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Filling the hole left by Jake Lever’s injury

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Was sighing about Lever’s ACL, the Curse and cruelty of the footy gods... and started thinking about how or who is going to cover him in our assault this year..? 

Maybe Oscar can step up and play that role with Frosty drooping in behind him.

Moving Tom back would be wrong...

and I finally thought “how’s Joel Smith travelling?”

Desperate times as they say.

Thoughts on how we cover the loss of Lever? 

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Keep the ball in the forward line

Im not having kittens about this, as good as Lever is. We defend the whole ground well (how often do you see either TMac or Hogan back during a game) and both Nev and Hibbo are strong intercept marks. I hope they give Joel Smith a crack, but I don’t think our season, or even next weeks result, is hanging on the choice.

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3 minutes ago, small but forward said:

Keep the ball in the forward line

Im not having kittens about this, as good as Lever is. We defend the whole ground well (how often do you see either TMac or Hogan back during a game) and both Nev and Hibbo are strong intercept marks. I hope they give Joel Smith a crack, but I don’t think our season, or even next weeks result, is hanging on the choice.

Exactly sbf we have to smash CW midfield and win the clearances

We do that all game and our defences will be good enough

I would like Joel Smith or Frost to take the vacancy

We must concentrate on the midfield battle to win

 

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Frost to negate Cox, which shouldn’t be too hard, releasing Oscar to play a centre half back type role with Fritsch helping with intercept marking and run off half back.

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The only thing I don't want to see is Tom McDonald going back.  The 1-2 punch he has going on with Hogan at the minute is too important and working too well for us to change it.

I think we'll play it safe to begin with and possibly go with Sam Frost for Queen's Birthday as he has been at the club long enough to have some synergy with the other guys playing down there.  If he keeps things simple then I think he'll go okay.

Wouldn't mind Joel Smith either, with Keilty and Petty waiting in the wings if either of the two don't work out.

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Josh Wagner seems largely forgotten in this discussion, I see him as actually the closet like-for-like we have, no he's not as good, in particular as an interceptor, but does play as a taller/creative back. Frost I see as more of a stopper, same as Keilty and Petty, while Joel Smith is probably also similar, he also reminds me a little more like Hibberd. 

I'm guessing it could be a horse for courses type approach, if the opposition tend to use taller forwards then Frost/Keily/Petty and if they go smaller then Wagner/Smith/Hunt.  

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The answer could be two changes in the back half with Frost there to stop a Gorilla like Cox and Wagner or Harmes to play the intercept role.  If that's Wagner which probably makes more sense due to extra cm it leads to a hard call on who misses out and that could be Bernie (who doesn't play either of those roles).

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Lever should be covered by someone fitting the role against which opposition we have. Apparently Wagner was good yesterday ( I'd normally prefer Hunt ) but if Reid looks like playing then maybe Frost.

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I hope we don't over complicate the issue, or try to be too clever as we did with the forward line earlier in the season.

I'm not a massive fan, but Frost surely has to be next in line. Tell him to defend as his first, second and third priorities, and take the first option when he has the ball, and he'll be fine. It is not his job to be taking on five opponents and running 60 metres every time he gets the ball.

 

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5 minutes ago, poita said:

I hope we don't over complicate the issue, or try to be too clever as we did with the forward line earlier in the season.

I'm not a massive fan, but Frost surely has to be next in line. Tell him to defend as his first, second and third priorities, and take the first option when he has the ball, and he'll be fine. It is not his job to be taking on five opponents and running 60 metres every time he gets the ball.

 

Yeah this is what I’m starting to think also, Frost next in line, simple replacement of Lever and doesn’t upset moving the team around too much, structurally staying the same.

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23 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Yeah this is what I’m starting to think also, Frost next in line, simple replacement of Lever and doesn’t upset moving the team around too much, structurally staying the same.

 except, I can't see Frost as the like for like replacement for Lever. I see him as a replacement for OMac. I know they play more as flankers but Wagner and J Smith are the ones that could try to play Lever's role. I don't know enough about Keilty for me to comment, and Petty is still finding his way..

Other thing that I thought could e a possibility is that Hibberd plays more the role that Lever was playing, and Hunt returns to the side. Collingwood only really have Mason Cox as the big tall at the moment in the forward line, which OMac should be able to handle. Even if Reid came in, he's not a monster forward. The rest of their forward line, Hoskin-Elliot, De Goey, Mayne etc should not see us need Frost to come in.  

 

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I said the other day that where we will miss Lever the most is in his leadership and ability to be the guy who positions the others in the back line. Watching him on game day you see him marshalling the troops, calling guys back or sending them to the other side of the ground to take the cross ball. That can't be easily replaced.

I think that aspect of his game will be missed most.

Whilst his marking courage and intercepts are great I believe that that is just adding strings to our bow and not the reason we are winning.

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we have no replacement for Lever. I hope we don't change our structure by bringing in a tall stopper type defender.  We need that intercept player. pick the bloke who is best and marking/reading the play/distribution and put him in Lever's spot. I would think outside the square - maybe Hibbo? With most teams these days its not about being tall its about being in the right spot and kicking well.

I'd bring in Hunt to replace Hibbo's run and have Hibbo as the Floater.  Frost comes in if we play a team with several talls

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Posted (edited)

I'm interested in why so many believe Frost is the answer? 

He's been trialled in all positions, has been on the list for a number of years and is still playing at Casey. 

For a backline that needs all the composure it can get, I can't understand why posters want a bloke who is prone to every couch killer in the book? 

I would rather lose a few centimetres and play a smaller backline than have that galoot running around. He is not a footballer and doesn't have a footballers brain. 

If we decide to go like-for-like, I'd rather give Keilty a go for a couple of weeks to see what he's like. He's on the list, give him a shot at the big time and on the big stage. He strikes me as a more natural intercept defender. 

We know what we'll get from Frost. And it's far too inconsistent. Time to try Keilty. 

Edited by stevethemanjordan
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I've got a feeling we will bring in Declan Keilty to have first crack at the Lever role. While the loss will definitely hurt, if he can come in and play a role for the team then we should be able to cover this.

Hibberd will be required to step up in the intercept role in Lever's absence.

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2 hours ago, PaulRB said:

Was sighing about Lever’s ACL, the Curse and cruelty of the footy gods... and started thinking about how or who is going to cover him in our assault this year..? 

Maybe Oscar can step up and play that role with Frosty drooping in behind him.

Moving Tom back would be wrong...

and I finally thought “how’s Joel Smith travelling?”

Desperate times as they say.

Thoughts on how we cover the loss of Lever? 

I reckon Oscar could play Lever's role quite well, he reads the play well, has good hands and is a good decision maker/kick. Frost may play better if his sole focus is to handle the oppositions key forward. 

Re Collingwood Frost would take Cox and Gawn may follow Grundy forward. Collingwoods most damaging forwards are medium types and Hibbo and Jetta would get the job on these. 

Joel Smith could get the nod but if Oscar goes down we are a bit exposed. 

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2 minutes ago, Is Dom Is Good said:

I've got a feeling we will bring in Declan Keilty to have first crack at the Lever role. While the loss will definitely hurt, if he can come in and play a role for the team then we should be able to cover this.

Hibberd will be required to step up in the intercept role in Lever's absence.

Havent seen Kielty but would be interesting to hear how he is going in the VFL. I dont see Hibberd as an interceptor but rather an aggressive mid sized defender who is excellent at ground level. Frost is essentially a poor insurance policy if Oscar goes down. 

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I reckon it will be Smith this week but there will be a bit of changing based on opposition forward structures.

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Posted (edited)

I think it is as simple as bringing Frost in and making sure h understands his role. This can be done by our coaches. Frost must not have any licence to run-off when he intercepts. It is as simple as that. He marks, he must be instructed to settle and go back and take his kick or give hands off to a player going round his back. That has to be read to him in no uncertain terms. I don't care if he has to kick it down the line every time, but if he comes in and takes off like a headless chook, then he will be a liability. My worry is, surely he has been told this before, but it appears as though this take off at all costs is part of his DNA. It has benefits when it comes off, but the lack of awareness is a coach/fan killer. I think he has the attributes but the run-off role should be given to others. 

Edited by Leoncelli_36

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One things for sure - it's going to be discussed for the next 6 days until the team is confirmed on Sunday arvo.  It's going to feel like an eternity until then.

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5 minutes ago, Is Dom Is Good said:

I've got a feeling we will bring in Declan Keilty to have first crack at the Lever role.

You might be right, Dom.

Isn't Keiltys main strength his intercept/aerial/marking ability?  At 194 cms/95 kgs hes a great size too.

Imagine debuting on Queens Birthday, and this one will be one of the biggest ever.  

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

I think it is as simple as bringing Frost in and making sure h understands his role. This can be done by our coaches. Frost must not have any licence to run-off when he intercepts. It is as simple as that. He marks, he must be instructed to settle and go back and take his kick or give hands off to a player going round his back. That has to be read to him in no uncertain terms. I don't care if he has to kick it down the line every time, but if he comes in and takes off like a headless chook, then he will be a liability. My worry is, surely he has been told this before, but it appears as this take off at all costs is part of his DNA. It has benefits when it comes off, but the lack of awareness is a coach/fan killer. I think he has the attributes but the run-off role should be given to others. 

Frost is not that player. His strengths are his speed and athleticism. Not intercept marking, positioning and smarts. 

You need those three qualities to play that role and he doesn't have them. 

Keilty is the man. 

Edited by stevethemanjordan
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4 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Frost is not that player. He's strengths are his speed and athleticism. Not intercept marking, positioning and smarts. 

You need those three qualities to play that role and he doesn't have them. 

Keilty is the man. 

I'm assuming you've seen enough of him to make the case that he has the intercept marking, positioning and smarts skills to fill the void left by Jake?

I don't necessarily disagree that Frost doesn't exactly play the same role Lever does, but Lever is elite and anybody we bring in is going to fall short in those categories.

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Posted (edited)

What no one has said is that after Lever went off in the first quarter, Harmes stepped in and played the role to perfection. What if we stick with Harmes in that role as he plays tall and can run off as well?

We could then add another midfield runner like Stretch or Hunt.

Runnng mids are Collingwood’s strength and we should be looking at a plan to combat this instead of just thinking how to replace Jake.

Edited by DeeZee
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3 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

What no one has said is that after Lever went off in the first quarter, Harmes stepped in and played the role to perfection. What if we stick with Harmes I’m that role as he plays tall and can run off as well?

 

Who will be our 2nd tall defender?  Harmes is 185 cms, hes nowhere near Levers height.

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