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Lucifer's Hero

What is Petracca's Position?

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Posted (edited)

I noticed this article about our 'awesome foursome' forward line http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2018-05-12/melbournes-awesome-foursome-here-to-stay and immediately thought:  Hogan, McDonald, Weideman and Petracca. 

But Petracca wasn't one of them - Max was the fourth.  And the coach says the four are there to stay. 

Petracca's 'natural position' is forward often playing as the 'third' tall forward.  Early this year he featured in an article about he, Hogan and Oliver rotating forward and midfield.  With the return of Tom Mc and four talls rotating down forward that strategy has been turned on its head a bit (for the better).  Not sure where it leaves Petracca...

I never get overawed by stats so for Petracca they aren't  a concern.  But that he doesn't seem to impact his games this year on the scoreboard or around the field is worrying.  So,

  • With the four talls rotating forward and the bevy of small/medium forwards is it 'too crowded' down forward for him to excel? 
  • Is the blossoming of Brayshaw and Salem, brilliance of Oliver and pending return of Viney making the midfield space a bit 'too crowded'?

By 'too crowded' I don't mean too many and I recognise we can never have too many terrific layers.  I simple ask is he/the club struggling to find his best spot in our current line up.  Or is it his work rate? Both?

He has shown patches of brilliance and his potential is immense but something isn't working.  Yesterday was one of his worst games for a long time.   I've no doubt he will become a star and watch out when he does!   But approaching 50 games he should be having a greater impact (ala Salem, Brayshaw, Oliver) in at least some games. 

My question is within our new line up what position is Christian's to own? 

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
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Bit knee jerk.   I thought his start to the season was very good and he was building his numbers very nicely.  Any combination  of Mid forward is right depending on the day. 

Lost a bit of momentum with the finger thing.   He's had a couple of quiet weeks, he should start to build again over the next couple. 

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He isn’t playing poorly, I don’t think he is playing as much midfield at the min. But he will start influencing games again. 

Im not worried.

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Posted (edited)

Not trying to be critical and not overly worried (altho 3 goals in 6 games is not a great return).

To me he looks out of sorts and think it could be the position he is playing in (not playing in).  Like Brayshaw and Salem - put them in their 'natural positions' and off they go!

Just can't see what that position is for Petracca in our current line up.  The four talls rotating forward take up his marking space and the small/mediums take up his crumbing space.  Genuinely interested in folks thoughts of his position to get the best from him.

Edited by Lucifer's Hero

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Of the rotatiing 4 talls Lucifer there are generally only two playing forward at any one time. Either Max or Weids as the centre ruck and perhaps McDonald on the wing. Other times Jesse started in the square. This means Petracca is still nominally the third marking option although Hannan and Fritsch are obviously good above their heads too.

Petracca is a confidence player playing without confidence. It will come. 

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What sticks out to me is that Trac needs to continue to build his tank so he can play more meaningful midfield minutes.  He seems to bob up here and there during games and do some unbelievable things (weaving out of traffic, keeping his feet etc.) and we look a much better side when he's up and about.

However, to do this more often he needs to be able to stay in the game for longer, and that comes back to his fitness.  I think he'll be an absolute star and I am not worried in the slightest about his season so far (the finger problem has thrown him off his game a little).  With improved fitness he can make the midfield his own and complement the likes of Viney, Oliver and Gus perfectly.

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I agree, right now his best position is high half forward with stints in the midfield, but given the change to the forward structure, I think he's learning where he fits in around those big guys.

I'm not worried about it because he's an extreme talent, but no doubt the coaches will be working with him so he influences games like we know he can.

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I would have him deep forward and try and isolate him one out. Ideally I would rotate him with Jack Viney when he gets back - with Petracca spending 60% time in the midfield, and gradually decrease that to 40% as Viney improves his fitness and takes the 60%. Petracca is a burst player I think 40% of his on field time in the midfield is about right at the moment. It would also give Viney a rest up forward where he could use his body and strength to contribute in a similar role Petracca would play up forward. When we have players swapping with each other they need to be stepping into their corresponding roles effortlessly as not to confuse things and put our structures out of whack.

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Is a very nice problem to have. His year has been up and down, but his early form and numbers were excellent. I tend to think he will be a high half forward with time in the midfield. Will keep clear of the 3 big forwards

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1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I noticed this article about our 'awesome foursome' forward line http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2018-05-12/melbournes-awesome-foursome-here-to-stay and immediately thought:  Hogan, McDonald, Weideman and Petracca. 

But Petracca wasn't one of them - Max was the fourth.  And the coach says the four are there to stay. 

Petracca's 'natural position' is forward often playing as the 'third' tall forward.  Early this year he featured in an article about he, Hogan and Oliver rotating forward and midfield.  With the return of Tom Mc and four talls rotating down forward that strategy has been turned on its head a bit (for the better).  Not sure where it leaves Petracca...

I never get overawed by stats so for Petracca they aren't  a concern.  But that he doesn't seem to impact his games this year on the scoreboard or around the field is worrying.  So,

  • With the four talls rotating forward and the bevy of small/medium forwards is it 'too crowded' down forward for him to excel? 
  • Is the blossoming of Brayshaw and Salem, brilliance of Oliver and pending return of Viney making the midfield space a bit 'too crowded'?

By 'too crowded' I don't mean too many and I recognise we can never have too many terrific layers.  I simple ask is he/the club struggling to find his best spot in our current line up.  Or is it his work rate? Both?

He has shown patches of brilliance and his potential is immense but something isn't working.  Yesterday was one of his worst games for a long time.   I've no doubt he will become a star and watch out when he does!   But approaching 50 games he should be having a greater impact (ala Salem, Brayshaw, Oliver) in at least some games. 

My question is within our new line up what position is Christian's to own? 

I wouldn't worry about Petracca I would worry if he wasn't in the side. Let Brayshaw and Salem  have their  day and enjoy their  good fortune by helping us to greater heights.It is fantastic to see them on top of their game. As for Petrac he is building momentum. 

Read Stretch Johnson's  comments he  explains it better.

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Petracca has been frustratingly quiet of late, but that judgment is based upon his incredible potential.

His trajectory will be similar to Hogan. In time he'll be great, will dominate; we know this, we'd just like to see it happen now.

 

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2 minutes ago, Mach5 said:

Petracca has been frustratingly quiet of late, but that judgment is based upon his incredible potential.

His trajectory will be similar to Hogan. In time he'll be great, will dominate; we know this, we'd just like to see it happen now.

 

Isn't it great that we don't have to rely on him to win games. He is going to be a large amount of icing on the cake.

He will tear games apart in the future.

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He's made some silly errors the last two weeks but some of the time he's handballed to in huge pressure and his burst or power gets the ball to a team mate in free space and there's probably only Oliver, Jones or Viney who can do that in the team. 

Without Garlett we also need his pressure as a forward. Not always the most reliable in that regard but he can close 3 steps in no time and create havoc. 

Forward is where we need him now. Midfield is where we'll need him eventually but not in a rush.

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Petracca is out of form. His first few weeks were good, but he’s obviously been effected by the dog bite and missing playing for a few weeks.

I think he’s best suited to playing half forward with stints in the midfield. He’s only shown glimpses in the midfield, and I don’t think his tank will ever improve enough for him to spend majority of game time there and excel. I see him in the Paul Chapman mould, but taller and more explosive. At half forward he’s a hard match up for the opposition due to his marking strength. 

The frustrating thing when watching him is his lack of work rate. He often skirts packs and refuses to chase and tackle. He’s cruising on talent at the moment. Hopefully he has a big shift in mindset like Clarry did and he starts working his ass off to realize his potential. He could be a top 5 player in the comp, but on current trajectory he won’t be. 

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I notia this bout ouraesome foursome' forward line http:/ /www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2018-05-12/melbournes-awesome-foursome-here-to-stay and immediately thought:  Hogan, McDonald, Weideman and Petracca. 

But Petracca wasn't one of them - Max was the fourth.  And the coach says the four are there to stay. 

Petracca's 'natural position' is forward often playing as the 'third' tall forward.  Early this year he featured in an article about he, Hogan and Oliver rotating forward and midfield.  With the return of Tom Mc and four talls rotating down forward that strategy has been turned on its head a bit (for the better).  Not sure where it leaves Petracca...

I never get overawed by stats so for Petracca they aren't  a concern.  But that he doesn't seem to impact his games this year on the scoreboard or around the field is worrying.  So,

  • With the four talls rotating forward and the bevy of small/medium forwards is it 'too crowded' down forward for him to excel? 
  • Is the blossoming of Brayshaw and Salem, brilliance of Oliver and pending return of Viney making the midfield space a bit 'too crowded'?

By 'too crowded' I don't mean too many and I recognise we can never have too many terrific layers.  I simple ask is he/the club struggling to find his best spot in our current line up.  Or is it his work rate? Both?

He has shown patches of brilliance and his potential is immense but something isn't working.  Yesterday was one of his worst games for a long time.   I've no doubt he will become a star and watch out when he does!   But approaching 50 games he should be having a greater impact (ala Salem, Brayshaw, Oliver) in at least some games. 

My question is within our new line up what position is Christian's to own? 

With 3 permanent talls, Melksham, Hannan as well as Nibbler playing a fair bit of time up forward im wondering where or how he plays any signifanct time forward.

Seems to be playing a mostly outside mid role similar to that of Dom atm and running / getting to contests mostly between the arcs.

Personally think the Dom/Tracc outside options make us a little pedestrian on the outside.  Neither are line breaking either which allows opponents ahead to roll back in numbers and crowd out our forward 50.

Might be time to bring Hannan up a little more for Tracc and get a little more pace/line breaking run going on the outside and set tracc some tasks i50.  He is dynamic over head and at ground level and can hoof a ball from 50ish.  Loves a goal too.  Once he picks up his defensive work rate  and work rate in general he should regain some previous good form also.

The other alternative is he takes over Melk's role up forward and move Hannan into an outside mid role pushing forward a little.  Viney in for Melk who needs to work on his kicking both at goal and delivery inside 50.  Drops it on top of forward's heads too often around the goal square.  Could also be reflective of the fact that we dont have a genuine lead up forward out of the 3 permanents that are there though.  I guess that's part of Melk's role.  Trouble is he is often playing too high himself and cant be doing both 

Edited by Rusty Nails
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His position will be LR O  if he doesn't pull his finger out      (Left Right Out)

 

Very poor game  this week

All the potential spoken about on here just isn't being realised

Is there something wrong?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

With 3 permanent talls, Melksham, Hannan as well as Nibbler playing a fair bit of time up forward im wondering where or how he plays any signifanct time forward.

Seems to be playing a mostly outside mid role similar to that of Dom atm and running / getting to contests mostly between the arcs.

That is exactly my point.  CHF seems his 'natural position' (with stints elsewhere) but we have about 6 players rotating thru those roles.  Petracca looks a bit 'lost' roaming around like a high half forward/mid.    

I get what coaches are aiming for with 'flexibility'.  Maybe 'flexibility' isn't for him.  Some players are best suited to play a role, some players are best suited to play a position.  I feel Petracca is the latter.

I would really like to see him played as CHF for a few weeks, let him settle there and see how that works.  He is so good we can build our whole forward line around him being our 'anchor' and have others rotate around him.

I happen to think if we had a bit less 'flexibility' up forward there would be less i50's that ricochet straight back out as it would give the deliverers more certainty on who and where the forwards will be. 

So for a variety of reasons would really like to see Petracca settle at CHF for a while. 

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
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2 hours ago, jackaub said:

His position will be LR O  if he doesn't pull his finger out      (Left Right Out)

 

Very poor game  this week

All the potential spoken about on here just isn't being realised

Is there something wrong?

Yeah, your post.

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On 5/13/2018 at 7:52 AM, Lucifer's Hero said:

I noticed this article about our 'awesome foursome' forward line http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2018-05-12/melbournes-awesome-foursome-here-to-stay and immediately thought:  Hogan, McDonald, Weideman and Petracca. 

But Petracca wasn't one of them - Max was the fourth.  And the coach says the four are there to stay. 

Petracca's 'natural position' is forward often playing as the 'third' tall forward.  Early this year he featured in an article about he, Hogan and Oliver rotating forward and midfield.  With the return of Tom Mc and four talls rotating down forward that strategy has been turned on its head a bit (for the better).  Not sure where it leaves Petracca...

I never get overawed by stats so for Petracca they aren't  a concern.  But that he doesn't seem to impact his games this year on the scoreboard or around the field is worrying.  So,

  • With the four talls rotating forward and the bevy of small/medium forwards is it 'too crowded' down forward for him to excel? 
  • Is the blossoming of Brayshaw and Salem, brilliance of Oliver and pending return of Viney making the midfield space a bit 'too crowded'?

By 'too crowded' I don't mean too many and I recognise we can never have too many terrific layers.  I simple ask is he/the club struggling to find his best spot in our current line up.  Or is it his work rate? Both?

He has shown patches of brilliance and his potential is immense but something isn't working.  Yesterday was one of his worst games for a long time.   I've no doubt he will become a star and watch out when he does!   But approaching 50 games he should be having a greater impact (ala Salem, Brayshaw, Oliver) in at least some games. 

My question is within our new line up what position is Christian's to own? 

With Viney's return to midfield, I'd reckon Trac's best spot is to be launched from the HFFlank (LHS) as a roving utility across Half Forward in general. He does get back to position/opponent coverage quickly which suits this role. The depth of his impact could also be from the wing but his goalscoring is essential - maybe too far for him to roam. He is a great target, a great ball getter and a great threat to any team in the competition. He does need to be worked, however. 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/13/2018 at 8:54 AM, Lucifer's Hero said:

Not trying to be critical and not overly worried (altho 3 goals in 6 games is not a great return).

To me he looks out of sorts and think it could be the position he is playing in (not playing in).  Like Brayshaw and Salem - put them in their 'natural positions' and off they go!

Just can't see what that position is for Petracca in our current line up.  The four talls rotating forward take up his marking space and the small/mediums take up his crumbing space.  Genuinely interested in folks thoughts of his position to get the best from him.

Half forward flank/wing for me. 

It is interesting when you analyse our tall forwards. They are not just mark kick forward specialists. Macdonald/Hogan are both endurance athletes, so for much of the game they play up the ground and run their opponents off their feet. They are also elite marks and kicks for goal so can be very damaging when they eventually do go forward. 

Weideman I think is a perfect foil for them. Although he doesn’t get a great deal of the ball at the moment (although I’m sure that will come), he is a ferocious tackler, is an improving second ruck, and has the size and strength to be in most contests to at least bring the ball to ground. When he does mark it, he is an elite kick for goal. He will be an important player in our future. 

Max - what can you say apart from superlatives? He constantly amazes me about his endurance: when he is on the ball he is always ready for the contest, and has an amazing ability to get back to defend, as well as being the best hit out ruckman in the league giving Jones, Oliver, Tyson silver service. And of course as a bonus Goody is increasingly using him up forward (another advantage of having Weideman in the side), where he has been a very effective high marking option. Even his kicking for goal seems to be improving! 

So where does that leave Petracca! I think I would at the moment play him on the wing and get him into the play more, and put it to him that he is a bullocking midfielder who can come forward to kick goals. His strength and his disposal are both real assets which we could use more, but at the moment he is simply not in the play enough. Like the Weid, I have no doubt he will be crucial to our future, but more involvement would be welcome and soon.

Edited by Dees2014
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Posted (edited)

Trac burns open forwards too often and then doesn't convert

I'm not sure team first is strong in him

Edited by dino rover
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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

Petracca is out of form. His first few weeks were good, but he’s obviously been effected by the dog bite and missing playing for a few weeks.

I think he’s best suited to playing half forward with stints in the midfield. He’s only shown glimpses in the midfield, and I don’t think his tank will ever improve enough for him to spend majority of game time there and excel. I see him in the Paul Chapman mould, but taller and more explosive. At half forward he’s a hard match up for the opposition due to his marking strength. 

The frustrating thing when watching him is his lack of work rate. He often skirts packs and refuses to chase and tackle. He’s cruising on talent at the moment. Hopefully he has a big shift in mindset like Clarry did and he starts working his ass off to realize his potential. He could be a top 5 player in the comp, but on current trajectory he won’t be. 

Nailed it LT.

Half forward. Im a believer in encouragement rather than disciple. I think you learn from your successes rather than your mistakes. Id give him 2 more weeks maybe and then a run in the magoos to find those successful attributes. We dont want passengers like weve had in the past when there was no depth. Yes Oliver is a classic example.

Edit: What is anybodys position? Not having a go, but the modern game seems to require multiple positions at times.....even Lever had a shot a goal the other day. (think that might have its limitations tho).

Edited by Wadda We Sing

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I've said it before, Petracca needs to start doing the simple things well. He keeps trying to make the big play, when he should be just doing a lot of little things properly.

Others have said that he is not team first. I think the opposite is true to a degree - you see him run to 50 metres out with a straight forward shot in front of him, and he will try some ridiculous pass over his shoulder to a teammate which will miss by 5 metres.

I'm disappointed that Brayshaw, Salem and Harmes have all gone past him this year. He should be playing decent midfield minutes, but he just doesn't have the endurance to do so. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

That is exactly my point.  CHF seems his 'natural position' (with stints elsewhere) but we have about 6 players rotating thru those roles.  Petracca looks a bit 'lost' roaming around like a high half forward/mid.    

I get what coaches are aiming for with 'flexibility'.  Maybe 'flexibility' isn't for him.  Some players are best suited to play a role, some players are best suited to play a position.  I feel Petracca is the latter.

I would really like to see him played as CHF for a few weeks, let him settle there and see how that works.  He is so good we can build our whole forward line around him being our 'anchor' and have others rotate around him.

I happen to think if we had a bit less 'flexibility' up forward there would be less i50's that ricochet straight back out as it would give the deliverers more certainty on who and where the forwards will be. 

So for a variety of reasons would really like to see Petracca settle at CHF for a while. 

I agree LH.  Would benefit more from playing a forward positional role and pushing up a little when required.

However, as i stated earlier i would still rather have him playing out of a HFF role as a direct swap with Hannan (into an outside run & carry mid /forward role) or replacing Melk (Viney for Melk).

With Viney returning i no longer see the need for Hulk to be playing as much time up the ground.  And if you move Hannan up there we also gain outside speed / run & carry (and close down speed on the opps speedsters when they get it...see Ablett Rnd 1) that Hulk doesn't really offer.  This gives us the luxury of bringing Jesse back to playing extra time at/around true CHF (Structure! + our best KPF).  T-Mac out of the square (Structure + our other best KPF).

This also sets a challenge for a very talented Tracc and might help focus his mind to achieve something of worth (loves a goal...work on his pressure i50 when he doesn't have it) and freshen his mind a little.

Their dynamics in the air and off the ground along with the finish on and around goal (power of Tracc plus Finesse Aerial ability of Fritsch) of a forward set up......

Weid*  /  T-Mac  /  Spargo#

Fritsch  /  Hogan  /  Tracc 

...  has my lips smacking!  And will pose a real problem for any Opp with the variation in size / power / skill sets while still retaining the "3 talls" forward line if required.

* Changing up as required with Melk, Pedders, Smith if FD deems suitable & in form

# Jeffy (as above)

Edited by Rusty Nails
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