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Big Carl

Best MFC team in last 50 years

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3 hours ago, Demonised said:

If we're looking for a fullback, Tassie Johnson sneaks into 'last 50 years'. 

Good call. 

Tassie was a great player. 

Good overhead both mark and spoil, beautiful kick and tough as nails. Looked like a film star with his great physique and slicked back jet black hair.

One of the few players that could keep John Peck quiet and not be intimidated by him. I seem to remember Peck saying that had great respect for Tassie and was one of the best FB. 

Along with Bernie Massey his drop kicks had to be seen to be believed. You would pack the stands every week if you had a defender like Tassie drop kicking from the square.

Tassie occasionally went up forward but later on in his career (and after the demise of Graham Wise) spent much of his time in the ruck. A small ruckman (6.1/6.2) he was very effective at centre bounces due to his positioning skills. 

In fact when you think back to those days, one realizes how many great skills and attributes of the game have been lost as we have moved further along the path of this hybrid game of part rugby, part soccer and part basketball. 

Despite statistics trotted out by the AFL,  I meet more and more people who are so disillusioned with the way the game is played that they no longer attend or have lost interest altogether. 

 

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Ernest, I'm not sure I agree with you. On the rare occasion I see replays of games from the 60s and 70s I'm regularly surprised at how poor the quality actually is. I think we collectively remember the highlights of our youth and forget those dreadful games in the mudheaps of suburban grounds, the inability of players to find targets and the slow ball movement of the time caused by players almost always taking a mark and stopping before determining where to send their next kick.

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A great topic Big Carl and you did a superb job. Obviously all of us will differ in our view - but I'm in the lucky boat of being the right vintage for this one, as you may be as well.

Almost all of your line-up I agree with, although I did struggle with a few and have made three changes and swapped a couple on the bench.

I'm sorry but I can't have Graeme Yeats in this side. He was handy, but occasionally was dropped as a defender, although his superb 1987 year as a wingman helped turn things around for the whole side. But he can't get the wing role for obvious reasons.

The tricky thing is deciding whether his spot goes to a tall defender or a small one. Ultimately I suspect Jake Lever or Michael Hibberd will get the spot, but the only good, tall intercepters we have had are Jared Rivers and Clint Biz and whilst they had their days, they weren't quite dominant enough. I think any side of this 50-year era has to consider Laurie Fowler. Dumped by the Tigers, he was as tough as nails, won a few B&Fs and was a long clearing kick. He'd also back into anything - Neil Balme included. He's the only one I feel comfortable enough to propose for the other back pocket besides Alan Johnson, who is a monty.

The full-back spot is also a troubling one. Danny Hughes was tough and a great kick, but he was mighty slow - that's why Northey decided against playing him on Dunstall in the 1988 GF. He did have a few cracking QB games on Brian Taylor though. Peter Giles was tight-checking and good enough for Lethal to decide to wipe him out. But I like Sean Wight most of all - he kept Ablett goalless one game and his attack on the footy was inspiring. While our depth came on in 1987 and hence everyone played a part in that revival, it was Wight that turned us into a counter-attacking side - a bit like Alex Rance today. Frawley of 2011 also was worthy but his other years were solid, not amazing.

I eventually agreed with your choice of half-backs. Brett Lovett was slow, but did all the fundamentals right and enjoyed playing on Peter Daicos. I think he was probably a tad smarter than Tony Sullivan, though cut from the same cloth. The running half-back spot is a toss up between Steven Febey and Stephen Stretch, although Jayden may go past both of them in time. Stretcher was a better kick and had a bigger leap, but Febel could run all day and kept presenting and with brother Matt and Nathan Brown, gave us the run that propelled Daniher's side to finals. Both lacked the mongrel touch though. Grinter, however, was considered by other fans to be more mongrel than footballer but he was a pretty handy kick on the run plus he could take a hanger, so you could probably forgive him the fact that his hip invariably wound up making contact with opponents. Adem Yze also had a sensational year in 2000 off a back flank but played way more as a forward and a bench spot in this side beckons for him.

Gary Hardeman is somewhat lucky. The taxi driver was a wonky kick and probably wouldn't even get drafted today because of it, but he was a good mark, played tight, was pretty quick and also was reliable enough when playing for the Vics. He fared well in the Brownlow, but I reckon even he would say that he wasn't as good as a runner-up and third place suggest. But who has been a better CHB on a regular basis? Wight was good there in 87 but played most of his footy at FB, Lyon was exceptional when switched there and Neiter had that one game on Carey in 1994 that everyone thinks makes him a CHB guru, but he was way better as a forward. Spalding wasn't quite quick or mobile enough, hence got sent to CHF.

The centreline is hard to argue with. Alves and Wells were premiership players, albeit it after the skippers left to finish their careers in glory. Flower was a God. But that leaves us with a problem because Willo in 1982 was amazing and he was very good for a few more years, often in the uncanny small forward role, where his big baulking hip-swivel was lethal.  But I'll take Willo on the bench. The other hard luck story is Stephen Tingay, who was hard and gave his all, but just missed both our grand finals - too young for 88, too old and injured for 00. I've named him emergency to keep the hard luck theme going.

The choice of CHF is a lot harder than most young people realise. Officer Greg Parke was amazing in the early 70s, he had sticky fingers but his errant boot often let us down. I accept Schwarter at CHF as he was the most amazing player I have seen though until his knee and he did fight back bravely to win our B&F. I can just cop Parke's omission - but I think if enough people of my age were online, then I reckon he probably would get the nod.

I've gone with Gerard Healy on a flank. He often played that spot for the Vics after his 77-odd goal season as a forward pocket next to Whacko Jacko in 1982. In 84 and 85 he was virtually unstoppable as a ruck rover before heading to to the Swans. Seven years and 130 games for us - yep that's enough I reckon to make this side, even though his first couple of seasons on the wing were very much developmental years. In fact I'd say he's the third best footballer we've seen in this 50-year period behind Robbie and Garry Lyon.

Neiter gets the full forward spot hands down. If only Hoges had a thumping kick like David did! And the whiz was Mr Magic for us - also for seven seasons - and his 2000 year was phenomenal. You could make a case for Aaron Davey as a small forward and even though he never kicked a swag of goals, he did change the game with his forward pressure. That's why he's in my 22.

Then I get controversial for you Big Carl. I'm sorry but I disagree on Allen Jakovich's inclusion. Sure he was amazing once he got his chance in 1991, but four seasons and 47 games isn't a team of the century stat. I'd be happy for him to be in our most mercurial or talented team of the century, but I don't think that's what this topic is about. It's for that reason that Russell Robertson gets my vote - keep your feet, Robbo. Sure Robbo benefitted from having Neiter next to him, but he did win four club goalkicking awards and played more than 200 games - not bad for a guy spotted taking a nice hanger. Brad Green also goes close, but he spent a lot of time as a winger.

The ruck's a given, the ruck-rover is also easy as Todd Viney was bigger than Jack and just as tough, although his kicking let him down. I loved the Obstetrician as a player and Glenn Lovett was clever as well, but neither can match Nathan Jones for workrate or heart nor, as some of you have seen, the kicking skills. Henry Coles and Sugar Healy had their moments and Junior Mac was a great leader ... but Jonesy is a three-time B&F winner for good reason.

The last spot on the bench goes to a defender for balance and Grinter just pips Stretch and Hughes, but really I'm splitting hairs now.

So here it is In bold are players that you picked that I agreed with Big Carl, although Healy and Viney have swapped positions - Todd was never as good as a forward.

B:     A Johnson   S.Wight D Hughes  L.Fowler G Yeats

HB:  B Lovett  G Hardeman  S Febey

C:     S Alves  G Wells  R Flower

HF:  G Lyon  D Schwarz  Gerard Healy 

F:    J Farmer   D Neitz  R Robertson A Jakovich

R:  J Stynes  T Viney  N Jones

Int:  B Wilson R Grinter, A. Davey A Yze J McDonald,

Emerg:  S.Tingay G.Parke, S.Stretch A ObstE Spalding

OK, a few other comments on those that other have mentioned but miss out IMO.

Gary Baker - A lovely mark, but was usually beaten in hit-outs because he was quite short compared to other tapmen. He also wasn't mobile enough to hold down CHF or CHB - something that Jimmy did a bit of early in his career. We've had a long list of handy ruckmen - Big Carl, Peter Moore, Jeff White and Strawb O'Dwyer, but only one so far can match Jimmy and big Maxy needs to do it for quite a few more years yet to challenge him.

Ray Biffin - The problem is he can't get a gig as FF because we have Neiter in that spot and even then, his kicking for goal was sporadic at best. As a FB, he played some handy games, but he wasn't fit enough to be a flying intercept mark or rebounder and hence misses out.

Stephen Smith - Ultimately a bit of a tease like Jack Watts. Under Skilton we thought we had a superstar in the making at CHF, but then he was never quite able to nail down the spot, eventually being sent to defence where he was reliable in a very ordinary side. His best game was on Leigh Matthews and we all should know where that ends - just ask Gilesy or Allen Jarrot.

 

 

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J McDonald and A Obst need to fit in there somewhere. Both better than G Parke

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It's been an interesting discussion so far. Nice post big Carl.

Here's the team i'd like:

A Jones      J Frawley      S White

B Lovett      D Neitz         M Whelan

R Flower     N Jones       S Tingay

G Lyon        D Schwartz  A Davey

J Farmer    A Jacovich   B Green


Rucks: J White, (C)T Viney, T Johnston

Interchange: K Dyson, S Wowoden, C Bizzel, D Bennet

Emergencies: J Stynes, A Yze, R Jackson, R Grinter, C Sylvia

 

Ps; In my opinion, Brad Green should only of ever played in or on the 50m line. And I don't care about people mentioning that Colin Sylvia became a lazy player. 

 

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3 hours ago, Deespicable said:

A great topic Big Carl and you did a superb job. Obviously all of us will differ in our view - but I'm in the lucky boat of being the right vintage for this one, as you may be as well.

Almost all of your line-up I agree with, although I did struggle with a few and have made three changes and swapped a couple on the bench.

I'm sorry but I can't have Graeme Yeats in this side. He was handy, but occasionally was dropped as a defender, although his superb 1987 year as a wingman helped turn things around for the whole side. But he can't get the wing role for obvious reasons.

The tricky thing is deciding whether his spot goes to a tall defender or a small one. Ultimately I suspect Jake Lever or Michael Hibberd will get the spot, but the only good, tall intercepters we have had are Jared Rivers and Clint Biz and whilst they had their days, they weren't quite dominant enough. I think any side of this 50-year era has to consider Laurie Fowler. Dumped by the Tigers, he was as tough as nails, won a few B&Fs and was a long clearing kick. He'd also back into anything - Neil Balme included. He's the only one I feel comfortable enough to propose for the other back pocket besides Alan Johnson, who is a monty.

The full-back spot is also a troubling one. Danny Hughes was tough and a great kick, but he was mighty slow - that's why Northey decided against playing him on Dunstall in the 1988 GF. He did have a few cracking QB games on Brian Taylor though. Peter Giles was tight-checking and good enough for Lethal to decide to wipe him out. But I like Sean Wight most of all - he kept Ablett goalless one game and his attack on the footy was inspiring. While our depth came on in 1987 and hence everyone played a part in that revival, it was Wight that turned us into a counter-attacking side - a bit like Alex Rance today. Frawley of 2011 also was worthy but his other years were solid, not amazing.

I eventually agreed with your choice of half-backs. Brett Lovett was slow, but did all the fundamentals right and enjoyed playing on Peter Daicos. I think he was probably a tad smarter than Tony Sullivan, though cut from the same cloth. The running half-back spot is a toss up between Steven Febey and Stephen Stretch, although Jayden may go past both of them in time. Stretcher was a better kick and had a bigger leap, but Febel could run all day and kept presenting and with brother Matt and Nathan Brown, gave us the run that propelled Daniher's side to finals. Both lacked the mongrel touch though. Grinter, however, was considered by other fans to be more mongrel than footballer but he was a pretty handy kick on the run plus he could take a hanger, so you could probably forgive him the fact that his hip invariably wound up making contact with opponents. Adem Yze also had a sensational year in 2000 off a back flank but played way more as a forward and a bench spot in this side beckons for him.

Gary Hardeman is somewhat lucky. The taxi driver was a wonky kick and probably wouldn't even get drafted today because of it, but he was a good mark, played tight, was pretty quick and also was reliable enough when playing for the Vics. He fared well in the Brownlow, but I reckon even he would say that he wasn't as good as a runner-up and third place suggest. But who has been a better CHB on a regular basis? Wight was good there in 87 but played most of his footy at FB, Lyon was exceptional when switched there and Neiter had that one game on Carey in 1994 that everyone thinks makes him a CHB guru, but he was way better as a forward. Spalding wasn't quite quick or mobile enough, hence got sent to CHF.

The centreline is hard to argue with. Alves and Wells were premiership players, albeit it after the skippers left to finish their careers in glory. Flower was a God. But that leaves us with a problem because Willo in 1982 was amazing and he was very good for a few more years, often in the uncanny small forward role, where his big baulking hip-swivel was lethal.  But I'll take Willo on the bench. The other hard luck story is Stephen Tingay, who was hard and gave his all, but just missed both our grand finals - too young for 88, too old and injured for 00. I've named him emergency to keep the hard luck theme going.

The choice of CHF is a lot harder than most young people realise. Officer Greg Parke was amazing in the early 70s, he had sticky fingers but his errant boot often let us down. I accept Schwarter at CHF as he was the most amazing player I have seen though until his knee and he did fight back bravely to win our B&F. I can just cop Parke's omission - but I think if enough people of my age were online, then I reckon he probably would get the nod.

I've gone with Gerard Healy on a flank. He often played that spot for the Vics after his 77-odd goal season as a forward pocket next to Whacko Jacko in 1982. In 84 and 85 he was virtually unstoppable as a ruck rover before heading to to the Swans. Seven years and 130 games for us - yep that's enough I reckon to make this side, even though his first couple of seasons on the wing were very much developmental years. In fact I'd say he's the third best footballer we've seen in this 50-year period behind Robbie and Garry Lyon.

Neiter gets the full forward spot hands down. If only Hoges had a thumping kick like David did! And the whiz was Mr Magic for us - also for seven seasons - and his 2000 year was phenomenal. You could make a case for Aaron Davey as a small forward and even though he never kicked a swag of goals, he did change the game with his forward pressure. That's why he's in my 22.

Then I get controversial for you Big Carl. I'm sorry but I disagree on Allen Jakovich's inclusion. Sure he was amazing once he got his chance in 1991, but four seasons and 47 games isn't a team of the century stat. I'd be happy for him to be in our most mercurial or talented team of the century, but I don't think that's what this topic is about. It's for that reason that Russell Robertson gets my vote - keep your feet, Robbo. Sure Robbo benefitted from having Neiter next to him, but he did win four club goalkicking awards and played more than 200 games - not bad for a guy spotted taking a nice hanger. Brad Green also goes close, but he spent a lot of time as a winger.

The ruck's a given, the ruck-rover is also easy as Todd Viney was bigger than Jack and just as tough, although his kicking let him down. I loved the Obstetrician as a player and Glenn Lovett was clever as well, but neither can match Nathan Jones for workrate or heart nor, as some of you have seen, the kicking skills. Henry Coles and Sugar Healy had their moments and Junior Mac was a great leader ... but Jonesy is a three-time B&F winner for good reason.

The last spot on the bench goes to a defender for balance and Grinter just pips Stretch and Hughes, but really I'm splitting hairs now.

So here it is In bold are players that you picked that I agreed with Big Carl, although Healy and Viney have swapped positions - Todd was never as good as a forward.

B:     A Johnson   S.Wight D Hughes  L.Fowler G Yeats

HB:  B Lovett  G Hardeman  S Febey

C:     S Alves  G Wells  R Flower

HF:  G Lyon  D Schwarz  Gerard Healy 

F:    J Farmer   D Neitz  R Robertson A Jakovich

R:  J Stynes  T Viney  N Jones

Int:  B Wilson R Grinter, A. Davey A Yze J McDonald,

Emerg:  S.Tingay G.Parke, S.Stretch A ObstE Spalding

OK, a few other comments on those that other have mentioned but miss out IMO.

Gary Baker - A lovely mark, but was usually beaten in hit-outs because he was quite short compared to other tapmen. He also wasn't mobile enough to hold down CHF or CHB - something that Jimmy did a bit of early in his career. We've had a long list of handy ruckmen - Big Carl, Peter Moore, Jeff White and Strawb O'Dwyer, but only one so far can match Jimmy and big Maxy needs to do it for quite a few more years yet to challenge him.

Ray Biffin - The problem is he can't get a gig as FF because we have Neiter in that spot and even then, his kicking for goal was sporadic at best. As a FB, he played some handy games, but he wasn't fit enough to be a flying intercept mark or rebounder and hence misses out.

Stephen Smith - Ultimately a bit of a tease like Jack Watts. Under Skilton we thought we had a superstar in the making at CHF, but then he was never quite able to nail down the spot, eventually being sent to defence where he was reliable in a very ordinary side. His best game was on Leigh Matthews and we all should know where that ends - just ask Gilesy or Allen Jarrot.

 

 

Laurie Fowler, good get, won 3 best and fairest awards, also spent some time ruck roving.

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W

2 hours ago, red&blue1982 said:

It's been an interesting discussion so far. Nice post big Carl.

Here's the team i'd like:

A Jones      J Frawley      S White

B Lovett      D Neitz         M Whelan

R Flower     N Jones       S Tingay

G Lyon        D Schwartz  A Davey

J Farmer    A Jacovich   B Green


Rucks: J White, (C)T Viney, T Johnston

Interchange: K Dyson, S Wowoden, C Bizzel, D Bennet

Emergencies: J Stynes, A Yze, R Jackson, R Grinter, C Sylvia

 

Ps; In my opinion, Brad Green should only of ever played in or on the 50m line. And I don't care about people mentioning that Colin Sylvia became a lazy player. 

 

Who is the back pocket Jones? You surely mean Johnson...

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58 minutes ago, dieter said:

W

Who is the back pocket Jones? You surely mean Johnson...

I did. Typo.

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A Johnson   J Frawley     S White

B Lovett    D Neitz     M Whelan

R Flower    N Jones     S Tingay

G Lyon      D Schwartz  A Davey

J Farmer    A Jacovich  B Green


Rucks: J White, T Viney, T Johnston

Interchange: K Dyson, S Wowoden, C Sylvia, D Bennet

Emergencies: J Stynes, A Yze, R Jackson, R Grinter G Rigoni

 

Corrected spelling.

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12 hours ago, red&blue1982 said:

A Johnson   J Frawley     S White

B Lovett    D Neitz     M Whelan

R Flower    N Jones     S Tingay

G Lyon      D Schwartz  A Davey

J Farmer    A Jacovich  B Green


Rucks: J White, T Viney, T Johnston

Interchange: K Dyson, S Wowoden, C Sylvia, D Bennet

Emergencies: J Stynes, A Yze, R Jackson, R Grinter G Rigoni

 

Corrected spelling.

Except for Schwarz, Jakovich, Woewodin, T Johnstone, Bennett and Wight...

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