Jump to content

Discussion on recent allegations about the use of illicit drugs in football is forbidden
  • IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

    Posting unsubstantiated rumours on this website is strictly forbidden.

    Demonland has made the difficult decision to not permit this platform to be used to discuss & debate the off-field issues relating to the Melbourne Football Club including matters currently being litigated between the Club & former Board members, board elections, the issue of illicit drugs in footy, the culture at the club & the personal issues & allegations against some of our players & officials ...

    We do not take these issues & this decision lightly & of course we believe that these serious matters affecting the club we love & are so passionate about are worthy of discussion & debate & I wish we could provide a place where these matters can be discussed in a civil & respectful manner.

    However these discussions unfortunately invariably devolve into areas that may be defamatory, libelous, spread unsubstantiated rumours & can effect the mental health of those involved. Even discussion & debate of known facts or media reports can lead to finger pointing, blame & personal attacks.

    The repercussion is that these discussions can open this website, it’s owners & it’s users to legal action & may result in this website being forced to shutdown.

    Our moderating team are all volunteers & cannot moderate the forum 24/7 & as a consequence problematic content that contravenes our rules & standards may go unnoticed for some time before it can be removed.

    We reserve the right to delete posts that offend against our above policy & indeed, to ban posters who are repeat offenders or who breach our code of conduct.

    WE HAVE BUILT A FANTASTIC ONLINE COMMUNITY AT DEMONLAND OVER THE PAST 23 YEARS & WE WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO BE ABLE TO DISCUSS THE CLUB WE LOVE & ARE SO PASSIONATE ABOUT.

    Thank you for your continued support & understanding. Go Dees.


The Most Talented List According to Champion Data


JAG007

Recommended Posts

If economics is the dismal science then surely statistics is the doleful science.

i do wonder what data Champion Data  gathers and how they use/interpret it.

Jayden Hunt considered elite while Michael Hibberd not mentioned, ridiculous in the extreme! Jayden Hunt has the talent to become elite but he has a fair way to go. Hibberd AA proves my point.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That’s a very strange list, how do they come up with this crap any wonder no one takes them seriously 

Bulldogs for example johannisen elite but bontempelli not?

collingwood jack crisp elite? Who the hell is jack crisp sounds like a bag of chips

westhoff elite? I really should have stopped reading there 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7. Western Bulldogs – One elite player (Jason Johannisen).

Note: The Dogs have nine above average players and 12 average players. Marcus Bontempelli is only in the average category.

 

Champion Data, ladies and gentlemen. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Dee Dee said:

If economics is the dismal science then surely statistics is the doleful science.

i do wonder what data Champion Data  gathers and how they use/interpret it.

Jayden Hunt considered elite while Michael Hibberd not mentioned, ridiculous in the extreme! Jayden Hunt has the talent to become elite but he has a fair way to go. Hibberd AA proves my point.

Wonder no more! Buy the book for the bargain price of $40!

https://shop.championdata.com.au/order.aspx

* I have no idea if they reveal how they rate the players.

I do know that Supercoach scores are now directly related to Champion Data points. If you kick a goal to put your team in front with 1 minute to go, it gets more points than if you kick a goal while 10 goals up or down. 

They obviously do not have Hunt as a half back flanker as Hibberd isn't elite. (Unless they don't have Hibberd as a hbf)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Dee Dee said:

If economics is the dismal science then surely statistics is the doleful science.

i do wonder what data Champion Data  gathers and how they use/interpret it.

Jayden Hunt considered elite while Michael Hibberd not mentioned, ridiculous in the extreme! Jayden Hunt has the talent to become elite but he has a fair way to go. Hibberd AA proves my point.

Not to mention ... Tracc elite (ok, I'll wear that) but then Oliver not???

 

Maybe they go by looks in which case Clarry will never make it.

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Nothing wrong with the way they count kicks and handballs , how many games a players has played...that's stats, that's what they do and do well.

It's when they take the stats and try to extrapolate out things like this that they are way out of their depth.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow.

 

I think some of this might have a heavy weight on unrealised potential if Petracca is "elite"

On output thus far, Oliver is light years head.

 

And Hunt before Hibberd?

Bloody hell. I know absolutely bugger-all about footy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You’ve got to read the context. Elite means the top 10% in their designated position over the previous 2 seasons not 1.

I don’t know how specific they get. Eg Inside Onballer v Outside onballer v midfielder (ie this could be a wing). Wonder if they divide half forwards into categories like High HF v Defensive HF. 

I’d say Johansen is only assessed against other attacking HB’s  and had an incredible 2016 with a Norm whereas Bontempelli is competing to be top 10% of all inside onballers. I can see that result. However I’m dazed and confused by the Bont not even being above average just average  I guess they are stats based and his stats were probably down this year  

Track would be competing against high and goal kicking HF’s whereas Clarry is competing against all in and under midfielders over the past 2 seasons. I can see that. 

Let me just add that having said all the above  I think most of their rankings are totally stuffed. Joel Selwood isn’t elite Jeremy Howe is.  You can go on and on. I’ve never rated their ranking system. 

Edited by It's Time
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 01/02/2018 at 7:27 PM, Mazer Rackham said:

Not to mention ... Tracc elite (ok, I'll wear that) but then Oliver not???

 

Maybe they go by looks in which case Clarry will never make it.

Petracca probably classed as a med-fwd and Oliver a mid would explain the discrepancy.

I've bought the AFL prospectus the last few years and it is a very interesting read. AFL advanced stats are still in their infancy but I think they do a great job of trying to explain the game. They do not release the vast majority of stats to the public which is a shame. For example something like "hitouts to advantage" tells more about a ruckman than plain "hitouts" but these stats are not available.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 01/02/2018 at 11:15 PM, It's Time said:

You’ve got to read the context. Elite means the top 10% in their designated position over the previous 2 seasons not 1.

I don’t know how specific they get. Eg Inside Onballer v Outside onballer v midfielder (ie this could be a wing). Wonder if they divide half forwards into categories like High HF v Defensive HF. 

I’d say Johansen is only assessed against other attacking HB’s  and had an incredible 2016 with a Norm whereas Bontempelli is competing to be top 10% of all inside onballers. I can see that result. However I’m dazed and confused by the Bont not even being above average just average  I guess they are stats based and his stats were probably down this year  

Track would be competing against high and goal kicking HF’s whereas Clarry is competing against all in and under midfielders over the past 2 seasons. I can see that. 

Let me just add that having said all the above  I think most of their rankings are totally stuffed. Joel Selwood isn’t elite Jeremy Howe is.  You can go on and on. I’ve never rated their ranking system. 

They don't differentiate between midfielders I don't believe, I think the categories are key forward, medium forward, midfielder, medium back, key back - ruckman may also be split off from mids as their own category. So Johanneson is ranked in top 10% of medium defenders while Bont is ranked at around the 60tg percentile for mids (I think) which is probably right considering he wasn't that great in 2017.

Edited by Dr. Gonzo
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


While stats can be helpful, as previously mentioned the interpretation can become very subjective and depends on the boundaries.

While I really enjoy AFL and have an interest in most teams, there is really only one team, the Demons! Demonland generally gives a pretty good guide to who is our best 22 and who is playing well, other than the odd bias towards/against a particular player, which is often funny to read!

But for now, screw the stats, I can’t wait to see:

Hogan

Petracca

Brayshaw

Salem

Gawn

Hibberd

after full preseasons. With a reasonable draw and fingers crossed a good run with injuries, it looms as a terrific year!

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 01/02/2018 at 11:15 PM, It's Time said:

You’ve got to read the context. Elite means the top 10% in their designated position over the previous 2 seasons not 1.

I don’t know how specific they get. Eg Inside Onballer v Outside onballer v midfielder (ie this could be a wing). Wonder if they divide half forwards into categories like High HF v Defensive HF. 

I’d say Johansen is only assessed against other attacking HB’s  and had an incredible 2016 with a Norm whereas Bontempelli is competing to be top 10% of all inside onballers. I can see that result. However I’m dazed and confused by the Bont not even being above average just average  I guess they are stats based and his stats were probably down this year  

Track would be competing against high and goal kicking HF’s whereas Clarry is competing against all in and under midfielders over the past 2 seasons. I can see that. 

Let me just add that having said all the above  I think most of their rankings are totally stuffed. Joel Selwood isn’t elite Jeremy Howe is.  You can go on and on. I’ve never rated their ranking system. 

Jeremy Howe isn't elite compared to Joel Selwood, that is ridiculous. Howe is elite compared to other running defenders. I would wager that champion data having everything broken down into smaller categories or defensive back, loose man et cetera... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Josh said:

Jeremy Howe isn't elite compared to Joel Selwood, that is ridiculous. Howe is elite compared to other running defenders. I would wager that champion data having everything broken down into smaller categories or defensive back, loose man et cetera... 

That’s the point of what I wrote. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 01/02/2018 at 7:06 PM, brendan said:

That’s a very strange list, how do they come up with this crap any wonder no one takes them seriously 

 

Except the clubs who pay bucket loads for their data. But what would they know?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Talent isn't everything-just ask Rhonda Burchmore.

Edited by Biffen
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/6/2018 at 6:09 AM, Josh said:

Jeremy Howe isn't elite compared to Joel Selwood, that is ridiculous. Howe is elite compared to other running defenders. I would wager that champion data having everything broken down into smaller categories or defensive back, loose man et cetera... 

I picked up the latest AFL Prospectus on Tuesday, for me it's must-read material before each season and has been for the last several years.

In regards to positions, they have actually broken them down into General Defender, Key Defender, Mid, Wing, Ruckman, General Forward, Mid-Forward, Key Forward.

There's a piece by Troy Luff on the change in gamestyles over the last couple of years and a particular focus on what Richmond did last year. He makes a comment in regards to the two most asked questions they often get at Champion Data - the most asked is "what's the most important statistic" and his response is "Points For" - that might appease some of the statistical luddites ;)

Edited by Dr. Gonzo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    DEPTH CHARGE by Whispering Jack

    The jubilation on the coach’s face as he danced a celebratory jig by the playing bench after the final siren sounded to record his team’s four-point victory over the Demons when the teams last met, said it all.    On that rainy Friday night at the Adelaide Oval, Ken Hinkley’s young midfield secured much more than four points on offer. The victory over one of the big dogs of the competition after a succession of wins over some of its lesser lights gave his team respect and validation fo

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 5

    TRAINING: Monday 25th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Demon Dynasty & Kev Martin were trackside at Gosch's Paddock today to bring you their observations from training. DEMON DYNASTY'S TRAINING OBSERVATIONS Kade Chandler's left knee heavily strapped. BBB, Spargs & Jake Lever also in rehab group. Jake Bowey solo running separate kicking/sprint/agility drills. Super fine morning / early arvo at Gosch's for the boys to blow out some cobwebs. Choco initially had the light duties / rehab group

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    HIBERNATING by KC from Casey

    When they locked up the rooms for summer at the end of last year’s football season, the rooms gathered cobwebs, the atmosphere became dense and the place developed a sleepy feel. They opened up the rooms to let Casey out to play on Sunday but the team was still hibernating and they missed the bulk of the opening quarter. By the time they worked out it was game on, their opponents from Box Hill had accumulated five goals and, if the game wasn’t over, it might as well have been. For a se

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    A FORK IN THE HAWK by George on the Outer

    For too long in the past, Demon fans became habitually sick and tired of watching the Hawks hand out thrashings to their side. But Melbourne’s empahtic 55-point win at the MCG on Saturday has truly put a fork in the Hawk and turned that history well and truly on its head. The Demons have now won nine of their last ten encounters with the other result, a draw.     And like a fork, it was the multi-pronged options that Melbourne had all across the ground.  It certainly helped that Hawthorn

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports 8

    PREGAME: Rd 03 vs Port Adelaide

    The Demons head on the road for the next 2 weeks as they travel to Adelaide to play Port on Saturday and then have a 5 Day break before facing the Crows in the Gather Round. With injuries to May and Lever who comes in and who goes out?

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 262

    PODCAST: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Monday, 25th March @ 8:30pm. Join George, Binman & I as we analyse the Demons victory at the MCG against the Hawks in the Round 02. You questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show. If you would like to leave us a voicemail please call 03 9016 3666 and don't worry no body answers so you don't have to talk to a human. Listen & Chat

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 46

    VOTES: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    Last week Steven May took the lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Jack Viney. Clayton Oliver & Max Gawn round out the Top 4. Your votes for the win/loss against/to the Hawks. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 50

    POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demons cruised to an easy 55 point win over the Hawks at the MCG but but paid a heavy toll on the injury front with Steven May & Jake Lever possibly sidelined for a number of weeks.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 357

    GAMEDAY: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    It's Game Day and after mixed results in the first two weeks of the season the Demons have the opportunity to capitalise on their good form last week when they take on the Hawks at the MCG today.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 437
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

  • Podcast 

  • Podcast 

  • Podcast Stream 


    Open Stream in
    New Window
        TuneIn    Opens in New Tab
  • Support Demonland  



  • 2021 Premiership  

  • Social Media 

  • Non MFC Games  

    NON-MFC: Round 03

    Discussion of all the other games that don't involve the Demons in Round 03 ... READ MORE

    Demonland | Round 03

  • Match Preview      

    DEPTH CHARGE by Whispering Jack

    The jubilation on the coach’s face as he danced a celebratory jig by the playing bench after the final siren sounded to record his team’s four-point victory over the Demons when the teams last met, said it all ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 27

  • Latest Podcast      

    PODCAST: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The boys dissected the clinical thrashing of Hawks praising the immense performance of Christian Petracca whilst lamenting the injury toll to our defensive unit ... LISTEN

    Demonland | March 26

  • Training  

    Monday, 25th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Demon Dynasty & Kev Martin were trackside at Gosch's Paddock today to bring you their observations from training ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 25

  • Casey Report      

    HIBERNATING by KC from Casey

    When they locked up the rooms for summer at the end of last year’s football season, the rooms gathered cobwebs, the atmosphere became dense and the place developed a sleepy feel. They opened up the rooms to let Casey out to play on Sunday but the team was still hibernating and they missed the bulk of the opening quarter ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 25

  • PreGame      

    PREGAME: Rd 03 vs Port Adelaide

    The Demons head out on the road for the next 2 weeks as they travel to Adelaide to play Port on Saturday and then have a 5 Day break before facing the Crows in Gather Round. With injuries to May and Lever who comes in and who goes out? ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 28

  • Match Report      

    A FORK IN THE HAWK by George on the Outer

    For too long in the past, Demon fans became habitually sick and tired of watching the Hawks hand out thrashings to their side. But Melbourne’s empahtic 55-point win at the MCG on Saturday has truly put a fork in the Hawk and turned that history well and truly on its head ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Post Game      

    POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demons cruised to an easy 55 point win over the Hawks at the MCG but but paid a heavy toll on the injury front with Steven May & Jake Lever possibly sidelined for a number of weeks ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Votes      

    VOTES: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    Last week Steven May took the lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Jack Viney. Clayton Oliver & Max Gawn round out the Top 4. Your votes for the win/loss against/to the Hawks. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Game Day      

    GAMEDAY: Round 02 vs Hawthorn

    It's Game Day and after mixed results in the first two weeks of the season the Demons have the opportunity to capitalise on their good form last week when they take on the Hawks at the MCG today ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Training  

    Friday, 22nd March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatcher Kev Martin and I attended the Captain's Run at Gosch's Paddock on this lovely sunny morning to bring you the following observations from the training session ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 22

  • Training  

    Tuesday, 19th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin & Walking Civil War attended Tuesday morning's training session at Gosch's Paddock to bring you the following observations ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 19

  • Training  

    Saturday, 16th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin and Dee Zephyr wandered down to Gosch's Paddock on Saturday morning to bring you their observations from the Captain's Run in the lead up to Sunday's Round One match against the Bulldogs ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 16

  • Farewell  

    Angus Brayshaw Retires

    After 167 games including the drought breaking Premiership Angus Brayshaw has made the heart breaking decision to medically retire from football as a result of a series of serious head knocks over his nearly decade of footy. We wish Gus all the best and he'll always be a hero at Demonland ... READ MORE

    Demonland | February 22

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Koltyn Tholstrup Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club’s newest recruit Koltyn Tholstrup to have a chat about his journey from the farm to the Demons, his first few weeks of preseason training, which Dees have impressed him on the track and his aspirations of playing Round 1 ... LISTEN

    Demonland | December 14

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Jason Taylor Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club's National Recruitment Manager Jason Taylor to have a chat about our Trade and Draft period, our newest recruits, our recent recruits who have yet to debut as well as those father son prospects on the horizon ... LISTEN

    Demonland | November 27

  • Next Match 

    .

    Round 03

       vs   

    Saturday 30th March 2024
    @ 07:30pm (AO)

  • MFC Forum  

  • Match Previews & Reports  

  • Training Forum  

  • AFLW Forum  

  • 2024 Player Sponsorship

  • Topics

  • Injury List  


      PLAYER INJURY LENGTH
    Jake Lever Knee Test
    Clayton Oliver Hand Test
    Oliver Sestan Concussion Test
    Steven May Ribs 1 Week
    Lachie Hunter Calf 1 Week
    Daniel Turner Hip 2-3 Weeks
    Charlie Spargo Achilles 2-4 Weeks
    Shane McAdam Hamstring 3-5 Weeks
    Jake Bowey Shoulder 7 Weeks
    Jake Melksham ACL 12-14 Weeks
    Joel Smith Suspension TBA

  • Player of the Year  


        PLAYER VOTES
    1 Christian Petracca 27
    2 Steven May 25
    3 Max Gawn 21
    4 Jack Viney 20
    5 Bayley Fritsch 19
    6 Clayton Oliver 18
    7 Christian Salem 12
    8 Blake Howes 11
    9 Jack Billings 10
    9 Alex Neal-Bullen 10

        FULL TABLE
  • Demonland Interviews 



  • Upcoming Events 

×
×
  • Create New...