Post Match Discussion: JLT #1 vs North Melbourne

[Farmer 680]

9 hours ago, The team we love said:

For those calling for Oscar to be dropped..

He kept Brown to 1 mark for the game. He out marked Brown twice, and hit a target with nearly every kick. 

He got pinged twice for holding but was not conclusive on the telecast. 

He looks stronger and more composed. Like the coaching staff, I’m going to back him in. 

Yet to turn 22, he must be in the top few KPD under that age. 

Agree

ive tipped him for top 5 in the Bluey Truscott. I'm quite serious! His improvement last year was outstanding

[Demon Dynasty 15,202]

22 hours ago, Sylvia Saint said:

One super impressive thing about Fritsch's game was that he had the EASIEST of chances to put his head down and kick a 4th goal, and more-or-less make it impossible to leave him out of Round 1. But he still chose to dish it off. Goodwin would have loved that.

  As much as he must have loved that SS i'm not so sure he would have liked the 2nd dish quite as much! 

[Demon Dynasty 15,202]

10 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

A stark contrast to practice games in years gone by where we’ve seen our side underperform/lose the game by some margin, with posters usually defending the performances without really being able to see warning signs either good or bad. (Usually bad up until last year).

Regardless of the fact that these games are not worth points, if a team is fielding a near full-strength side, then these games should be taken seriously from many angles. Individual development, synergy between positional lines, observable gameplan, arousal levels/urgency at contests.

All of those things were on show yesterday which is an enormous positive imo and the warning signs are positive in this case.. I don’t care that North will most likely finish in the bottom five this season. They similarly fielded a strong side and the end score-line flattered them tbh. 

There’s now an obvious and real blueprint in the way we are both playing and talking about ourselves as a club. Whether it’s Jennings in his post AFLX interview last week or Bernie in his interview during yesterday’s match, the line “playing the Melbourne way” is becoming thematic. We’re back it up in the way we’re carrying ourselves on-field. 

Whilst I don’t wish to bring it up as a discussion point, it’s easy to see why Watts was pushed out. A player who simply doesn’t display the traits that Goody and co hold every player accountable to. If you want to create and breed a culture that will stick at a club, everyone needs to display those traits.

I don’t care that it was a JLT game. To me these changes are real and what we’re building is very real as opposed to years previous. The list, personalities, coaches and board are all clearly hell bent on re-branding this club. And I love it. Of course I know there’ll be plenty of downs this along the way and this season especially. But for the first time in many many years, I genuinely love watching us play, the “Melbourne” way.

Go Dees.

Maldon you had me hitting yet another pre-season high.....until

[Demon trucker 1,729]

2 hours ago, Dr.D said:

 clearly you werent around last season. pedo had a patch of form over a month or so that was AA form. 

hogan is no longer regarded by other teams as a real threat and guys like daniher have gone straight passed him.  he used to be a good contested mark but now he just wrestles his man 1 on 1 and stages for frees. he needs to kick 50 goals minumum this season.

 

You are off your rocker hogan is 23, pedo is 30, and he had has just had a impacted you do realise hogan played 10 games and he still kicked 20 goals, hogan has done more in 2 and a  half seasons of playing, then pedo has in 8 years, if gawn did not pull his hammy pedo would of  barely got a game, pedo best position is first ruck. So looks like you are happy to lose hogan and keep pedo, you have lost it, looks like you rate pedo ahead of hogan.

Edited February 25, 2018 by don't make me angry

[faultydet 7,593]

Some people being very unkind to Oscar. I thought his field kicking was really good. Was out muscled in a marking contest once, but also took some terrific defensive grabs. He is improving.

Also some love for Pedo is warranted after his season last year. It was career best, and he played his role fantastically well at times, especially with Hogan out.

 

Good game, very pleasing result. 

Nice to see a smashing at any time. Getting excited for round 1

[Demon Dynasty 15,202]

 

9 hours ago, FlashInThePan said:

I personally loved seeing Hogan in the midfield occasionally. This is just another example of how hard we are going to be to match up against. Almost every player has another string to their bow and this just makes us really unpredictable. Try matching up a defender on hogan when we can just swing him into the midfield and rotate Trac in there instead. 

As we’ve seen Clarrie is attracting a tag now, how is that going to work out when we have such midfield depth and with his hands we could easily rotate him into the forward line to break the tag. He can swap with Melksham, Trac, Harmes, ANB, the list just goes on and on and they can all play a role in the midfield.

The added bonus is with Fritsch and Hannan around, it doesn’t matter if Hogan and/or TMac get double teamed to take them out of the game, they are both so good overhead we can still pull in marks inside 50. I may be getting a little ahead of myself but I am very excited about this year.

Bring it on!

As long as he doesn't start in the mid field as we had him do against the Pies in the final game last year.  Basically gives our opponent one less head ache / match up to worry about in their defence, slows up our mid field (or makes it slower) and deprives Hogan of valuable game time up forward to learn his craft and/or the potential to hit the scoreboard.  Don't mind if used very sparingly in the odd game as a change up as long as he isn't starting there.

[ILLDieADemon 804]

The younger players are starting to step up and lead this club!

[Earl Hood 5,787]

2 hours ago, rjay said:

Give it a break mate...

...put him on the open market and see how unregarded he is...not.

I hope Dr D is right because Hogan will kick a bag every game if he is regarded as not a threat to the opposition. 

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

If Brayshaw could play close to how he played against St Kilda last year he’d be a lock for the 22.

His problem however is he doesn’t really seem to have a position.

He’s not really and inside or outside midfielder, not a natural defender and we have a plethora of smaller forwards already.

He doesn’t get the ball enough and his disposal is questionable too (even before his concussions).

 

[whatwhat say what 18,777]

1 minute ago, Clint Bizkit said:

If Brayshaw could play close to how he played against St Kilda last year he’d be a lock for the 22.

His problem however is he doesn’t really seem to have a position.

He’s not really and inside or outside midfielder, not a natural defender and we have a plethora of smaller forwards already.

He doesn’t get the ball enough and his disposal is questionable too (even before his concussions).

 

Sadly I feel the same way

He does the little things well but not well enough and he lacks key abilities to be a truly damaging player

He really needs to step it up this year

I’m one of those who have doubts about his ability to do so

[Demon Dynasty 15,202]

2 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

Sadly I feel the same way

He does the little things well but not well enough and he lacks key abilities to be a truly damaging player

He really needs to step it up this year

I’m one of those who have doubts about his ability to do so

I am not as pumped about Brayshaw either DA but lets hope he makes it through injury free to see what potential is there.  Maynard is going to be some story me thinks given enough opportunity

[Winter Dan 425]

Would like to see Frost in the 22, however I suspect the coaches are valuing a more assured foot in Wagner. Joel Smith might ultimately be the solution.

[DeeSpencer 23,058]

2 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

The backlash when we traded for Melksham was ridiculous at the time.  

Melksham is proof that patience is required with any deal.  It took him half a season to settle, but he's looking better and better with every game.  He is looming as a very shrewd piece of business.

It took him a year and a half to settle! Lost the first year and was rubbish down back in the second. I still don't love the trade but I think the value in the deal was trading for a 24 year old who was reaching peak physical condition and finding a player who was unsettled - on and off field. First position change didn't work but second time hopefully does. 

[DeeSpencer 23,058]

22 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

If Brayshaw could play close to how he played against St Kilda last year he’d be a lock for the 22.

His problem however is he doesn’t really seem to have a position.

He’s not really and inside or outside midfielder, not a natural defender and we have a plethora of smaller forwards already.

He doesn’t get the ball enough and his disposal is questionable too (even before his concussions).

 

Might not be a natural defender but I think he's a natural for half back. Strong in the air for his size, one of the best tacklers in the team, very good one on one, one of the still all too rare players in this team who can handball with both hands and in time he can clean up his kicking on both legs.

I think if we left Gus at half back for a month or so he'd grow in to the role perfectly. 

The other obvious position to me would be to use him as a tagger. A few weeks following around the best players in the game would sharpen him up.

The missed footy takes a toll but the other thing I want to know is how hard the coaches are pushing him. I've watched him at training closely and he puts in and does enough things well that he's working hard, and at training he has a lot of kicks that float to where they need to go or he has that slight waddling run as he gets to a contest. He reminds me of Nathan Jones at a similar age who could clearly play the game but had concerns over his speed, kicking and position. I don't know what changed - maybe it was Neeld - but all of a sudden Jones was faster, kicking flatter and a much improved player. If he's mentally over his concussions I'd coach Brayshaw hard.

[Micksdemons 131]

Great JLT win ( it's only hit and giggle ) but we did it well - the attack on the ball or ball carrier was first rate and they looked for targets by hand and foot. The pressure was down so disposal efficiency was well above what we can expect in the real stuff - but good win never the less - liked Fritsch he'll put pressure on Hannan and the like including Bradshaw who's not in our best 22 

[Moonshadow 16,109]

18 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

It took him a year and a half to settle! Lost the first year and was rubbish down back in the second. I still don't love the trade but I think the value in the deal was trading for a 24 year old who was reaching peak physical condition and finding a player who was unsettled - on and off field. First position change didn't work but second time hopefully does. 

Sometimes fatherhood also settles a player, accelerating responsibility and maturity. Goodwin made mention of him becoming a parent in the after game presser. I always thought Milkshake was a bit lost and lacking focus, even when at Essendrug. Simplistic to say, but perhaps he is now happy with where his life is at. Was certainly a talented junior.

[Watts the matter 1,235]

4 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

He played the role he was asked to play

I'm not sure why I'm bothering but here goes.

This discussion stems from a discussion about where he fits in the team (initially someone claiming he was in our top 5 players, then progressing to discussing his place in our 22 for round 1). 

Can you name a player that did not play the role they were asked to play yesterday? We had 24 players playing, along with 4 best 22 players missing, so 6 players need to make way. 

You have not added anything to the discussion other than going out of your way to defend a player for no apparent reason. 

If you are just going to tow the company line, why bother posting in this thread. We are all capable of going to the club website and reading that for ourselves.

 

 

 

[Watts the matter 1,235]

5 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Except those you mention are essentially forwards, and Gus is a midfielder who can play back, as he did yesterday when Lewis went down. It's not a pecking order, as such, more who can play their assigned role for the given conditions and match ups.

But I respect your view and won't be offhand or dismissive of it despite not being in agreement 

I think the issue is, as other posters have mentioned in this thread, he doesn't have a position at this stage.

I enjoyed his work in his first 2 games back last year at half back, but the final game exposed his inconsistent skills. Unfortunately, yesterday was closer to the Collingwood game than the other 2.

The fringe players are all playing good football at this stage of the pre season and there really isn't a spot available in the backline.

The back 6 is looking likely to be: OMac, Lever, Jetta, Hibberd, Vince/Lewis and Hunt with some midfielders rotating back there. So essentially,  he is competing with the midfielders for a spot. 

 

[Diamond_Jim 11,676]

If Pederson is not in the 22 and we no longer have Jack W who is the relief ruck for the season?

I assume it is Tom Mc Donald but I'm not sure

[Macca 16,173]

12 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

If Pederson is not in the 22 and we no longer have Jack W who is the relief ruck for the season?

I assume it is Tom Mc Donald but I'm not sure

It is T-Mac DJ ... he's exceptionally durable and an ideal 2nd ruck for today's footy.  As well as that he can hold down a KPF spot which now requires good endurance levels.  Again,  ideally suited and he's a good kick for goal.  Spacial awareness is not a factor when distancing a kick is not a factor.  Just kick it between the 2 big white posts. 

I've done a complete about-face on rucking but Gawn can be so good that he could be classed as a throw-back/old school.  Good teams can win without a front-line ruckman these days - we did it against good teams last year. 

Jacobs/Adelaide had close to 70 knock-outs against us at home last year but we performed a 70 point turnaround against them (and won well)

 

[Deestroy All 14,261]

I think when the whole team plays well, as we did on Saturday, the one or few that don’t, stick out like dogs balls, that was Brayshaw unfortunately. 

I agree he hasn’t found a position, or been given one. I’m not sure what it is either. Maybe that is his position, a utility. We have depth all over the ground so there’s no pressing need for him to lock down a spot. We’ve seen he can do everything, good over head, tackling, can kick on both sides on a good day. I think he just needs a decent block of footy to find his form. 

 

Tomald did ok ok when he went into the ruck on Saturday. It’ll definitely be him if Pedo doesn’t play. BTW how was Tomald ever a backman? He’s such a natural forward. 

[Gator 16,891]

Round one is still a month away and "sadly" posters are agreeing re Brayshaw and his role.

Hopefully they'll be happy soon.

[Macca 16,173]

1 minute ago, Deestroy All said:

I think when the whole team plays well, as we did on Saturday, the one or few that don’t, stick out like dogs balls, that was Brayshaw unfortunately. 

I agree he hasn’t found a position, or been given one. I’m not sure what it is either. Maybe that is his position, a utility. We have depth all over the ground so there’s no pressing need for him to lock down a spot. We’ve seen he can do everything, good over head, tackling, can kick on both sides on a good day. I think he just needs a decent block of footy to find his form.

Tomald did ok ok when he went into the ruck on Saturday. It’ll definitely be him if Pedo doesn’t play. BTW how was Tomald ever a backman? He’s such a natural forward. 

Tom's great strength is his ability to read the play and make time for himself - a good asset if you're a backman (Scarlett) but a great asset if you're a forward. 

He's like an unexpected new recruit who can hold down a vital position which we didn't see coming.  T-Mac seems ideally suited as a forward.

Different to Neitz as the big fella could have been an all-time great CHB. 

[Uncle Fester 2,834]

I rate him. Some of his kicks to Jeffy in space in his first year were sublime. Those things might get rusty but you don't lose them. He just needs to shake the rust off.

[DeeSpencer 23,058]

14 minutes ago, Deestroy All said:

I think when the whole team plays well, as we did on Saturday, the one or few that don’t, stick out like dogs balls, that was Brayshaw unfortunately. 

I agree he hasn’t found a position, or been given one. I’m not sure what it is either. Maybe that is his position, a utility. We have depth all over the ground so there’s no pressing need for him to lock down a spot. We’ve seen he can do everything, good over head, tackling, can kick on both sides on a good day. I think he just needs a decent block of footy to find his form. 

 

Tomald did ok ok when he went into the ruck on Saturday. It’ll definitely be him if Pedo doesn’t play. BTW how was Tomald ever a backman? He’s such a natural forward. 

Big, fit, strong and competitive. It made sense that he start out a backman. I think we need to calm expectations a little on Tommy as a forward. Good defenders who read the play as well as he does will make life hard for him, he won't out reach, out power or out sprint them and he doesn't have a lot of tricks at ground level. He has a decent sidestep but that's about it, he's unlikely to snap goals or go on his left. He'll also chase hard but won't be a super agile forward pressure player.

His ability to run all day, compete in the air, lead hard at the kicker in between zones and hopefully reasonably consistent goal kicking can make him useful but he's the foil for Hogan/Petracca/Fritsch/Hannan etc more than being the main man. There's going to be times during the year the media will say he should go back and even games when he does go back.