Compulsory Helmets

[DeezNuts 624]

Actually, this isn’t strictly correct either. There’s a difference between the transfer of kinetic energy and impulse forces, that’s why airbags (non-Takata) work.

[DEE fence 4,448]

Doesn't reducing concussion involve two parts? Reducing the transfer of energy to the head and also allowing the head to decelrate at a slower tempo? I can see a helmet doing the first - the second seems a tougher ask. I went and googled what the latest tech is and wasn't particularly impressed with the NFL helmets. Basically the helmets have to (i think) suffer significant deformation to achieve more gentle (relatively) deceleration. Soft helmets seem the way to go. 

[Gorgoroth 12,308]

1 hour ago, DaisyDeeciple said:

Doesn't reducing concussion involve two parts? Reducing the transfer of energy to the head and also allowing the head to decelrate at a slower tempo? I can see a helmet doing the first - the second seems a tougher ask. I went and googled what the latest tech is and wasn't particularly impressed with the NFL helmets. Basically the helmets have to (i think) suffer significant deformation to achieve more gentle (relatively) deceleration. Soft helmets seem the way to go. 

Soft helmets like the ones Gus wear do not stop or reduce much if at all of the whipping movement of the had and neck. Deformation of the outer shell is like a crumplezone on your car that spreads the force. 

I do remember reading they are trialling a soft helmet that does exactly that, but not sure where they are with it.

[daisycutter 28,485]

no helmet will ever totally prevent concussion

but surely that is not the question

hard helmets (a'la nfl) would totally change the nature of the game so lets forget that option

the most we could expect from soft helmets is a REDUCTION in the risk and/or severity of concussion and some new soft helmet technologies coming on the market look promising in at least providing some hope they might reduce the severity of concussions in some cases

zero concussions is not a realistic option in a fast contact sport

Edited March 1, 2018 by daisycutter

[ManDee 7,076]

17 hours ago, Gorgoroth said:

No helmet can prevent concussions. There's no way to keep the brain from moving inside the skull. If you hit your head hard enough, your brain can bang into the hard bone and cause a concussion. Some "special" sports helmets and other new products claim that they can protect you from concussions.

 

google would have informed blighty that his view isn’t correct before his mouth made him look like a rats tossbag

Bullet proof vests do not prevent gun deaths, seat beats do not prevent car accident deaths, safety boots do not prevent foot injuries, but they can help. 

[drdrake 3,037]

If there is conclusive evidence helmets will reduce concussion the AFL will have no choice but to introduce.  On the NFL, take helmets out of the game and players will learn not to tackle head first.  That is the current issues with Helmets, they give you false confidence that by wearing one you are protected and you don't learn how to protect your head.

I was involved in this discussion a junior level, should leagues make helmets compulsory for juniors, I believe a couple of leagues may have and I know some clubs have made it compulsory for certain younger age groups.  Not a big fan, but if it reduces concussion and someone can show this is the case I'm all for player safety at any level.

[Demon trucker 1,743]

1 hour ago, drdrake said:

If there is conclusive evidence helmets will reduce concussion the AFL will have no choice but to introduce.  On the NFL, take helmets out of the game and players will learn not to tackle head first.  That is the current issues with Helmets, they give you false confidence that by wearing one you are protected and you don't learn how to protect your head.

I was involved in this discussion a junior level, should leagues make helmets compulsory for juniors, I believe a couple of leagues may have and I know some clubs have made it compulsory for certain younger age groups.  Not a big fan, but if it reduces concussion and someone can show this is the case I'm all for player safety at any level.

I played cricket for 15 years the only time I got hit in the head was wearing a helmet, 99 time out of 100  when a Batsman gets hit on the head is when they take their eye of the ball, I never took my eye of the ball when not wearing a helmet. Player like the selwoods are bad for the game, young kids see that ducking wins you more free kicks and Copy them.

[sue 8,418]

21 hours ago, Gorgoroth said:

No helmet can prevent concussions. There's no way to keep the brain from moving inside the skull. If you hit your head hard enough, your brain can bang into the hard bone and cause a concussion. Some "special" sports helmets and other new products claim that they can protect you from concussions.

 

google would have informed blighty that his view isn’t correct before his mouth made him look like a rats tossbag

The above is true, but too pessimistic.  Some way of decreasing the deceleration of the head when it hits something is obviously needed.  If you run into a brick wall covered with a layer of rubber the head has to stop in a very small distance (and time) and therefore there is a high deceleration.  So how can you increase that distance? 

A large ball,  1 metre in diameter, made up of polystyrene balls on each player's head will clearly achieve the result (as well as making the  game unplayable).  Something between that and something sensible, probably requiring new materials, is very likely to help, even if it's not 100% effective. 

Seat belts, airbags, crumple zones - they all help, but if the collision is bad enough they won't.   Not a reason to toss them out if they help in the lesser collisions and don't induce overriding reckless behaviour.   

[Gorgoroth 12,308]

6 hours ago, ManDee said:

Bullet proof vests do not prevent gun deaths, seat beats do not prevent car accident deaths, safety boots do not prevent foot injuries, but they can help. 

Yes, but you can aplly that logic to anything. The fact is and its stated in many findings is that helmets in today's environment do not stop concussions as as stated by others, people studying this in the NFL believe the helmet causes more damage as it hits harder and players run harder with their head like a battering ram.

1 hour ago, sue said:

The above is true, but too pessimistic.  Some way of decreasing the deceleration of the head when it hits something is obviously needed.  If you run into a brick wall covered with a layer of rubber the head has to stop in a very small distance (and time) and therefore there is a high deceleration.  So how can you increase that distance? 

A large ball,  1 metre in diameter, made up of polystyrene balls on each player's head will clearly achieve the result (as well as making the  game unplayable).  Something between that and something sensible, probably requiring new materials, is very likely to help, even if it's not 100% effective. 

Seat belts, airbags, crumple zones - they all help, but if the collision is bad enough they won't.   Not a reason to toss them out if they help in the lesser collisions and don't induce overriding reckless behaviour.   

When I played Gridiron I used my head like a battering ram, you get taught to. Prob not so much these days. The current helmets are not designed well enough to disperse the energy, crumple zone cars have wider areas and the occupants within have more room. nfl helmets have more area space and padded zone and do little.

Players are now faster and bigger and they are playing on perfect grounds meaning collisions are much more severe than once were.

[sue 8,418]

52 minutes ago, Gorgoroth said:

Yes, but you can aplly that logic to anything. The fact is and its stated in many findings is that helmets in today's environment do not stop concussions as as stated by others, people studying this in the NFL believe the helmet causes more damage as it hits harder and players run harder with their head like a battering ram.

When I played Gridiron I used my head like a battering ram, you get taught to. Prob not so much these days. The current helmets are not designed well enough to disperse the energy, crumple zone cars have wider areas and the occupants within have more room. nfl helmets have more area space and padded zone and do little.

Players are now faster and bigger and they are playing on perfect grounds meaning collisions are much more severe than once were.

I don't think anyone is suggesting solid helmets like in Gridiron because of the battering-ram effects you refer to.  But a padded helmet is unlikely to lead to the same behaviour.  While there is a risk that  even such a helmet might lead to more dangerous behaviour,  if there is a technological 'soft'  solution in the wings I wouldn't rule out applying it until it was shown that the extra dangerous behaviour outweighed the benefit. 

[Gorgoroth 12,308]

1 hour ago, sue said:

I don't think anyone is suggesting solid helmets like in Gridiron because of the battering-ram effects you refer to.  But a padded helmet is unlikely to lead to the same behaviour.  While there is a risk that  even such a helmet might lead to more dangerous behaviour,  if there is a technological 'soft'  solution in the wings I wouldn't rule out applying it until it was shown that the extra dangerous behaviour outweighed the benefit. 

Agree. But as it stands the soft helmets offer little, pretty sure they are working on them tho.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Helmets do not stop your brain rattling inside your head.

[sue 8,418]

1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Helmets do not stop your brain rattling inside your head.

That is rather glib and sounds like you are just dismissing any chance of anything working.  Your brain will only 'rattle' if the skull is decelerated too quickly.   Find a helmet to address that and you can ameliorate the problem.   I expect it will require a fairly thick soft helmet and some new wonder material.

[Dee Dee 1,043]

You can bet on one thing with the AFL  and with the individual clubs namely, the threat of litigation will foster innovation.  Somewhere a solution will be found if the publicity and legal costs are severe enough.

And remember mums can be very angry when it comes to their sons safety.