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Clint Bizkit

Changes v Brisbane

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5 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

I reckon he is off form given tenderness in the ribs; his game was ordinary and no defensive pressure of note was applied. He seemed uncomfortable with his breathing and avoided contact after 'a run' or two. He is a talent who possibly could be rested.

hmmn, interesting. 

Maybe those old 'spots' are still there,  but 'Grecian 2000'd' over.

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6 hours ago, KingDingAling said:

Hannan is a serious player. Talented, versatile and has upside. Very impressed with him. He will improve from week 1.

Goes missing a lot. I knew he would miss the set shot for goal.

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1 hour ago, samcantstandya said:

Goes missing a lot. I knew he would miss the set shot for goal.

1 season in AFL, he is, in AFL terms, a beginner.  Just as a young guns are.  

They will develop.  Given the chance and the direction.

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8 hours ago, KingDingAling said:

Hannan is a serious player. Talented, versatile and has upside. Very impressed with him. He will improve from week 1.

He needs to show he can get the ball more than half a dozen times a game though. 

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8 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

He needs to show he can get the ball more than half a dozen times a game though. 

You mean by averaging 12.4 possessions a game across his debut season? Why do you need to exaggerate? Small/medium forwards don't need to get a heap of the pill. His primary role is to apply defensive pressure. His secondary role is to kick a goal or two. He did both of these things very well in 2017. If the footy dept decide he didn't fulfil his primary role against Geelong then he might be omitted but last year his pressure acts, speed and tackling were impressive.

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Posted (edited)

Put money on it:

tyson and bugg for hannan and maynard.

A few others on notice, particularly garlett.

I personally want brayshaw and frost in the team too.

I would drop one of lewis or vince as i think we have too many slower/ older types, especially if we bring in tyson and have jones too.

I would also drop wagner for frost, but i do think wagners second half last week was the best he has played in a game for us.

Edited by Yokozuna
error
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5 minutes ago, Yokozuna said:

Put money on it:

tyson and bugg for hannan and maynard.

A few others on notice, particularly garlett.

I personally want brayshaw and frost in the team too.

I would drop one of lewis or vince as i think we have too many slower/ older types, especially if we bring in tyson and have jones too.

I would also drop wagner for frost, but i do think wagners second half last week was the best he has played in a game for us.

Yep, I get a feeling Tyson and Bugg will be in for Maynard and Hannan.

I doubt Brayshaw will get a call up, but I'd like him in the team.

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4 hours ago, Goodvibes said:

You mean by averaging 12.4 possessions a game across his debut season? Why do you need to exaggerate? Small/medium forwards don't need to get a heap of the pill. His primary role is to apply defensive pressure. His secondary role is to kick a goal or two. He did both of these things very well in 2017. If the footy dept decide he didn't fulfil his primary role against Geelong then he might be omitted but last year his pressure acts, speed and tackling were impressive.

He picks and chooses when 2 put in.

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21 hours ago, binman said:

Didn't see this when i posted something very similar.

The other interesting question is why goody didnt put lever on hawkins to combat the use of hawkins up the ground to isolate lever. My guess is because that is actually the mismatch they wanted and goody didnt. 

The instructions should have been to let Hawkins wander up the ground and get cheap kicks but keep our defensive 'shape' intact.

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19 hours ago, tappysquads said:

Kept Geelong to 17 points in a half

Maynard -> Tyson

Wagner -> Frost

Let Geelong kick 80  points in a half.

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7 minutes ago, samcantstandya said:

He picks and chooses when 2 put in.

Interesting. Have others noted obvious examples of fluctuating effort levels? When you play the role he plays, you're going to have quiet quarters and quiet halves. But you've obviously seen him give up on chases and fail to repeatedly present to the ball carrier?

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2 minutes ago, Goodvibes said:

Interesting. Have others noted obvious examples of fluctuating effort levels? When you play the role he plays, you're going to have quiet quarters and quiet halves. But you've obviously seen him give up on chases and fail to repeatedly present to the ball carrier?

1 tackle for an entire game for someone playing a defensive forward role is poor. He was second worst in the team for tackles on the weekend. He spent a lot of time jogging around confused in no mans land when we had the ball, and not putting in effort to chase properly, instead just providing a token jogging chase when we didn’t. He had 2 disposals for the first 2.5 quarters of footy. His game was unarguably poor and he deserves to be dropped.

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1 minute ago, Lord Travis said:

1 tackle for an entire game for someone playing a defensive forward role is poor. He was second worst in the team for tackles on the weekend. He spent a lot of time jogging around confused in no mans land when we had the ball, and not putting in effort to chase properly, instead just providing a token jogging chase when we didn’t. He had 2 disposals for the first 2.5 quarters of footy. His game was unarguably poor and he deserves to be dropped.

Is this a concern people had last year.? I'm obviously stuck watching a tv screen most of the time but will watch with interest this weekend at the Gabba. I'm hoping last week was just a bad day. Like ProDee I get the feeling he'll be left out but hope to see him action. I like the cut of his jib. And also see no reason why he and Fritsch can't play in the same team.

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36 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

1 tackle for an entire game for someone playing a defensive forward role is poor. He was second worst in the team for tackles on the weekend. He spent a lot of time jogging around confused in no mans land when we had the ball, and not putting in effort to chase properly, instead just providing a token jogging chase when we didn’t. He had 2 disposals for the first 2.5 quarters of footy. His game was unarguably poor and he deserves to be dropped.

The Hannan debate is an interesting one. like you I feel that with Fritsch and Garlett we have 1 to many small forwards and could afford to replace 1 with a mid. All 3 of these guys hit the scoreboard and had moments of influence against Geelong. All 3 of them also went missing for long periods of time. To a degree that is the nature of the small forward position. At times it can be tricky to find the right spot to run to. I agree that Hannan had a poor game. I do not understand though why supporters question players effort. All of these guys were putting in all the time. Sometimes though effort does not equate to high performance.

I'd drop 1 of Hannan or Fritsch, along with Maynard and possibly Wagner. Although I really liked his 2nd half I think we may be better off with an extra tall.

In would be Tyson, Bugg / brayshaw and Frost. although if they stick with Wagner over Frost I can see how that makes sense. The defense was pretty solid in the last half of footy they played together.

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14 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

He needs to show he can get the ball more than half a dozen times a game though. 

He won't be able to prove that point, down in the VFL.

 

6 hours ago, Goodvibes said:

You mean by averaging 12.4 possessions a game across his debut season? Why do you need to exaggerate? Small/medium forwards don't need to get a heap of the pill. His primary role is to apply defensive pressure. His secondary role is to kick a goal or two. He did both of these things very well in 2017. If the footy dept decide he didn't fulfil his primary role against Geelong then he might be omitted but last year his pressure acts, speed and tackling were impressive.

Not bad numbers from a half-forward.  If he rotated thru the mids and half forward, he would get more opportunity to gather stats.

 

1 hour ago, Goodvibes said:

Interesting. Have others noted obvious examples of fluctuating effort levels? When you play the role he plays, you're going to have quiet quarters and quiet halves. But you've obviously seen him give up on chases and fail to repeatedly present to the ball carrier?

No that half-forward has left this building. :)

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1 hour ago, Lord Travis said:

1 tackle for an entire game for someone playing a defensive forward role is poor. He was second worst in the team for tackles on the weekend. He spent a lot of time jogging around confused in no mans land when we had the ball, and not putting in effort to chase properly, instead just providing a token jogging chase when we didn’t. He had 2 disposals for the first 2.5 quarters of footy. His game was unarguably poor and he deserves to be dropped.

Do you think some of our players after becoming 2017 regulars, are having a 'success-hangover' from last year?  bathwater an' all LT ?

 

27 minutes ago, HardBallGet said:

The Hannan debate is an interesting one. like you I feel that with Fritsch and Garlett we have 1 to many small forwards and could afford to replace 1 with a mid. All 3 of these guys hit the scoreboard and had moments of influence against Geelong. All 3 of them also went missing for long periods of time. To a degree that is the nature of the small forward position. At times it can be tricky to find the right spot to run to. I agree that Hannan had a poor game. I do not understand though why supporters question players effort. All of these guys were putting in all the time. Sometimes though effort does not equate to high performance.

I'd drop 1 of Hannan or Fritsch, along with Maynard and possibly Wagner. Although I really liked his 2nd half I think we may be better off with an extra tall.

In would be Tyson, Bugg / brayshaw and Frost. although if they stick with Wagner over Frost I can see how that makes sense. The defense was pretty solid in the last half of footy they played together.

Well if this is the case, and maybe there is some hangover Re Hannan,,, and with (el Gato) Fritsch ;) a newbie in the team, the extra game would do Fritsch the world of good.

If the coaches think Hannan is hungover; then maybe he'll cop an early wake-up call.?  Can't see Garlett being left out, at this stage.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Goodvibes said:

You mean by averaging 12.4 possessions a game across his debut season? Why do you need to exaggerate? Small/medium forwards don't need to get a heap of the pill. His primary role is to apply defensive pressure. His secondary role is to kick a goal or two. He did both of these things very well in 2017. If the footy dept decide he didn't fulfil his primary role against Geelong then he might be omitted but last year his pressure acts, speed and tackling were impressive.

Yeah you're right, I was going off his stats last week and the feeling that he goes in and out of games. Averaging 12.4 possessions isn't great but it's not diabolical - of course as an average that means there would've been a handful of games where he only got 6-8 touches.

Edit - just looking at his stats across his 21 game career he's had 8 games with 10 or fewer disposals. Again not diabolical but not great, if he doesn't get the touches he needs to be applying the pressure which I felt was missing last week. He'll probably get another go but it wouldn't surprise me if he was dropped for Bugg. I like Bugg and what he brings to the side even if his goalkicking does let him down too often.

Edited by Dr. Gonzo
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I agree with others that we had way to many small/medium forwards: Melksham, Fritsch, Garlett and Hannan. You could also count ANB and Harmes who run through the midfield but spend what looks like most of their time across half forward

I thought Hannan was way down on the intensity he showed most of last season. He bobbed up in the second half with a few timely goals which is obviously his role as a small forward but I thought he was one of a few forwards that let Geeling rebound the ball far too easily with non pressured kicks to set up their corridor attack. It certainly didn't help when he was one of the only marking options in our forward fifty being surrounded by 2-3 Geelong players every time.

For me its:

In: Brayshaw, Tyson, Bugg, Frost

Out: Wagner, Maynard, Hannan and one more. Would like it to be Melksham but Goody loves him and he did have a great preseason.

Besides Melksham I thought the other major under performer was Salem. I think he only needs 15-20 touches to be effective with his kicking ability but his positioning on the weekend was terrible. Will get another chance this weekend but must lift.

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1 hour ago, DV8 said:

Not bad numbers from a half-forward.  If he rotated thru the mids and half forward, he would get more opportunity to gather stats.

He has been rotating through the middle, maybe not a large percentage but he does get a run in there.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, mongrel said:

I agree with others that we had way to many small/medium forwards: Melksham, Fritsch, Garlett and Hannan. You could also count ANB and Harmes who run through the midfield but spend what looks like most of their time across half forward

I thought Hannan was way down on the intensity he showed most of last season. He bobbed up in the second half with a few timely goals which is obviously his role as a small forward but I thought he was one of a few forwards that let Geeling rebound the ball far too easily with non pressured kicks to set up their corridor attack. It certainly didn't help when he was one of the only marking options in our forward fifty being surrounded by 2-3 Geelong players every time.

For me its:

In: Brayshaw, Tyson, Bugg, Frost

Out: Wagner, Maynard, Hannan and one more. Would like it to be Melksham but Goody loves him and he did have a great preseason.

Besides Melksham I thought the other major under performer was Salem. I think he only needs 15-20 touches to be effective with his kicking ability but his positioning on the weekend was terrible. Will get another chance this weekend but must lift.

I don't have a problem with the balance of the side but those guys need to apply pressure, tackles and retain the ball in our forward half. Last week they didn't and when you have 3 or 4 guys doing that it hurts the side. Garlett wasn't great last week either, had an almost identical game to Hannan but has more runs on the board.

Their positioning in marking contests was terrible too, looking for the low percentage pack mark or hanging out the back looking for cheapies instead of being front and centre and looking to apply pressure on the Cats rebounding defenders.

Edited by Dr. Gonzo

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don't have a problem with the balance of the side but those guys need to apply pressure, tackles and retain the ball in our forward half. Last week they didn't and when you have 3 or 4 guys doing that it hurts the side. Garlett wasn't great last week either, had an almost identical game to Hannan but has more runs on the board.

It's a tough one because Garlett plays a lot deeper where Hannan leads up to provide marking contests across half forward. For that reason they might give him another go. But he will have to work a lot harder pressure wise because I watched him trail off after missed marks/leads and fail to put pressure back on the opposition. Of course that goes for all our forwards especially if we're going to stay relatively small while T-Mac is out.

Edited by mongrel

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7 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don't have a problem with the balance of the side but those guys need to apply pressure, tackles and retain the ball in our forward half. Last week they didn't and when you have 3 or 4 guys doing that it hurts the side. Garlett wasn't great last week either, had an almost identical game to Hannan but has more runs on the board.

Their positioning in marking contests was terrible too, looking for the low percentage pack mark or hanging out the back looking for cheapies instead of being front and centre and looking to apply pressure on the Cats rebounding defenders.

The centre bounce drill would involve the rucks tapping the ball down to the mids and then a pass on to the forwards. A lot of the forwards ran under the ball, 

Just marrying up a couple of themes from what has been observed by those who attend training and the GFC match. 

Don't know what to make of the data (anecdotal evidence) but I'm sure someone can find a way to slate the coaching staff...

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5 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

He has been rotating through the middle, maybe not a large percentage but he does get a run in there.

I'm glad to hear that, I think he will become a very slippery player around that part of the ground for us.

I didn't get to see the game, listening on radio on the drive home.  Which was interrupted with a bad Arial, and having to constantly search for new channels, to tune in.

I can't really fault the selection, as we have limited avenues at the moment.

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