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7 minutes ago, Demonland said:

Let's keep it on topic folks.

Is Goodwin the right guy?

Was there ever any doubt?

No for me - but the media has made an art/sport out of coach destroying, suppose it sells newspapers. 

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Just now, Sir Why You Little said:

Yes there was after Rounds 23 last year and Round 4 this year. 

Our defensive side of the game was a total shambles

The encouraging thing about round four was that there was sober analysis as to what was going wrong.

It wasn't a case of not trying. In fact, the attack on the ball and tackling pressure against the Tiges was more than decent. It was a case of slow ball movement that allowed them to set up their back six to pick off rushed delivery into the forward 50. 

Instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water, we acknowledged what was working and pin pointed what wasn't.

One thing I'm very impressed by (and something that leaves the vapid talking heads befuddled) is that Goody hasn't been reactive to the so called  chic trends of the game. Apparently after Richmond's flag last year, no one would ever play a tall forward line again and if you did, you may need to remove your shoes to count to 20. Instead Goody had backed in his own idea of having two aerobically powerful tall forwards in. Since T-Mac had come back, it's worked a treat. Hopefully it will continue.

 

 

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I'll add that if anyone wants to bait and troll each other in this thread or others you will find yourself banned without any further warnings. I did a similar thing a few years ago and I know that the main culprits are in this thread. I don't read every post but if I see baiting or trolling from any sides in this pissing contest be warned now because you may be banned.

I'm not perfect when it comes to this moderating thing and I hate doing it but if you continue to make the experience of this site unpleasant for the majority of people who read but don't post often or at all then you will be gone.

I don't care if you're usually a good contributor to the site with insightful posts, if you bait or troll you may be gone.

If you don't care for a particular poster put them on ignore or just scroll past their posts or use the report post feature.

LAST WARNING TO ALL.

 

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Posted (edited)

Earlier in the season I questioned whether he could ad the tweaks to the game style that were required, he has answered that.  The defence has adjusted and we seem to be playing that last player deeper.  It also helps when you are controlling the midfield.

Not having 4 blokes flying for a mark also helping.  22 blokes in form also helping.

I thought Goodwin's press conference was excellent.  Measured, not effusive.  Looked like a man who expects a whole lot more.  At this stage he is just "pleased"

 

 

 

Edited by Stretch Johnson
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25 minutes ago, Stretch Johnson said:

Earlier in the season I questioned whether he could ad the tweaks to the game style that were required, he has answered that.  The defence has adjusted and we seem to be playing that last player deeper.  It also helps when you are controlling the midfield.

Not having 4 blokes flying for a mark also helping.  22 blokes in form also helping.

I thought Goodwin's press conference was excellent.  Measured, not effusive.  Looked like a man who expects a whole lot more.  at this stage he is just "pleased"

 

 

 

Yep i agree. After Round 4 i didn’t think he was the man for the job. But he went away and made changes. At this stage it looks like he made the right changes, so that gains respect. 

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52 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

The encouraging thing about round four was that there was sober analysis as to what was going wrong.

It wasn't a case of not trying. In fact, the attack on the ball and tackling pressure against the Tiges was more than decent. It was a case of slow ball movement that allowed them to set up their back six to pick off rushed delivery into the forward 50. 

Instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water, we acknowledged what was working and pin pointed what wasn't.

One thing I'm very impressed by (and something that leaves the vapid talking heads befuddled) is that Goody hasn't been reactive to the so called  chic trends of the game. Apparently after Richmond's flag last year, no one would ever play a tall forward line again and if you did, you may need to remove your shoes to count to 20. Instead Goody had backed in his own idea of having two aerobically powerful tall forwards in. Since T-Mac had come back, it's worked a treat. Hopefully it will continue.

 

 

Sorry but did you miss Rds 3-5 when he went to the exact replica of the Richmond model!

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49 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

The encouraging thing about round four was that there was sober analysis as to what was going wrong.

It wasn't a case of not trying. In fact, the attack on the ball and tackling pressure against the Tiges was more than decent. It was a case of slow ball movement that allowed them to set up their back six to pick off rushed delivery into the forward 50. 

Instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water, we acknowledged what was working and pin pointed what wasn't.

One thing I'm very impressed by (and something that leaves the vapid talking heads befuddled) is that Goody hasn't been reactive to the so called  chic trends of the game. Apparently after Richmond's flag last year, no one would ever play a tall forward line again and if you did, you may need to remove your shoes to count to 20. Instead Goody had backed in his own idea of having two aerobically powerful tall forwards in. Since T-Mac had come back, it's worked a treat. Hopefully it will continue.

 

 

Think your comments are spot on Col.

I might say that one of the reasons why Geelong is struggling is slow ball movement. Sure they have other problems, but they take for ever to try and pinpoint and then kick to a team mate, usually with  little short dinky kicks to a stationary player. It was evident in the game against the Demons but they have not fixed the problem.

Goodwin and the coaching staff seem to have addressed our weaknesses since the early games. Most importantly, our run and ball movement has markedly increased. 

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The game against Hawthorn was probably the worst game we have played this year. Coming on the back of the disappointing end to last season it was appropriate to question the skills of the coaching group.

There was no doubt that we have a good list (not the best but it is definitely a top 10 list.)

The addition of Tom Mac and another tall in Weideman and now Smith has turned the team around from a scoring viewpoint. I am now happy with the coach but that does not mean he gets my blind support indefinitely.

Anyway I now intend to ignore this thread for a while and enjoy the next few wins as I head to the World Cup in Russia.

Go Dees

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He sure has gone back to basics and not being cute, credit to him, like Hardwick, had to change and now the boys have embraced it. We were on an ugly path, even gameplan has changed, not bombing long etc. well done Simon, credit to you. You can’t blame others for hating losing, all anyone wants here is the best for the club and winning is best.

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Goody deserves a lot of credit after rejigging since the Rd 5 loss.

Among the changes since then are:

1) removal of guys whose kicking skills are not always reliable, even at the expense of pace - Hunt, Frost - and hard workers like Bugg and eventually Wagner and Tyson.

2) Switching our most accurate kicks back to defence - Salem and Lewis

3) removal of our low pressure forwards - Garlett and Fritsch (the latter being sent to the wing)

4) Major decision to go with a power forward target who is less likely to be pushed under the ball (Weid and now Smith) in preference to Bugg and Fritsch and Jeffy.

5) Use of T-Mac in tandem with Jesse as roaming forwards that provide outlet up wings and then cutback hard to maximise their endurance skills.

6) Return of the wings with Angus and Fritsch being tall and not as slow as Jordy and Tyson. 

7) Going with a highly-skilled youngster in Spargo and recalling Hannan who are both way more aggressive than Jeffy.

8 Sticking by hardworking, hardrunning types such as ANB and Harmes even when almost every Demonlander wants them out.

And most importantly the other major structural change which is partly to do with confidence has been to reinvoke the permission to switch the ball from down back. 

Obviously not having any significant injuries helps as well, but that's more credit to fitness staff than Goody.

 

 

 

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and let's keep some perspective.

richmond had a worst start to the season last year than us this year, and we know how that worked out

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1 hour ago, Stretch Johnson said:

Earlier in the season I questioned whether he could ad the tweaks to the game style that were required, he has answered that.  The defence has adjusted and we seem to be playing that last player deeper.  It also helps when you are controlling the midfield.

Not having 4 blokes flying for a mark also helping.  22 blokes in form also helping.

I thought Goodwin's press conference was excellent.  Measured, not effusive.  Looked like a man who expects a whole lot more.  At this stage he is just "pleased"

 

 

 

Agree. He gets big points for me for fixing basic stuff mid season, like your example of multiple blokes going up to spoil.

Another really good example is not having mutiple blokes going in for ground balls and instead spreading from the contest (often forward of the contest) and trusting team mates to win the ball. This is a simple thing but has really helped us move the ball quickly and transition.

No easy thing to change habits in season.  Kudos to all the coaches.

On coaches i wonder if some of those who bagged chaplin might be reconsidering their opinion.

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

Sorry but did you miss Rds 3-5 when he went to the exact replica of the Richmond model!

That was more out of necessity if anything for mine. Tommy Mc was still hurt and while they had the height to play one part of the equation to play that role, neither Pedo or Weed had the engine.

Goody always flagged McDonald for a forward rule since preseason. That for mine shows that he was going to go against established orthodoxy from the start of the year.

Edited by Colin B. Flaubert
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“if you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two imposters the same...”

This is my greatest admiration of Goody, he’s just so measured, win or loss. I can see him on GF day, holding the cup with barely a half smile.

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9 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

That was more out of necessity if anything for mine. Tommy Mc was still hurt and while they had the height to play one part of the equation to play that role, neither had the engine.

Goody always flagged McDonald for a forward rule since preseason. That for mine shows that he was going to go against established orthodoxy from the start of the year.

He dropped Pedo (who was trying to play the T-Mac role in Rd 3) - that was when he decided to experiment with Tiger model. 

Then he switched to the WC and Adelaide models by bringing in Weid in Rd 6 as well as getting T-Mac back.

It doesn't mean the Richmond model is wrong - it just means both WC and us play very few night games and if you kick precisely then having three talls up forward can work.  

But come the winter months with slippery conditions (except at Etihad), then Goody will have to review again.

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32 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

Goody deserves a lot of credit after rejigging since the Rd 5 loss.

Among the changes since then are:

1) removal of guys whose kicking skills are not always reliable, even at the expense of pace - Hunt, Frost - and hard workers like Bugg and eventually Wagner and Tyson.

2) Switching our most accurate kicks back to defence - Salem and Lewis

3) removal of our low pressure forwards - Garlett and Fritsch (the latter being sent to the wing)

4) Major decision to go with a power forward target who is less likely to be pushed under the ball (Weid and now Smith) in preference to Bugg and Fritsch and Jeffy.

5) Use of T-Mac in tandem with Jesse as roaming forwards that provide outlet up wings and then cutback hard to maximise their endurance skills.

6) Return of the wings with Angus and Fritsch being tall and not as slow as Jordy and Tyson. 

7) Going with a highly-skilled youngster in Spargo and recalling Hannan who are both way more aggressive than Jeffy.

8 Sticking by hardworking, hardrunning types such as ANB and Harmes even when almost every Demonlander wants them out.

And most importantly the other major structural change which is partly to do with confidence has been to reinvoke the permission to switch the ball from down back. 

Obviously not having any significant injuries helps as well, but that's more credit to fitness staff than Goody.

 

 

 

One of your best posts Deespicable. Agree with every point, and add delivery into forward 50 is being beautifully mixed up........

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3 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

He dropped Pedo (who was trying to play the T-Mac role in Rd 3) - that was when he decided to experiment with Tiger model. 

Then he switched to the WC and Adelaide models by bringing in Weid in Rd 6 as well as getting T-Mac back.

It doesn't mean the Richmond model is wrong - it just means both WC and us play very few night games and if you kick precisely then having three talls up forward can work.  

But come the winter months with slippery conditions (except at Etihad), then Goody will have to review again.

I've always maintained that regardless of personnel, the premiers are normally setting a footballing trend and not following it. I don't think we've switched to a WC or Adelaide model. Instead I think with the use of Hogan and McDonald pushing relentlessly up and down the ground, we've created our own model. Add our use of spinners off half back and we're definitely doing things a little differently.

Contested marking was also a concern of mine at times last year and early this year. If Gawn wasn't clunking a mark out of defence then we were struggling. We now have Gawn, McDonald and Hogan giving us quality aerial targets out of defence and then down the wing. And even if all three of them are involved in the transition from defence we've still got Smith/Weideman as a potential target for a bail out kick but more likely the workrate and contest marking of the big 3 mean that we've opened up the forward line for the likes of ANB, Hannan, Spargo or Petracca who are regularly marking uncontested. That's why we lead the league in marks inside 50. I'm not sure anyone is playing like (or as well for that matter) as us at the moment. And what pleases me most is that it's not like another team can simply alter their tactics to combat it or duplicate the approach themselves because they simply don't have the cattle. Hogan, McDonald and Gawn are rare commodities. And we've got all of them, healthy and in form.

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On 4/15/2018 at 7:19 PM, ProDee said:

I don't think I'm going out on a limb here when I suggest that not one nuffie who has posted on this thread knows whether Goodwin can coach. or not.

I also recognise that every coach in history has had nuffies call for their head.  Early days Clarkson had it, Bomber Thompson had it, and virtually his entire coaching career Hardwicke has had it. It comes with the territory.    

Nuffies are going to nuff.

In 26 games he's had more wins than losses, so I'll cut a young coach some slack in round 4.

Do yourself a favour and reread the first couple of pages of this thread.

And yes, I'm being terribly self-indulgent.

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On 4/15/2018 at 7:19 PM, ProDee said:

While I'm at it, Harmes, Melksham and a few others can you know what.

We're all nuffies at some time or other.

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On 4/15/2018 at 7:05 PM, Moonshadow said:

A very interesting thread to bookmark. Lots of Landers will be patting themselves on the back or wiping egg off their face at the end of the year

or sooner Moon!

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, mauriesy said:

We're all nuffies at some time or other.

Nah, those comments were correct.

They were horribly out of form.

The included comments were relative because they were coach specific.

Edited by ProDee

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Deespicable said:

Goody deserves a lot of credit after rejigging since the Rd 5 loss.

Among the changes since then are:

1) removal of guys whose kicking skills are not always reliable, even at the expense of pace - Hunt, Frost - and hard workers like Bugg and eventually Wagner and Tyson.

2) Switching our most accurate kicks back to defence - Salem and Lewis

3) removal of our low pressure forwards - Garlett and Fritsch (the latter being sent to the wing)

4) Major decision to go with a power forward target who is less likely to be pushed under the ball (Weid and now Smith) in preference to Bugg and Fritsch and Jeffy.

5) Use of T-Mac in tandem with Jesse as roaming forwards that provide outlet up wings and then cutback hard to maximise their endurance skills.

6) Return of the wings with Angus and Fritsch being tall and not as slow as Jordy and Tyson. 

7) Going with a highly-skilled youngster in Spargo and recalling Hannan who are both way more aggressive than Jeffy.

8 Sticking by hardworking, hardrunning types such as ANB and Harmes even when almost every Demonlander wants them out.

And most importantly the other major structural change which is partly to do with confidence has been to reinvoke the permission to switch the ball from down back. 

Obviously not having any significant injuries helps as well, but that's more credit to fitness staff than Goody.

Totally agree.  A lot of experimentation was happening in the early rounds resulting in quite a few players in unfamiliar roles and seemingly much confusion on the ground especially vs Hawks.

Would just add one thing - our biggest weakness early in the year was 'we were too easy to score against' imv largely because we played a zone that pressed up really high leaving a paddock behind them.  In the last few games there has nearly always been a defender close to goal and when the opps have the ball our defence goes back 'in formation' and mans up.  A very different defence structure and very few out the back goals lately. 

Given the trends of 2017/early 2018 the very reasonable questions many posters asked (including by some of his most ardent fans) was whether Goodwin was humble enough and flexible enough to learn from mistakes and abandon what wasn't working.  He has answered those questions:  Yes and Yes.

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
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41 minutes ago, binman said:

Agree. He gets big points for me for fixing basic stuff mid season, like your example of multiple blokes going up to spoil.

Another really good example is not having mutiple blokes going in for ground balls and instead spreading from the contest (often forward of the contest) and trusting team mates to win the ball. This is a simple thing but has really helped us move the ball quickly and transition.

No easy thing to change habits in season.  Kudos to all the coaches.

On coaches i wonder if some of those who bagged chaplin might be reconsidering their opinion.

I reckon when you are in control of the contest then you can spread with confidence. 

If you know that you have Oliver, Jones, now Viney along with Brayshaw and Petracca in the clinches you can start to spread knowing that you are a fair chance at getting on the end of it.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Deespicable said:

Goody deserves a lot of credit after rejigging since the Rd 5 loss.

Among the changes since then are:

1) removal of guys whose kicking skills are not always reliable, even at the expense of pace - Hunt, Frost - and hard workers like Bugg and eventually Wagner and Tyson.

2) Switching our most accurate kicks back to defence - Salem and Lewis

3) removal of our low pressure forwards - Garlett and Fritsch (the latter being sent to the wing)

4) Major decision to go with a power forward target who is less likely to be pushed under the ball (Weid and now Smith) in preference to Bugg and Fritsch and Jeffy.

5) Use of T-Mac in tandem with Jesse as roaming forwards that provide outlet up wings and then cutback hard to maximise their endurance skills.

6) Return of the wings with Angus and Fritsch being tall and not as slow as Jordy and Tyson. 

7) Going with a highly-skilled youngster in Spargo and recalling Hannan who are both way more aggressive than Jeffy.

8 Sticking by hardworking, hardrunning types such as ANB and Harmes even when almost every Demonlander wants them out.

And most importantly the other major structural change which is partly to do with confidence has been to reinvoke the permission to switch the ball from down back. 

Obviously not having any significant injuries helps as well, but that's more credit to fitness staff than Goody.

 

 

 

Please dont take this the wrong way - but interestingly an AFL senior coach once said to a group of us. 

You would be amazed at the differnce in what the media sees based on a win or a loss.  Ie the result

Actually many of our recent losses compared to wins we made no significant changes and any changes we did make cannot be attributed to one person ( i think he was refererring to himself  ie head coach ) the results simply went our way.  He particulary then spent the next 40-50 minutes showing us video where players followed the correct instructions - yet some resulted in a loss some in a win. 

I then took this information and started watching many close ( ie close in result ) games completely differently - it blow me away how much money i made from it. 

But each to their own ... 

 

 

Edited by DaveyDee

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30 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

He dropped Pedo (who was trying to play the T-Mac role in Rd 3) - that was when he decided to experiment with Tiger model. 

Then he switched to the WC and Adelaide models by bringing in Weid in Rd 6 as well as getting T-Mac back.

It doesn't mean the Richmond model is wrong - it just means both WC and us play very few night games and if you kick precisely then having three talls up forward can work.  

But come the winter months with slippery conditions (except at Etihad), then Goody will have to review again.

I don't necessarily think the Richmond model is wrong. It works for them and who knows? If the stars align, it might work for us.

My point was more that he hasn't been reactive to the prevailing zeitgeist and gone small for the sake of it. I might still be a bit scarred by 2011 through 2013 but I remember that part of the reason Bails was ultimately sacked was because he didn't play a Collingwood/St. Kilda style press, never mind that he didn't have the personnel for it. 

We then went for a coach who promoted that deliberate style because Collingwood or something and it went to poo.

 

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