Jump to content

Discussion on recent allegations about the use of illicit drugs in football is forbidden
  • IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

    Posting unsubstantiated rumours on this website is strictly forbidden.

    Demonland has made the difficult decision to not permit this platform to be used to discuss & debate the off-field issues relating to the Melbourne Football Club including matters currently being litigated between the Club & former Board members, board elections, the issue of illicit drugs in footy, the culture at the club & the personal issues & allegations against some of our players & officials ...

    We do not take these issues & this decision lightly & of course we believe that these serious matters affecting the club we love & are so passionate about are worthy of discussion & debate & I wish we could provide a place where these matters can be discussed in a civil & respectful manner.

    However these discussions unfortunately invariably devolve into areas that may be defamatory, libelous, spread unsubstantiated rumours & can effect the mental health of those involved. Even discussion & debate of known facts or media reports can lead to finger pointing, blame & personal attacks.

    The repercussion is that these discussions can open this website, it’s owners & it’s users to legal action & may result in this website being forced to shutdown.

    Our moderating team are all volunteers & cannot moderate the forum 24/7 & as a consequence problematic content that contravenes our rules & standards may go unnoticed for some time before it can be removed.

    We reserve the right to delete posts that offend against our above policy & indeed, to ban posters who are repeat offenders or who breach our code of conduct.

    WE HAVE BUILT A FANTASTIC ONLINE COMMUNITY AT DEMONLAND OVER THE PAST 23 YEARS & WE WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO BE ABLE TO DISCUSS THE CLUB WE LOVE & ARE SO PASSIONATE ABOUT.

    Thank you for your continued support & understanding. Go Dees.


An interesting listen of an outsider's perspective of our list


grazman

Recommended Posts

Normally I'm a glass half empty kind of fella,  except when it comes to footy and especially our prospects in the preseason. I have tended towards a more sanguine approach of our upcoming fortunes  often dismissing the pessimistic forecasts of independent observers as being ill informed or waiting to be discredited (like any 'normal' football supporter does).  I've been burnt over the last decade as invariably they were right and I was wrong.  What makes the situation a little different now is the large amount of chatter about our improved prospects.  

One example that I came across recently was when I listened to one of my favourite AFL podcasts (Junktime) which was recorded just before the draft. 

https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/junktime-afl-podcast-with-adam-123464/episodes/pre-draft-2017-with-former-afl-23371913

 Craig Coombes (ex AFL recruiter for Port who also worked at Hawthorn as a scout/spy as well) spoke glowing of our prospects. He's on the podcast from about the 29 minute mark for those of you not into this type of comedy.

He was being asked about the lists as they stand.  He has a formula that he uses based on 1-4 year players on the list with a differential applied to those that have played 15+ games and those that are in the best 22.  He gives them a score out of 10. 

In a nutshell he had Melbourne ranked first for development (10/10)  and can see us doing a  Bulldogs or Richmond this season.  He had us with twenty  1-4 year players with ten 15+ games of these he has assessed that 8 are in our best 22. (I’m guessing here he’s talking about Oliver, Hogan, Brayshaw, Petracca, Hunt, Salem Lever,  and you can raffle the rest)    Yes, confirmation bias here is a dangerous thing, but it’s interesting that a lot of non- Melbourne people are being very bullish about us (which I genuinely can't recall having happened for well over a decade) the same types that when we were crap- told us in no uncertain terms we were crap- so there maybe something in this.

I think we have some players who will stamp themselves as being genuinely elite in the next 12-18 months and I'm still a blue sky junkie when it comes to guys like Joel Smith and Sam Weideman.  Anyway I always think it’s interesting when a complete outsider with AFL experience is so bullish about us.  As the man in the hat would say.. 'do yourself a favour'.

Edited by grazman
  • Like 13
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good point D11. However, at the beginning of the respective years, few would say that those two teams had no chance whatsoever of winning a flag. No one for the past decade would have even entertained a sliver of hope that the Dees could win one - until now (maybe). 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Didn’t Voss say when he was coaching that we would be the next superpower team or something like that and look what happened. 

Its nice when people thInk we are going to be a great team but let’s see what they produce on the field first as we all know when expectations are high how disappointing our team can be. 

Time will tell. 

Edited by DemonOX
  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting discussion, and no doubt the list has improved, but what still concerns me is the way the same list of players took the foot off the gas in the last 2 rounds of 2016 and 2017

Attitude will determine how far this club goes. 

This club is famous for talking tough before a job is done

nobody rates The MFC, we are still laughed at by opposition supporters

SEN had the Demon thread up on their facebook page yesterday. Interesting read

goodluck Simon. 2018 could make or break you....

  • Like 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Demons11 said:

The only issue I see with these predictions, is that none of these experts would have picked Tigers or the Bulldogs to win a flag 

I don't think picking a team to win the flag is the point.  Rather it is picking teams which are in a strong position to do so. After that random factors like run with injury (and when) etc. play a big part.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites


yeah I remember in 2010/2011 when we were going to be the next superpower or "they're gonna be something"

the thing that is different is that back then, people thought early draft picks equaled success. Dees had the pick of the draft before GC and GWS came in so everyone thought we would be a good team.  Shows how intelligent the media are!

now we are talking about young players that have shown elite potential on the field which gives me real hope. and the club has some stability for once.  We haven't sacked a coach since Neeld.  certainly our most stable period since Daniher

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Interesting discussion, and no doubt the list has improved, but what still concerns me is the way the same list of players took the foot off the gas in the last 2 rounds of 2016 and 2017

Attitude will determine how far this club goes. 

This club is famous for talking tough before a job is done

nobody rates The MFC, we are still laughed at by opposition supporters

SEN had the Demon thread up on their facebook page yesterday. Interesting read

goodluck Simon. 2018 could make or break you....

I don’t think our fade outs these past two seasons is an “attitude” issue, more a reflection of the age group where our talent lies. 

Our young core of very talented players can beat anyone, but until they’re physically and mentally matured they have struggled to maintain it into spring.

That we’ve been mid table with the least experienced list indicates talent, but hitting the physical limits of youth. The Tigers age profile also highlights the value of a physically mature list...

Edited by PaulRB
  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Demons11 said:

The only issue I see with these predictions, is that none of these experts would have picked Tigers or the Bulldogs to win a flag 

Agree. It comes down to attitude and application and I'm not sure that MFC has that. If you look at the player list and potential there is no way anyone would have picked the Tigers back in Jan 2017.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DubDee said:

yeah I remember in 2010/2011 when we were going to be the next superpower or "they're gonna be something"

the thing that is different is that back then, people thought early draft picks equaled success. Dees had the pick of the draft before GC and GWS came in so everyone thought we would be a good team.  Shows how intelligent the media are!

now we are talking about young players that have shown elite potential on the field which gives me real hope. and the club has some stability for once.  We haven't sacked a coach since Neeld.  certainly our most stable period since Daniher

i actually think that it was a false dawn and a terrible time to be down the bottom of the ladder when those teams were due to come in

people think they sucked the guts out of two drafts, but it was actually significantly more than that

the supposed best 17 year olds were removed from the draft as both gc17 and gw$ in 2009 and 2010 had priority access

gc17 didn't choose all that wisely - Luke Russell, Maverick Weller, Taylor Hine, Josh Toy, Matt Shaw, Piers Flanagan, Hayden Jolly, Alex Keath, Jack Hutchins, Tom Nicholls, Brandon Matera, Trent McKenzie

only six of those remain on senior afl lists, i think, a few as re-rookied players this year?

gw$ didn't do much better in terms of players still in the system some seven or so years later - Jeremy Cameron, Adam Treloar, Dylan Shiel, Nathan Wilson, Jack Hombsch, Tom Bugg, Tim Golds, Sam Darley, Josh Growden, Jarrod Harding, Simon Tunbridge, Gerard Ugle - but the quality of those first four or so players is miles better than those picked by gc17, including three of the top 50 or so players in the competition in the first three mentioned

ermma quayle article from 2015: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/the-gold-coast-and-gws-17yearolds-where-are-they-now-20151202-gldloq.html

Edited by DemonAndrew
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think our age profile is just getting to a point that will give us the best chance to make and be successful in finals.

Currently we have 8 players with +100 games experience (with 3 more to reach that point before the middle of the season)

There are 9 players between 50 & 100 games experience, plus another 9 players poised the go past 50 games well before finals time.

All in all 26 players with +50 games experience before finals time and 11 of those with over 100 games experience.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Injuries are critical each year. For every team.

Even though I loathed our appalling finish to last season, I'm actually surprised we managed to win so many games (and it should've been more) given the injuries and suspensions we had to endure for big chunks of the season: Gawn, Viney, Lewis, Jones, Hogan, Smith (x2), Salem, Bugg, Brayshaw, Garland, Vince, Spencer, Watts etc. It was ridiculous.

Hats off to Goodwin for not making excuses for our performances. We did however have a lot of important players out throughout the season - even our injury toll within games was bad.

With a bit better luck on the injury front, we just have to be pushing for the top 6 or so. After all, we were very competitive last year with a younger, injury depleted list - it's more experienced and Jake Lever is now wearing the red and the blue.  

 

Edited by Ron Burgundy
  • Like 9
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

i actually think that it was a false dawn and a terrible time to be down the bottom of the ladder when those teams were due to come in

people think they sucked the guts out of two drafts, but it was actually significantly more than that

the supposed best 17 year olds were removed from the draft as both gc17 and gw$ in 2009 and 2010 had priority access

gc17 didn't choose all that wisely - Luke Russell, Maverick Weller, Taylor Hine, Josh Toy, Matt Shaw, Piers Flanagan, Hayden Jolly, Alex Keath, Jack Hutchins, Tom Nicholls, Brandon Matera, Trent McKenzie

only six of those remain on senior afl lists, i think, a few as re-rookied players this year?

gw$ didn't do much better in terms of players still in the system some seven or so years later - Jeremy Cameron, Adam Treloar, Dylan Shiel, Nathan Wilson, Jack Hombsch, Tom Bugg, Tim Golds, Sam Darley, Josh Growden, Jarrod Harding, Simon Tunbridge, Gerard Ugle - but the quality of those first four or so players is miles better than those picked by gc17, including three of the top 50 or so players in the competition in the first three mentioned

ermma quayle article from 2015: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/the-gold-coast-and-gws-17yearolds-where-are-they-now-20151202-gldloq.html

all relevant points but we only have ourselves to blame.  we had early picks in 2007 and 2008 too and screwed them up.  anyway best to move on!  :-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Demons11 said:

The only issue I see with these predictions, is that none of these experts would have picked Tigers or the Bulldogs to win a flag 

True but.... the rules of the game have changed. I don't think this has been factored in enough. Teams have an extra week off before finals. This means a whole bunch of things including getting players refreshed or back from injury etc. Important when you are struggling desperately to make finals.

The Toiges and Dogs had the best Septembers. The Toiges defence conceded 5, 8 and 9 goals in finals. Quite extraordinary. There was  alot of focus on their forwards but the defence for me won it.

I thin what it means now is that making the finals gives everyone a much better chance of winning a flag. It's why I was so dirty on missing the finals. You just never know. Particularly in such an even year.

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites


4 hours ago, Demons11 said:

The only issue I see with these predictions, is that none of these experts would have picked Tigers or the Bulldogs to win a flag 

This is just list assessment. Nowadays there are a lot of other factors to take into consideration when assessing Premiers and some of them, like injuries can't be predicted. 

1. Injuries. 

The Toigs had a dream run with injuries this year. The year before the Doggies ended up with almost a full list for the finals and the benefit of the first bye for returning players. In 2005 the Swans only played 26 players the whole season. We had a shocker with injuries and suspensions and were still very close. These outs also put a huge extra workload on the young uninjured players who couldn't be managed ideally and not surprisingly tired by the end of the season.  Injuries during the GF. eg 2016 Franklin was injured in first 4 minutes. Parker taken out at the first centre bounce and Hannebery taken out in the critical last 7 minutes.  

2. Coaching.

GWS are beginning to show that you can have an elite list but nowadays need an elite coaching panel that runs deep. I have a feeling if we end up facing them in finals or the big one our coaching panel will be significantly stronger and deeper. It's not just Goodwin but also McCartney and Jennings. They proved themselves in 2017 winning more centre clearances (the most strategic part of the gameplan) than they lost during that 8 week period when we didn't have a ruckman.

3. Fixture. 

The Toigs had a dream fixture last year which left them with a significant record by the half way mark. We all know what ours was like. 

4. Umpiring

Hopefully we won't see anything like the advantage Doggies received in 2016 including +20 frees in the GF. The equivalent of a significant extra player. Plus several goals from howler decisions. 

Edited by It's Time
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

True but.... the rules of the game have changed. I don't think this has been factored in enough. Teams have an extra week off before finals. This means a whole bunch of things including getting players refreshed or back from injury etc. Important when you are struggling desperately to make finals.

The Toiges and Dogs had the best Septembers. The Toiges defence conceded 5, 8 and 9 goals in finals. Quite extraordinary. There was  alot of focus on their forwards but the defence for me won it.

I thin what it means now is that making the finals gives everyone a much better chance of winning a flag. It's why I was so dirty on missing the finals. You just never know. Particularly in such an even year.

 

Interesting theory. Never seen a team win a Premiership when they haven't made the finals. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, It's Time said:

Interesting theory. Never seen a team win a Premiership when they haven't made the finals. 

Ha ha good pick up! I mean that everyone has a much more even chance to win a flag - in the past the top 4 won the bulk of the flags....but you knew that :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Ha ha good pick up! I mean that everyone has a much more even chance to win a flag - in the past the top 4 won the bulk of the flags....but you knew that :)

Yep and agree. Just trying to keep up the low end pettiness that is supposed to be humour on here. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Interesting discussion, and no doubt the list has improved, but what still concerns me is the way the same list of players took the foot off the gas in the last 2 rounds of 2016 and 2017

Took the foot off the gas or ran out of petrol?  It's a young list and a long season.  It's hard in the backend of the season when you are relying on a core group who only have one or two preseasons under their belt. I think this year with a strong core of players with 3 or 4 preseasons under their belt now it will be different.

Edited by grazman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Injuries are critical each year. For every team.

Even though I loathed our appalling finish to last season, I'm actually surprised we managed to win so many games (and it should've been more) given the injuries and suspensions we had to endure for big chunks of the season: Gawn, Viney, Lewis, Jones, Hogan, Smith (x2), Salem, Bugg, Brayshaw, Garland, Vince, Spencer, Watts etc. It was ridiculous.

Hats off to Goodwin for not making excuses for our performances. We did however have a lot of important players out throughout the season - even our injury toll within games was bad.

With a bit better luck on the injury front, we just have to be pushing for the top 6 or so. After all, we were very competitive last year with a younger, injury depleted list - it's now more experienced and Jake Lever is now wearing the red and the blue.  

 

With a bit of luck we coulda/shoulda won 14-15 games last season. Adding Lever along with natural improvement and some luck top 4 inst out of the question.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Last year was there for the taking. I wasn't upset as some at as not making it as we still have a lot of growing up to do but just disappointed in the fact that I think anyone would back themselves against won it.

The thing about the Tigers list compared to ours is they do have:

- A two time Coleman Medalist and two time All-Australian at full forward

- Two Brownlow Medalists running through the midfield

- A 4 time All Australian centre half back who I think is the best player in the game.

They have plenty in the right age bracket around them and solid role players that they should have been better for longer and still should be up and about for a while.

I like our list and confident in the talent we have but I can only hope we unleash some stars like the Tigers have produced.

For us to go anywhere we need Jesse to become the star we think he is and our players who haven't really broken out yet with "potential" (ugliest word in AFL) in Salem, Brayshaw, Weid, Stretch to really go next level

 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    DISCO INFERNO by Whispering Jack

    Two weeks ago, when the curtain came down on Melbourne’s game against the Brisbane Lions, the team trudged off the MCG looking tired and despondent at the end of a tough run of games played in quick succession. In the days that followed, the fans wanted answers about their team’s lamentable performance that night and foremost among their concerns was whether the loss was a one off result of fatigue or was it due to other factor(s) of far greater consequence.  As it turns out, the answer to

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 6

    TIGERS PUNT CASEY by KC from Casey

    The afternoon atmosphere at the Swinburne Centre was somewhat surreal as the game between Richmond VFL and the Casey Demons unfolded on what was really a normal work day for most Melburnians. The Yarra Park precinct marched to the rhythm of city life, the trains rolled by, pedestrians walked by with their dogs and the traffic on Punt Road and Brunton Avenue swirled past while inside the arena, a football battle ensued. And what a battle it was? The Tigers came in with a record of two wins f

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    PREGAME: Rd 08 vs Geelong

    After returning to the winners list the Demons have a 10 day break until they face the unbeaten Cats at the MCG on Saturday Night. Who comes in and who goes out for this crucial match?

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 108

    PODCAST: Rd 07 vs Richmond

    The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Monday, 29th April @ 8:30pm. Join George, Binman & I as we analyse the Demons victory at the MCG against the Tigers in the Round 07. You questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show. If you would like to leave us a voicemail please call 03 9016 3666 and don't worry no body answers so you don't have to talk to a human. Listen & Chat

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 10

    VOTES: Rd 07 vs Richmond

    Last week Captain Max Gawn overtook reigning champion Christian Petracca in the Demonland Player of the Year Award. Steven May, Jack Viney & Alex Neal-Bullen make up the Top 5. Your votes for the win against the Tigers. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 54

    POSTGAME: Rd 07 vs Richmond

    The Demons put their foot down after half time to notch up a clinical win by 43 points over the Tigers at the MCG on ANZAC Eve keeping touch with the Top 4.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 331

    GAMEDAY: Rd 07 vs Richmond

    It's Game Day and the Demons once again open the round of football with their annual clash against Richmond on ANZAC Eve. The Tigers, coached by former Dees champion and Premiership assistant coach Adem Yze have a plethora of stars missing due to injury but beware the wounded Tiger. The Dees will have to be switched on tonight. A win will keep them in the hunt for the Top 4 whilst a loss could see them fall out of the 8 for the first time since 2020.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 683

    TRAINING: Tuesday 23rd April 2024

    Demonland Trackwatcher Kev Martin ventured down to Gosch's Paddock to bring you his observations from this morning's Captain's Run including some hints at the changes for our ANZAC Eve clash against the Tigers. Sunny, though a touch windy, this morning, 23 of them no emergencies.  Forwards out first. Harrison Petty, JvR, Jack Billings, Kade Chandler, Kozzy, Bayley Fritsch, and coach Stafford.  The backs join them, Steven May, Jake Lever, Woey, Judd McVee, Blake Howes, Tom McDonald

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    OOZEE by The Oracle

    There’s a touch of irony in the fact that Adem Yze played his first game for Melbourne in Round 13, 1995 against the club he now coaches. For that game, he wore the number 44 guernsey and got six touches in a game the team won by 11 points.  The man whose first name was often misspelled, soon changed to the number 13 and it turned out lucky for him. He became a highly revered Demon with a record of 271 games during which his presence was acknowledged by the fans with the chant of “Oozee” wh

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews 3
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

×
×
  • Create New...