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Demonland

Preseason Training - Week commencing 4/12/17

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4 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Trac is not a fan of the just running side of training methinks but knows he has to do the work, each session he is looking better and better

As for the Lever/Omac  before Xmas any one on one drills are half powered unless it is Jones/ Brayshaw or Gawn/Oliver   they can't help themselves 

I had the same impression of Trac.  He only needs to look at Oliver and see the difference one preseason can make. 

Sounds like Oliver and Brayshaw are becoming really tough cookies!  Like it!

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4 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

Finally. We need him to step up and IMO he is best suited to playing midfield. If he can put it together, he could be the outside polish we need.

He no longer has a role back there are better available. Its either mid or Casey IMO I agree he has to make the grade Time will tell

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59 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

2nd last in the group who did the time trial but not miles behind guys like Jetta and Lewis. 

Not saying Balic will do the same but it was around this  time last year that Clarry was battling and he worked his backside off and won the B+F. I'd say Balic is at a stage where if he works really hard and stays fit that he'll have caught up to a decent level by the time the games come.

He lost his base fitness when he had time off, the fitness staff know every player, assume he is on a plan, he is with main group and not rehab, so assume there is no issue

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42 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

He lost his base fitness when he had time off, the fitness staff know every player, assume he is on a plan, he is with main group and not rehab, so assume there is no issue

I reckon you're spot on the money with Balic. He's coming from a long way back in terms of fitness but he'll get the base quicker by training with the regular guys ie/ it's better he's not in rehab).

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5 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

As remarkable as it sounds, Pedersen could be hitting his peak at 30/31.

Do you reckon Pedo can kick 45 goals this coming season? He seems ultra-motivated across the past 12 months and this could be the year. Pedo is a game changer.

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59 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Do you reckon Pedo can kick 45 goals this coming season? He seems ultra-motivated across the past 12 months and this could be the year. Pedo is a game changer.

Excuse the intrusion...

Hogan has never kicked 45 goals in a season and Pedersen has never got close to Hogan's level.

Pedersen has also never kicked 4 goals in a game.

I suggest the answer to your question is "highly unlikely".

I don't have Pedersen in my best 22, so perhaps I shouldn't have intruded :)

Edited by ProDee
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It's not how many goals Pedersen can score in the season.

It's whether or not his contribution to the team, wherever he plays, could add more than the alternative selection to our number of wins and percentage over 22 games, either by scoring or defending. Given our percentage mishap this year, more wins and greater winning margins will make a difference.

And given his form this year, he deserves to be considered in any discussion on best 22 and his claims should not be so easily dismissed. Watts is gone, Weideman is still a work in progress and AVB is not yet fully recovered. There is a need for another tall to support Hogan.

 

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3 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Trac is not a fan of the just running side of training methinks but knows he has to do the work, each session he is looking better and better

 

Saty, I know it's your opinion but not really his choice if he is a fan of the running or not, you want to be the best then you need to do it.

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39 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

Saty, I know it's your opinion but not really his choice if he is a fan of the running or not, you want to be the best then you need to do it.

Agreed, he is not a fan, but he is working really hard on it, he was trailing Harmes,  ANB etc first week back, now keeping paceas mentioned

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6 hours ago, jnrmac said:

The video of Oscar and lever was the opposite ....

 

6 hours ago, ProDee said:

If I'm not mistaken that video you're referencing is a drill where one player makes not much more than a token effort to restrict his opponent.  It's not really contested work.

In isolation that clip shouldn't be measured against intent.  Having been to a number of training sessions over the years there's a number of those types of positioning drills.

 

6 hours ago, Cards13 said:

It was 1 contest of 1 drill and a terrible kick, don’t read too much into it.

 

edit: ^ as he said.

 

6 hours ago, Demonland said:

Agreed. The kick fell well short. Lever just read it alot better so make of that what you will.

I think some here just can’t resist having a go at Oscar.  

4 hours ago, jackaub said:

He no longer has a role back there are better available. Its either mid or Casey IMO I agree he has to make the grade Time will tell

He / him......presumably referring to Salem?

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7 minutes ago, monoccular said:

 

I think some here just can’t resist having a go at Oscar.  

My comments weren't meant as a slight on Oscar. I just happen to think Lever is a class above. Oscar improved throughout the year and I expect he will continue to improve. Lever, I believe, is on another level.

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7 hours ago, Demonland said:

Is there an open training tomorrow (Wednesday)? The official site only has Monday and Friday listed like they did last week but there was an open Wednesday session last week.

They might do some training on Gosch's but its not technically 'Open' since they havent advertised it. The young/new players are also away on a 3 day camping/getting to know each other trip out the bush somewhere, so it won't be a big session.

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7 hours ago, Drunkn167 said:

They might do some training on Gosch's but its not technically 'Open' since they havent advertised it. The young/new players are also away on a 3 day camping/getting to know each other trip out the bush somewhere, so it won't be a big session.

Hopefully no bricks involved.

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16 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

As remarkable as it sounds, Pedersen could be hitting his peak at 30/31.

I suggested that this may turn out to be the case before the beginning of last season. A late starter with plenty of time off for injuries who has been improving year on year in the red and blue.

It's worth also noting that he didn't face any injury concerns last year after surgery in the off-season (and a heavy senior work-load), and it seems (according to the training reports and photos) that he's reaching peak physical condition for the first time in his career - whether that's due to greater commitment, a longer, sustained period out of rehab, or, the re-modelling of his body shape (though probably a combination of each).

On that last point, I find it highly intriguing that all of Hogan, Gawn and Pedders (our three primary talls beyond the defence - although it should be remembered that Pedo is only 193cm) have returned in a similar shape, slimmed-down but ultra-toned and fit - to me, a clear club directive and an obvious effort to increase their mobility and agility. The recruitment of Mark Bradtke only adds to the intrigue, and I get the sense that all three are being transformed into uber-utilities according to some new master-plan.

Posters are rightly questioning the top-heavy nature of a forward-line containing all of Hogan, Tmac - who is perhaps already a model for the new body shapes of above (but could do with some extra agility - specifically in relation to his turning circle and reaction times) - and Pedo, with the latter slipping out of projected contention due to I think historical prejudice and the real-life fact that he doesn't kick enough goals as a permanent forward. Yet, he really did impact last year, and I can't see us throwing that potential away.

But with Watts's departure, it clears the way for a bit of a rethink, and I've argued previously that we have an odd mix of small-to- mediums who play a bit taller, and talls who in effect lean toward the medium side. Pedo at the moment is the only one who I think can play tall tall up front (outside of Max when he shifts forward), as in can take a genuine pack-park and really out-muscle opponents, as well as also being the best of Hogan, Tomald and himself as regards to agility and applying forward pressure.

It makes for an interesting mix. Right now I foresee Gawn and Pedo interchanging ruck and FF duties, Hogan and Pedo mixing it up in CHF/roaming wing roles, and Tmac in a leading-marking Jack Gunston role as a medium-forward (hopefully maintaining his goal-kicking accuracy from last season), taking on Watt's role somewhat as the third mobile tall (with the mids and HHF's inc. Salem to take up the slack and more responsibility in terms of delivery).  But then how do you fit in the rest of our mediums and mid-forwards in the forward-line minus Garlett's slot as the only true pocket?

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Cards13 said:

Hopefully no bricks involved.

Don't stress this ones not the bootcamp

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12 hours ago, tiers said:

It's not how many goals Pedersen can score in the season.

It's whether or not his contribution to the team, wherever he plays, could add more than the alternative selection to our number of wins and percentage over 22 games, either by scoring or defending. Given our percentage mishap this year, more wins and greater winning margins will make a difference.

And given his form this year, he deserves to be considered in any discussion on best 22 and his claims should not be so easily dismissed. Watts is gone, Weideman is still a work in progress and AVB is not yet fully recovered. There is a need for another tall to support Hogan.

 

Who says his claims are "easily dismissed" ?  U either have a preference for a structure, depending on matchups and injury, or you don't. 

There's no way I'm playing all of Gawn, Tom McDonald, Hogan, and Pedersen through the forward line.  It won't be a structure Goodwin wants.  Pedersen misses for me. 

I'd also preference Weideman over Pedersen because he's the future.  His body hasn't been strong enough to compete at AFL level, but hopefully it will be after this preseason. 

But it's up to Pedersen.  If his form demands selection it will be hard to overlook him.  My money won't be on him lining up in round one if we have a full list to choose from. 

It's not "personal".

Edited by ProDee
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13 hours ago, ProDee said:

Excuse the intrusion...

Hogan has never kicked 45 goals in a season and Pedersen has never got close to Hogan's level.

Pedersen has also never kicked 4 goals in a game.

I suggest the answer to your question is "highly unlikely".

I don't have Pedersen in my best 22, so perhaps I shouldn't have intruded :)

Perhaps.....

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Amidst the Oscar talk, I wish to again express my concern without ‘potting’ him.

Whilst the Lever Vs O-Mac moment isn’t of any significance at this stage of pre-season, it does give me a bit of a sick feeling in the stomach.

Generally, posters are of the opinion that Oscar will be our ‘Gorilla defender’. But I want to ask how that can be the case given the way we defend as a back six? Aside from assigned tasks, our defenders are nearly almost always on the roll, covering different opponents, guarding space, pressing up aggressively and rebounding even more aggressively.

My concern is that Oscar’s lack of attribute diversity, athleticism, speed and reaction time is completely non-conducive to a modern day zone defence. This year proved that to be the case time and time again. If you’re a slow and athletically poor defender, you almost certainly have to have a strong intercept/spoiling game or be a smart ball reader who positions themselves really well. And Oscar is neither of those things either.

I understand he is ‘improving’ etc. But it doesn’t change the fact that he is not yet strong in any one given area of his game. And unless the Lever addition is going to mean a change to our zone play as a defensive unit, I can’t see how Oscar is going to be of any really benefit to the way we’ve been playing as a back six given how average/poor he is in many aspects of the game.

Or in short; if Oscar is being easily beaten in body-on-body drills against a player who many demonlanders thought to be poor in that area, then I’m concerned for Oscar’s future as a best 22 defender.

 

Edited by stevethemanjordan
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14 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Do you reckon Pedo can kick 45 goals this coming season? He seems ultra-motivated across the past 12 months and this could be the year. Pedo is a game changer.

30 goals would be a great effort.

I also question if we can fit Hogan, TMac and Pedo in the same forward line as it hasn't worked in the past. In saying this, I am sure it would work fine if they were all in form together.

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6 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Amidst the Oscar talk, I wish to again express my concern without ‘potting’ him.

Whilst the Lever Vs O-Mac moment isn’t of any significance at this stage of pre-season, it does give me a bit of a sick feeling in the stomach.

Generally, posters are of the opinion that Oscar will be our ‘Gorilla defender’. But I want to ask how that can be the case given the way we defend as a back six? Aside from assigned tasks, our defenders are nearly almost always on the roll, covering different opponents, guarding space, pressing up aggressively and rebounding even more aggressively.

My concern is that Oscar’s lack of attribute diversity, athleticism, speed and reaction time is completely non-conducive to a modern day zone defence. This year proved that to be the case time and time again. If you’re a slow and athletically poor defender, you almost certainly have to have a strong intercept/spoiling game or be a smart ball reader who positions themselves really well. And Oscar is neither of those things either.

I understand he is ‘improving’ etc. But it doesn’t change the fact that he is not yet strong in any one given area of his game. And unless the Lever addition is going to mean a change to our zone play as a defensive unit, I can’t see how Oscar is going to be of any really benefit to the way we’ve been playing as a back six given how average/poor he is in many aspects of the game.

Or in short; if Oscar is being easily beaten in body-on-body drills against a player who many demonlanders thought to be poor in that area, then I’m concerned for Oscar’s future as a best 22 defender.

 

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26 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Who says his claims are "easily dismissed" ?  U either have a preference for a structure, depending on matchups and injury, or you don't. 

There's no way I'm playing all of Gawn, Tom McDonald, Hogan, and Pedersen through the forward line.  It won't be a structure Goodwin wants.  Pedersen misses for me. 

I'd also preference Weideman over Pedersen because he's the future.  His body hasn't been strong enough to compete at AFL level, but hopefully it will be after this preseason. 

But it's up to Pedersen.  If his form demands selection it will be hard to overlook him.  My money won't be on him lining up in round one if we have a full list to choose from. 

It's not "personal".

Many would probably prefer Weid over Pedo, if and when he is ready, but I agree with those who think ‘gifting’ him games early 2017 was a mistake and may have cost us a game or so, thus finals. 

I hold out high hopes for him.

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37 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Amidst the Oscar talk, I wish to again express my concern without ‘potting’ him.

Whilst the Lever Vs O-Mac moment isn’t of any significance at this stage of pre-season, it does give me a bit of a sick feeling in the stomach.

Generally, posters are of the opinion that Oscar will be our ‘Gorilla defender’. But I want to ask how that can be the case given the way we defend as a back six? Aside from assigned tasks, our defenders are nearly almost always on the roll, covering different opponents, guarding space, pressing up aggressively and rebounding even more aggressively.

My concern is that Oscar’s lack of attribute diversity, athleticism, speed and reaction time is completely non-conducive to a modern day zone defence. This year proved that to be the case time and time again. If you’re a slow and athletically poor defender, you almost certainly have to have a strong intercept/spoiling game or be a smart ball reader who positions themselves really well. And Oscar is neither of those things either.

I understand he is ‘improving’ etc. But it doesn’t change the fact that he is not yet strong in any one given area of his game. And unless the Lever addition is going to mean a change to our zone play as a defensive unit, I can’t see how Oscar is going to be of any really benefit to the way we’ve been playing as a back six given how average/poor he is in many aspects of the game.

Or in short; if Oscar is being easily beaten in body-on-body drills against a player who many demonlanders thought to be poor in that area, then I’m concerned for Oscar’s future as a best 22 defender.

 

Of course you are.

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I must have missed this "footage" of Oscar's training drill failure vs Lever.  The footage I saw looked like a positioning drill more than a true one-on-one contest.

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