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DaveyDee

Ex-Demon Craig Cameron on the move again

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9 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

at the end of 2016 Richmond was in crisis, and undertook a total review and overhaul of their coaching panel, all areas of football operations, and made an explicit commitment to consciously, deliberately change the culture? That whole 'we took a good hard look at ourselves and the club has a completely different feel to it this year' line that we've heard hundreds of times all the way through 2017.

This is a very interesting assessment - "crisis" only in the minds of some fans that stood outside the confines of the club & that idiot Kevin Barlett. Barlett would be complaining about something even if the Tigers made the Grand Final - thats his job.

Politically, football clubs are a mine-field. Glad we dont have to experience that anymore - long may it continue.  

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26 minutes ago, DaveyDee said:

This is a very interesting assessment - "crisis" only in the minds of some fans that stood outside the confines of the club & that idiot Kevin Barlett. Barlett would be complaining about something even if the Tigers made the Grand Final - thats his job.

Politically, football clubs are a mine-field. Glad we dont have to experience that anymore - long may it continue.  

September 12, 2016 Richmond statement

10 week comprehensive review by external consultant.

New General Manager of Football (Neil Balme, no less).

Major restructure and increased status of recruiting and list management section.

Two assistant coaches sacked (Ross Smith - defence. Greg Mellor - forward)

Senior Development Coach Mark Williams sacked

Replaced the head of strength and conditioning.

Also worth noting they traded out one of their best players and Vice-captain, Brett Deledio.

 

Three years of token appearances and failures in finals, then an abject flop in 2016, with most of their best players being 25+ already and close to no variation or new appearances in the B&F boards for the last 5 years.

I ask, if that is Melbourne's situation in 2020, would it seem maybe just a bit like a genuine crisis?

 

 

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51 minutes ago, DaveyDee said:

This is a very interesting assessment - "crisis" only in the minds of some fans that stood outside the confines of the club & that idiot Kevin Barlett. Barlett would be complaining about something even if the Tigers made the Grand Final - thats his job.

Politically, football clubs are a mine-field. Glad we dont have to experience that anymore - long may it continue.  

Bartlett played in 403 Games, was part of 5 flags and was an AFL Senior Coach, now I don’t agree with everythng he spouts, but if he is an idiot what does that make you?

Hungry knows how Football Clubs work...

i think you Davey have an inside agenda

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6 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

September 12, 2016 Richmond statement

10 week comprehensive review by external consultant.

New General Manager of Football (Neil Balme, no less).

Major restructure and increased status of recruiting and list management section.

Two assistant coaches sacked (Ross Smith - defence. Greg Mellor - forward)

Senior Development Coach Mark Williams sacked

Replaced the head of strength and conditioning.

Also worth noting they traded out one of their best players and Vice-captain, Brett Deledio.

 

Three years of token appearances and failures in finals, then an abject flop in 2016, with most of their best players being 25+ already and close to no variation or new appearances in the B&F boards for the last 5 years.

I ask, if that is Melbourne's situation in 2020, would it seem maybe just a bit like a genuine crisis?

 

 

The reality. 

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9 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

The reality. 

The reality is a journey is started with the first step.  CAC started the process, he didn't finish it.  It was tracking nicely until he left and Richardson took over when it stagnated.  If you think Richmond went from duds to Premiers in one season of work you live in la-la land.

Anyway both sides presented, people can make up their own minds.  The reality is clearly that CAC was headhunted from Melbourne to Richmond, headhunted to GWS and now headhunted to GCS.  That's fact and not conjecture.  It suggests that people who have been in footy a very long time recognize his abilities.  His efforts were recognized by Gary March despite the fact he left several years ago.

If you know more it's a shame your great skills are restricted to a football forum rather than leading our chosen team to a long-awaited flag.

 

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41 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

September 12, 2016 Richmond statement

10 week comprehensive review by external consultant.

New General Manager of Football (Neil Balme, no less).

Major restructure and increased status of recruiting and list management section.

Two assistant coaches sacked (Ross Smith - defence. Greg Mellor - forward)

Senior Development Coach Mark Williams sacked

Replaced the head of strength and conditioning.

Also worth noting they traded out one of their best players and Vice-captain, Brett Deledio.

 

Three years of token appearances and failures in finals, then an abject flop in 2016, with most of their best players being 25+ already and close to no variation or new appearances in the B&F boards for the last 5 years.

I ask, if that is Melbourne's situation in 2020, would it seem maybe just a bit like a genuine crisis?

 

 

If you really want to get your football opinions from a padded press release, ok .-

Not sure you are across the "political aspects" of AFL football clubs.

Honestly, they are a minefield - ah the good old "extensive review".

The old "restructure of recruiting", ah Blair you need to do this, Francis you need to do this - ok all cool.

Ross & Greg dont get their contracts re-newed - OMG who the F are they, you need a higher profile coaches to grab the media headlines, lets go for Leppa and Carrecella.

Sure did trade Lids - what the hell where GWS thinking. Look at the deals Richmond got for Lids compared to the deal Hawks got for Lewis. Hell I would have traded Lids in the blink of an eye - Dusty was up the following year for FA they needed the room. Keep Lids and loose Dusty - interesting concept.  

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

If you know more it's a shame your great skills are restricted to a football forum rather than leading our chosen team to a long-awaited flag.

 

This is the sad thing about our club - the politicians, lawyers and media executives know more than the football people. 

Except when you put AFL approved CEO ( Professional AFL football Administrator)  and AFL hand picked and approved board in power - shivers look how we start to perform. Take the politics out of it - refuse to give the members and supporters a vote at their OWN AGM's - holly shivers looks what happens. 

How dumb are me and you ?? Yeah it was all our recruiters fault. 

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46 minutes ago, DaveyDee said:

This is the sad thing about our club - the politicians, lawyers and media executives know more than the football people. 

Except when you put AFL approved CEO ( Professional AFL football Administrator)  and AFL hand picked and approved board in power - shivers look how we start to perform. Take the politics out of it - refuse to give the members and supporters a vote at their OWN AGM's - holly shivers looks what happens. 

How dumb are me and you ?? Yeah it was all our recruiters fault. 

So, are you saying that the recruiters can take zero responsibility for the playing personnel coming in between 2007-2015?

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39 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

So, are you saying that the recruiters can take zero responsibility for the playing personnel coming in between 2007-2015?

No. 

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8 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

I rarely get things wrong when I do a "brilliant job", as you claimed CAC did.

Brilliant job taking into account the situation - but feel free to use only half the quote. 

Those little words "taking into account the situation" - not that important. 

Edited by DaveyDee

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1 minute ago, DaveyDee said:

Brilliant job taking into account the situation - but feel free to use only half the quote. 

Those little words "taking into account the situation" - not that important. 

That's the point that I am really struggling to understand, he didn't do a brilliant job, even when you take in to account the "situation".

I will give credit where it is due.  I just can't do it in this case, and am amazed that you can, not just with CAC, but PB too.

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3 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

That's the point that I am really struggling to understand, he didn't do a brilliant job, even when you take in to account the "situation".

I will give credit where it is due.  I just can't do it in this case, and am amazed that you can, not just with CAC, but PB too.

No problems we agree to disagree - easy 

I've always thought we were under finances and under resourced. We were writing cheques to pay off debt and play games at the MCG. Other clubs were writing cheques to invest into their football departments. 

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2 hours ago, DaveyDee said:

If you really want to get your football opinions from a padded press release, ok .-

Not sure you are across the "political aspects" of AFL football clubs.

Honestly, they are a minefield - ah the good old "extensive review".

The old "restructure of recruiting", ah Blair you need to do this, Francis you need to do this - ok all cool.

Ross & Greg dont get their contracts re-newed - OMG who the F are they, you need a higher profile coaches to grab the media headlines, lets go for Leppa and Carrecella.

Sure did trade Lids - what the hell where GWS thinking. Look at the deals Richmond got for Lids compared to the deal Hawks got for Lewis. Hell I would have traded Lids in the blink of an eye - Dusty was up the following year for FA they needed the room. Keep Lids and loose Dusty - interesting concept.  

 

 

You keep mentioning 'club politics a minefield' but seem to have missed that there may have been just a little bit of personal showboating and foot-in-the-door-for-glory talk from Gary March when he so proudly noted that Cameron's (and March's) era was what set up the glory now.

Seriously, do you have any actual evidence to support the claim of Craig Cameron's tenure at Richmond being the groundwork for their premiership success?

I've presented the alternate position, and supported it by noting that there was limited list development, and minimal results progress, and that the surge to success occurred only after Richmond engaged in a serious review which the club and players openly acknowledge had a major transformative effect.

So far all you've offered to support your claim of a 'brilliant job' by Cameron is that five years after he left a premiership was achieved by a list which was about 80% built before or after his tenure, under the direction of an almost entirely new coaching panel, supervised by a significantly changed board and club executive.

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3 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

You keep mentioning 'club politics a minefield' but seem to have missed that there may have been just a little bit of personal showboating and foot-in-the-door-for-glory talk from Gary March when he so proudly noted that Cameron's (and March's) era was what set up the glory now.

Seriously, do you have any actual evidence to support the claim of Craig Cameron's tenure at Richmond being the groundwork for their premiership success?

I've presented the alternate position, and supported it by noting that there was limited list development, and minimal results progress, and that the surge to success occurred only after Richmond engaged in a serious review which the club and players openly acknowledge had a major transformative effect.

So far all you've offered to support your claim of a 'brilliant job' by Cameron is that five years after he left a premiership was achieved by a list which was about 80% built before or after his tenure, under the direction of an almost entirely new coaching panel, supervised by a significantly changed board and club executive.

Was it an "extensive review" or a "serious review" - big difference?  

Or was it Tigers spin to protect against the "hostile take-over" and sustain their growing 70K plus memberships, huge crowds, record sponsorship deals, next to no reliance on poker machines and a few other alternative incomes they are setting up - not to forget their massive imputs from State & Federal Governments?

When CC and Marchy took over I'm sure they were out there "rattling tins" to coin a phrase - not unlike another club I happen to know.

I'm sure we finished last and they finished second last? Since then look at their membership numbers, look at their average crowds, look at their sponsorship numbers, look at their lack of reliance on Poker machines, look at their development programmes, look at their investments in Punt Rd facilities - hell they dont even sell home games these days. If you dont think that CC & FD had a big role  to play - stick with your "xxxxxx reviews"

Just for the record I'm not disagreeing with your comments re-Marchy but think he does deserve some of the credit along with Blair & CC - next time you see our CEO ask him what sustained stability would do for the MFC ? 

Edited by DaveyDee

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1 hour ago, DaveyDee said:

Was it an "extensive review" or a "serious review" - big difference?  

Or was it Tigers spin to protect against the "hostile take-over" and sustain their growing 70K plus memberships, huge crowds, record sponsorship deals, next to no reliance on poker machines and a few other alternative incomes they are setting up - not to forget their massive imputs from State & Federal Governments?

When CC and Marchy took over I'm sure they were out there "rattling tins" to coin a phrase - not unlike another club I happen to know.

I'm sure we finished last and they finished second last? Since then look at their membership numbers, look at their average crowds, look at their sponsorship numbers, look at their lack of reliance on Poker machines, look at their development programmes, look at their investments in Punt Rd facilities - hell they dont even sell home games these days. If you dont think that CC & FD had a big role  to play - stick with your "xxxxxx reviews"

Just for the record I'm not disagreeing with your comments re-Marchy but think he does deserve some of the credit along with Blair & CC - next time you see our CEO ask him what sustained stability would do for the MFC ? 

It might have been seriously extensive. Maybe it was 'totes full-on'.

Anyway, we have different opinions.

You think Cameron laid the groundwork for Richmond's later success, I think he didn't achieve much more than treading water. We've each given our reasons.

I don't hate the guy, and I do recognise that he was severely under-resourced in his role while with us (like all Demon things not so long ago) and right now I feel like if I keep pushing my point of view it'll just come across as some kind of vendetta against him. So, deep breath and moving on.

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3 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

It might have been seriously extensive. Maybe it was 'totes full-on'.

Anyway, we have different opinions.

You think Cameron laid the groundwork for Richmond's later success, I think he didn't achieve much more than treading water. We've each given our reasons.

I don't hate the guy, and I do recognise that he was severely under-resourced in his role while with us (like all Demon things not so long ago) and right now I feel like if I keep pushing my point of view it'll just come across as some kind of vendetta against him. So, deep breath and moving on.

Cheers - agreed we have different opinions respect your stance. Much appreciated. 

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On 11/14/2017 at 7:24 PM, goodoil said:

Barry's record improves over time with the impacts of Gawn, Jetta, T.Mac, Howe et cetera.  Scully became Hogan, Gysberts Pedersen

I guess that's relatively true. It's more he blew the really elite top picks, which as we know, usually yield the absolute stars.

Edited by A F

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On 11/17/2017 at 10:50 AM, DaveyDee said:

Had I known there was so much hate & blame still around for CC I would not have. I thought we had matured as a club, learnt from our mistakes - sorry I was clearly wrong.

Now I comprehend my mistake - the expertise at Demonland regarding Footy Department maters at the MFC and across multiple clubs is staggering - I officially apologise for starting the thread. 

So, no reason at all? OK.  Sure.

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On 11/14/2017 at 7:24 PM, goodoil said:

Barry's record improves over time with the impacts of Gawn, Jetta, T.Mac, Howe et cetera.  Scully became Hogan, Gysberts Pedersen

I missed this statement. What utter crap.

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