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Is Goodwin the right guy....

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19 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

You know how to google - do it yourself. 

The articles are there.  Start with those around the time Roos was appointed coach and work your way forward.

Not looking to weigh in on the argument, but my recollection was that he signed on for 2 years with the option of a 3rd which he took and that the plan was always to get the club on track then hand over to the mentee coach. I hadn’t heard that he wanted to stay on as a coaching director. I couldn’t find anything on google  to support that he wanted to be a coaching director beyond the original 2-3 term. Do you have a specific article in mind?

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6 minutes ago, --coach-- said:

Not looking to weigh in on the argument, but my recollection was that he signed on for 2 years with the option of a 3rd which he took and that the plan was always to get the club on track then hand over to the mentee coach. I hadn’t heard that he wanted to stay on as a coaching director. I couldn’t find anything on google  to support that he wanted to be a coaching director beyond the original 2-3 term. Do you have a specific article in mind?

Doesn’t mention a role though. 

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/melbourne/melbourne-wants-paul-roos-to-stay-involved-with-the-club-after-his-coaching-contract-ends/news-story/d7dad70118d902821b2ced1bf687f03e

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/melbourne/melbourne-coach-paul-roos-would-like-to-stay-at-demons-beyond-2016-but-not-as-senior-coach/news-story/b0215498d6151ef52a61dad52b5db512

Edited by Ethan Tremblay
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2 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Thanks Ethan, I don’t read that as hard and fast though, more of speculation on behalf of PJ. Much can change in twelve months with respect to media, family etc

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Roos is still coaching on the couch. An actual Armchair expert. Love seeing the first 10 mins of that show dedicated to us. Hope the players watch. I would assume (and hope) Goody is on top of everything mentioned without giving it a watch. Pedo playing this week might confirm he's being proactive about some holes.

Edited by Doodle Dee
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I dont think they ever got to the point of a specific role, just a kinda agreement to look at something if desired.

Of course...things changed.

And there the idea died.

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1 hour ago, --coach-- said:

Not looking to weigh in on the argument, but my recollection was that he signed on for 2 years with the option of a 3rd which he took and that the plan was always to get the club on track then hand over to the mentee coach. I hadn’t heard that he wanted to stay on as a coaching director. I couldn’t find anything on google  to support that he wanted to be a coaching director beyond the original 2-3 term. Do you have a specific article in mind?

Thank you for asking nicely.  So I have gone searching.

Here is an article in Sept 2013 by Jon Pierik who writes for The Age, altho this article was published in a different newspaper.

https://www.bordermail.com.au/story/1760821/roos-may-hang-around/

The first line says:  "Paul Roos could remain at Melbourne as the director of football when his coaching contract expires'.  Then:  The Demons and Roos are keen to continue their relationship once the Swans premiership mentor leaves coaching and hands power to a preordained senior assistant.

My recollection is that some discussion along those lines occurred during the initial press conference when Roos was appointed.

 

1 hour ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Many thanks ET for contributing those.

From the second article written in May 2014 "But the Sydney premiership mentor said he was eager to stay on in some other role with the Demons after his coaching stint had finished...“In some shape or form I would like to stay involved in the footy club,” Roos said.

From the first article written in August 2015 it says: . 

Roos will be replaced by coach-in-waiting Simon Goodwin at the end of 2016, but Demons chief executive Peter Jackson said he believed Roos would want to stay involved with the club in some capacity...“Roosy and I have had an earlier conversation where he’ll be around the club in some form, I hope,” Jackson told 3AW.  “I think he would want to be. I think he’s not just going to come in and walk away, I think there’ll be a role for him to play.

54 minutes ago, --coach-- said:

Thanks Ethan, I don’t read that as hard and fast though, more of speculation on behalf of PJ. Much can change in twelve months with respect to media, family etc

Perhaps not hard and fast.  Perhaps not a specific role but the above shows there was a regular dialogue between Roos and Jackson on him staying in some capacity.   Director of Football was mentioned at different stages more as an example than as specifics. I recall even in early 2016 Roos saying he and PJ had discussions around what a role might look like and would continue those after the bye - can't find that article.  Obviously something changed over the following months because after round 23 he left.

 

 

So, I don't think my comments in an earlier post that Roos said he wanted to stay were speculation.   And if it wasn't Director of Football or Coaching it is reasonable to think a role would be related to football.

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
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@Lucifer's Hero you have to wonder if roos is doing what he did pre-demons. Laying low on the couch in the media until a coaching opportunity arises. I cant see Roos being involved with us and also with an eye on coaching another team. Some have intuited that he may have his eyes on Collingwood to see what occurs over the next year or two. 

Edited by Doodle Dee

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1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Thank you for asking nicely.  So I have gone searching.

Here is an article in Sept 2013 by Jon Pierik who writes for The Age, altho this article was published in a different newspaper.

https://www.bordermail.com.au/story/1760821/roos-may-hang-around/

The first line says:  "Paul Roos could remain at Melbourne as the director of football when his coaching contract expires'.  Then:  The Demons and Roos are keen to continue their relationship once the Swans premiership mentor leaves coaching and hands power to a preordained senior assistant.

My recollection is that some discussion along those lines occurred during the initial press conference when Roos was appointed.

 

Many thanks ET for contributing those.

From the second article written in May 2014 "But the Sydney premiership mentor said he was eager to stay on in some other role with the Demons after his coaching stint had finished...“In some shape or form I would like to stay involved in the footy club,” Roos said.

From the first article written in August 2015 it says: . 

Roos will be replaced by coach-in-waiting Simon Goodwin at the end of 2016, but Demons chief executive Peter Jackson said he believed Roos would want to stay involved with the club in some capacity...“Roosy and I have had an earlier conversation where he’ll be around the club in some form, I hope,” Jackson told 3AW.  “I think he would want to be. I think he’s not just going to come in and walk away, I think there’ll be a role for him to play.

Perhaps not hard and fast.  Perhaps not a specific role but the above shows there was a regular dialogue between Roos and Jackson on him staying in some capacity.   Director of Football was mentioned at different stages more as an example than as specifics. I recall even in early 2016 Roos saying he and PJ had discussions around what a role might look like and would continue those after the bye - can't find that article.  Obviously something changed over the following months because after round 23 he left.

 

 

So, I don't think my comments in an earlier post that Roos said he wanted to stay were speculation.   And if it wasn't Director of Football or Coaching it is reasonable to think a role would be related to football.

I never thought Roos would stay on...I always believe the puff pieces about him staying on as Football Director and some such were just that, puff pieces.

They were to keep things stable so as the supporters (us) felt warm and fuzzy and to keep the media off our backs.

Remember, Roos is a master of smoke and mirrors...

Edited by rjay
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Attempted deleted post ...

Edited by bing181

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1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

 

"Paul Roos has no plans to extend his stay at Melbourne beyond next season."

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/melbourne/paul-roos-has-no-plans-to-extend-his-stay-at-melbourne-beyond-next-season/news-story/1de55f8cf51b3b44d8f85acf29dbfd99

"Paul Roos has affirmed his intention to walk away from coaching at the end of this season." (and no mention of wanting to stay involved in any other capacity)

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/melbourne/paul-roos-says-he-wont-return-to-afl-coaching-after-this-year/news-story/0e6341053d08e4ee8ae419fb99c8823d

etc. etc.

The rest was nothing but open-ended speculation, much of it from journos.

 

Edited by bing181
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The bloke has coached less than 30 games, surely this thread is the biggest over reaction I have ever seen. 

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4 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

The bloke has coached less than 30 games, surely this thread is the biggest over reaction I have ever seen. 

His win loss ratio is also in positive for his first year as coach. By comparison Hardwick only broke into the positive after 2017. If he was a Peter Rhodes or a Mark Neeld, this thread would be justified. But otherwise, he needs another year at least.

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6 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

The bloke has coached less than 30 games, surely this thread is the biggest over reaction I have ever seen. 

Not at all. I have been genuinely worried since Round 23 last year. 

I think motivational skills are lacking big time with Simon, skills that are so important on Match Day

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1 minute ago, Krabo said:

His win loss ratio is also in positive for his first year as coach. By comparison Hardwick only broke into the positive after 2017. If he was a Peter Rhodes or a Mark Neeld, this thread would be justified. But otherwise, he needs another year at least.

100%

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3 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

With the exception of Ben Mattews they were selected by Goodwin. 

Seriously? ... McCartney, Rawlings, Papp, Jennings, Stafford were all there under Roos. (Not to mention almost the entire fitness/conditioning, football operations and list management staff).

In any case, Goodwin doesn't get to single-handedly select anyone, we don't have CEO's, a Board and General Managers for nothing.

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4 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Seriously? ... McCartney, Rawlings, Papp, Jennings, Stafford were all there under Roos. (Not to mention almost the entire fitness/conditioning, football operations and list management staff).

In any case, Goodwin doesn't get to single-handedly select anyone, we don't have CEO's, a Board and General Managers for nothing.

You need to study timelines before uttering such cavalier put downs.

McCartney was a Goodwin acquisition. Roos was allowing Goodwin to build his team. 

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5 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

You need to study timelines before uttering such cavalier put downs.

McCartney was a Goodwin acquisition. Roos was allowing Goodwin to build his team. 

Was he?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/melbourne/brendan-mccartney-joins-melbourne-coaching-panel-as-former-bulldogs-coach-quickly-finds-new-job/news-story/0195871f74757af3866381e26fdfbeae

He was acquired while Roos was still senior coach.  Obviously there was a long term plan in mind, but Goodwin didn't act alone at all in getting him to the club.  No mention of Roos 'allowing' Goodwin to choose him without any input from him.

The rest that bing mentioned are all correct as well.

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Just now, Wiseblood said:

Was he?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/melbourne/brendan-mccartney-joins-melbourne-coaching-panel-as-former-bulldogs-coach-quickly-finds-new-job/news-story/0195871f74757af3866381e26fdfbeae

He was acquired while Roos was still senior coach.  Obviously there was a long term plan in mind, but Goodwin didn't act alone at all in getting him to the club.  No mention of Roos 'allowing' Goodwin to choose him without any input from him.

The rest that bing mentioned are all correct as well.

Not everything makes it to the Hun. My god. Do  some real research...not keyboard warrioring. 

Of course Roos was snr coach. He was at that point beginning his mentoring of Goodwin. Maybe get off your chair and converse with some involved. Amazing what you can learn. 

By all means believe a paper.Ill believe my info.

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Hey bub.  I love how you post this:

15 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

You need to study timelines before uttering such cavalier put downs.

And then respond to someone else with this:

3 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Not everything makes it to the Hun. My god. Do  some real research...not keyboard warrioring. 

Of course Roos was snr coach. He was at that point beginning his mentoring of Goodwin. Maybe get off your chair and converse with some involved. Amazing what you can learn. 

By all means believe a paper.Ill believe my info.

For the record, I wasn't having a dip.  Just asking the question.  You're the one who got his knickers in a twist and acted like a child when I asked the question.  

You said that McCartney was a Goodwin choice.  No doubt he had a large say, but as he wasn't senior coach, it wouldn't have been the only say.  That's all.  @bing181's point is still valid.

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19 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Not everything makes it to the Hun. My god. Do  some real research...not keyboard warrioring. 

Of course Roos was snr coach. He was at that point beginning his mentoring of Goodwin. Maybe get off your chair and converse with some involved. Amazing what you can learn. 

By all means believe a paper.Ill believe my info.

You ‘liked’ someone else’s arguments above where they have quoted from a paper so you must give it some cred?

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8 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Hey bub.  I love how you post this:

And then respond to someone else with this:

For the record, I wasn't having a dip.  Just asking the question.  You're the one who got his knickers in a twist and acted like a child when I asked the question.  

You said that McCartney was a Goodwin choice.  No doubt he had a large say, but as he wasn't senior coach, it wouldn't have been the only say.  That's all.  @bing181's point is still valid.

You weren't asking a question you were iterating media ruminants. 

Say what you like. My boxers are fine btw.

You're waffling in generalities as though fact...you suppose...and no doubt etc. 

No Goodwin wasn't the only won involved. It certainly wasn't Roos choice. Make of that what you will.

There are many around, indeed some post on these threads, some just read them ( hi to you all ;) ) that are only too aware of the history about this. Little will actually make its way to the pixels of a forum. Thats a given.

Youre an intelligent sort. I invite you to go beyond media. I again suggest you might interest yourself in the timeline of events say...over the last 3-4 years. Then keep looking. ..or not.

Its not a big world Footy actually. Suprising what other clubs know about...other clubs.

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5 hours ago, hemingway said:

Perhaps it is the reality.

However, as supporters, we look at these things against the background of history and its disappointments.

Footy is an emotional game and perhaps the most difficult thing as a supporter is dealing with our expectations.

My concern is that the mood of supporters and the footy industry is unforgiving and unless teams show improvement, then retribution is severe and can be damaging to the club and its future. 

Melbourne has had more attacks and criticism than most. It has been very damaging to the morale of the club and its supporters. I am not sure it can take much more. 

Perception is reality. 

The only way to mitigate that force is to start winning games and soon.  

 

 

 

And as a club and supporter base, stop making excuses for pitiful capitulations like Sunday.  This is the year we need to stop making excuses and grow a pair as a Club and start asking more from everyone involved.  PJ you're up mate!

2018 ....NO MORE RUBBISH PERFORMANCES FROM ANYONE.....NO MORE EXCUSES!!

Get it done PJ & Goody or show the habitual under performers the door (including line coaches and everyone involved in the FD!... Everyone needs to feel the heat and pronto!  Ship up or shape out fellas!  Finals or bust!!)

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6 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Bb, my fear is we don't have a 'rudder'!

Hence, my comments yesterday about the success of Fagan and Balme mentoring Clarkson, Thompson, Scott and Hardwick.  As much as I think Macca and Mahoney do their 'day jobs' very well, I'm not sure mentoring a rookie coach with a very inexperienced coaching panel, is their forte.  Even at Geelong Macca had the benefit of Balme being in control.

The original plan was for Roos to stay on as 'Director of Coaching' or something similar.  For some reason that fell through and Macca and Mahoney are filling the gaps. 

I feel we need some experience in the coaching and football department to provide that 'rudder' as you call it.  Anyone notice that George Stone joined GCS as mentor to Dew late last year...

Fagan at the Hawks please review history and not what Clarkson is today. From 04 to the start of 07 there was a lot of Hawks people still unsure about him. I recall one ex player saying how confused the players were with his tactics but they felt once they understood it and knew exactly what each players job was and etarted to tryst the structures put in place they would flourish. Mark Thompson was nearly out the door at the end of 2006 when the up and coming Cats had a doen year. It was the leadership group and the players who kept him from the scrapheap. Roll back to 2016 and Dimmer was in the same boat.

What we have in common with those sides is this. Our 08 to 12 rebuild failed ee started again and are just starting to see that now but there will be bumps along the way.

The Cats started to hit their straps in 04 and 05 with the father son picks and drafted players picked up in 99 and 01 like Scarlett Enright Johnson Chapman Bartel Ablett Rooke and Kelly forming the nucleus of that side who flourished once they started getting to 60/80 + games

The Hawks likewise from 07 on wards (barring 09) getting the 01 and 04 drafted players to that 60/80 + game mark. Hodge Mitchell Lewis Roughie Ellis Birchall Buddy formed that core group.

The Tigers won a flag off the back of 4 stars drafted between 07 and 10 Riewoldt Rance Martin and Cotchin. It took them a fair while to rise.

So just be patient and don't get caught up in that we've been waiting 54 years stuff. Is Goodwin the man? Who knows but building a sustainable list takes a lot of time

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2 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Fagan at the Hawks please review history and not what Clarkson is today. From 04 to the start of 07 there was a lot of Hawks people still unsure about him. I recall one ex player saying how confused the players were with his tactics but they felt once they understood it and knew exactly what each players job was and etarted to tryst the structures put in place they would flourish. Mark Thompson was nearly out the door at the end of 2006 when the up and coming Cats had a doen year. It was the leadership group and the players who kept him from the scrapheap. Roll back to 2016 and Dimmer was in the same boat.

What we have in common with those sides is this. Our 08 to 12 rebuild failed ee started again and are just starting to see that now but there will be bumps along the way.

The Cats started to hit their straps in 04 and 05 with the father son picks and drafted players picked up in 99 and 01 like Scarlett Enright Johnson Chapman Bartel Ablett Rooke and Kelly forming the nucleus of that side who flourished once they started getting to 60/80 + games

The Hawks likewise from 07 on wards (barring 09) getting the 01 and 04 drafted players to that 60/80 + game mark. Hodge Mitchell Lewis Roughie Ellis Birchall Buddy formed that core group.

The Tigers won a flag off the back of 4 stars drafted between 07 and 10 Riewoldt Rance Martin and Cotchin. It took them a fair while to rise.

So just be patient and don't get caught up in that we've been waiting 54 years stuff. Is Goodwin the man? Who knows but building a sustainable list takes a lot of time

Yes I’ve been waiting 54 years, but agree with your comments. It’s typically a slow process.

But first time in my life, we have the emerging talent. Need to get coaching right and be patient, as much as it ...... me off!

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28 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

And as a club and supporter base, stop making excuses for pitiful capitulations like Sunday.  This is the year we need to stop making excuses and grow a pair as a Club and start asking more from everyone involved.  PJ you're up mate!

2018 ....NO MORE RUBBISH PERFORMANCES FROM ANYONE.....NO MORE EXCUSES!!

Get it done PJ & Goody or show the habitual under performers the door (including line coaches and everyone involved in the FD!... Everyone needs to feel the heat and pronto!  Ship up or shape out fellas!  Finals or bust!!)

Richmond lost by 11+ goals twice last season. Once to a team that didn’t play finals. It happens.

People seem to think that not storming the club with pitch forks & torches after a loss means it’s accepting it. 

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