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Whispering_Jack

Preseason Training Week commencing - 05/02/18

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10 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Why?

The obvious answer is because he's 7 foot tall. 

Gawn would chase and pressure to the best of his ability but his agility to change directions to tackle or to gather the ball at ground level is still going to be worse than most key forwards yet alone smalls.

Playing off him as a predictable target to at least bring the ball to ground isn't a bad idea and I like the mobility of Tom McDonald/Pedersen in the ruck so I expect to see Max forward a fair bit but more a rest or change up than regular tactic.

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16 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

 

Gee, I got excited for a second trying to work out who our new recruit was. Rooke looks in pretty good nick for seven years out of the game. Can you convince Frost to don the bag for a snap Saty? Then he'd really look like Optimus Prime.

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17 hours ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

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It was Max running down Selwood that led to his hamstring injury last season.

He definitely puts in the effort when the ball hits the deck.

 

Was this when he was resting forward?

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17 hours ago, PaulRB said:

Actually it is. Gawn resting forward would generally be deep forward, he'd draw at least one tall defender (possibly 2), and our forwards would know the balls likely to come in long and high at Maxy, be at his feat then work hard to apply defensive pressure if theres a turn over...

If you're implying Max is unaccountable or disinclined to chase, I disagree. 

Well done, in one post you've managed to not addrss my original point, managed to support my original point, theb also misinterpret my original point totally, all in a matter of two paragraphs.

That's quite an art.

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9 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

The obvious answer is because he's 7 foot tall. 

Gawn would chase and pressure to the best of his ability but his agility to change directions to tackle or to gather the ball at ground level is still going to be worse than most key forwards yet alone smalls.

Playing off him as a predictable target to at least bring the ball to ground isn't a bad idea and I like the mobility of Tom McDonald/Pedersen in the ruck so I expect to see Max forward a fair bit but more a rest or change up than regular tactic.

You are being totally unfair on Max and he will surprise you

They have brought in Mark Bradtke to assist with the big man agility and with another full pre season under his belt Max's aerobic capacity has gone to another level

And I thought as a track watcher you would see Max working on the facets of the game you reckon he has shorcomings in

 

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13 hours ago, CBDees said:

Others or other’s?

Others' actually ;)

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1 hour ago, The Chazz said:

Was this when he was resting forward?

Straight after a Centre bounce. He dived to tackle him. 

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1 minute ago, Pipefitter said:

Straight after a Centre bounce. He dived to tackle him. 

So nothing to do with my questioning of his agility/mobility/pressure acts when resting forward?  Thought as much.

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2 hours ago, The Chazz said:

Well done, in one post you've managed to not addrss my original point, managed to support my original point, theb also misinterpret my original point totally, all in a matter of two paragraphs.

That's quite an art.

Why thank you. Although I can’t take all the credit, as your “original point” was more a subjective imagining than one based on the reality of watching Maxy’s defensive efforts and effect when playing forward.

and that’s quite an art too! 😊

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55 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

So nothing to do with my questioning of his agility/mobility/pressure acts when resting forward?  Thought as much.

Without wishing to enter your dispute, surely his ability to chase down a mid like selwood is relevant in so far as if he can show agility/mobility/pressure acts in the centre square surely that suggests he can do the same when resting forward?

Edited by binman
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Except for the most unusual circumstances, if Max has to chase a medium sized player like Selwood it is only because his teammates have let him down. He doesn't expect them to ruck and so they should not expect him to rove.

When Max rests forward, it is not to play like Jeffie but to stretch the opposition with his height and marking ability and create a mismatch to our advantage. If, as Saty says, he might surprise us with his skills at ground level, then it will be a bonus, not the main game.

 

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I don't like Max spending too much time forward. His defensive pressure is a liability and I don't really see it being much of a rest given how far the forwards have to push up the ground. IMO it is better to have him spend his petrol tickets in the ruck, where he is able to dominate.

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1 hour ago, tiers said:

Except for the most unusual circumstances, if Max has to chase a medium sized player like Selwood it is only because his teammates have let him down. He doesn't expect them to ruck and so they should not expect him to rove.

When Max rests forward, it is not to play like Jeffie but to stretch the opposition with his height and marking ability and create a mismatch to our advantage. If, as Saty says, he might surprise us with his skills at ground level, then it will be a bonus, not the main game.

 

Well that goes without saying but i don't think anyone was suggesting he play like JG up forward. 

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On 08/02/2018 at 10:44 AM, The Chazz said:

The mobility and forward pressure of Tmc won't help our forward line when he is pinch-hitting in the ruck.

Why do you think Pedo has trimmed down and worked a lot on his tank?  Will be the same when/if Weed can come on (TMc will become the relief ruck).

You've said it yourself, we have 2 quality KPFs in Hogan and McDonald.  Our entire forward line structure, and a lot of our game plan, would be built around the way those 2 work together.  You take one of them out to give Gawn a chop out, and your structure is impacted.  One solution is to rest Gawn forward, but as you said, mobility/forward pressure will be a KPI, something that will let Gawn down.

I sure hope not 'Chazz' and I very much doubt it will.

It's all about flexibility these days and I expect we will use our strengths where we see fit.

That will mean Tommy Mac in the ruck at times and Hogan running as a mid at others.

Petracca, Hannan & Fritsch are all strong overhead and will cause problems for oppo defences with their mobility.

Unlike you, I think we will  line up with just Tommy as the 2nd ruck choice and play more runners. How often we do this who knows...

Pedders has stiff competition, if he's to get a regular game he needs to be able to play Tommy's role or the role of a 3rd Tall/Medium.

We may carry him as a rotation on the bench but I wouldn't back in that we always go that way.

Our entire forward structure won't be as structured as you are proposing, flexibility will be key and I like it...I think Goody will as well going by the training reports.

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3 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

You are being totally unfair on Max and he will surprise you

They have brought in Mark Bradtke to assist with the big man agility and with another full pre season under his belt Max's aerobic capacity has gone to another level

And I thought as a track watcher you would see Max working on the facets of the game you reckon he has shorcomings in

 

He’s 7 foot tall and white! There’s only so much agility the man can have. Of course he’s working at it but he can’t chase down mobile defenders. I’d be annoyed if we were playing against him and he consistently pressured the likes of Jetta, Hibberd, Frost, Lever or Hunt! 

That’s not to say he’s not working on it, improving or a viable forward option it’s just a reality. 

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3 hours ago, The Chazz said:

So nothing to do with my questioning of his agility/mobility/pressure acts when resting forward?  Thought as much.

Is there a difference between a run down tackle in the middle of the ground compared to one in the 50m arc?

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2 hours ago, tiers said:

Except for the most unusual circumstances, if Max has to chase a medium sized player like Selwood it is only because his teammates have let him down. He doesn't expect them to ruck and so they should not expect him to rove.

 

Disagree on that. Rucks have to be extra mids around the ground and at stoppages. The Tigers used Nankervis and Grigg as ruck rovers as much as rucks to use the old terminology. Dogs the same with Boyd and Roughead when they won the flag. The way teams link from handball at stoppages requires rucks to stay involved. Pedersen and McDonald did it very well last year and we were better with them than with Gawn! But we need Max at his best back in. For us to win in round 1 he has to dominate the taps but he’ll also have to chase Danger, Selwood and Ablett at the stoppages as well!

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6 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

You are being totally unfair on Max and he will surprise you

They have brought in Mark Bradtke to assist with the big man agility and with another full pre season under his belt Max's aerobic capacity has gone to another level

And I thought as a track watcher you would see Max working on the facets of the game you reckon he has shorcomings in

 

In my limited viewing of training this pre I would say that Max's improved mobility is something that has particularly caught my eye.

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If Max is so dominant at ground level playing forward, and creates such a mismatch for the opposition, why don't we have Pedo playing 1st ruck and Man playing one out in the square?

You only have to look at our opponents in Round 1 to see how this will play out.  If Max is there (deep forward), they will have either Harry Taylor or Lachie Henderson zoning off him all day long.

In my view, that's why we need to play Pederson, as well as Hogan and McDonald.

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On 2/8/2018 at 10:04 AM, D4Life said:

Could OMac become our LRT at CHB and Frost become the 2018 Demon version of Sean Wight, sprinting out from FB, with either Lewis or Lever shouting at them what to do with the ball when they get it!

 

Very hard to imagine

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I hope that Max's improved aerobic capacity will allow him to get to the next ruck of marking contest faster than his lumbering opponents and get the best position and not be dissipated chasing midgets.

A 210cm tall skillful, mobile, marking and potentially dominating ruckman is a precious and rare commodity and he should be served by his teammates.

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1 minute ago, tiers said:

I hope that Max's improved aerobic capacity will allow him to get to the next ruck of marking contest faster than his lumbering opponents and get the best position and not be dissipated chasing midgets.

A 210cm tall skillful, mobile, marking and potentially dominating ruckman is a precious and rare commodity and he should be served by his teammates.

The qualities in your last paragraph is what makes him a dominant ruck, but he's not the dominant forward option some are talking about on here.

Joe Danihar (200+ cm) is a good example of someone that has the same qualities (except the ruck part) as Max, but is a dominant forward.  He's not dominant when he goes in the ruck.  Ben Brown (200+ cm) is the same.

I'd be very surprised if Max kicks more than 10 goals this season.  And he'll kick more when playing ruck than he will when resting forward.  Take it to the bank.

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OMac has much more potential than LRT ever had. Just be patient as he develops.

Frost is bigger, stronger and faster than Sean Wight was and could, if coached well, become an outstanding 60-80m ball carrier rapidly transitioning from defence to attack. Imagine if our forwards were trained to respond to his play.

Our dearly beloved and missed Sean was brilliant in his own way.

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