Post Match Discussion - Round 8

[Willmoy1947 3,758]

1 hour ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

Weid is currently the poster boy for playing your role. Whilst he didnt get on the end,  our tall forwards and ruck kicked 9 goals and we had a massive inside 50 count. He gave off 4 goals from his small possession count. Once again I can't recall him getting beaten in the air or a liability in the centre bounce. His speed and territory coverage is vital to this (mentioned he and Hogan had covered the most kms to half time). If it ain't broke don't fix it. 

Beautifully summed up Big Red, he gets noticed alright, even by the commentators. "Caesar wasn't built in a year or two".

[Binmans PA 25,864]

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

The emergence of Brayshaw as a crucial part of our midfield set up this year is further proof that Goodwin is the right man for the job and that he absolutely knows what he is doing.

We all couldn't believe that Gus missed the first few games, but those were given to him to find his feet and get some match practice into him.  When he came back we eased him in off the half back flank and then shifted him into the middle over the past three weeks.  It's been a slow burn but Gus has had his best 3 weeks of footy for the club and I firmly believe it's been down to how he has been managed to this point.  He's coming from a fair way back with the concussion issues and the club (and Gus) have done everything right in getting him to this point.

Long may it continue!

By the end of 2018, injury permitting, we'll have the best centre square group in the league - Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw and Gawn. You could argue we're already there, but Viney needs some continuity and we'll smash/match any opposition midfield in the league.

Edited May 13, 2018 by A F

[Redleg 37,441]

10 minutes ago, A F said:

By the end of 2018, injury permitting, we'll have the best centre square group in the league - Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw and Gawn. You could argue we're already there, but Viney needs some continuity and we'll smash/match any opposition midfield in the league.

Oliver 's ball handling is nothing short of freakish, I just can't recall anyone other than the great Robbie who compares to him.

The other things in his favour are his height and strength and his toughness.

Have I told you all I just love this kid and am so thrilled we traded up to get him.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,131]

6 minutes ago, Redleg said:

 

Have I told you all I just love this kid and am so thrilled we traded up to get him.

Particularly if you watch the current output of Parish. 

Edited May 13, 2018 by big_red_fire_engine

[Demon Dynasty 15,150]

14 hours ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Lots of reasons to keep him, structure, allows TMac and Hogan to roam which was a massive part of the win today and also gives Gawn a chop out better than either Pedo or Harmes has so far this year.

If you listen to some ex Coaches / Players you only need someone who can get up and compete reasonably well in a relief rucking role R&B.  We don't need another Maxy when he is resting.  We all know Harmes was a serious fail on behalf of the FD and will never be a serious chop out option and should never be used in that role again.

Pedders can easily provide an average chop out, similar to Weids, and that's all you need.  He would easily contribute to structure vs Weids plus add improved results on the field.  He is often bringing others into the game also with clever handball / body work, is quite good defensively inside 50 AND can kick a few goals with decent accuracy also which we lack outside of T-Mac.   I'm not saying he is the future over Weid or other potential tall forward recruits who might surpass him, obviously given his age, but Weid is presently ranked 31st out of the 31 players that have graced the field so far this season statistically vs Pedders @ 24th & even Frost is ahead @ 28th. 

Weids game y'day was statistically the worst of any player so far this season including Pedders against the Lions in Rnd 2 (where he was immediately dropped and not looked at again...so far), Jeffy's horrors against the Hawks / Tigers, some low ebbs from the likes of Hannan in Rnd 1,  Hunt vs the Bombers and ANB last week.

3 tall forwards is a luxury but one which could be justified if Weids was performing at a reasonable level (at worst).  He isn't and ANB has likely saved his bacon re: Viney's return.  I agree with OD,  the glaringly obvious omission is Weids for Viney.  Having said that my belief is that Weids is very much a favorite of Macca's and hence not easily removed once selected and will more than likely get another (undeserved) go at it next week.  Spargo might be the other alternative but if he is it would be a travesty and wouldn't make much sense given his small forward role.  Tyson the more likely option IMO.

Obviously the performance of others (outside of Viney) at Casey will play a large part in next weeks Ins/Outs.  Being our biggest win for the year, and in winning form, you would think the FD would be making very few changes outside of Viney unless someone else plays a blinder.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Rusty Nails

[Wiseblood 24,636]

3 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

,  the glaringly obvious omission is Weids for Viney. 

No, it's not, and his retention in the side for this weekend will prove it.

I'll back the FD in on this one and the fact we've won 3 on the trot with this forward line rotation, not posters who simply look at stats and nothing else.

[DV8 2,271]

T & O McD on the ch-9 footy show soon. comin up.

[Demon Dynasty 15,150]

7 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

No, it's not, and his retention in the side for this weekend will prove it.

I'll back the FD in on this one and the fact we've won 3 on the trot with this forward line rotation, not posters who simply look at stats and nothing else.

You conveniently missed another important part of my  post Wise......

....."Having said that my belief is that Weids is very much a favorite of Macca's and hence not easily removed once selected and will more than likely get another (undeserved) go at it next week.  Spargo might be the other alternative but if he is it would be a travesty and wouldn't make much sense given his small forward role.  Tyson the more likely option IMO." ......

And i also watch / attend games too but thanks for the "stats only" stereotype.  As i have always said, and will continue to, stats are a loose guide ,after the event, as to how someone is fairing and shouldn't be the sole criteria but also shouldn't be totally ignored either.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Rusty Nails

[DV8 2,271]

14 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

'Utter hatred and demise'.......tad melodramatic, Wise?

od just needs to see more - and that's ok, isn't it?

It is..... but when it goes on and on, as a campaign to get someone out, it is not so good, jr.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

1 minute ago, Rusty Nails said:

You conveniently missed another important part of my  post Wise......

....."Having said that my belief is that Weids is very much a favorite of Macca's and hence not easily removed once selected and will more than likely get another (undeserved) go at it next week.  Spargo might be the other alternative but if he is it would be a travesty and wouldn't make much sense given his small forward role.  Tyson the more likely option IMO." ......

 

But I didn't miss the fact that you made a point of knocking his stats from yesterday's game, and that he is the 'glaringly obvious' omission from this weeks team with the point of saying he'll get another 'undeserved' go at it next week.  You can hide behind the Tyson as the more likely option part of your post, but your stance on the matter is clear.

If you can't see his value to our side outside of what the stats tell you, then I can't help you.

[DV8 2,271]

14 hours ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

I didn’t mind Weed’s game tbh - he competed in the air and at ground level

He’s a 21 year old who has played 15 or so games

Didnt get near it but his ability to play his role is crucial as it frees up T Mac and Hogan

The latter’s running capacity is freakish

4 goal assists is a good base,,, + some tackles, but he's adding to-creating the structure, that is so far working for us.

 

I think sometime in the future we may have to have another speedy small in the team, but that isn't Garlett, imv.

[Engorged Onion 9,214]

I’ve been giggling away this morning at the interpretations of Weids game - purely on low output of numbers. (mind you, everyone can have an opinion, so here is mine) I was at the game last night and focussed a fair bit on him - his running to create space was great -  was right up there and helping hogan and tmac. For those that think he lacks confidence and use Spargos goal as a reason for that, is argue take a closer look at the deliberate holding off on taking a ping, then drawing Charlie’s man closer to him to free him up, that was class and an action that was devoid of a lack of confidence. 

Finally, someone is alway going to have the minimum stats for the week - does this person always have to be dropped irrespective of whether they play their role or not? If you think so, well... that’s stil living in the 1970’s.

[DV8 2,271]

14 hours ago, old dee said:

Wise I am not barracking for his demise but I have seen nothing the last two weeks that justify his inclusion in the team. How long will you play a guy with 6 possessions? and was against one of the poorest sides going around. Carrying players who consistently give little to the result will bring us undone against the better sides.

 

You need to learn, that the team carries some players when they are off form, Or learning to play a KEY role.

we are building for Our future, not for this week.  the eyes are raised to the future and the Weide wil be neded and he waon't really develop so much at casey.'

He can ingrain some good habits there, but the competition he needs isn't there, so much.  not like the old days.

 

However if the AFL reduce the rotations further,  the huge Gap between AFL and VFL will reduce,,,, to allow young players more impact at AFL level.

[Demon Dynasty 15,150]

1 minute ago, Wiseblood said:

But I didn't miss the fact that you made a point of knocking his stats from yesterday's game, and that he is the 'glaringly obvious' omission from this weeks team with the point of saying he'll get another 'undeserved' go at it next week.  You can hide behind the Tyson as the more likely option part of your post, but your stance on the matter is clear.

If you can't see his value to our side outside of what the stats tell you, then I can't help you.

I'm looking at the likely replacement for Viney Wise.  As i said, Weids had a shocker. That's not my doing.  We have two very solid tall forwards who are performing beautifully.  The 3rd, who is a rookie, didn't and is a luxury with arguably our best mid fielder returning.  The glaringly obvious omission before the weekend was ANB but after yesterday it's now Weids.  Form is everything and, as we keep hearing from SATY, apparently no one is sacred if they aren''t performing.

But given the lay of the land inside the FD i, like you, also think he will be kept (see Macca's influence).  Tyson the likely out.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

1 minute ago, Rusty Nails said:

I'm looking at the likely replacement for Viney Wise.  As i said, Weids had a shocker.

I didn't read any further.  I'm done.  Cheers.

[Deemania since 56 6,118]

16 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

We are a way better team with oodles more talent.

That Round 4 game was an anomaly.

It gives us all a focussed reminder of the 2017 season disappointment. Forget the Tigers result, if Gawny had kicked that goal against Whoreform we would now be in 7th Heaven in the AFL Ladder top 4. 

[Demon Dynasty 15,150]

6 minutes ago, Danelska said:

I’ve been giggling away this morning at the interpretations of Weids game - purely on low output of numbers. (mind you, everyone can have an opinion, so here is mine) I was at the game last night and focussed a fair bit on him - his running to create space was great -  was right up there and helping hogan and tmac. For those that think he lacks confidence and use Spargos goal as a reason for that, is argue take a closer look at the deliberate holding off on taking a ping, then drawing Charlie’s man closer to him to free him up, that was class and an action that was devoid of a lack of confidence. 

Finally, someone is alway going to have the minimum stats for the week - does this person always have to be dropped irrespective of whether they play their role or not? If you think so, well... that’s stil living in the 1970’s.

I would normally agree with this Danelska but this was the worst for the year.  AFL footballers have to do better than that as we've seen with many other omissions (Pedders, Hunt, Jeffy, Frost, Wags) after some very ordinary performances (on the field and statistically).

[Demon Dynasty 15,150]

2 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I didn't read any further.  I'm done.  Cheers.

[DV8 2,271]

13 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

Pedo can't ruck, but he is better around the ground.

Its not about hit-out stats, its about clearances, and around the ground effect. Competing hard and nullifying the oppo' ruck, is crucial.

Pedo hurts the opposition around the midfield when rucking, and rolls forward as an effective target.

13 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

He did it pretty well when Gawn was injured last year.

Besides, the ruck component of that role is very small.

He did very well, playing the role TMc is playing.

[Engorged Onion 9,214]

3 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

I would normally agree with this Danelska but this was the worst for the year.  AFL footballers have to do better than that as we've seen with many other omissions (Pedders, Hunt, Jeffy, Frost, Wags) after some very ordinary performances (on the field and statistically).

My thinking @Rusty Nails is that disposal stats are not enough to go off. Nor ignoring the context of the role he played. 4 score involvements and lots of unheralded running patterns. Anyway the FD will anoint some of us a fools on Thursday ?

[Deemania since 56 6,118]

5 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

I'm looking at the likely replacement for Viney Wise.  As i said, Weids had a shocker. That's not my doing.  We have two very solid tall forwards who are performing beautifully.  The 3rd, who is a rookie, didn't and is a luxury with arguably our best mid fielder returning.  The glaringly obvious omission before the weekend was ANB but after yesterday it's now Weids.  Form is everything and, as we keep hearing from SATY, apparently no one is sacred if they aren''t performing.

But given the lay of the land inside the FD i, like you, also think he will be kept (see Macca's influence).  Tyson the likely out.

 

1 minute ago, Rusty Nails said:

I would normally agree with this Danelska but this was the worst for the year.  AFL footballers have to do better than that as we've seen with many other omissions (Pedders, Hunt, Jeffy, Frost, Wags) after some very ordinary performances (on the field and statistically).

Our dilemma, heh? I'd get rid of the Weed at present - we cannot carry him although his ruck taps were fair to good. Not enough. Team wins now are more important than his education. I'd put Pedo into CHF for sure against Carlscum to add a bit of muscle and some accurate goal kicking in an opportunity to kick at least 30 goals. Viney in and simply, Tyson out. Pleasing to see that Harmes' game is returning to 'handy' on the outside. 

[Diamond_Jim 11,670]

2 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

I would normally agree with this Danelska but this was the worst for the year.  AFL footballers have to do better than that as we've seen with many other omissions (Pedders, Hunt, Jeffy, Frost, Wags) after some very ordinary performances (on the field and statistically).

the thing that some posters often miss is that he has rarely done anything at VFL level either.

Sure develop him but other than one game against the Hawks at Box Hill last year he has failed to impose himself upon a game at VFL level.

Good time to play him against the lesser lights of the competition but he does need to show something. I put very little faith in Goodwin's comments as he will not often if ever criticise a player in public.

[DV8 2,271]

  13 hours ago, Jaded said:

Stewy Dew looks like he ate all the players. 

 

13 hours ago, Uncle Fester said:

The giggles that gave me can never be properly put into words.

I've been wondering where all the de-listed Swans & Suns players have been disappearing to ? ?️

[John Crow Batty 8,215]

While we keep on winning and playing reasonable we can afford to carry Weed as long as keeps trying hard. Reminds me of Omac. The weight of games played finally got him to click. Weed is not going to get better accumulating experience at half rate at Casey. 

Edited May 13, 2018 by america de cali

[Nasher 33,047]

God the revisionism on here regarding Pedersen makes me laugh. He stood up last year as our first ruck and is to be thanked and commended for that. His efforts during that period were Herculean and he was fantastic. He also stood up a few times as key forward when Hogan was out.

As a second ruck/forward, he is hopeless. He just hardly gets involved in the play at all. Honestly, the suggestion that he might replace Weid is laughable. Weid might not be quite at the level, but at least you know he’ll almost certainly improve. We know what we get with Pedersen. I don’t see the point.

Anyway, whoever Viney replaces is going to be really stiff. Everybody in the side was at least decent, including Tyson. To me it has to be a like for like so it probably will be Tyson. I would be very reluctant to mess with our four tall strategy; it is working a treat at present and I think Weid is an important piece of the puzzle.