Post Match Discussion - Round 12

[Dee Zephyr 17,302]

9 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Lewis's take on why we the lost:  http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2018-06-12/losses-provide-chance-to-learn-lewis

 “They blocked up the corridor which forced us down the line a lot.”

“They isolated their forwards, (Mason) Cox had a really good day and a few of their other forwards pitched in as well, so it wasn’t a great day defensively from us,”

“They were dominant around the midfield, our defenders were out of play and our forwards were out of play, so there’s learnings to come from every line.”

Yep, a lot to learn from yesterday.  While its a damn shame we couldn't adjust for any of that during the game we can be confident that a plan will be put in place for next time it happens, I hope. 

Watching near the fence behind Punt Rd goals the bolded bit stuck out the most. Collingwood did it well and we took no risk in trying to open it up. Carbon copy of the Hawks and Tigers games yet it seemed we went in with no counter plan. On the other hand we were all at sea when Collingwood started their forward forays from defence. 

I thought we would have sorted it out already after the early losses. 

 

[deanox 8,510]

4 hours ago, John Demonic said:

On the contrary, i thought we were only in it at quarter time due to some lucky free kicks.

That's crazy.  Free kicks were 10-3 their way at quarter time.  And that doesn't consider the ones that should have been paid like their throw in the goal square. 

[beelzebub 22,225]

8 hours ago, hemingway said:

Agreed, the Pies were very adept at taking our players out of the contest and when the ball was loose, you would see at least 1 or 2 pie players shepherding a Demon away from the ball particularly in the air. 

Must be a strong priority in training drills because they were very slick and avoided giving away frees.  

And that goes to coaching. 

We were outfoxed...and had no comeback from the box... pretty average stuff.

Have only managed a couple of quarters on replays...but testimonials from others ring true watching these..

Smacks of flat track bullying and no plan B when countering decent opposition.

Not a lot's changed in some important areas.

Narrative from club after game is echoing past rubbish....but that's what pressers and player commentary is...meh

We look good playing our game.... it's a bit naieve.

[dpositive 1,547]

Have agreed with many of this thread.

Beaten by a team confident they could drop, throw , block, scrag, indeed act with no impediment from the umpires. The umpires threw the ball up inordinately quickly and responded to the report in the age to create  quick moving high scoring game. Play on always preferred to keep the ball moving. Oh and of course "it helps if Collingwood are up and about".

We may have been destined never to win but the game exposed some simple faults that must be remedied.

Sheperd the ball carrier. Especially if you have given it to him.

Kick the ball low and flat, not high to allow two opposition players to join the contest.

Man up when they have the ball, provide an option running to space when we have the ball

place the ball in front of your teammate so he can run on to the ball.

Only one player needs to fly for the ball. If against two opponents then force the contest and bring the ballcould have used Frost pace off backline.

wasnt disappointed with Pedersen in forward but we didn't seem as effective when he was on the ball. Maybe needs more time to play this role.

Trac is a burst player and did perform that role. Brayshaw was wasted in tagging role.

We need to be able to play with intensity for four quarters , this is the emerging trend in successful sides. We can still win the flag if we remember and respond to this loss with an improved focus against Port.

[Binmans PA 25,890]

8 hours ago, Dee Zephyr said:

Watching near the fence behind Punt Rd goals the bolded bit stuck out the most. Collingwood did it well and we took no risk in trying to open it up. Carbon copy of the Hawks and Tigers games yet it seemed we went in with no counter plan. On the other hand we were all at sea when Collingwood started their forward forays from defence. 

I thought we would have sorted it out already after the early losses. 

 

Pretty staggering, given the exists of all 4 teams to beat us on the G have been almost identical. That is, a short kick in to compress our press and then boom, over the top of our press.

Since the early games we've placed our anchor a lot deeper but we haven't fixed up the front of the ground, where our forwards give easy exists to the opposition. Then maybe the common denominator here is games in which we refuse to work hard and choke a bit.

Still, it'd be nice if we had another system that slowed the game down or was capable of soaking up pressure and then hitting on the counter. This system would close the flood gates and shut the game down if we're exposed to top 4, finals-like pressure.

[titan_uranus 22,219]

16 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Another 19 hours on the road driving to Melbourne for the match and return. For nothing, other than to watch the wheels fall off and the experience within the team fail once again to steer the game. Umpires did their bit to set up the confidence of the Filth but this time they kept it going all match. It was over, as a game, by the 20 min mark of the first quarter - the best that the MFC could do was to stay in dangerously protected touch for a short while, afterward, lacking players prepared to win the ball, move to the ball, look up for opportunity. Less than a handful played well with determination; their work ethic was wasted by potential receivers. The Filth were too tall and mobile ALL OVER THE GROUND and showed a far greater intent all game. My top 5 MFC players:

• TMAc
• HIbberd
• Hannan
• Spargo
• Pedersen

ANB and Clarrie severely negated or tagged; Jones ran around in circles; Viney needs a few more weeks of game preparation and readiness; Jordan was very ineffective; Vince could have done much more; JSmith showed glimpses but match conditioning has not yet kicked in; Jetta was good; Frosty was needed (height, mobility, leap, carry, toughness); Oscar had a form drop; overall, too many passengers and onlookers, not enough protection and space.

Really?

On what criteria do these two make your top 5?

8 hours ago, deanox said:

That's crazy.  Free kicks were 10-3 their way at quarter time.  And that doesn't consider the ones that should have been paid like their throw in the goal square. 

Agreed. The momentum in the first quarter was partly pushed in their direction due to the umpiring - a combination of them being paid everything under the sun and us missing out on some blatant free kicks (the throw in the goal square which gave them a goal was one obvious one).

[Brisbanedemonfan 25]

Another thought that occurred to me overnight was that Buckley has essentially double the experience as a coach to Goodwin. Just as much as any new player, stepping into the role as a head coach requires learning on the job. So yes Goodwin was outcoached, he'll learn from it just the same as the players will. He made poor team selections, put players in roles they aren't suited too, and he didn't change the game plan when things went wrong quick enough or well enough. He'll learn, he'll add it to his memory bank, he will learn and get better just like any other new player. 

[Deemania since 56 6,119]

7 hours ago, dpositive said:

Have agreed with many of this thread.

Beaten by a team confident they could drop, throw , block, scrag, indeed act with no impediment from the umpires. The umpires threw the ball up inordinately quickly and responded to the report in the age to create  quick moving high scoring game. Play on always preferred to keep the ball moving. Oh and of course "it helps if Collingwood are up and about".

We may have been destined never to win but the game exposed some simple faults that must be remedied.

Shepherd the ball carrier. Especially if you have given it to him.

Kick the ball low and flat, not high to allow two opposition players to join the contest.

Man up when they have the ball, provide an option running to space when we have the ball

place the ball in front of your teammate so he can run on to the ball.

Only one player needs to fly for the ball. If against two opponents then force the contest and bring the ballcould have used Frost pace off backline.

wasnt disappointed with Pedersen in forward but we didn't seem as effective when he was on the ball. Maybe needs more time to play this role.

Trac is a burst player and did perform that role. Brayshaw was wasted in tagging role.

We need to be able to play with intensity for four quarters , this is the emerging trend in successful sides. We can still win the flag if we remember and respond to this loss with an improved focus against Port.

Very good synopsis and counter advisory in so many areas of our game that was displayed miserably against the Filth - but these have been lingering doubts across the supporter base for a long time, so it seems as if less has been learned than we had supposed. The net effect is not far away but reinforcement is needed now to consolidate a finals position. Good work, dpositive.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

9 minutes ago, Brisbanedemonfan said:

Another thought that occurred to me overnight was that Buckley has essentially double the experience as a coach to Goodwin. Just as much as any new player, stepping into the role as a head coach requires learning on the job.

It's a fair point, BD.  When you think about it, how many new senior coaches come in and have instant success?  Chris Scott is the exception to the rule as he inherited an unbelievable list, as is John Longmire, but coaches like Buckley, Hardwick, Hinkley, Richardson, Bolton etc have taken, and are still taking in some cases, time to build their knowledge, list and ability to take on the best coaches in the game.

Goodwin has inherited a very good list, but like any second year coach, he is still learning the caper.  He's been beaten this season by 4 very experienced coaches - Clarkson, Scott, Hardwick and now Buckley.  I don't think that's just coincidence.  He will no doubt be learning from these experiences and will become a better coach for it.

[Willmoy1947 3,760]

17 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

We laugh at the 'brown paper bag filled with money' syndrome but it was repeatedly obvious that the major reason we lost the the game was the result of umpiring decisions when we were clearly in ascendancy or in attack. As Robt Walls said, 'Melbourne are playing the better football but it is being interrupted...', and this was allowed to take place by the umpires' decision-making. There is something corrupt in the AFL umpiring system - something of which we are not privvy.

Equalisation, code name for Umpire relevance.....

[Willmoy1947 3,760]

.......and also "hello Umpires, we are allowed to play on, aren't we, just like Wobbles". They know in advance beforehand because it was teed up with the Umpires before the game by bucks.........

[Willmoy1947 3,760]

...and another one. The contrast standard between Adelaide in Alice and this game by the Umpires was stark.

[Willmoy1947 3,760]

I don't care if he doesn't get a kick, but bring back Buggy for these games and slap him hard on one of their ball mags..... 

[Clintosaurus 6,408]

2 hours ago, willmoy said:

.......and also "hello Umpires, we are allowed to play on, aren't we, just like Wobbles". They know in advance beforehand because it was teed up with the Umpires before the game by bucks.........

My wife thinks all elite level sport is rigged, and there is no point in getting angry when your team loses as the result was decided before the game. I still get angry.

[Vagg 2,422]

18 hours ago, John Demonic said:

Would we have matched anything they offered though?

Maybe my memory is failing.  But, didn't we delist Dunny?

[Cards13 9,117]

On 6/11/2018 at 6:15 PM, MurDoc516 said:

Without being over the top. Our players can't just get faster. Collingwood have so many pacey runners with great engines. I also think if we had Lever and some of the team showed up and supported Oliver and T. Mac the game is much closer.

It’s speed of ball movement, if we can get the ball out of the congestion with that 1 extra handball or kick to a player in space were away. The Pies shut that down and closed us in, if we can get that 1 extra things look a little different for us, unfortunately this year we have yet to break that code.

[Robot Devil 1,895]

51 minutes ago, Clintosaurus said:

My wife thinks all elite level sport is rigged, and there is no point in getting angry when your team loses as the result was decided before the game. I still get angry.

My wife can’t believe how much I have emotionally invested in a football game. 

After 4 decades I’m not sure I can break the cycle. 

[Engorged Onion 9,224]

39 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

It’s speed of ball movement, if we can get the ball out of the congestion with that 1 extra handball or kick to a player in space were away. The Pies shut that down and closed us in, if we can get that 1 extra things look a little different for us, unfortunately this year we have yet to break that code.

100% @Cards13... the inability to win the ball and get a player into space was fundamentally THE problem... 

Goodwin can coach (game day as well)

The system is great.... we're building flexibility

and

Players sometimes have crap games, sometimes numerous on the one day...

it'll all be ok.

[hemingway 7,583]

59 minutes ago, Clintosaurus said:

My wife thinks all elite level sport is rigged, and there is no point in getting angry when your team loses as the result was decided before the game. I still get angry.

Likewise Clint, I get frustrated but recognize the validity of her opinion. 

The competition is increasingly under threat from big business interests, gambling and so on. Where big money is involved corruption and the corrupted are lurking in the shadows. 

As the old saying goes, society consists of the cheaters and the cheated. 

[DeleteUser 638]

19 minutes ago, Robot Devil said:

My wife can’t believe how much I have emotionally invested in a football game. 

After 4 decades I’m not sure I can break the cycle. 

Same, what started as corn chips, frothies and a carnival friendly atmosphere of Dees (father and son) V pIes (wife) quickly devolved into matrimonial disharmony due to my inability to not take it so seriously

[John Crow Batty 8,221]

22 minutes ago, Robot Devil said:

My wife can’t believe how much I have emotionally invested in a football game. 

After 4 decades I’m not sure I can break the cycle. 

Since you invested so much over the years it’s best to continue. Drop out and you have guaranteed to have lost already. Stick around and and it might or might not pay off eventually. 

[Robot Devil 1,895]

52 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Since you invested so much over the years it’s best to continue. Drop out and you have guaranteed to have lost already. Stick around and and it might or might not pay off eventually. 

I will never drop off the Dees. 

Its more about perspective. I hate it when we lose and the rush I get when we win is huge. 

A few years ago, someone posted on D’land that they wouldn’t want us to thrash teams every week as it would get boring. My response was I would love to win big every week whilst the opposition supporters had to sit there in stony silence as we dismantled them. 

Needless to say I have enjoyed 6 out of the last 7 weeks immensely. 

I want the ultimate rush. 

I want a Premiership. 

And I want us to destroy every other team along the way. 

However, to have so much invested in something you have no control over is a precarious state to be in.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Robot Devil

[sue 8,409]

After a disappoint loss I avoid this thread for a few days because of the inevitable overreaction and wrist slitting that usually occurs.  So I haven't found out what happened to Oscar and when.  Appreciate it if someone will let me know. 

(All I know is that at some stage latish in the game the TV people said he was off with concussion but they never followed it up or showed the incident - too busy having orgasms over C'wood I guess.)

Edited June 13, 2018 by sue

[Crompton's the man 635]

Going home on the tram after the game on Saturday, my wife and I started chatting with a guy about my age, with his brother.

Friendly bloke, interested in the game and like us, a bit subdued about the day.

I commented to him that the game reminded me of one in the Peter Daicos era, early nineties , one to which we had dragged all five of our children and with the same thing happening  outplayed, outscored and the icing on the cake as we walked up the aisle afterwards was to have Collingwood supporters looking down on us yelling 

‘it’s like having all your worst nightmares come true innit ?’

This chap in the tram said ‘ I remember that game  

                                                 I was the coach ‘

He offered me a selfie and a Kleenex

Thanks John Northey -   a real gentleman and a pleasure to talk to.

Just wish we could have met under different circumstances .......

 

[DeleteUser 638]

22 minutes ago, Crompton's the man said:

Going home on the tram after the game on Saturday, my wife and I started chatting with a guy about my age, with his brother.

Friendly bloke, interested in the game and like us, a bit subdued about the day.

I commented to him that the game reminded me of one in the Peter Daicos era, early nineties , one to which we had dragged all five of our children and with the same thing happening  outplayed, outscored and the icing on the cake as we walked up the aisle afterwards was to have Collingwood supporters looking down on us yelling 

‘it’s like having all your worst nightmares come true innit ?’

This chap in the tram said ‘ I remember that game  

                                                 I was the coach ‘

He offered me a selfie and a Kleenex

Thanks John Northey -   a real gentleman and a pleasure to talk to.

Just wish we could have met under different circumstances .......

 

cool story