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Vineytime

Preseason Training Week commencing - 22/01/18

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7 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

do you see him as best 22 for us at this stage saty? i see him really as part of that next rotation of players that will be in a ding-dong battle to make a spot on the bench, along with hannan, anb, brayshaw, stretch, bugg, and hopefully some emerging players like fritsch and spargo too

have you ever nominated what you'd like to see as our starting 22 at this (super early) stage of the season?

mine:

B: Jetta - O Mac - Vince
HB: Hunt - Lever - Hibberd
C: Salem - Jones - Lewis
HF: Petracca - Hogan - Melksham
F: Pedersen - T Mac - Garlett
Foll: Gawn - Oliver - Viney
I/c: Harmes - Frost - Hannan - ANB
Emerg: Brayshaw - Stretch - Bugg

B: JETTA, OMCDONALD, LEWIS

HB: HIBBERD, LEVER, HUNT

C: PETRACCA, OLIVER, TYSON

HF: MELKSHAM, T.MCDONALD, NEAL-BULLEN

F: GARLETT, HOGAN, HANNAN

FOLL: GAWN, JONES, VINEY

IC: VINCE, SALEM, BRAYSHAW, HARMES

EMERG: MAYNARD, FROST, PEDERSEN

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28 minutes ago, forever demons said:

you watch a lot of training,someone posted awhile back fritsch is like bob flower any thoughts on that

A bit of a comparison to live up to, he is one of those who seems to float around the ground and bob up not where expected, just good game awareness and good in the air

Edited by Satyriconhome
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2 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

A bit of a comparison to live up to, he is one those who seems to float around the ground and bob up not where expected, just good game awareness and good in the air

i know nobody can ever be bobby

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23 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

do you see him as best 22 for us at this stage saty? i see him really as part of that next rotation of players that will be in a ding-dong battle to make a spot on the bench, along with hannan, anb, brayshaw, stretch, bugg, and hopefully some emerging players like fritsch and spargo too

have you ever nominated what you'd like to see as our starting 22 at this (super early) stage of the season?

mine:

B: Jetta - O Mac - Vince
HB: Hunt - Lever - Hibberd
C: Salem - Jones - Lewis
HF: Petracca - Hogan - Melksham
F: Pedersen - T Mac - Garlett
Foll: Gawn - Oliver - Viney
I/c: Harmes - Frost - Hannan - ANB
Emerg: Brayshaw - Stretch - Bugg

I never bother now coz Goodwin will pick a fully fit and in form 22 each week, if we get everbody up and running Jade Rawlings will be licking his lips at the talent he will have at his disposal each week at Casey

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2 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Correct Tyson was 4th, the competition for midfield spots is going to be fierce, Tyson is finally over knee issues and is another one who is fitter than ever, again his words

Sort a starting midfield out of those who are training with the midfield group during the presason

Jones, Tyson, Petracca, Oliver, Salem, Brayshaw, Harmes, Stretch, Maynard, Baker

Viney

And those that can rotate thru there

Lewis, Vince, Hogan, ANB, Bugg, Melksham, Hannan

I’m as bullish as anyone about our chances this year but that list doesn’t scream midfield dominance  over too many sides.

Jones, Oliver and Viney are a good starting group but after that young blokes with potential who are yet to prove themselves as full time mids (Petracca, Brayshaw and Salem), old blokes who are past their prime (Lewis and Vince), a few who are unlikely to be anymore than midfield pinch hitters (Hogan, Bugg, Baker, Maynard, Stretch, Melksham and Hannan). Then there is Tyson who can get the ball fine but would have to be one of the worst left foot kicks in the game. 

Across the 3 groups (backs, fwds, mids) it is the midfielders that concern me the most. 

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45 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

yeah, i still see pedo as very much in our calculations for round 1, before a football has been kicked in anger

i fail to see how the likes of viney and weed would be ready in time

i also think we're likely to want to put pressure on a geelong backline missing lonergan and mackie; yes, taylor will switch back there, but no lonergan and mackie is still a big loss

it'll be interesting to see what they go with in terms of best 22 next year, particularly around their forward line - will crameri get a game, or will they go was hawkins as sole forward?

here's what fox sports said is their best 22:

B: Jed Bews, Lachie Henderson, Tom Stewart

HB: Jake Kolodjashnij, Harry Taylor, Zach Tuohy

C: Mark Blicavs, Gary Ablett, Mitch Duncan

HF: Cam Guthrie, Stewart Crameri, Sam Menegola

F: Dan Menzel, Tom Hawkins, Nakia Cockatoo

FOLL: Zac Smith, Patrick Dangerfield, Joel Selwood

I/C: Tim Kelly, Brandan Parfitt, Scott Selwood, James Parsons

EMG: Jordan Murdoch, Lincoln McCarthy, Rhys Stanley

based on that we might want to test them out as they're quite tall defensively but not so much in the forward half of the ground

The backline looks lite on without Enright, Mackie, Lonergan...to name a few they've lost over the last couple of years.

It's not easy replacing champions.

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Saty, where is Hunt? Training with the backs presumably but what a dynamic midfielder if used in bursts.

There is no need to "rank" the players in our midfield rotation. Apart from maybe Clarrie, there is not a drastic drop of in ability and none of them is considered a dependable "matchwinner" unlike the Cats who drop off rapidly after Danger and Selwood or the Tiges who rely too much on Dust). Worked in 2017 but can it keep working.

They will play as a unit that is able to share the load and maintain constant and consistent pressure on other teams' midfields. Overwhelm by weight of numbers.

What if we played Hogan at CHF, Omac (or Frost or Lever) at CHB and Max in the ruck as the three talls in a structure with nine rotating midfielders - ie 2 HBF, 2 wings, 2 HFF and three in the square. In fact, Frost and Lever have the speed and stamina to also play as burst midfielders. Let's swarm all over the opposition and keep them guessing.

 

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OMac is progressing nicely. He seems to suffer here because he is not what he expected to be. So ******* what. Not everyone can be, or needs to be, a backline gorilla, an intercept maestro or a slingshot. Steady and effective will do for me.

He gets to a contest, he is learning how to position himself to advantage at the contest, he regularly outmarks his opponent and has the potential to make good choices.  Just a young, developing player for the future.

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I ate some humble pie with this kid last year and he definitely has improved. I hope the trend continues!

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2 hours ago, DemonAndrew said:

yeah, i still see pedo as very much in our calculations for round 1, before a football has been kicked in anger

i fail to see how the likes of viney and weed would be ready in time

i also think we're likely to want to put pressure on a geelong backline missing lonergan and mackie; yes, taylor will switch back there, but no lonergan and mackie is still a big loss

it'll be interesting to see what they go with in terms of best 22 next year, particularly around their forward line - will crameri get a game, or will they go was hawkins as sole forward?

here's what fox sports said is their best 22:

B: Jed Bews, Lachie Henderson, Tom Stewart

HB: Jake Kolodjashnij, Harry Taylor, Zach Tuohy

C: Mark Blicavs, Gary Ablett, Mitch Duncan

HF: Cam Guthrie, Stewart Crameri, Sam Menegola

F: Dan Menzel, Tom Hawkins, Nakia Cockatoo

FOLL: Zac Smith, Patrick Dangerfield, Joel Selwood

I/C: Tim Kelly, Brandan Parfitt, Scott Selwood, James Parsons

EMG: Jordan Murdoch, Lincoln McCarthy, Rhys Stanley

based on that we might want to test them out as they're quite tall defensively but not so much in the forward half of the ground

Geelong have a top midfield and stuff all else apart from Taylor and occasional cameo from Hawkins!

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1 hour ago, tiers said:

where is Hunt? Training with the backs presumably but what a dynamic midfielder if used in bursts.

Hunt is another that ticks off sessions without standing out, on craft days they have him running and bouncing thru the middle of the ground and delivering to a forward

The drill he does stand out in is the one  I mentioned where the defenders launch torps from goal square, he regularly makes the centre bounce circle or further

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If everything goes right on rehab front, only one missing when season starts is AVB

From training sessions, like the midfield pick a starting 6 from this

Hogan, Tommy Mc, Garlett, Hannan, Pedo, ANB, Kent, Bugg, Melksham, Tim Smith, JKH, DJ, Spargo, Fritsch  they all bring something different and at the moment are all fit

 

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6 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

If everything goes right on rehab front, only one missing when season starts is AVB

From training sessions, like the midfield pick a starting 6 from this

Hogan, Tommy Mc, Garlett, Hannan, Pedo, ANB, Kent, Bugg, Melksham, Tim Smith, JKH, DJ, Spargo, Fritsch  they all bring something different and at the moment are all fit

 

If everything goes right on rehab front, we will probably not debut any new players round one! If that comes to pass, how many seasons since that has happened.

 

 

Edited by Dee Dee

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5 hours ago, don't make me angry said:

Pedo will not play round1,  as silly as it sounds he value to the team is as a sole ruckmen, he does not win many taps, but will out smart most ruckmen  around the ground, I think they will play weeds round 1, they will give him first crack, or they won't play either, hogan and T Mac are the 2 tall forwards, I know many love pedo, but he goes missing after every good game.

Unless he’s injured he has to be in the team rnd. 

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5 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

I never bother now coz Goodwin will pick a fully fit and in form 22 each week, if we get everbody up and running Jade Rawlings will be licking his lips at the talent he will have at his disposal each week at Casey

He didn't do that in 2017.

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38 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

He didn't do that in 2017.

Yes he did, if you are talking Viney, you don't know Viney, I jokingly call him the Black Knight (from Monty Python)

There were also a couple of instances where guys were tearing it up at Casey but didn't translate to AFL when brought in

Suspensions didn't help either 

Edited by Satyriconhome

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3 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Yes he did, if you are talking Viney, you don't know Viney, I jokingly call him the Black Knight (from Monty Python)

There were also a couple of instances where guys were tearing it up at Casey but didn't translate to AFL when brought in

Suspensions didn't help either 

Joel Smith?

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1 minute ago, Satyriconhome said:

Yes he did, if you are talking Viney, you don't know Viney, I jokingly call him the Black Knight (from Monty Python)

There were also a couple of instances where guys were tearing it up at Casey but didn't translate to AFL when brought in

Suspensions didn't help either 

...but the coach is paid the big bucks to know better.

I think we could also add the return of Smith to the list of premature inclusions.

All coaches say they will pick players who are fit and in form. None them follow through, it's just human nature...not having a go at him for it. 

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2 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Joel Smith?

Please, Joel Smith was/is highly rated by the FD, he looked ready to go at training

Speaking to the players (which I do), Goodwin means it, it's not hot air, you will be fit, in form and playing your role to a high standard

That's why training is impressing the non regular watchers, every player knows they have to be in team Rd 1 or it is going to be a long season

Goodwin now has the depth of talent to do this

If you want to go the other way Frost's form slipped alarmingly, he was dropped

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6 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Please, Joel Smith was/is highly rated by the FD, he looked ready to go at training

 

...if you are selecting on form you're talking match form not how they perform at training.

I rate Smith but I think to much expectation was placed on him as an inexperienced player coming back from injury with no form on the board.

Goodwin & the FD took a punt on him & it failed.

As I said in the previous post, all coaches talk the mantra of form & fitness...none of them rigorously follow it through. There are a myriad of reasons why and they're mostly if not all related to human nature. Unless Goodwin is a robot we will still get inconsistencies.

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6 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Please, Joel Smith was/is highly rated by the FD, he looked ready to go at training

Speaking to the players (which I do), Goodwin means it, it's not hot air, you will be fit, in form and playing your role to a high standard

That's why training is impressing the non regular watchers, every player knows they have to be in team Rd 1 or it is going to be a long season

Goodwin now has the depth of talent to do this

If you want to go the other way Frost's form slipped alarmingly, he was dropped

Yet Trengove and Kennedy were getting BOG most weeks and were constantly ignored.. Goingby Plapps reviews these 2 were always playing their role and in form.

So realistically your theory about Goodwin rewarding guys who are in form every week is wrong.

Kennedy should have at least been given a go and rewarded for form. Joel Smith had 13 weeks off and came straight back into the AFL side, after a week at Casey.. it was a bizarre and stupid decision. He looked completely out of his depth.

The decision to keep Weideman in the side early on the year while Pedo was in hot form is another mind boggling decision. 

Sorry, but Goody and the selection committee need to be on their toes this year, as last year some decision were quiet questionable.

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18 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Yet Trengove and Kennedy were getting BOG most weeks and were constantly ignored.. Goingby Plapps reviews these 2 were always playing their role and in form.

So realistically your theory about Goodwin rewarding guys who are in form every week is wrong.

Kennedy should have at least been given a go and rewarded for form. Joel Smith had 13 weeks off and came straight back into the AFL side, after a week at Casey.. it was a bizarre and stupid decision. He looked completely out of his depth.

The decision to keep Weideman in the side early on the year while Pedo was in hot form is another mind boggling decision. 

Sorry, but Goody and the selection committee need to be on their toes this year, as last year some decision were quiet questionable.

Have to agree, unfortunately. I'd add bringing back viney too early (might have cost us finals) and the muddle they got themselves in down back by dropping frost at the end of the season.

Yes Frosty's form had dropped off but at a crucial time dropping him completely unsettled the backline (for whom synergy is critical) and forward line with tmac having to go back. Making things worse was tmac was poor down back, particularly against the pies. Again you could argue that call cost us a finals spot given we missed them by such a small percentage.

In hindsight picking watts at the end of the season was perplexing given no doubt the decision had been made to trade him. Probably the right call given finals on the line but that also reinforced we were trading a key player. What would happened if we had made finals and heaven forbid won one? Still trade him?

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27 minutes ago, binman said:

bringing back viney too early

Hindsight bias.

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16 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

A bit of a comparison to live up to, he is one of those who seems to float around the ground and bob up not where expected, just good game awareness and good in the air

I see a little bit of a young Cameron Bruce in Fritsch.

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17 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Hindsight bias.

Not really, many supporter on here and social media were quite surprised he came back really early, and some even questioned whether this could put more stress on his foot. 

Turns out they were right.

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