"Lapse or Lethal Dees"

[markc 975]

2 hours ago, Jaded said:

Tell us something we don’t know King

just about to type the same thing LOL

[In Harmes Way 7,477]

1 hour ago, daisycutter said:

he didn't notice jeelong only got 17 points in the last half against us? talk about being blind

But it isn’t concerning dc (at least not to me)

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

1 hour ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Either/or. It doesn’t bother me. A 4 goal run and a 5.3 quarter against a bottom dwelling side is worrying. 

The trend continues. Whilst we’re scraping by with wins, the way in which we’re playing isn’t going to knock any half decent side off.

We need to lift our performance significantly if we’re going to beat Hawthorn.

So you have travelled to the future and seen both games

Or are you hoping we lose to prove you right

Every player and coach I speak to says the same thing, we are getting there but in no way are we the finished article

We obviously have learnt from the first two games, steadied and weren't headed for 3 qtrs, but the lapses are still there

I expect us to fall over in games and not be able to get back up, but that's footy these days, but as long as we learn from the games I can handle it

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

2 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

They kicked 5.3 in the first quarter and the first 4 un-answered.

So it was close to a six goal run in a quarter.

You are dodging the real issue though. Which you did earlier in the year and so do many other supporters on here.

The next two games are going to be a massive slap in the face for many on here who only choose to look at positives in our game. 

Hawthorn and Richmond will punish us if we have any sort of lapse. Absolutely punish us.

Agreed.

Plus I don't think either of those team will gift us the frees North did within our forward 50. Goldstien's high tackle and McDonald's gift pass to Garlett come to mind. There were more but those are the ones I could remember off the top of my head.

Both of those teams can hit targets. North can't. Neither of those team have Majak Daw holding down a backline spot. Apart from the first quarter he was a complete liability for North. He couldn't outmark Petracca 1-on-1 despite the significant size difference. Massive spud.

[John Crow Batty 8,217]

Though quite a few players are not at optimal form, they seem to fit into the team ethos that is desirable and was missing for a long time. A lot of players could be better but are doing their bit.  I don’t miss the days when too many players seemed to get up just before contract signing day and then backslide with a fist full of dollars in their grasp. Perhaps this is why there are only Jones and Jetta remaining from the dark early Bailey years.  Who misses the likes of Dunn, Watts, Howe, Frawley, Bleese et al?

Edited April 9, 2018 by america de cali

[dl4e 5,578]

3 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

They kicked 5.3 in the first quarter and the first 4 un-answered.

So it was close to a six goal run in a quarter.

You are dodging the real issue though. Which you did earlier in the year and so do many other supporters on here.

The next two games are going to be a massive slap in the face for many on here who only choose to look at positives in our game. 

Hawthorn and Richmond will punish us if we have any sort of lapse. Absolutely punish us.

Spot on. Richmond more so than Hawthorn as they can lapse as well. 

[Demon3 2,541]

Still think TMac loss is hurting us badly. He leads up at the ball, creates space in the F50. Our entries are very ordinary. We are winning enough ball, we get it in there enough, NO 1 in comp i think, and while it seems we do score, i think it can be a lot better.

 

 

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 5,786]

16 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

Still think TMac loss is hurting us badly. He leads up at the ball, creates space in the F50. Our entries are very ordinary. We are winning enough ball, we get it in there enough, NO 1 in comp i think, and while it seems we do score, i think it can be a lot better.

 

 

some of the entries into 50 are mindless, just blazing away to 1 on 3 out numbered situations, this has not improved in the first 3 games of the year imagine the carnage when we fix this part of our game.?????

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

1 hour ago, Satyriconhome said:

So you have travelled to the future and seen both games

Or are you hoping we lose to prove you right

Every player and coach I speak to says the same thing, we are getting there but in no way are we the finished article

We obviously have learnt from the first two games, steadied and weren't headed for 3 qtrs, but the lapses are still there

I expect us to fall over in games and not be able to get back up, but that's footy these days, but as long as we learn from the games I can handle it

Thanks again for toeing the party line.

You're sharing absolutely nothing new like always, I don't know why you even bother responding. It's seriously pointless.

I'm a supporter who hasn't seen any real significant improvement in the way we're playing since last year. We've come up against two very ordinary and young (Brisbane) sides and have managed to get over the the line thanks to our superior talent. We played an undermanned Geelong who we should have beaten. You'd expect we'd have won that given our end to last year and the 'burn' the club had spoken about all pre-season. But we didn't.

I'm completely aware that the season is a marathon. And we've got two wins on the board out of three which is 'positive' obviously, most on here keep telling me.

We clearly haven't 'learnt' about lapses during games despite what you've said. Because they have happened every game this year and it happened many times last year. My prediction is that if we play the way we have been in the first three rounds, we won't be beating Hawthorn or Richmond. Because one quarter of bad football against them and we'll be punished hard.

If we play four quarters of 'Melbourne' football, we'll win. But I've barely seen an entire quarter of that yet. We have way too many players underperforming atm.

Edited April 9, 2018 by stevethemanjordan

[Gator 16,888]

While I left the ground having had a bit of a reality check, I'm confident we'll be playing better footy in 5-6 weeks.

No teams are playing their best right now.  None.

Geelong, Port, Sydney, West Coast, GWS have all had "lapses".

If we hadn't had a single lapse it would have been pretty extraordinary.

The lapses aren't a massive issue for me, as I'm confident they'll go or be diminished when we're playing better footy.  It's more our defensive structures and ball movement that I'm  concerned about.

I'll let Steve worry about the odd "lapse".

[Dr. Gonzo 22,390]

5 hours ago, praha said:

Every team gives up runs, but our problem is that it's either at the start of a game, or after we've establish a big lead. If we kick the first 3, and the opposition kicks the next 6, we're only down by 3 goals. No one bats an eyelid.

If the opposition kicks the first 4-6, it's newsworthy. Or if you're up by 6 goals and have 6 straight kicked on you, it's a problem.

I think that in the modern game, anything under 5 goals is a nothing lead. Atm I don't think it's a major issue. But if we certainly need to lool at closing that gap.

So being up by 3 goals then having 6 kicked against you is worse than being up by 6 goals and having 6 kicked against you? 

[Dr. Gonzo 22,390]

4 hours ago, S_T said:

I'm ok where we're at but there is still a lot of room for improvement, especially with scoring efficiency.

I heard today that an article in one of the papers over the weekend likened MFC to a P-plater behind the wheel of a big V8.  A lot of power in the hands of the relatively young.  Once the power is harnessed and focused we will be a consistent force, but until then, we're also prone to running of the road into a ditch.

Haha very good analogy, that's how I feel watching this side at the moment. The commentators talked about Melbourne being a good side when we're going at about 3/4 pace, too frenetic and we look sloppy, not frenetic enough and it falls apart. You could also say we are missing a bit of focus or composure to our attack at the moment, something I think Viney would help immensely.

We seem to be going quite well but there is something intangible that means we look slightly off, the flow isn't there yet. But when it comes and I think it will at some point soon, it will click and we will look very slick.

[Engorged Onion 9,215]

3 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Thanks again for toeing the party line.

You're sharing absolutely nothing new like always, I don't know why you even bother responding. It's seriously pointless.

I'm a supporter who hasn't seen any real significant improvement in the way we're playing since last year. We've come up against two very ordinary and young (Brisbane) sides and have managed to get over the the line thanks to our superior talent. We played an undermanned Geelong who we should have beaten. You'd expect we'd have won that given our end to last year and the 'burn' the club had spoken about all pre-season. But we didn't.

I'm completely aware that the season is a marathon. And we've got two wins on the board out of three which is 'positive' obviously, most on here keep telling me.

We clearly haven't 'learnt' about lapses during games despite what you've said. Because they have happened every game this year and it happened many times last year. My prediction is that if we play the way we have been in the first three rounds, we won't be beating Hawthorn or Richmond. Because one quarter of bad football against them and we'll be punished hard.

If we play four quarters of 'Melbourne' football, we'll win. But I've barely seen an entire quarter of that yet. We have way too many players underperforming atm.

Steve... all teams lapse, throughout each game.  

For me, its like arguing that you shouldnt have fatigue - its a part of the game...andwe treat it as normal, but lapses *ahem* should be problematic and a sign of a weak team, I really disagree strongly on this point.  The competition has evolved so much, that all teams will get run on's somewhere, in a game.  It'll be a rare day that a team doesn't get more than 2 goals in a row against the opposition.

Just looked at rnd 3- (and cannot be shagged looking at the others) to support my evidence

Collingwood 'lapsed and gave the first 3 goals up - then Carlton 'lapsed' completely for the rest of the game

Brisbane and Power - 3 a piece

Gold Coast 4 - Freo 3

North - 4  -Melb 4

GWS - 7 Sydney - 3

Adelaide - 2 - St Kilda 5

Hawthorn 4 - Richmond 3

Essendon 5 - WB 3

Geelong - 6 - WCE - 6

I think @Skuit has a good post happening re: sheer weight of numbers of entries into 50's and where we sit with that, to make sense of it. I would assume (and know for certain at another club, that they expect a team to kick multiple goals)- that Goodwin and the FD factor this in, hence the game plan that @skuit has alluding to in his stats thread... 

Personally, I have challenged my own expectation since - coaching panels factor this likely occurrence into their planning, and its made my experience as a support less disheartening and less frustrating.

In a more succinct way... we are not a [censored] team if we get multiple goals kicked against us - however we are, if it happens multiple times. 

 

Edited April 9, 2018 by Danelska

[Deestroy All 14,261]

There’s still momentum in sport?

I’m shocked. 

[BAMF 3,783]

 Lapses are a problem. We had large periods all last year and it didn't look good against the Lions lastly week, but can you call the 4 goals vs North a lapse?

17:29. They kick the first from a questionable free kick. Momentum was 50/50 at the time.

14:40. Second goal. They are starting to get a run with repeat inside entries.

12:37. They get the third. They are all over us. Time to get worried. Our kicking efficiency is at about 55%

11:01. They got their forth from a shocking mistake by Frost. Really worrying now. If they keep going like this we will be stuffed.

10:08 Bugg puts through our first.

9:09 Kent kicks our second.

I don't give a [censored] about the first goal. They were pushing us pretty hard but we were still giving it back and going ok. After the second, I was starting to get worried. 4 minutes later they have 2 more. Not looking good. 

Within 2 minutes we have 2 goals on the board. Momentum is 50/50 for the rest of the quarter.

So yeah. We couldn't stem the tide for 4 minutes and conseded 2 goals which we instantly got back. Call it a lapse if you want.I won't be. I also won't be getting worried about a 'what if' like what if we lapse against the Hawks. If we do I will be [censored] off.

Until then I'm going to enjoy the win.

 

[hells bells 2,022]

3 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Thanks again for toeing the party line.

You're sharing absolutely nothing new like always, I don't know why you even bother responding. It's seriously pointless.

I'm a supporter who hasn't seen any real significant improvement in the way we're playing since last year. We've come up against two very ordinary and young (Brisbane) sides and have managed to get over the the line thanks to our superior talent. We played an undermanned Geelong who we should have beaten. You'd expect we'd have won that given our end to last year and the 'burn' the club had spoken about all pre-season. But we didn't.

I'm completely aware that the season is a marathon. And we've got two wins on the board out of three which is 'positive' obviously, most on here keep telling me.

We clearly haven't 'learnt' about lapses during games despite what you've said. Because they have happened every game this year and it happened many times last year. My prediction is that if we play the way we have been in the first three rounds, we won't be beating Hawthorn or Richmond. Because one quarter of bad football against them and we'll be punished hard.

If we play four quarters of 'Melbourne' football, we'll win. But I've barely seen an entire quarter of that yet. We have way too many players underperforming atm.

We’ve done our own damage too STMJ.  

Both the Tigers and Hawks have had runs against them in the first two Rounds.

I agree the next two games will be a step up, but in the past 12 months, bar some bad luck, we’ve performed strongly in “big” games.

Maybe I’m an optimist, but I think we’re going OK, we aren’t running on all 8 cylinders yet but I think we’re building.  

I’d prefer we’re playing our best footy in August -> September as opposed to April.

[Nasher 33,047]

Has anyone complaining about lapses actually watched any footy other than Melbourne games this year? Just curious because I've seen a few and haven't seen a single game where teams didn't have fits and spurts. 

[Deestroy All 14,261]

4 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Has anyone complaining about lapses actually watched any footy other than Melbourne games this year? Just curious because I've seen a few and haven't seen a single game where teams didn't have fits and spurts. 

Exactly. 

Not to mention the overall standard of footy this year across most games hasn’t been great. 

There’s been momentum swings in most games.

Our defence has been all out whack. Better in the 2nd half on Saturday. 

Yes the Hawks and Richmond could punish us if we have lapses. Just like we’ll punish them if they have lapses, like they have had. It’s usually what happens in every sport.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,390]

33 minutes ago, Deestroy All said:

Exactly. 

Not to mention the overall standard of footy this year across most games hasn’t been great. 

There’s been momentum swings in most games.

Our defence has been all out whack. Better in the 2nd half on Saturday. 

Yes the Hawks and Richmond could punish us if we have lapses. Just like we’ll punish them if they have lapses, like they have had. It’s usually what happens in every sport.

Hawthorn and Richmond are two interesting matchups for us because they each possess a strength that we don't - Hawks superior kicking skills, Richmond superior pace. But the advantage we hold over them is winning the footy. 

I'm interested to see how we go in these two games, I'm kind of expecting Hawthorn to be out to make a point after Sunday and they will make us pay with errant inside 50s. If we lose this I won't be too shattered as long as we best Richmond the following week. Lose both and I'll be upset but I think we match up well with Richmond. We really should have beaten them last year and we didn't have Gawn or Hogan who are both in ripping form. I also think their speed will be less of a factor against our contested footy although their backline does shape up well

All in all I'm enjoying the ride this season, it's a very even competition there's not many teams who will suffer drubbings like we did in the Neeld days. Beating any team by 5 goals is a good outcome. 

[titan_uranus 22,210]

9 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

They kicked 5.3 in the first quarter and the first 4 un-answered.

So it was close to a six goal run in a quarter.

You are dodging the real issue though. Which you did earlier in the year and so do many other supporters on here.

The next two games are going to be a massive slap in the face for many on here who only choose to look at positives in our game. 

Hawthorn and Richmond will punish us if we have any sort of lapse. Absolutely punish us.

Geelong punished our lapse in Round 1 and we lost by a kick.

Let's not get too carried away here. Yes, we have lapses. We lose too many quarters by big margins, and indeed we've already lost one game this year because of it.

But the North first quarter wasn't anything like the Geelong second quarter, it's just not a good example of the point you're trying to make. And we're clearly capable of righting the ship, possibly more so than last year: we fought back against Geelong after that second quarter, Brisbane levelled with us but we won by 5 goals, North started with 4 goals and we won by 6.

[Deestroy All 14,261]

27 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Hawthorn and Richmond are two interesting matchups for us because they each possess a strength that we don't - Hawks superior kicking skills, Richmond superior pace. But the advantage we hold over them is winning the footy. 

I'm interested to see how we go in these two games, I'm kind of expecting Hawthorn to be out to make a point after Sunday and they will make us pay with errant inside 50s. If we lose this I won't be too shattered as long as we best Richmond the following week. Lose both and I'll be upset but I think we match up well with Richmond. We really should have beaten them last year and we didn't have Gawn or Hogan who are both in ripping form. I also think their speed will be less of a factor against our contested footy although their backline does shape up well

All in all I'm enjoying the ride this season, it's a very even competition there's not many teams who will suffer drubbings like we did in the Neeld days. Beating any team by 5 goals is a good outcome. 

I’m more worried about the Hawks. I’m hoping we learnt from the Geelong game. The Hawks would’ve seen how easily Geelong chipped the ball short through our zone when they controlled the game. Hawthorn are well equipped to do the same. I hope we’re ready to shut that down. 

Adelaide are no quicker than us and they dealt with Richmond easily. I think Richmond find us a difficult match up. Can’t wait for that game. 

[Deestroy All 14,261]

Also 2 of the first 4 goals shouldn’t have happened. Salem’s tackle was fine, shouldn’t have been a free. And Lever was elbowed in the head, didn’t know blocking with your face was a thing. 

[Binmans PA 25,885]

10 hours ago, Deestroy All said:

I’m more worried about the Hawks. I’m hoping we learnt from the Geelong game. The Hawks would’ve seen how easily Geelong chipped the ball short through our zone when they controlled the game. Hawthorn are well equipped to do the same. I hope we’re ready to shut that down. 

This is the big one for me too, DA. This was the main reason for my mind that the Geelong game was close at all. Had we locked down this chipping out of our offensive zone early on, I believe we would have won comfortably. But we let it happen.

We set our zone deeper, almost to encourage the opposition to empty their defence, so that our next entry wouldn't be to a crowded forward line.

This is very much a soccer/football tactic. Press in the middle and across half forward, but not at the goal line.

I don't think we can afford to play this way with Hawthorn's foot skills and pacey smalls. Their ball movement will be too slick for this.

[Binmans PA 25,885]

9 hours ago, Deestroy All said:

Also 2 of the first 4 goals shouldn’t have happened. Salem’s tackle was fine, shouldn’t have been a free. And Lever was elbowed in the head, didn’t know blocking with your face was a thing. 

Lever took his eyes off the ball before he got the elbow in the face. That free kick was there for mine.

[Guest]

I reserve judgement on anything King says.

He was the first one to say Neeld was a mistake and was roundly clobbered by all on here (me included).

Who turned out to be right there?