Filling the hole left by Jake Lever’s injury

[monoccular 16,012]

7 minutes ago, dworship said:

In part, this is why I believe Wagner will be the one to come in.

INVHO he may fill the intercept spoiler rôle but disposal is a concern. 

[layzie 28,514]

It's looking like Frost will get the keys first but I'm warming to the idea of Keilty. Good size and from I've seen good in the air. Would like to see it 

[Bonkers 910]

Lots of people advocating for Hibberd to fill Levers role. Personally I don't rate him as a one on one defender in the air. He has greater value to the side running off his opponent to provide rebound/drive and winning the ball in ground level contests. Take that away from our game and we have a lot less attacking drive moving the ball forward. We have no one to replace Hibberd adequately either, Hunt could be that player but right at this moment he isn't based on form.

Frost as a lock down defender has value in One on one contests. The problem is he loses positioning too easily and gets sucked up the ground too often for mine. He also doesn't seem to have awareness, reliable foot skills or footy smarts / game sense. Based on that info it's everything that Lever has got but Frost doesn't. Lever has been able to act as the defensive general, I can't see Frost fulfilling those duties either. Frost could move to Oscars position, but based on his decision making I wouldn't like to see it happen.

That would leave J.Smith, Keilty, Petty and then a big roll of the dice with someone like Weideman. I can't see Weideman playing there without playing that role in the ressies first. Petty is too inexperienced perhaps at this stage and needs more development. Then it's a coin toss of J.Smith and Keilty. 

I really haven't seen much of either Smith or Keilty. Smith was impressive last year before he was injured. He may be able to play Lever's role if he just focuses on keeping things simple, might have to leave the backline general role to Lewis though. Keilty is an interesting one, hasn't banged the door down for selection but has size and relatively dependable with skills and decision making?

 

 

[torpedo 33]

Bernie Vince?

[nosoupforme 3,085]

We never had Lever last season and were travelling ok and if it wasn't for our injuries we would have made the Finals no doubt in my mind. However  we can do well and cover Lever firstly with Frosty and maybe with a Joel Smith or Declan kielty. Or does Goodwin have other ideas? Good there be a smoky? We will miss Jake however there might be a making of another on our list.

[Binmans PA 25,894]

11 hours ago, ProDee said:

You've nailed my views exactly. 

I don't subscribe to the theory that Lever needs to be replaced with a tall.

No disrespect to Frost, Keilty, etc., but I'd be asking the footy astute Hibberd to play the intercept role and bring in Hunt to provide run off half back (assuming he's got his confidence/form back). 

I don't have any faith in the likes of Frost to play the intercept role.  And I don't want him to be a pivotal decision making, which is what's required from Lever's role.

Allowing Hibberd to take up that role doesn't mess too much with our defensive structures and Hibberd plays tall anyway.

Hunt's best footy was always off half back and he got squeezed out of that role with the inclusions of Vince, Lewis and Salem behind the ball.

There may be the odd game where matchups dictate that a Frost comes in, but not too many.

Goody may have an entirely different view to mine, so I'll watch selection with interest.

I'd mostly agree with this, although I've found Hunt slightly suspect one-on-one in the air and he'd certainly be placed in this position playing as third defender. We might be able to get away with it. Not sure if it works all year though.

[Micksdemons 131]

2 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

I believe they have a rule that if you are rendered unconscious it is an automatic sit out for one week.

The 8 day break could come  into play but I doubt it

No Reiwolt proves that's rubbish !

Edited June 4, 2018 by Micksdemons

[Gator 16,891]

14 minutes ago, A F said:

I'd mostly agree with this, although I've found Hunt slightly suspect one-on-one in the air and he'd certainly be placed in this position playing as third defender. We might be able to get away with it. Not sure if it works all year though.

Yes, it's hard to know what they'll do.

I think it will change through the course of the year as they work out what works best.

[goodwindees 2,117]

I don’t want any debutants (Keilty or Petty) on Queens Birthday. 

Lever replacement must come from either Frost, Hunt, Wagner or J Smith.

Debut Keilty against a bottom 4 side, not the Filth on QB. 

[spirit of norm smith 12,839]

Sam frost 

[Billy 1,951]

Just watched Jake on Talking Footy, great level headed young fella & have no doubt he’ll come back better than ever

[rjay 23,864]

3 hours ago, binman said:

On the other hand as Drnkn167 points out at 191 cms he's not tall,

Josh Gibson played a similar role at the Hawks for years and he's only 189cm.

They ran good rebound defenders, Josh as the intercept/spoiler and 1 key defender.

Smith could well be the man for the job...

[w00dy 146]

He's moved from the forward line to the midfield and done well... Could Fritsch play the role? Did he play back at all at Casey? 

A bit shorter but good overhead. Good disposal and reads the ball well.  Would allow one of our mids or forwards in form to come into the team.  

Otherwise I'd give Pedo a go. 

[Winners at last 4,687]

Hmm, there are a few problems with some of the suggested replacements. Pedo has been a great servant of the club in his few years, but is pretty much cooked. Frost has the problem of not being good enough. As for Wagner, same problem. I suggest Hibbert as the player to replace Lever, and bring in someone else to take Hibbert's position. Joel Smith, Kielty, Petty or Hunt. 

[P-man 13,154]

Roos thinks Frost will come in with Hibberd to play the loose intercepting role.

[WERRIDEE 5,198]

The Filth's forwards

HF: DeGoey, Mihocek, Hoskin-Elliott

F: Thomas, Cox, Mayne

The Dees backs

HB: Hibberd, J.Smith, Jetta

B: Lewis, O.McDonald, Vince

J.Smith is only 1 cm shorter than Mihocek.

Smith has to come in Frost has had his chances and Petty and Keilty haven't done enough at VFL level. 

[WERRIDEE 5,198]

9 minutes ago, P-man said:

Roos thinks Frost will come in with Hibberd to play the loose intercepting role.

Roos said he hasn't been watching Casey games so he's speculating like everybody else.

[KingDingAling 3,589]

36 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

Roos said he hasn't been watching Casey games so he's speculating like everybody else.

In other words, if Frost is in form Roos would bring him in.

Trouble with many of the guys being speculated to fill the role for Lever (Frost, Smith and Keilty) is that none of them are in good enough form to be promoted. The is a massive gulf in quality between the VFL and the AFL, and the fact of the matter is - if you cannot dominate the VFL then you shouldn't get a game in the AFL. It is a shame Pederson most likely won't be available to fill Lever's role this week. I would be looking to promote Billy Stretch and use Bernie Vince as a key defender for a week. We need to be rewarding players who are dominating VFL, and not giving games to players who can't just because they fill a need.

[Rogue 585]

4 hours ago, KingDingAling said:

It is a shame Pederson most likely won't be available to fill Lever's role this week.

Pedersen can't fill Lever's role any week.

(And I'm a guy who rates Pedo reasonable highly; enough to think there's no question he's better value ATM than Weid, anyway).

[Binmans PA 25,894]

8 hours ago, P-man said:

Roos thinks Frost will come in with Hibberd to play the loose intercepting role.

He's probably right. Frost v Hunt for the rebound position. Both quick, poor kicks and poor decision makers. But at least Frost has the versatility of height. Hunt doesn't.

[Young Blood 1,975]

I still think it will be Wagner. It seems like the coaching staff have more trust in him then Frost and Smith. Wagner had a pretty solid start to the season but was squeezed out due to midfield depth pushing the likes of Bernie and Lewis back. At 189cm he competes well in the air and I think we'll continue to be valuing ball use across the back line which we have done so well in the last 5-6 games. He kicks really well and his pressure across most of the first games of the season was great (good tackle numbers also). Frost can break the lines but its that first kick out to the corridor or halfback that has been opening games up for us which Wagner has the ability to do.

Oscar to look after Cox, Hibberd to play loose role with Nev and Wagner pressure/rebounding defenders.

[Deemania since 56 6,122]

9 hours ago, P-man said:

Roos thinks Frost will come in with Hibberd to play the loose intercepting role.

This is realistic; it is the blocking that is really important to slow or prevent the Filth progressing through the midline. The intercept / clearing role can be capably performed by Hibberd (without disruption to the set-up in defence) and the few crumbers/halfbackflks and midfielders with fallbacks to Lewis and Vince where steerage is going to be needed. Wagner, to me, is one who is capable and strong enough to provide support clearances in tandem with Frost and Hibberd, in the first instance. 

[The Demon 2565 28]

13 hours ago, Wunders said:

I can't help but feel that we lost those early games because we had people like Wagner, Frost & Hunt in the team. I think we struck gold by dropping them all and going on this 6 week winning run. I'm not saying they are bad, more that they all have a weakness compared to Lever & the way we play (i.e. Playing them attenuated the way we play now - although maybe it was all T-mac coming back).

I'd personally like to see Petty (early season reports said he reads the ball really well and takes some nice intercept marks), Smith (i think he will get the game & i'm excited to see what he can do) or Weid (played down back - because i like weid but don't want him back in the forward line as its functioning atm). Even pedo to the defense would work (i could see pedo as a McGovern marking type - but poorer in quality).

In the end, if we set up well and dominate the middle then the defense won't have to do much (hence it won't matter as much who we bring in).

Go Dees!

 

The way we've been playing over the last 6 weeks relies on setting up our attacks from defence - I think I read somewhere that we scored 100+ points from turnovers against the blues and the crows? That's why guys like Frost and Hunt can't get a game (aside from the obvious fact that turnovers close to your goal are more likely to result in a goal against), their turnovers kicking the ball up the line will rob us of the momentum when moving the ball forward

Pedo is a reliable kick but not necessarily a damaging one. In terms of a floating or intercept defender he's a good option in the sense that he has a good footy brain and decent size, but collingwood has quite a mobile midfield these days so safe kicks out of defense are likely to be shut down. Weid could be an inspired choice, will force him into more contests etc., but big risk to trial someone is a position they've never played in such a crucial game (win this week and we have a genuine claim on top 4 contention)

I don't know enough about the current form of guys down at Casey, but Smith certainly struck me as one with the right attacking mindset in his brief exposure at the top level. As others have commented, his basketball background is a real asset as far as fitting into a team structure goes, and he 'plays tall' as the cliche goes so his size won't be a problem - the Pies most dangerous forwards are all mid-sized too so athleticism is much more important than height is for this game at least 

Wagner showed a bit early in the year, and I don't recall recoiling in horror when he disposed of the ball so that at least has him ahead of Frost, so I think he could be another worth considering. Keilty and Petty to debut on the big stage seems an unnecessary risk *cough* Watts in 2009 *cough* when there are other options who have a genuine claim to the position and exposure at the top level already

Obviously Plan A will be to dominate them out of the middle and not give our defenders too much work to do, but Grundy is in excellent form at the moment so they will be getting their fair share of opportunities from stoppages, not to mention their own ability to move the ball quickly from turnovers

[DeleteUser 638]

33 minutes ago, The Demon 2565 said:

The way we've been playing over the last 6 weeks relies on setting up our attacks from defence - I think I read somewhere that we scored 100+ points from turnovers against the blues and the crows? That's why guys like Frost and Hunt can't get a game (aside from the obvious fact that turnovers close to your goal are more likely to result in a goal against), their turnovers kicking the ball up the line will rob us of the momentum when moving the ball forward

Pedo is a reliable kick but not necessarily a damaging one. In terms of a floating or intercept defender he's a good option in the sense that he has a good footy brain and decent size, but collingwood has quite a mobile midfield these days so safe kicks out of defense are likely to be shut down. Weid could be an inspired choice, will force him into more contests etc., but big risk to trial someone is a position they've never played in such a crucial game (win this week and we have a genuine claim on top 4 contention)

I don't know enough about the current form of guys down at Casey, but Smith certainly struck me as one with the right attacking mindset in his brief exposure at the top level. As others have commented, his basketball background is a real asset as far as fitting into a team structure goes, and he 'plays tall' as the cliche goes so his size won't be a problem - the Pies most dangerous forwards are all mid-sized too so athleticism is much more important than height is for this game at least 

Wagner showed a bit early in the year, and I don't recall recoiling in horror when he disposed of the ball so that at least has him ahead of Frost, so I think he could be another worth considering. Keilty and Petty to debut on the big stage seems an unnecessary risk *cough* Watts in 2009 *cough* when there are other options who have a genuine claim to the position and exposure at the top level already

Obviously Plan A will be to dominate them out of the middle and not give our defenders too much work to do, but Grundy is in excellent form at the moment so they will be getting their fair share of opportunities from stoppages, not to mention their own ability to move the ball quickly from turnovers

Great precis.

I haven't seen enough Casey, or Pedersen in defence, but I think you're right. From what I have seen, in this order, Smith, Wagner, Weid.

Weid could be an inspired choice. He has had game time this year and may not be overawed.

Can't recall what big games Wagner and Smith played last / this year but it's going to be nerve wracking.

[TGR 1,367]

I think us MFC supporters (especially our FD) overrate Lever and underrate Frost.  Brian Taylor elevated Stringer to AA-status, and I reckon, did the same with Lever.

 

 

Good opportunity for Frost now.  He needs to ignore the groans of the simpletons when he gets caught HTB, and continue to grow and take risks.