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It's Time

List Analysis Potential v Reality

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If every player can't improve then Goodwin will be [censored] off, he expects every player to improve a facet of their game where the coaching panel thinks it is lacking, Pedersen's fitness and size,  Garlett's set shot, Jetta's attacking are 3 I know of

Whether they can do it, is the other question

Edited by Satyriconhome
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14 hours ago, DemonWA said:

I agree - his (Bugg) suspension really hurt our season.

Plays a role every week and gets the ball in dangerous areas

I tend to agree - other than his well publicized brain fade he just works hard and often unnoticed.

Hopefully he will return chastened and with all to prove.  ( Still regard him as a fringe player - the “incident” will make or break him IMO.

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4 hours ago, MudDogs Gawn Win.. someday said:

I think the only thing you’ve botched is saying Pedersen isn’t starting 22. He is 💯% starting 22. Hands are as good as Hogan’s reliable Kick has a massive tank and can play ruck. 

Hope he starts rd1 and makes Weiderman warm his spot. If the Weid starts rd1 on potential again I’ll be annoyed.

I don’t disagree with this at all Mud Dog. This is exactly how ive felt with OMac. But I guess the OMac example has taught me that  by giving these kids games now, against my better judgement, they will be at both their physical peak with high levels of confidence when our run of four peat of flags commences.

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Players who are best 22 and have reached their potential (7)

Jones
Lewis
Hibberd
Jetta
Pedersen
Garlett
Melksham
 
 
Players who are best 22 and have not reached their potential (15)
 
Low Scope for Improvement (5)
Gawn
Viney
Tyson
Frost
T Mac
 
Medium Scope for Improvement (6)
Oliver
Lever
Hogan
Harmes
Hunt
Neal-Bullen
 
Large Scope for Improvement (4)
Brayshaw
Petracca
Salem
O Mac
 
 
Players who are not best 22 and have not reached their potential (12)
 
Low Scope for Improvement (2)
Bugg
vandenBerg
 
Medium Scope for Improvement (6)
Hannan
Kent
Stretch 
JKH
King
Johnston
 
Large Scope for Improvement (4)
Weideman
Balic
Maynard
J Smith
 
 
Players who are not best 22 and have reached their potential (2)
 
Vince
Wagner
Edited by P-man
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I think Salem and Brayshaw have a lot of improvement in them. They are both gun players I believe they just need to play more often.

Oliver has played only 2 seasons and will improve. Harmes and ANB could come along to be very handy players. For me the jury is out on Hogan and Petracca. Both have huge capabilities but will they show it ?

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For mine, Weideman is the wild card in this deck. If he develops into the KPF many hope, then we are in front of the game.

 

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6 hours ago, It's Time said:

I'd like to agree with you and without question his best is best 22 but his problem which he has admitted and which Paul Roos mentioned is his inconsistency. He had a purple patch and I thought he'd really finally arrived but then in the last month he vanished again especially when we really needed him to stand up. That's the reason I don't have him best 22 and that's the reason he'll be gone if the Weid come through. The only hope is that he works out why he played so well for those couple of games and can make that consistent. 

Vanished in the last month??! What games were watching? Dominated Port Brisbane and the Saints? 

I really wonder about demonland sometimes..

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19 hours ago, Dee Dee said:

I recall Cuthbertson kicking a bag against Collingwood one day, but that was it. However Eddie loved him and said he should have been playing for the Pies!

Grigic's another matter. He played a good game for Melbourne at centre half forward against- not sure,(Collingwood) but then played a very good game against Melbourne for a victorious Geelong side, so, at least a couple of good games before his lack of ability became truly apparent.

Harmes has more up side I believe, and has not reached his full potential as yet. He's not going to be an A grader but decent B grade is not beyond his capabilities.

I remember 1991 well as I was in Melbourne studying.  Cuthbertson was on fire for a brief period kicked 7 against North in rd 4 (which I was there to see) and followed it up with 7 against the Pies the following week.  Leigh Matthews mentioned he was the difference between the two sides.  Rd 6 he kicked 5 against the Bears, but unfortunately for Darren and the club his star dimmed.  Only ended up playing 32 games in 3 seasons. He'd had a pretty hard road to get to the club and unfortunately I think some off field issues got the better of him.

 

 

Edited by grazman
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I'm still coming to terms with Richmond winning the flag, and on a lesser scale the Bulldogs. Both teams far from the most skilled in their respective years but manic pressure in their attack on the ball/ball carrier and get the ball forward at any cost got them across the line. Our players still struggle with the concept of coming to play every week. 

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15 hours ago, P-man said:

Players who are best 22 and have reached their potential (7)

Jones
Lewis
Hibberd
Jetta
Pedersen
Garlett
Melksham
 
 
Players who are best 22 and have not reached their potential (15)
 
Low Scope for Improvement (5)
Gawn
Viney
Tyson
Frost
T Mac
 
Medium Scope for Improvement (6)
Oliver
Lever
Hogan
Harmes
Hunt
Neal-Bullen
 
Large Scope for Improvement (4)
Brayshaw
Petracca
Salem
O Mac
 
 
Players who are not best 22 and have not reached their potential (12)
 
Low Scope for Improvement (2)
Bugg
vandenBerg
 
Medium Scope for Improvement (6)
Hannan
Kent
Stretch 
JKH
King
Johnston
 
Large Scope for Improvement (4)
Weideman
Balic
Maynard
J Smith
 
 
Players who are not best 22 and have reached their potential (2)
 
Vince
Wagner

Nice work P-man. I would argue three of four assessments but this is a great model of categorisation and you've fairly well nailed the majority of slots.

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Watching all of this years finals I found it interesting as to how many skilled key forwards from all teams we're so easily shut out of games.

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19 hours ago, It's Time said:

Attitude alone won't save Pedders. His problem is consistency. He's admitted this himself. He covered himself in glory for a few weeks and then dropped off badly at the end of the season. I don't know if that's an attitude problem or something else. If he knew he'd fix it. 

Problem is not consistency. It's role and fit. Pedo isn't a natural KPF and not a starting ruck. But he plays his best footy when he's primarily involved and moving toward goals. Yet he's not a wing and not quite a roving CFH either. He is a very good utility.

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22 minutes ago, Skuit said:

Nice work P-man. I would argue three of four assessments but this is a great model of categorisation and you've fairly well nailed the majority of slots.

Cheers. Interested to know what changes you'd make/who you'd slot differently,

i realised I left out Filipovic and Tim Smith but can't edit posts after a certain time.

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38 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Watching all of this years finals I found it interesting as to how many skilled key forwards from all teams we're so easily shut out of games.

Both GWS and Adelaide played the flanks and gave Richmond the corridor. The traditional forward delivery to the pocket seems to be the easiest to zone against as it allows the ball to be taken out of bounds as well as rebounded. Of course the empty forward line also slows delivery which does not help the traditional forward.

Will be interesting to see if the traditional teams change their game plan to counter the scrum or as I call it helter skelter. Would love to see a permanent forward about 70 metres out from goal trialled.

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On 03/11/2017 at 11:54 AM, ignition. said:

I think that's a relatively fair assessment. Although, I believe that Viney, Oliver, Lever, and Gawn can take their games to a new level again.

They are at a point, however, which is probably more dependent on how the team around them performs as to how much further they develop. Likewise, the development of the others will be catalysed if the team as a whole, including the game plan or execution of it, improves.

Agreed. 

There is plenty of development left in Viney, Oliver, Gawn and Lever. 

 

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Highly supportive of Pedo in the best 22; he has the utility assets to change an opponent's game plan and this is generated from an outstanding attitude towards his contribution and that of players around him. He can change games on his very special gifts and skills, and with big fitness improvements, 'his tank' had enabled this attitude to shine through the past season.

I am worried about the young fella who is the spitting image of the great  Melbourne player and captain, Hassa Mann, on the field. That is, Dean Kent. Few athletes can overcome the damaging effects of a dislocated shoulder, a long-term weakness in the stability of the joint arises. To me, this is a real shame, as Kenty has shown plenty and if he can get up well for 2018, I'd reckon he has those attributes (in buckets) that we need on the half-forward flank both as a goalsneak and as a key linkman for other forwards. His kicking and running can both be excellent if he has game time to settle in this role. He is a killer short-pass exponent. He is also quite tough and hard at the ball. His head is always up, and with his fast on-field mind, zeros in on a team-mate to deliver the end result through a scoring opportunity. 

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11 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Highly supportive of Pedo in the best 22; he has the utility assets to change an opponent's game plan and this is generated from an outstanding attitude towards his contribution and that of players around him. He can change games on his very special gifts and skills, and with big fitness improvements, 'his tank' had enabled this attitude to shine through the past season.

I am worried about the young fella who is the spitting image of the great  Melbourne player and captain, Hassa Mann, on the field. That is, Dean Kent. Few athletes can overcome the damaging effects of a dislocated shoulder, a long-term weakness in the stability of the joint arises. To me, this is a real shame, as Kenty has shown plenty and if he can get up well for 2018, I'd reckon he has those attributes (in buckets) that we need on the half-forward flank both as a goalsneak and as a key linkman for other forwards. His kicking and running can both be excellent if he has game time to settle in this role. He is a killer short-pass exponent. He is also quite tough and hard at the ball. His head is always up, and with his fast on-field mind, zeros in on a team-mate to deliver the end result through a scoring opportunity. 

A certain R Flower managed to go all right with one of these shoulders for most other career although it probably would have robbed him of a Grand Final appearance if we'd made it in '87. Saw his Open Mike interview again recently and he said he struggled to play a month later in some rep game. 

Kent is an interesting one. Year before last he was shaping up as one of our key players. His forward pressure was the best in the team and he had a few games he blew open with those fast dashes and goals but injuries and form have brought him down. Really hope he recaptures it and fulfills the glimpses he's shown. 

 

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On 03/11/2017 at 2:54 PM, ignition. said:

I think that's a relatively fair assessment. Although, I believe that Viney, Oliver, Lever, and Gawn can take their games to a new level again.

I agree. I put them in that category because they are already performing at a consistent AFL level even though there's still a lot of upside  whereas the others in the second category haven't got that consistency yet. Some might argue Petracca has but he's a long way off his potential. 

I don't agree with you on Gawn. He had that season last year but was cruelled by injury this year. Are we worried enough about whether he can recapture his best to put him out of this category? That's a different issue. 

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29 minutes ago, It's Time said:

A certain R Flower managed to go all right with one of these shoulders for most other career although it probably would have robbed him of a Grand Final appearance if we'd made it in '87. Saw his Open Mike interview again recently and he said he struggled to play a month later in some rep game. 

 

 

Cannot forget that 1987 prelim final incident. Tuck and Dipper lined him up and sandwiched him deliberately from both sides with strong simultaneous shoulder bumps. Legal bastardry but it has always colored my memory of Tuck.

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4 hours ago, grazman said:

I remember 1991 well as I was in Melbourne studying.  Cuthbertson was on fire for a brief period kicked 7 against North in rd 4 (which I was there to see) and followed it up with 7 against the Pies the following week.  Leigh Matthews mentioned he was the difference between the two sides.  Rd 6 he kicked 5 against the Bears, but unfortunately for Darren and the club his star dimmed.  Only ended up playing 32 games in 3 seasons. He'd had a pretty hard road to get to the club and unfortunately I think some off field issues got the better of him.

 

 

Thanks for that, my memory's a bit vague on the detail, however I remember thinking "wow this is it" only to have the lad fade away. Something that happened far too often in the past! But no more eh (says he typing and touching wood all at the same time)!!!

Which is why I think young Harmes can still improve.

 

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18 hours ago, MudDogs Gawn Win.. someday said:

Vanished in the last month??! What games were watching? Dominated Port Brisbane and the Saints? 

I really wonder about demonland sometimes..

We all see what we want to see.  Last time I checked a month goes for 4 weeks not 2.  Rd 20 first of the final month v GWS a game we desperately needed him to  stand up in.  Stats were 8 disposals 1 goal 2 hitouts. Ditto Rd 23 11 disposals 1 goal 2 hitouts. The last month sums him up perfectly unfortunately. He wasn't even in the team for the two rounds before it. Dropped. FD didn't regard him as best 22. Before that Rd 16 10 disposals 0 goals. Rd 17 12 disposals 0 goals. 

The cherry picked games you mention were the 2 great performances out of the last 8 rounds. Pedders is 30. There is no time left for him to be so inconsistent. I expect he will start round 1 next season and hope he continues on the form of your 2 games but unfortunately I'm not confident. His history shows he can't do it consistently and that's why I don't have him best 22. I truly hope he proves me wrong. 

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On 03/11/2017 at 4:12 PM, Dee Dee said:

Harmed is an interesting one. I've just re-visited our last season round 21 match against StKilda where he kicked 3 first quarter goals and made himself very useful throughout the rest of the match.

Still young, still has great upside.

Agreed, and he's the only Demon I've seen that employs a fend off as often as Dusty. He has confidence with the ball tucked under his arm - he'll improve!

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8 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

I'm still coming to terms with Richmond winning the flag, and on a lesser scale the Bulldogs. Both teams far from the most skilled in their respective years but manic pressure in their attack on the ball/ball carrier and get the ball forward at any cost got them across the line. Our players still struggle with the concept of coming to play every week. 

Well if Richmond can go from a model of inconsistency to premiers in the space of a year or two, why can't we? I have hope that we will see what can happen when a squad of players are all playing their role. Who's going to be our match winner superstar (Dusty) though?

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51 minutes ago, leucopogon said:

Well if Richmond can go from a model of inconsistency to premiers in the space of a year or two, why can't we? I have hope that we will see what can happen when a squad of players are all playing their role. Who's going to be our match winner superstar (Dusty) though?

I'll nominate Petracca.  I''m confident that he has the tools, but does he have the desire and dedication?  Genuine question, but no reason to believe otherwise.

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1 hour ago, leucopogon said:

Well if Richmond can go from a model of inconsistency to premiers in the space of a year or two, why can't we? I have hope that we will see what can happen when a squad of players are all playing their role. Who's going to be our match winner superstar (Dusty) though?

Petracca. 

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