some other ursurpers were already there. He then seemed to step back a little, and it looked as if he was easing himself back in. Since then, he has returned to a primary extractor role, but now Oliver looks a bit frustrated and ANB and Harmes are suddenly down again - and Brayshaw, who was in top-notch form as a play-maker, has been shunted to a run-with role.

I don't want accuse JV of being a one-trick pony, but is primary strength is in burrowing under. We've switched our approach a bit since he was last in the team, from shutting down the stoppages to really getting the ball moving. Hence the blowouts for and against. Right now, Jack looks on the slow side, and I think has upset the mid-field balance a fraction.

It makes sense to want him back in the thick of it, because he is one of the league's best, and we need to back him in in the role, but the trust the running mids and half-backs have with Oliver isn't there yet with Viney. We were seriously sucked into the ball versus Collingwood. Jones too, seemed to have struggled on the weekend with the new mid-field mix and his own role.

I feel something right now has to give. Maybe Jones back to half-back to replace Vince, or Viney, who is a fantastic tagger, to swap with Brayshaw for the time being. We have ten or so weeks to get it right, but I think that sorting it out is absolutely critical to our ultimate chances to push deep into finals. When we break down in the middle - the cornerstone of our game - we get well and truly done.  

 

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2018 by Skuit

[rjay 23,846]

2 hours ago, Skuit said:

It makes sense to want him back in the thick of it, because he is one of the league's best, and we need to back him in in the role, but the trust the running mids and half-backs have with Oliver isn't there yet with Viney.

There's a reason the trust isn't there 'Skuit' and I've mentioned it before.

Jack doesn't give the ball off, he tries to do too much. Jones can be similar.

Our best, most cohesive starting midfield 3 at the moment are Oliver, Trac & Brayshaw.

Jack can only move into that grouping when he learns to be a team player.

We're not the team of old that needs to rely on one mans effort to pull us out of the s...

[Stretch Johnson 2,568]

Some great posts above.  Worth coming to demonland and trawling through the garbage after a loss to find some gold.

The good thing about this issue is it can be fixed and we have a fortnight to work it out.

Personally I would like to see jkh rotated through the midfield for a go.  Three weeks ago I would have poo pooed that idea, but I thnk we need Salem Brayshaw and another working through there.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

9 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

You mean he may struggle?

From all reports he's been doing enough of that already this year.

9 hours ago, rjay said:

 

I like 'Pennants' idea of giving Trac a bit of on ball time, he's smart around the ball and more likely to clear some space.

 

The one thing Trac has still been terrific at, even during a little bit of a form slump, is his ability to keep his feet.  He is really adept at picking up the footy and shrugging tackles without going to ground easily.  The next thing he needs to do is take his time - often he'll find the ball, break a tackle and almost panic with it by hitting a handpass that's ill directed or just a quick, 30 metre kick out of a pack.  Once he learns to stay calm and make the right decision he'll be a real weapon at stoppages.

[Demon17 4,519]

11 hours ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

Rather than be knee jerk  to QB only I think we have three things to resolve coming into the back half of season. These were already known but were validated against very good opposition on the weekend.

Hannan for Garlett (I will take Spargo's second quarter and 7 tackles overall over Hannan's first quarter and 2 tackles for the game).

 

 

 

 

Sitting near the bench on Monday I was close up to a couple of good things Spargo did, getting into trouble, getting out, and seemingly keeping a cool head. That small passage of play sold me in the kid. Although he's been playing like that earlier also.

[Demon17 4,519]

1 hour ago, rjay said:

 

Jack doesn't give the ball off, he tries to do too much. Jones can be similar.

 

Jack can only move into that grouping when he learns to be a team player.

.

Did anyone else notice in the 2nd 1/4 at a centre bounce about the 10 minute markish Jack V  gesticulating to T Mac  and pointing to the goals which looked like a bake to TMAc about why he didn't kick forward instead of passing off. Waiting for the re-bounce after the scrum Tmac gave it back to jack.

Was interesting. 

[Wiseblood 24,636]

2 minutes ago, Demon17 said:

Sitting near the bench on Monday I was close up to a couple of good things Spargo did, getting into trouble, getting out, and seemingly keeping a cool head. That small passage of play sold me in the kid. Although he's been playing like that earlier also.

Spargo is going to be a ripper.  As a kid he still fades in and out of games, which is understandable. but his second term was fantastic and he was one of the players to get us back into the game.  Unless they really feel he needs a rest he has given no reason for us to drop him.

[Gator 16,888]

Tyson is a must in.  We've been down on clearances and his inside work is underrated.

Pedersen is a must out.  Despite his many fans on here he's not up to it.

Structurally, I think we need another tall defender.  Smith needs to be the third banana.

In: Tyson, Weideman or Smith, Petty

Out: Harmes, Pedersen, Vince