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titan_uranus

Shepherding the man on the mark

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While this really irked me watching this.

My question is, to beat this. Shouldn't the man shepherding the man on the mark will leave an extra player on our team to zone/man up...?

That's 2 players on the opposing team, one with ball one shepherding. One of ours on the mark.
 

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1 hour ago, Moonshadow said:

>

It should be pretty simple, and would make the game look better: no shepherding the man on the mark. None of this 5m or 10m zone stuff. 

<

won't work moonie, once the ump blows play-on you can't prevent a shepherd

need a 5m arc in front of mark, until play-on called

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20 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Hawthorn did this repeatedly today to good effect. It bought some of their kicks an extra 10 metres by allowing the kicker to get out on an angle without the man on the mark cutting him off. It also got Gunston a goal early in the fourth quarter.

IMO this should be outlawed by changing the rules: the protected zone should apply to the man on the mark who is otherwise defenceless. But until that happens, why don't we do it? Didn't any of our players see how frequently Hawthorn did it and how it helped them get out the back of our press?

Cant we simply man the man manning the mark? 

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My mates an umpire and was going ballistic at the umpires for letting it go on. They are not meant to shepherd the player on the mark until the kicker has gone well and truly off his mark and the umpire calls play on. They did not do this and should've been made to go back and kick it again.

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19 minutes ago, Pates said:

My mates an umpire and was going ballistic at the umpires for letting it go on. They are not meant to shepherd the player on the mark until the kicker has gone well and truly off his mark and the umpire calls play on. They did not do this and should've been made to go back and kick it again.

We'll add this new failing to the existing list of not paying: holding the man, dropping the ball, in the back, throwing, short kicks ...... you know, the fundamental rules of the game.

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Well, mission accomplished, although maybe not on Sunday. Why on earth do clubs like Hawthorn and Bashar Asaad’s lovely government have to keep cheating by bending the rules? Assaadhole keeps dropping poisonous [censored] on his friendly people and Clarkson keeps pushing our guys off the mark by ‘shepherding’  and semi legally gaining an extra 20metres? Stormy is cross. I’ve got my finger on the button. Watch out rocket man!

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The most simple thing, any coach at any level can instruct his players to do.  Problem is that players need to be selfless and alert to regularly do it.

Clarko is a genius for more than this though.  Remember the flak he copped for getting rid of his ageing stars, 6 months before they use date?

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Regardless of the appearance and the fairness of the tactic, ultimately it is yet another match day tactic that Goodwin has failed to combat. His inability to read the play, so to speak, on game day is astonishing.

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I caught about 5 minutes of each of the Channel 7 Footy Show (is it "Talking Footy"?) and Footy Classified. Both shows happened to discuss the matter in that time and with only 8 so called experts between them, none gave a convincing argument for or against the tactic. Both shows drew on historical precedent and both showed ignorance of the rule. That is, on both shows the panelists admitted to not understanding what the rule actually is. 

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From my recollection, I thought that the AFL deemed and umpires were enforcing that players could come in and shepherd once the umpire called ‘play on’, and not before. 

I may be wrong, but I distinctly remember a game where opposition players were held up while the zone was cleared as players moved in too closely. 

I think as noted previously, unfortunately this seems to have been forgotten or is at the behest of the incumbent management 

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22 hours ago, Pates said:

My mates an umpire and was going ballistic at the umpires for letting it go on. They are not meant to shepherd the player on the mark until the kicker has gone well and truly off his mark and the umpire calls play on. They did not do this and should've been made to go back and kick it again.

It was a deliberate tactic and I find it disgraceful. It is against the rules and why it was allowed is anyone's guess.

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H. Lumumba did it for us in his 1st game (it was one of his best plays at Collingwood) but he was told to stop because it was "wrong". Now it's done with no one to say stop. I don't like it.

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Lets face it ... children playing against grown ups ... not a player who can sense what’s happening.. the coaching staff went to the bar at quarter time ... what an abysmal adolescent team I’ve barracked for these past 64 years.. let’s start again... a real purge of players and coaches.. but not till the Tigers beat us by 120 and the Dons by 119...

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On 4/16/2018 at 3:42 PM, Clint Bizkit said:

5ad43772859f7_ScreenShot2018-04-16at3_36_02pm.png.d7cf156e04cdcd3e181c43cebc19cc0b.png5ad4377529650_ScreenShot2018-04-16at3_36_10pm.png.32b78d50345e841f2fb539c3c3d398dd.png

 

Page 31 and 32:

http://www.aflcommunityclub.com.au/fileadmin/user_upload/Coach_AFL/2017_Laws_of_Australian_Football.pdf

They need to extend the protected area to 5 metres behind the man on the mark too.

A very simple solution . Too simple for the simpletons 

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3 hours ago, Chook said:

H. Lumumba did it for us in his 1st game (it was one of his best plays at Collingwood) but he was told to stop because it was "wrong". Now it's done with no one to say stop. I don't like it.

I hope you aren't suggesting that we redraft the narcissist. :-(((((

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On 16/04/2018 at 1:26 PM, DeeSpencer said:

I believe the interpretation is you have to be 1 metre behind the player on the mark until the umpire calls play on. They have to come from behind the mark, they can't be adjacent to it. It was poorly officiated yesterday (shock horror), but it does allow another player to either be free or up as the second marker so to speak and be involved.

In the dry it doesn't really achieve much. In the wet it buys extra territory so it's well worth doing.

Of course our players are poorly trained both at doing it and at how to defend it. It's basically a basketball screen and you can either fight over or under it or hand off to a second player to chase the kicker whist you pick up the blocker.

The Hawks do the little things so well. 

At one stage Bugg gave away an off ball free for holding or blocking, not sure which, I didn't see a replay of what he had done. But it made me laugh because any time a high ball was coming in to the Hawthorn forward line they were blocking for each other non stop.

Unfortunately umpires umpire for players they know well - Roughead, Smith, Rioli etc from Hawks, Selwood, Dangerfield, Ablett from Cats all get greater latitude than the unknowns. Oliver was tackled without the ball in our forward line blatantly in 1st qtr and couldn’t get a free. Yet Isaac Smith would throw his arms back all the time and free would be called.

 

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2 hours ago, grey wolf said:

Lets face it ... children playing against grown ups ... not a player who can sense what’s happening.. the coaching staff went to the bar at quarter time ... what an abysmal adolescent team I’ve barracked for these past 64 years.. let’s start again... a real purge of players and coaches.. but not till the Tigers beat us by 120 and the Dons by 119...

Buddy I think you should change teams you’ve suffered long enough!

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The rule will be amended as soon as someone  is taken out (concussed or worse) by someone hitting the person on the mark who is unaware he is there (they are, or should, be focused on the person taking the kick).  Of course the rule change will be hastily drawn up, and ill conceived (as a knee jerk reaction); which smart coaches like Clarkson will quickly exploit  Then to fix this they will do a series of interpretations over the next 5 years (keeping the rule committee in a job; and feeding the media with a slow day story filler whenever needed)!!!

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On Monday, April 16, 2018 at 12:24 AM, WERRIDEE said:

Why are Hawthorn always ahead of the pack and we never are? Clarkson is the greatest coach of all time.

All rules are made to be broken at Hawthorn or the envelope of them severley pushed.  They perfected the artof scooping/Spiking/throwing the ball and disguising it quite well very early on in Clarkson's tenure also while others (including us)were still looking to handball slowly in the correct fashion.They exagerate every potential free that might be rewarded also and if there is even a sniff of the umpire paying a deliberate against all odds those near the boundary will all raise their hands in the air to put pressure on the ump to make the call
Vince is about the only player at Melb that does this consistently also, sometimes with good results.  He has the venom thats lacking by many within the team.  There are a few others like Clarry and Jack, but we lack the white line fever across all our 22 that the Hawks bring pretty much every match they play.

Another example is when taking the mark.  The Hawks usually always take an extra step or two over and wait to be called back.  On the kick ins if you watch carefully, especially Cyril, you will find that they creep forward a little right at the end of the alloted time the kicker has in order to gain that extra half meter and try and get the smother or tackle in once play on is called.

Clarkson's Hawks have certainly lead the way in getting every advantage they can by pushing all bounderies to their limits.Something the Demons have been very slow to catch on to but i have seen areas where we have started to.

Titan raises another very good example of where we are still trailing behind though.

Often its the little things and attention to detail like this (as one example) that define a good or ordinary team from a great one.

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17 hours ago, Ebenezer Murgatroyd said:

From my recollection, I thought that the AFL deemed and umpires were enforcing that players could come in and shepherd once the umpire called ‘play on’, and not before. 

I may be wrong, but I distinctly remember a game where opposition players were held up while the zone was cleared as players moved in too closely. 

I think as noted previously, unfortunately this seems to have been forgotten or is at the behest of the incumbent management 

Its what is infuriating about umpiring. They focus on a rule for a week and then bang, its consigned to the bin

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1 hour ago, Rusty Nails said:

All rules are made to be broken at Hawthorn or the envelope of them severley pushed.  They perfected the artof scooping/Spiking/throwing the ball and disguising it quite well very early on in Clarkson's tenure also while others (including us)were still looking to handball slowly in the correct fashion.They exagerate every potential free that might be rewarded also and if there is even a sniff of the umpire paying a deliberate against all odds those near the boundary will all raise their hands in the air to put pressure on the ump to make the call
Vince is about the only player at Melb that does this consistently also, sometimes with good results.  He has the venom thats lacking by many within the team.  There are a few others like Clarry and Jack, but we lack the white line fever across all our 22 that the Hawks bring pretty much every match they play.

Another example is when taking the mark.  The Hawks usually always take an extra step or two over and wait to be called back.  On the kick ins if you watch carefully, especially Cyril, you will find that they creep forward a little right at the end of the alloted time the kicker has in order to gain that extra half meter and try and get the smother or tackle in once play on is called.

Clarkson's Hawks have certainly lead the way in getting every advantage they can by pushing all bounderies to their limits.Something the Demons have been very slow to catch on to but i have seen areas where we have started to.

Titan raises another very good example of where we are still trailing behind though.

Often its the little things and attention to detail like this (as one example) that define a good or ordinary team from a great one.

Another annoying one is when a mark or free is paid in the 50m arc.

Our players will often move closer to the boundary as they have zero awareness of trying to incrase the angle. Similarly when an oppo player is lining up they will creep a few degrees towards the centre. Our player on the mark will often move closer to the 90degree line making it easier for the ump and the oppo player instead of trying to get the ump to move the kicker closer to the boundary or 'enforce' the correct line.

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13 hours ago, beelzebub said:

A very simple solution . Too simple for the simpletons 

Nice work BZ and a very simple solution

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24 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Another annoying one is when a mark or free is paid in the 50m arc.

Our players will often move closer to the boundary as they have zero awareness of trying to incrase the angle. Similarly when an oppo player is lining up they will creep a few degrees towards the centre. Our player on the mark will often move closer to the 90degree line making it easier for the ump and the oppo player instead of trying to get the ump to move the kicker closer to the boundary or 'enforce' the correct line.

I haven't been watching for the player on the mark inside 50 before Jnr.  Good pick up.  Will be interesting to watch that from now 

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On 16/04/2018 at 9:20 AM, monoccular said:

Was under the (mis)impression that there was a 5 meter no go zone around the man on the mark. 

As I recall we tried it a few times and the ball was called back.

 

The zone is either side of the man on the mark but not behind. As long as the player is slightly behind the parallel line of the mark when the player with the ball plays on it's fine.

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20 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Another annoying one is when a mark or free is paid in the 50m arc.

Our players will often move closer to the boundary as they have zero awareness of trying to incrase the angle. Similarly when an oppo player is lining up they will creep a few degrees towards the centre. Our player on the mark will often move closer to the 90degree line making it easier for the ump and the oppo player instead of trying to get the ump to move the kicker closer to the boundary or 'enforce' the correct line.

I've said all along that on angled shots for goal, the non-officiating boundary umpire needs to line up directly behind the kicker in the straight line to the goals. If the kicker edges around, play on is called. The field umpire can never see the edging off the straight line

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