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Demon17

Goal Kicking reliability on SEN

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The Champion Data boys on SEN discussed the psychology of goal kicking - its mainly in the head unless a player is technically deficient which can be fixed.

They named the worst AFL 5 players who have had at least 10 shots for goal this year.

2nd worst?..... Christian Petracca. (I think a saints player was the worst)

We didn't have a top five representative.

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3 minutes ago, Demon17 said:

The Champion Data boys on SEN discussed the psychology of goal kicking - its mainly in the head unless a player is technically deficient which can be fixed.

They named the worst AFL 5 players who have had at least 10 shots for goal this year.

2nd worst?..... Christian Petracca. (I think a saints player was the worst)

We didn't have a top five representative.

We didn't have a represntative in the best top 5?  Tom McDonald mustn't have had enough shots yet, he'd have to be up there.  Don't think I've seen him miss so far this year.

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11 minutes ago, Demon17 said:

The Champion Data boys on SEN discussed the psychology of goal kicking - its mainly in the head unless a player is technically deficient which can be fixed.

They named the worst AFL 5 players who have had at least 10 shots for goal this year.

2nd worst?..... Christian Petracca. (I think a saints player was the worst)

We didn't have a top five representative.

Fairly sure Jack Billings at the Saints is the worst, and by a long way.

Was the segment about set shots at goal or all goals?  

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I feel as though our kicking for goal hasn't been too bad so far this year.  

Jesse Hogan has been one who has improved - he has 20 goals and 8 behinds for the season which is a pretty good strike rate when you consider some of the troubles he had kicking for goal a few years back.

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40 minutes ago, BigFez said:

We didn't have a represntative in the best top 5?  Tom McDonald mustn't have had enough shots yet, he'd have to be up there.  Don't think I've seen him miss so far this year.

Tom missed a snap on his left foot against the Suns, otherwise he hasn't missed.

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21 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I feel as though our kicking for goal hasn't been too bad so far this year.  

Jesse Hogan has been one who has improved - he has 20 goals and 8 behinds for the season which is a pretty good strike rate when you consider some of the troubles he had kicking for goal a few years back.

Against Richmond and then Hawthorn, it was the key reason why we lost IMO. We couldn't put scoreboard pressure on the opposition. Against Richmond we didn't look like kicking straight in the first half when we were all over them. Again, against Hawthorn, when we dominated them in that first quarter, we couldn't put it on the scoreboard.

I feel like our inaccuracy is incredibly poor going on previous years. Even under Neeld, we were a lot more accurate. 

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Tommy McDonald has only had 9 shots for 8.1.

Petracca was in the top 10 most accurate last year, as was Melksham who has also struggled this year. McDonald and Hogan were also in the top 10 and look to have kept up their form (touch wood).

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Petracca is a shocking set shot. He is 1.7 this year from memory. Really not good enough.

TMac on the other hand... he can't miss!

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1 minute ago, Jaded said:

Petracca is a shocking set shot. He is 1.7 this year from memory. Really not good enough.

TMac on the other hand... he can't miss!

Yet he was 26.6 last year. It's in his head because his technique is actually quite sound as he demonstrated last year.

Melksham has an 'idiosyncratic' technique that he seemed to be able to tame last year but is struggling with this year. 

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I think the key thing with Trac is he tends to get the ball along the wing, flanks and pockets. Most of his set shots seem to be on tight angles.

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1 hour ago, Thrice said:

Yet he was 26.6 last year. It's in his head because his technique is actually quite sound as he demonstrated last year.

Melksham has an 'idiosyncratic' technique that he seemed to be able to tame last year but is struggling with this year. 

On the weekend Melksham ran towards the left as he came in and missed them to that side. He did this on at least the first two shots that I remember. 

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If players stopped trying to be fancy and kicked drop punts at goal the problem would rectify quite quickly.

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id be interested @Demon17to know what they discussed in particular about the psychology of goal kicking. I did just jump on sen online to get a link to it...no luck. 

FWIW - the anxiety around missing/judgement from others when I  miss, always governs the 'safety behaviour'. This may look different for each individual. Typically though it looks like not kicking fully through the ball. This make sense as the brain is trying to 'guide' the ball through...and reduce discomfort whilst the action is occurring...however the short term relief increases in more stress because it means you're actually LESS likely to get the outcome that you are after...the goal. 

It'll be helpful for  CP5 to be more willing to kick  the ball as he would if he was confidence (smooth flow, kick fully) with the anxiety...and no doubt he is well aware of how [censored] he is going, thus amplifing the need to control the kick and other safety behaviours etc etc... and on the kicking yips goes, because he gets more evidence that he hasn't kicked one yet. 

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This is being over analysed. Good goal kicking is a function of a controlled ball drop and timing ie. when the foot hits the ball in the right configuration. Requires repetitions starting from close in.

Looking to pass off, removing mouth guards and watching the count down clock are unnecessary distractions and should be avoided. 30 seconds to start a run up is messing with their minds. The best goal kickers from the past would kick as soon as they were settled and balanced.

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3 hours ago, Demon17 said:

The Champion Data boys on SEN discussed the psychology of goal kicking - its mainly in the head unless a player is technically deficient which can be fixed.

They named the worst AFL 5 players who have had at least 10 shots for goal this year.

2nd worst?..... Christian Petracca. (I think a saints player was the worst)

We didn't have a top five representative.

Are we talking all shots on goal, or just set shots?

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3 hours ago, A F said:

Against Richmond and then Hawthorn, it was the key reason why we lost IMO. We couldn't put scoreboard pressure on the opposition. Against Richmond we didn't look like kicking straight in the first half when we were all over them. Again, against Hawthorn, when we dominated them in that first quarter, we couldn't put it on the scoreboard.

I feel like our inaccuracy is incredibly poor going on previous years. Even under Neeld, we were a lot more accurate. 

I would say that richmond and hawthorn's ability to get an easy shot at goal was the key factor here. In those games they were able to get out the back and have an easy shot at goal with little to no pressure. Most of our shots were grubby kicks in packs where the kicker was being tackled and off balance. 

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1 hour ago, Gorgoroth said:

On the weekend Melksham ran towards the left as he came in and missed them to that side. He did this on at least the first two shots that I remember. 

@Grapeviney and I were right behind Melksham during the warm up and he missed every single set shot for goal of the 6 or 7 that I saw. It was just one of those days for him. He just didn't have his kicking boots on. Normally he is an excellent shot for goal.

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4 hours ago, Demon17 said:

The Champion Data boys on SEN discussed the psychology of goal kicking - its mainly in the head unless a player is technically deficient which can be fixed.

They named the worst AFL 5 players who have had at least 10 shots for goal this year.

2nd worst?..... Christian Petracca. (I think a saints player was the worst)

We didn't have a top five representative.

That's cause Tom McDonald has been out hurt.

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4 hours ago, Demon17 said:

The Champion Data boys on SEN discussed the psychology of goal kicking - its mainly in the head unless a player is technically deficient which can be fixed.

They named the worst AFL 5 players who have had at least 10 shots for goal this year.

2nd worst?..... Christian Petracca. (I think a saints player was the worst)

We didn't have a top five representative.

That's cause Tom McDonald has been out hurt.

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4 hours ago, Jaded said:

Petracca is a shocking set shot. He is 1.7 this year from memory. Really not good enough.

TMac on the other hand... he can't miss!

Yeah. Move over Jack Watts. (oops)

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3 hours ago, Danelska said:

id be interested @Demon17to know what they discussed in particular about the psychology of goal kicking. I did just jump on sen online to get a link to it...no luck. 

FWIW - the anxiety around missing/judgement from others when I  miss, always governs the 'safety behaviour'. This may look different for each individual. Typically though it looks like not kicking fully through the ball. This make sense as the brain is trying to 'guide' the ball through...and reduce discomfort whilst the action is occurring...however the short term relief increases in more stress because it means you're actually LESS likely to get the outcome that you are after...the goal. 

 

The key mental theory discussed was that successful teams have more relaxed goal kickers who are less anxious. They know that if they miss there'll be another opportunity shortly. Lower teams know chances are fewer and need each one to count. - hence more anxiety in some players.

The reaction of players when they miss is also instructive. When fans go ape over an easy miss, often the player shows no emotion, confident that is will be rectified in the next few minutes with another chance. This is especially true for quality players who know their career is not on the line. Thus ANB's tortured face on the weekend missing open goals, whereas when Hogan missed THAT hook shot against the Saints, his only reaction was embarrassment at the sledging from the opposition. Didn't stop him though later.

 

Ben Dixon, the Saints goal kicking coach supports this theory. he's not at the assisting  to fix mental problems, he's merely a technical coach. Thus Tim Membery who was a great kick last year doesn't need technical advice, its in the head,  and Dixon isn't working with him.  

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6 hours ago, A F said:

Tom missed a snap on his left foot against the Suns, otherwise he hasn't missed.

T Mac is an example of the technical deficiency just needing to be corrected and now he kicks reliably. Not susceptible to mental problems so technique fixed and all good.

 

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5 hours ago, Thrice said:

Tommy McDonald has only had 9 shots for 8.1.

Petracca was in the top 10 most accurate last year, as was Melksham who has also struggled this year. McDonald and Hogan were also in the top 10 and look to have kept up their form (touch wood).

Poor old Melk had the yips on Sunday.  Would have been an excellent game otherwise, excluding some of the bombing to top of square too often or on top of a player's head who is outnumbered.

If he can try & hit a few more targets with short passes coming i50 when coming out of mid field more often it might change him from handy to elite.

Even with the yips that was still his best game for the year though IMHO.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, praha said:

I think the key thing with Trac is he tends to get the ball along the wing, flanks and pockets. Most of his set shots seem to be on tight angles.

If that is the case Praha then he might need some extra work on bananas / check side attempts.

From what i have witnessed of late he appears try to "guide" the banana through the goals rather than staying the course on the original more correct line (angled away from goal towards middle of ground or thereabouts) opening up the angle a little more and allowing the drop of ball and point of contact to curl the ball on its natural arc through the middle.

I noticed Hogan was trying to guide one or two banana attempts through in a similar fashion (changing his line/angle as he walked off the mark more towards the goal) early in the season but is now having some success by maintaining his line a little more and letting the curl do most of the work.

I still recall Bartel's banana in the 2011 GF from deep in the pocket.  A great example of super solid  technique / routine under max pressure which made a very difficult kick look easy ( 1:40 in if interested )...

 

Edited by Rusty Nails

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