Post Match Discussion - Round 4

[Umpire Please 120]

Last Round last year against Collingwood.

[DeeZee 6,719]

3 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Which part of not laying one single tackle was Collingwood?

They tackled better, and moved the ball quicker.

Our inability to tackle makes us poor, does it not?

[rolling fog 1,146]

Lewis has phoned it in all year

[DemonOX 8,529]

I’m just sic of reading and writing the same comments for the past 12 yrs. 

it never seems to change which is really disappointing and other teams continually pass us. 

My god it’s hard to keep supporting them and it’s really hard to keep the kids on board. 

[Hot as Hell 465]

I am glad we have a few extra days to regroup after this loss. 

Being beaten like that and waving G the white flag in the final quarter mentally set us back 6 months. The players now have a genuine reason to doubt all that believed they were capable of. 

We can't drop everyone who played poorly so we need to be strategic as to the type of player we have too many of and the type of player we lack. 

I won't mention names because they have all been mentioned in this thread. 

The players need to suck this loss in very deeply. They can be humiliated when they don't play well. Then they need to be reminded of what wins games of footy. 

We have 8 days to make the changes and shake the dust off our sleeves. 

We will see what this coach is made of, very soon. We will also see what the players' are made of. 

 

[Dr. Gonzo 22,398]

57 minutes ago, buck_nekkid said:

 

beaten all over, except for Max.  

The momentum seemed to change when Max missed that goal from almost exactly the same spot as the one against the Cats. McEvoy got into his ear before he kicked it and he just couldn't drill it to get the monkey off the back. After that the Hawks seemed to go up a gear like they knew they had us mentally and we went backwards.

Our pressure and run was great early then we just stopped. We'd switch the play and none of our players would be running hard to push across. Was too reminiscent of years gone by. 

As always I'll wait and see how we respond. I had us losing this and beating the Tigers. Although I didn't think we'd lose like that and Richmond absolutely demoralised the Lions so the next game will be interesting .

 

[DeeZee 6,719]

Teams like Richmond can make a commitment at the start of the year to be mentally stronger and give 100% of tough strong Footy for four quarters.

So did Bulldogs the previous year.

So why can’t we?

Talent alone never does it.

We are soft and mentally weak.

[nosoupforme 3,085]

I couldn't care less if we are high on the list with our contested possessions ,l know that we don't like it wet. We were easily beaten by a side which lost Rioli  Mcenvoy for a time ,Frawley wasn't 100 pc and Puopolo  all hard nuts.  Yet they kicked15 goals to our one after quarter time. 

I haven't been so disappointed for a long time. What are you guys thinking out there. YOU DON'T LIKE A BIT OF DIRT ON YOU ?

Slippery Dees!!! Shame on you.  I pay to have my say. I EXPECT BETTER!!! 

[Ethan Tremblay 28,288]

I’ve had a couple of hours and a few glasses of red now to relax and calm down and reflect on the game. Bad idea reflecting on the game because I’m now quite frustrated and angry again. 

[What 18,810]

Four goals up in the first quarter and we just stopped.   Came to a complete halt.  Slaughtered the rest of the game, didnt kick a goal for 90 minutes.

Why?  Why did it happen?  Will we find a reason?  Does it even matter?

Time will tell if this will be a massive setback, or if it spurs us on to greater things but god damn it was pathetic. 

 

[Bonkers 910]

6 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

Teams like Richmond can make a commitment at the start of the year to be mentally stronger and give 100% of tough strong Footy for four quarters.

So did Bulldogs the previous year.

So why can’t we?

Talent alone never does it.

We are soft and mentally weak.

You raise a good point. If we were mentally stronger we probably play finals last year, we wouldn't have dropped that Rd23 game.

 

We couldn't go with the Hawks for the whole game today after having them on the rack early. To me that indicates we are capable of beating them. That fade out can't just be down to game plan, some of it has to be mental application and lack of belief after the Hawks gained momentum. It seems this team is yet to believe or they doubt when it gets tough at times.

[bing181 8,149]

22 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Gastro. Lost 4kgs 

Tyson was there today, you see him in that shot where they show Pedersen in the stands. Presumably he'll be available.

[rufus 916]

10 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

Teams like Richmond can make a commitment at the start of the year to be mentally stronger and give 100% of tough strong Footy for four quarters.

So did Bulldogs the previous year.

So why can’t we?

Talent alone never does it.

We are soft and mentally weak.

Very simple sport AFL. Apply pressure to your opponent and play with high intensity and you will be at the least very competitive on the scoreboard.

The bottom end of every single lineup in the AFL has severe weaknesses and can be exposed with pressure and intensity. Once again today our bottom half (and probably more) was exposed by a  level of pressure that we simply didn't want to return.

[DemonOX 8,529]

11 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

I’ve had a couple of hours and a few glasses of red now to relax and calm down and reflect on the game. Bad idea reflecting on the game because I’m now quite frustrated and angry again. 

U need a few actually quiet a few more reds Ethan. 

[Older demon 2,166]

We played dumb footy, didn't tackle as well as them, over possessed, panicked and looked slow.

Brilliant coaching by Clarkson to move the ball quickly, lower eyes and kick to aa lead or to space where their pace killed us. Breust was BOG and Shiels showed a bit too. They smashed our midfield even though maxxy dominated the hit outs.

Our back line is too slow especially against a team like Hawthorn that kick it long to space and allow the small players to run onto the ball. I got sick of the number of goals scored out the back or at the fall of the ball when all our players flew..DUMB.. Sadly Nev is badly out of form, injured or both and has been towelled up. We cannot carry Lewis & Bernie in the same team and Wagner and Hibberd try to fill the same role. We cannot play both as they lack pace. Likewise Melksham, Bugg, Harmes & Kent are all too similar and 2nd stringers. They cannot all be in the team at the same time. I know every team has to work through injuries but Tommy and Viney leave big shoes to fill

To those who asked earlier why Hoges didn't go to the middle. He  was getting lots of attention for his groin and after half time ran around and went to the bench for treatement before taking his starting place. I suspect this is why he didn't move to the midfield sfter half time. If Hogan is in the middle or marking on the wing there is no one who can take an overhead mark up forward. Contiually we kick it up in the air to a packed back line. Fritch is the only marking target playing in his 4th game.

Dumb football in a game wherer we were, out coached out muscled and out played.This loss is one of the worst in the last 2 seasons and left a foul taste in my mouth for the lack of effort.

[DeeZee 6,719]

Out backline has completely changed this year.

The run we had with Hunt and Hibberd has disappeared .

Is it form,dumb coaching or an actual unbalancing in trying to accommodate Lever?

[Demon Dynasty 15,202]

37 minutes ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

So you know how I keep pointing out how we play like little kids, and everyone always tries to win the ball instead of one person getting the ball while the others create room for them, and how we get torn apart when we bomb the ball to the hot spot, and how in marking contests everyone tries to mark the ball and nobody stays down for the crumb? 

All of that.  Again.  Can we admit that there's a problem with the coaching panel now? 

I can't argue with any of that Ralph.  We have been doing this for years, some quarters we don't and play well but we are lucky if it lasts for a quarter or just over before we go back to type.

The other impact of so many at the drop of the ball is that so many players are so close to one another it makes it easy for the opponent to just sit on the outside, sweat on and pressure us as they aren't dumb enough to send more than one or two in to the contest like us.  As soon as they win it they have one or two extra on the fringe that remained out and they're off.  Meanwhile we have one or two (two many) still close to the original contest or getting up off the ground at the contest, standing flat footed having forgotten even where their direct opponent is....which is quite often the one receiving and running off!

One of the classic "all up for the marking contests" was the one where Smith thought about it but instead waited off the back and the crumb came straight to him off the side for the easy snap.

My assessment is we have a playing list of approx 15 or so that can play "sometimes" but not for more than 2 or 3 quarters max at a level required to win against rated teams.   The rest are (to this point) VFL level at best and a bridge too far for AFL.  And as you say, the way we play is also amateur far too often.  That is either a list that is unable to learn basic disciplines or instructions (not all necessarily but far too many) or the coaching panel are not up to scratch. Maybe a combination of both.

[rjay 23,852]

25 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The momentum seemed to change when Max missed that goal from almost exactly the same spot as the one against the Cats. McEvoy got into his ear before he kicked it and he just couldn't drill it to get the monkey off the back. After that the Hawks seemed to go up a gear like they knew they had us mentally and we went backwards.

Our pressure and run was great early then we just stopped. We'd switch the play and none of our players would be running hard to push across. Was too reminiscent of years gone by. 

As always I'll wait and see how we respond. I had us losing this and beating the Tigers. Although I didn't think we'd lose like that and Richmond absolutely demoralised the Lions so the next game will be interesting .

 

Yep, and then Frost gave up a couple of howlers...all momentum gone.

[Red But Mostly Blue 3,612]

20 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

I’ve had a couple of hours and a few glasses of red now to relax and calm down and reflect on the game. Bad idea reflecting on the game because I’m now quite frustrated and angry again. 

I also thought it might be better after a few glasses of red, but no such luck. May as well finish the bottle. Unlike the Dees today, I'm seeing this through to the end! ? ... ☹️

[chook fowler 18,173]

10 days is time enough for a camp. May I suggest Stalag 13.

[Demon Dynasty 15,202]

35 minutes ago, DemonOX said:

I’m just sic of reading and writing the same comments for the past 12 yrs. 

it never seems to change which is really disappointing and other teams continually pass us. 

My god it’s hard to keep supporting them and it’s really hard to keep the kids on board. 

In Hawthorn's case they haven't passed us Ox, we've just never caught up.

[bush demon 1,875]

The Hawks smelt fear when we kept missing easy set shots early - Gawn, ANB, Bugg. Thankfully only a 250k round trip on the Vline bus. Won't make that mistake again, and again ... and again. 

[Redleg 37,473]

3 hours ago, Watts the matter said:

Wiseblood, you are probably the most optimistic poster so that shows how big the problem is. Fairly sure it was you who said they weren't worried at half time?

Smart teams are always going to expose us on the rebound. Our backline and structure is rubbish. Lever has made us worse. 

We are scored against like a rugby sevens side and it is glaringly obvious, yet nothing is done about it. 

Fast break going the other way and it is a score to the opposition every time. 

Surely the coaches are not blind, but they are obviously dumb or stupid.

Continue to play like this and today is what happens.

[titan_uranus 22,219]

We have a lot of problems.

I'm not fussed about being 12th on the ladder, or being 2-2 - we've beaten two bad sides and lost to two good ones, those aren't on their own a problem.

It's what has been happening for a month now and the things that have gone backwards from 2017.

Our leaders remain abysmal. Lewis was terrible and Vince was IMO worse - Vince is the laziest SOB, he refused to bend over and pick the ball up today and just tried to kick it off the ground. An embarrassment. Jones was sent to Mitchell but either because of that or because he's never been a great leader, he never tried to arrest the slide in Q2 or Q3 when we desperately needed someone to stand up and lead.

Our inefficiency going forwards isn't improving. It was bad in 2017. It's just as bad, if not worse, in 2018. We should have been 6 goals up after the first 20 minutes. The game was practically played in our forward third. But we were only 20 points up and so a quick couple of goals to Hawthorn and the game was evened up. Same in Q2 - we were generally even with them but 4.0 to 0.4 ruins everything.

We carry too many unskilled, VFL-at-best players. When one or two have an off day, we can cope, but when they are all down we are made to look VFL-standard. The main culprits here are Bugg, Harmes, ANB, Wagner, Kent, Melksham, Frost. Kent and ANB were serviceable, the others were terrible.

We concede goals far too easily in defence on transition. This is as bad, if not worse, than last year. Frustratingly, we all saw this coming during the week. Hawthorn were always going to have a small and fast forward line but what did we do about it? We continue to play "our way", which means we press up in our forward half. Clarkson knew what he needed to do and we got burned out the back like we have so many times over the last year.

The defensive set up isn't working, but nor are key backline players. Something's clearly not working with Lever. His confidence is shot, I'm sure partly because in the first two rounds we tried making him a key defender which he simply isn't. He's at least getting to more contests now as a third man and spoiling the ball but his skills have plummeted and he's a liability when he goes near it. Hunt's already been dropped, Jetta's playing so poorly he deserves to be dropped, and Hibberd's fallen away from last year's admittedly lofty standards. Throw in the woeful Vince and Lewis and we're left with a scarily bad backline.

We're being outcoached on game day. Goodwin seems to refuse to make changes until it's too late. We leave one off the back of the square, or we leave an opposition loose man in defence, or we don't man up on game-changers, or we don't rotate players to get them into the game (did we ever try putting Garlett in the middle to get him into the game?).

Selection isn't helping either - going in without a second tall to back up Gawn in the ruck is just stupid. It might work against a side like North Melbourne but it was arrogant to try it against Hawthorn. 

I've already read a number of comments about watching whether or not we respond next week. I fully expect us to play 100 times better. For the last few years we've generally responded well to bad losses. But the above problems are a month old, not just one week old, and it's clear not enough has been done by the players or coaches to fix them. And until we do, we can respond to bad games all we want, the bad games are going to keep happening and we're not going to go anywhere.

Edited April 15, 2018 by titan_uranus

[Ethan Tremblay 28,288]

1 hour ago, DemonOX said:

U need a few actually quiet a few more reds Ethan. 

It’s not working. I like to think I normally move on pretty quick after a loss but this ones different, I’m still quite peeved. It was a pathetic effort by the players and coaches, we’ve gone backwards since last season and it’s very disappointing.