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4 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

You're way, way off the mark.

Took you this long to figure that out Wise? 

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Just now, Moonshadow said:

Took you this long to figure that out Wise? 

Ha ha, no, but this just seems way off the mark even for his standards.

I'm still on ignore apparently, so I expect a PM telling me he 'checked' my post within an hour or so.

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1 hour ago, KingDingAling said:

Considering we have the list capable of winning it this year

Delusional. Though you're not alone.

1 hour ago, KingDingAling said:

Our best footy is up there with the best in the comp, and our worst footy is down there with the worst in the comp.

Yep. You get that with inexperience. And not just in footy either. But we're neither as good as those great days, nor as bad as the worst, we're somewhere in the middle. About where we are (2 for 4).

When the bulk of our list and our main playmakers are all over 100 games, only then can we start talking about what might be possible. GWS have had the talent for years, but it's only in the last season or two, as the list matures, that they've started to become serious contenders.

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2 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Why have a captain then?  Your above post makes no sense.  Football clubs constantly talk about how important leadership and culture is.  You're way, way off the mark.

I don't usually read your posts, but I'll answer this one

Because they have to, otherwise they would be seen as not knowing what they were doing

Footy has not changed in over 100 years, two teams endeavouring to kick a ball through sticks

All that has changed is the hoo haa around it

I have worked at the highest level in companies where culture was mentioned as an important factor, until the [censored] hit the fan and it was every man for himself, it is the same at footy clubs

I wish I had a dollar for every buzz word I have encountered in my 49 yr working career, but it might change my whole narrative

 

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13 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

 

I wish I had a dollar for every buzz word I have encountered in my 49 yr working career, but it might change my whole narrative

 

In your 49 year working career, have you worked for different companies that did things differently?

It’s a rhetorical question, unless you only worked for one organisation. Even then, the culture would have changed across 5 decades as new people run it, new people work in it, circumstances change etc. 

I can guarantee that, despite what you think, football has changed enormously over the past 100 years.

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16 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

I don't usually read your posts, but I'll answer this one

Because they have to, otherwise they would be seen as not knowing what they were doing

Footy has not changed in over 100 years, two teams endeavouring to kick a ball through sticks

All that has changed is the hoo haa around it

I have worked at the highest level in companies where culture was mentioned as an important factor, until the [censored] hit the fan and it was every man for himself, it is the same at footy clubs

I wish I had a dollar for every buzz word I have encountered in my 49 yr working career, but it might change my whole narrative

 

There you go Folks

Clown School 101

Captains are not important to Satyr

Have a Talk to Brett Kirk or Luke Hodge for starters. You might learn something.

 

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The numbers don't lie here, on AFL 360 Gerard Wheately compiled a list of the amounts of consecutive goals MFC have conceded since Goodwin has taken over the reins in 2017.

Now this points to three things;  Tactical strategy/awareness i.e too attack minded especially when the tide is against us and teams get big run ons, We don't seem the have a plan B which our coaches can relay to the on field leaders. Just seems players are at pains to reverse its effects with no mechanism to stem the flow.

Game Management  When the going gets tough there is no sense or want from players to stop the rut straight away. Instead of holding back on our attack minded thinking and reverting to a more conservative momentum killing approach which players should be drilled into doing i.e keeping possession and working it around boundary line until a stoppage , boundary throw in and throw numerous numbers around to keep ball in and kill momentum. We just continue to throw numbers off the back of the square at the contest leaving us exposed to more misery #craziness.

Mental Fitness We are mentally fragile, I think by the numbers that have been dished up by Wheately indicates we have a major problem that can't be papered over any longer. Has there been any mental training in the off season to combat these issue i.e what do we do when we are up against it, what is the talk and motivation levels like when this all takes place, is there positivity or negativity on field is their anything happening at all well it doesn't look like it.

Long and Short of it Goodwin and Co can't paper over them any longer, solutions and strategies need to be implemented NOW and theirs a thing called a Mirror and everyone at the MFC needs to start looking into it.

As to what has been served up for most of this season has been complete and utter Bull [censored]. 

20180416_211554.jpg

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

There you go Folks

Clown School 101

Captains are not important to Satyr

Have a Talk to Brett Kirk or Luke Hodge for starters. You might learn something.

Of course name calling shows your heart

 

Please, so let's pick successful teams that shows Captains are important

The other 20 odd might have had something to do with it

It is the heart and will in the individual that's important, I don't need to be led to achieve

Edited by Satyriconhome

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

In your 49 year working career, have you worked for different companies that did things differently?

It’s a rhetorical question, unless you only worked for one organisation. Even then, the culture would have changed across 5 decades as new people run it, new people work in it, circumstances change etc. 

I can guarantee that, despite what you think, football has changed enormously over the past 100 years.

Football hasn't changed, the aim of the game is stiil the same, kick ball thru sticks and stop opposition team doing same

I worked for a company that supposedly had a caring and sharing culture, we value our employees   no wait we are moving everything to India and you can all [censored] off, we will also do it in such a way the redundancy package bill in minimised

Culture my arse

Edited by Satyriconhome

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22 minutes ago, Win4theAges said:

Instead of holding back on our attack minded thinking and reverting to a more conservative momentum killing approach which players should be drilled into doing i.e keeping possession and working it around boundary line until a stoppage , boundary throw in and throw numerous numbers around to keep ball in and kill momentum.

From what I've read, the players are in fact trained to slow momentum, keep possession etc. when these runs start happening - the trouble is though, they don't (yet) have the experience to do it in the heat of the moment. You can talk and train all you want, but it takes years for the "ah, they're doing that, now we need to switch to this" to really become second nature. We started to see some of it in the North game, but the wheels really came off on the weekend. You also need players who have more than one string to their bow, which is also not yet the case.

If some of the approaches that are being discussed here were as easy to implement as some seem to think they are, every team would win the premiership every year.

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Please, so let's pick successful teams that shows Captains are important

The other 20 odd might have had something to do with it

It is the heart and will in the individual that's important, I don't need to be led to achieve

Yes successful teams have great Captains

We on the other hand are still a shambles after many years of everything supposedly being set up

Edited by Sir Why You Little

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19 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Football hasn't changed, the aim of the game is stiil the same, kick ball thru sticks and stop opposition team doing same

I worked for a company that supposedly had a caring and sharing culture, we value our employees   no wait we are moving everything to India and you can all [censored] off, we will also do it in such a way the redundancy package bill in minimised

Culture my arse

The aim is the same, but the game is different. The clothes are different, the rules are different, the athletes are different, the tactics are different, the umpiring is different, etc. It’s different.

Also, personal bitterness aside, you worked for a company whose culture was different to what they said it was or what you interpreted it as being. That doesn’t mean that culture doesn’t exist, nor that it is unimportant. 

I also assume that, given you moved to Australia in the 80s and have worked for 49 years, that you have worked in more than one workplace. Did those workplaces do things differently? Yes, of course they did. They valued different things and were made up of different people. One of them you may have enjoyed/been more productive in, despite the fact that you were largely the same person.

Strong leaders drive the culture they want to exist in the group.

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8 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Yes successful teams have great Captains

We in the other hand are still a shambles after many years of everything supposedly being set up

Successful teams have great teams, or 22 individuals who perform each week the best they can or better

Sov what's wrong with the culture at St Kilda and Carlton at the moment?

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

 

The aim is the same, but the game is different. The clothes are different, the rules are different, the athletes are different, the tactics are different, the umpiring is different, etc. It’s different.

Also, personal bitterness aside, you worked for a company whose culture was different to what they said it was or what you interpreted it as being. That doesn’t mean that culture doesn’t exist, nor that it is unimportant. 

I also assume that, given you moved to Australia in the 80s and have worked for 49 years, that you have worked in more than one workplace. Did those workplaces do things differently? Yes, of course they did. They valued different things and were made up of different people. One of them you may have enjoyed/been more productive in, despite the fact that you were largely the same person.

Strong leaders drive the culture they want to exist in the group.

All companies value one thing   profit

All Footy Clubs value one thing   premierships

Strong leaders do not exist, a leader is not a person who spouts buzz words

Goodwin is a coach who along with his assistants is trying to educate 40 odd players into playing a type of footy week in and week out that will win a premiershio, it's not about culture

 

Edited by Satyriconhome

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To answer the thread question

I have serious doubts.

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7 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

All companies value one thing   profit

All Footy Clubs value one thing   premierships

Strong leaders do not exist, a leader is not a person who spouts buzz words

I have a finite amount of time on this earth, and I spent some of that time writing my previous few posts. We must learn from our own mistakes.

“Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler” - Einstein.

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18 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Successful teams have great teams, or 22 individuals who perform each week the best they can or better

Sov what's wrong with the culture at St Kilda and Carlton at the moment?

I don’t give a dam about other sides

i want the MFC to have the best leaders in the country. 

You obviously don’t care

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17 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

, it's not about culture

 

YES IT IS

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1 hour ago, Win4theAges said:

The numbers don't lie here, on AFL 360 Gerard Wheately compiled a list of the amounts of consecutive goals MFC have conceded since Goodwin has taken over the reins in 2017.

Now this points to three things;  Tactical strategy/awareness i.e too attack minded especially when the tide is against us and teams get big run ons, We don't seem the have a plan B which our coaches can relay to the on field leaders. Just seems players are at pains to reverse its effects with no mechanism to stem the flow.

Game Management  When the going gets tough there is no sense or want from players to stop the rut straight away. Instead of holding back on our attack minded thinking and reverting to a more conservative momentum killing approach which players should be drilled into doing i.e keeping possession and working it around boundary line until a stoppage , boundary throw in and throw numerous numbers around to keep ball in and kill momentum. We just continue to throw numbers off the back of the square at the contest leaving us exposed to more misery #craziness.

Mental Fitness We are mentally fragile, I think by the numbers that have been dished up by Wheately indicates we have a major problem that can't be papered over any longer. Has there been any mental training in the off season to combat these issue i.e what do we do when we are up against it, what is the talk and motivation levels like when this all takes place, is there positivity or negativity on field is their anything happening at all well it doesn't look like it.

Long and Short of it Goodwin and Co can't paper over them any longer, solutions and strategies need to be implemented NOW and theirs a thing called a Mirror and everyone at the MFC needs to start looking into it.

As to what has been served up for most of this season has been complete and utter Bull [censored]. 

20180416_211554.jpg

"Has there been any mental training in the off season to combat these issue "

Well there was going to be a camp..:huh:

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12 hours ago, rjay said:

It didn't really work though 'Sat'...it hasn't worked this year it's just the opposition didn't take full advantage as the Hawks did.

The coach must take some responsibility but agree the players are also big boys now and need to take a good share of it.

They do seem to get well ahead of themselves for some reason and this has been going on since the Garry Lyon days.

Is it an inbred culture that's been difficult to shift??? who knows but it looks to be.

It might be clubs and teams that are starved of success get an inflated sense of achievement when the horizon seems brighter. But whatever it is, I agree. It seems to be cultural.

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4 hours ago, Win4theAges said:

The numbers don't lie here, on AFL 360 Gerard Wheately compiled a list of the amounts of consecutive goals MFC have conceded since Goodwin has taken over the reins in 2017.

Now this points to three things;  Tactical strategy/awareness i.e too attack minded especially when the tide is against us and teams get big run ons, We don't seem the have a plan B which our coaches can relay to the on field leaders. Just seems players are at pains to reverse its effects with no mechanism to stem the flow.

Game Management  When the going gets tough there is no sense or want from players to stop the rut straight away. Instead of holding back on our attack minded thinking and reverting to a more conservative momentum killing approach which players should be drilled into doing i.e keeping possession and working it around boundary line until a stoppage , boundary throw in and throw numerous numbers around to keep ball in and kill momentum. We just continue to throw numbers off the back of the square at the contest leaving us exposed to more misery #craziness.

Mental Fitness We are mentally fragile, I think by the numbers that have been dished up by Wheately indicates we have a major problem that can't be papered over any longer. Has there been any mental training in the off season to combat these issue i.e what do we do when we are up against it, what is the talk and motivation levels like when this all takes place, is there positivity or negativity on field is their anything happening at all well it doesn't look like it.

Long and Short of it Goodwin and Co can't paper over them any longer, solutions and strategies need to be implemented NOW and theirs a thing called a Mirror and everyone at the MFC needs to start looking into it.

As to what has been served up for most of this season has been complete and utter Bull [censored]. 

 

As I said on another thread - the numbers are that Goodwin has a positive win-loss record. Beezlebub will readily tell you that that the final score-board is the only thing that counts. Goody's mantra has been simple when explaining a loss or a win: we got back/needed to get back to the way we want to play. There will be no concession to the plan. Teams get run-ons against us because we lose control of the centre and contested battle. We are contested-first - win there and the footy dept will back us to win the match, as is most commonly the case. It's exactly how we've turned around those run-ons into victories.

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I may sound somewhat unhinged, but this thread has aggravated me to an unusual degree - perhaps because I feel that this reaction is a symptom of the club as a whole over the past how many goddamned years.

The rash decision to sack Bailey was a mistake at the time - we may not have got to where we hoped with his game-plan but we were building and still in the hunt for the finals when his contract was abruptly terminated. Not to bring up old wounds . . . but now we will never know.

Some tweaks were obviously required but we bailed out entirely during a rebuild that had an element of gumption and it thrust us into the dark ages of which we've never recovered and still complain. The record will show that he helped guide all of Essendon, Port and Adelaide to a flag or nearabouts through attacking innovation - light-years years ahead of the pack.

I was a lurker here during the Neeld days, and many came to his defense - but if people can't see the difference between he and Goodwin then they have rocks in their upper-extremities. Goodwin isn't stupid and he's not relying on an outdated plan - he's attempting to separate us from the increasingly congested pack. Pull the plug now and we could just about say goodbye to the club.

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3 hours ago, Skuit said:

I may sound somewhat unhinged, but this thread has aggravated me to an unusual degree - perhaps because I feel that this reaction is a symptom of the club as a whole over the past how many goddamned years.

The rash decision to sack Bailey was a mistake at the time - we may not have got to where we hoped with his game-plan but we were building and still in the hunt for the finals when his contract was abruptly terminated. Not to bring up old wounds . . . but now we will never know.

Some tweaks were obviously required but we bailed out entirely during a rebuild that had an element of gumption and it thrust us into the dark ages of which we've never recovered and still complain. The record will show that he helped guide all of Essendon, Port and Adelaide to a flag or nearabouts through attacking innovation - light-years years ahead of the pack.

I was a lurker here during the Neeld days, and many came to his defense - but if people can't see the difference between he and Goodwin then they have rocks in their upper-extremities. Goodwin isn't stupid and he's not relying on an outdated plan - he's attempting to separate us from the increasingly congested pack. Pull the plug now and we could just about say goodbye to the club.

For better or worse Skuit he will be our coach to at least the end of 2018, he is not hopeless like Neeld and he has a good management structure behind him now. 

However if we don't make eighth place this year it will be looking very grim.

 

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Posted (edited)
On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 7:05 PM, KingDingAling said:

We won't make the finals with Goodwin at the helm. You don't rest Gawn for 10 minutes and allow McKovey to take over the game - going up against an undersized James Harmes. Goodwin is the kinda coach we all would've loved when we were trying to lose games. But now we actually want to win games Goowin is the last bloke you'd want in charge. I'd sack him this week he is absolutely hopeless and has no idea. None.

The Harmes move is the worst Coaching move i have seen in many years.  We robbed ourselves of a hard player at the drop and around the contest and wasted him in a ruck contest he was never going to impact.  All momentum and confidence was then handed to the Hawks on a platter at a crucial stage with the game in the balance.

We could have used Hulk or Frosty or alternatively no one and just had extra numbers at ground level to attack and run off.

In addition we have very few around the pill who can get alot of it and use it "Ok" when they do. Getting the ball out and sending it forward quickly, yes even bombing it as we tend to.  We rarely did this on Sunday. Dont waste one of those key players in Jones In a lock down when other options were available!

Not bringing in a back up tall forward as resting ruckman was a horrid non-selection vs the Hawks.  Hogan in a crowded press forward line isnt going to impact much either.  And the high press has proven to be a fail in this regard as well as leaking joe-the-goose goals out the back as our smaller backs are too slow to cover out the back runners (Hunt the exception but not picked!).

Too many at the contest.  Too many up for the marking contests.

Not enough smalls getting front and square.

Poorly organised and no run off HB.

Cant hit targets coming inside 50 or around the ground for more than about one quarter.

The list goes on.

Willing to give him till mid season but if there's no significant change / improvement we need to make a move on Goody, Macca and others....and quickly!

Jury's out till then for me with little confidence.

Edited by Rusty Nails
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7 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Football hasn't changed, the aim of the game is stiil the same, kick ball thru sticks and stop opposition team doing same

I worked for a company that supposedly had a caring and sharing culture, we value our employees   no wait we are moving everything to India and you can all [censored] off, we will also do it in such a way the redundancy package bill in minimised

Culture my arse

 

7 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Successful teams have great teams, or 22 individuals who perform each week the best they can or better

Sov what's wrong with the culture at St Kilda and Carlton at the moment?

 

7 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

All companies value one thing   profit

All Footy Clubs value one thing   premierships

Strong leaders do not exist, a leader is not a person who spouts buzz words

Goodwin is a coach who along with his assistants is trying to educate 40 odd players into playing a type of footy week in and week out that will win a premiershio, it's not about culture

 

I can understand your scepticism about culture. These words like culture are thrown around a lot without thought.

However, your first example about the company is more a motherhood statement in the guise of mission statement or business value statement.  No one believes that stuff, it's a total croc. But if you looked at the underlying culture of the organisation then it would probably be no surprise they shafted the staff.

Culture is a bit elusive, I'm not sure how it could be described but there is something consistent within an organisation that seems hard to change. It's within the history & fabric that seems ongoing. Maybe it is all BS & it's simply getting the right people & making the right decisions.

It could be the politics within the organisation compounding previous bad decisions & actions.

St Kilda & Carlton both have issues that could be ascribed to the culture word.

We certainly have an ongoing issue. Do we get ahead of ourselves? are we simply not good enough? are the coach & FD not up to the mark? or could it be culture?

The Lyon led sides were renowned for getting ahead of themselves. Is this side carrying on that legacy? I sure hope Garry wasn't on his high horse about the performance (haven't watched the footy shows).

Whether we call it culture or not our history over the last 50+ years is not great.

I felt comfortable that performances like Sunday were behind us, maybe the players felt a bit too comfortable as well.

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