Viney on Track for Round 1

[Lucifers Hero 36,983]

The key players injured last year were 'rushed back' in the sense none of them had a VFL game prior to coming back to AFL. 

The players were:  Gawn, Viney, Jones, Salem, Hogan, Watts, Garlett, Tyson and (except Hogan and Viney) they were mainly soft tissue injuries and IIRC all had at least 2/3 weeks out.

I don't profess to know when a player should come back via VFL after an injury stint out.  But it seemed to me these players while declared 'fit to play' lacked match fitness.  With the exception of Hogan they all struggled to impact games or get back to pre injury form or any really decent form.

So I would say some were 'rushed back' ie lacked match practice but which ones I have no idea. 

 

As to Viney, he is quoted as saying something like: 'yeah, I probably came back early but I would do the same thing again'.  Just the way he is wired, I guess.  But he has learnt to listen to his body and is doing it right this time.

 

All sorts of lessons were learnt by the club last year and managing the return of injured players would be one of them. 

[Wiseblood 24,636]

32 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

The key players injured last year were 'rushed back' in the sense none of them had a VFL game prior to coming back to AFL. 

The players were:  Gawn, Viney, Jones, Salem, Hogan, Watts, Garlett, Tyson and (except Hogan and Viney) they were mainly soft tissue injuries and IIRC all had at least 2/3 weeks out.

I don't profess to know when a player should come back via VFL after an injury stint out.  But it seemed to me these players while declared 'fit to play' lacked match fitness.  With the exception of Hogan they all struggled to impact games or get back to pre injury form or any really decent form.

So I would say some were 'rushed back' ie lacked match practice but which ones I have no idea. 

 

As to Viney, he is quoted as saying something like: 'yeah, I probably came back early but I would do the same thing again'.  Just the way he is wired, I guess.  But he has learnt to listen to his body and is doing it right this time.

 

All sorts of lessons were learnt by the club last year and managing the return of injured players would be one of them. 

The VFL is an interesting one, LH. Back in the 90s and even the 2000s it wasn't uncommon to see players come back through the reserves to gain match fitness. 

The modern game however seems to have all clubs bringing players straight back into the senior team without a run in the twos beforehand (on most occasions). 

I sometimes wonder if clubs will ever revert back to using the VFL to aid in recovery, or if the demands of the game in the W-L columns will see clubs continue to bring players back in regardless of match fitness. 

[Pennant St Dee 11,245]

3 hours ago, Demons1858 said:

Have you thought that you might be being just a little precious about the club and the sports science team? Its never nice hearing / reading negative comments but in this case there are facts that warrant at least a review the department.

Perhaps I could have expanded on the fact early. Here are some without looking back at the year in detail.

1. viney, gawn, watts all came back clearly underdone.

We are not the only club who is guilty of this. 1st week back is usually okay it's the second when lack of game fitness kicks in

Watts's attitude was a big part in his abolitu to not come back as well as he should have 

Watch Gawns first game back against Meth Coast. He along with Tmac and Viney were instrumental 

2. viney has had a secondary foot injury that places his career somewhat at risk

Why then is he aiming for round 1

3. the team has stalled in the back half of the season for the 2 to 3rd years

That's common for sides of our age bracket. We now have a large chunk getting between the 50 too 100 game bracket. Big factor

 

 

[Demons1858 1,657]

5 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

The key players injured last year were 'rushed back' in the sense none of them had a VFL game prior to coming back to AFL. 

The players were:  Gawn, Viney, Jones, Salem, Hogan, Watts, Garlett, Tyson and (except Hogan and Viney) they were mainly soft tissue injuries and IIRC all had at least 2/3 weeks out.

I don't profess to know when a player should come back via VFL after an injury stint out.  But it seemed to me these players while declared 'fit to play' lacked match fitness.  With the exception of Hogan they all struggled to impact games or get back to pre injury form or any really decent form.

So I would say some were 'rushed back' ie lacked match practice but which ones I have no idea. 

 

As to Viney, he is quoted as saying something like: 'yeah, I probably came back early but I would do the same thing again'.  Just the way he is wired, I guess.  But he has learnt to listen to his body and is doing it right this time.

 

All sorts of lessons were learnt by the club last year and managing the return of injured players would be one of them. 

At last some independent thought without knee jerk defensive reactions

[Demons1858 1,657]

5 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

The VFL is an interesting one, LH. Back in the 90s and even the 2000s it wasn't uncommon to see players come back through the reserves to gain match fitness. 

The modern game however seems to have all clubs bringing players straight back into the senior team without a run in the twos beforehand (on most occasions). 

I sometimes wonder if clubs will ever revert back to using the VFL to aid in recovery, or if the demands of the game in the W-L columns will see clubs continue to bring players back in regardless of match fitness. 

Mature aged players (we don't have many of those) seem to be able to draw from fitness reserves and have set standards of performance they seem to be able to maintain when coming back from injury. Our players seem to struggle,. Some time in the VFL should be part of the solution but the club needs to get better at making decision about when to bring them back and at what level. They failed dismally at that the last 2 years maybe 3

[Demons1858 1,657]

4 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

 

Pennant I get what you are saying but that's why we have some many support staff to make decisions on the players and get them wrong so often. It comes across to me as excuses as to why we stuffed things up. At what point do you say they stuffed things up once too often? Refer to Lucifer's earlier post of more players that also came back from injury.

If watts is to busy selling shorts to rehab properly then send him to the VFL to start with.

If Gawn is coming back after 10 weeks off then play him for a half then a full game in the VFL first or do more intense training.

If Viney says I have a serious foot injury but I'm going to play anyway, then don't let him play as he is our most valuable player and we won't risk him unless we deep into finals already ...

[bing181 8,149]

On 2/24/2018 at 1:11 AM, Wiseblood said:

I sometimes wonder if clubs will ever revert back to using the VFL to aid in recovery, or if the demands of the game in the W-L columns will see clubs continue to bring players back in regardless of match fitness. 

Whether players play VFL or AFL, the assumption is that in injury-terms, they've "recovered".

So the question then is whether or not playing games at a lower-skilled, scrappier level helps with match fitness - and it would seem that increasingly, and certainly for more experienced players, clubs have decided that it doesn't, and/or the risks involved (injuries of different sort etc) aren't worth it.

FWIW, I don't believe that playing Gawn or Watts at Casey would have changed anything at all about how they performed on their return. Gawn missed so much footy he was always going to be off the pace for the tail end of the season, and Watts, well, we know what happened there.

[Deemania since 56 6,122]

Can we be nice to one another rather than argue? Everyone is entitled to their opinion and has the right to express it in this forum. It is like a gathering of thoughts, more than anything else. Criticism is often based on observational paradigms to which a sharing of ideas may provide more clarity. Good evening, all.

[Demons1858 1,657]

On 21/02/2018 at 10:16 AM, Wiseblood said:

Considering the Demonland medicos had him pencilled in to return in June, this is terrific news.

I must admit I'm surprised the Demonland medicos got it wrong, as that's never happened before...

demonland medicos know our medical and PR departments talk rubbish when memberships are on the line

[Demons1858 1,657]

On 22/02/2018 at 11:53 PM, A F said:

That's absolute twaddle. You've no idea of the inner workings of the medical team.

hmm ... without being in the inner workings l seemed to have been on the mark ... will go further and say he will also likely miss round 2 but you can keep believing the clubs spin

Edited March 9, 2018 by Demons1858

[Demons1858 1,657]

On 23/02/2018 at 9:20 PM, bing181 said:

You made a rubbish observation based on nothing but ill-informed speculation. You were called on it. That's how forums work.

not so rubbish now bing

[Whispering_Jack 27,925]

Topic closed as it’s clearly not going to happen for JV  by the opening round.