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Trade Jack Watts or not?  

475 members have voted

  1. 1. Do we trade Jack Watts?

    • Yes.
      142
    • No.
      311


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8 minutes ago, Abe said:

Dom Tyson has stated publicly that he hopes watts stays and he's to important to trade. 

Reckon he will get a talking to about that

Is Dom, is good!

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7 minutes ago, Abe said:

Dom Tyson has stated publicly that he hopes watts stays and he's to important to trade. 

Reckon he will get a talking to about that

A big element of the Leading Team's formula is about involving players in key issues and empowering players about many matters that have traditionally been decreed from the Mount.

In short, it is about creating trust and reducing the feeling of being coached in an autocratic regime.

I am very nervous about this one. And that's only partially due to my affection for Jack Watts. It's actually principally due to my experience in people management in a group environment. It is critical to have one's ear to the ground on this stuff, to sense the temperature of the team on certain decisions.

I really rate Goodwin as a coach, and I think the club is very fortunate to have him. But I fear he's potentially going to make his first big mistake here. I sincerely hope that, before he pushes the button on this, he listens to quite a few experienced heads about this, eg, Paul Roos and Todd Viney.

 

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4 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

A big element of the Leading Team's formula is about involving players in key issues and empowering players about many matters that have traditionally been decreed from the Mount.

In short, it is about creating trust and reducing the feeling of being coached in an autocratic regime.

I am very nervous about this one. And that's only partially due to my affection for Jack Watts. It's actually principally due to my experience in people management in a group environment. It is critical to have one's ear to the ground on this stuff, to sense the temperature of the team on certain decisions.

I really rate Goodwin as a coach, and I think the club is very fortunate to have him. But I fear he's potentially going to make his first big mistake here. I sincerely hope that, before he pushes the button on this, he listens to quite a few experienced heads about this, eg, Paul Roos and Todd Viney.

 

Agree with everything except the 'really rate Goodwin as a coach'

Jury's still out on that one 

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37 minutes ago, Abe said:

Dom Tyson has stated publicly that he hopes watts stays and he's to important to trade. 

Reckon he will get a talking to about that

Hope not.

If the club don't like his comments they should not have allowed him on SEN.  Or else ensure that he has a script to talk to and tows the company line which Jones so obviously does.

I liked hearing Tyson stick up for his team mate. 

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
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1 minute ago, jumbo returns said:

Agree with everything except the 'really rate Goodwin as a coach'

Jury's still out on that one 

On this , I seriously think Goodwin could become a very good coach.

He's certainly shown a preparedness to design a style that can win ( all things going well on the day) as well as an ability to mix it up.

His current status reminds me of a junior golfer learning to play the game, not just hit the ball. Often theyll not have a  full bag of clubs but have an 'odd' assortment.

You can know what you're doing and get beaten. You can also get beaten if not knowing enough.

Far too early to judge him as a "golfer" but many of his games and club selection give rise to curiosity.

This analogy also attends his style. He wants a no-nonsense persona to display and tends to no-nonsense participants.

What often separates a good golfer from success is the ability to read the course and elements.

So easy to stuff a Good Win with one slice or hook into the sand or shrubbery !!

Might be an opportune moment for Simon to adjust his stance as well...eh what !! :rolleyes:

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11 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I'd love to know what Jordan Lewis thinks about this.

 

 

Looking back at his AFL 360 comments after the Collingwood loss I wouldn't be surprised if he was talking about Jack and is one of the players driving him out.... 

No inside knowledge just my opinion :)

 

Edited by GCDee
Typo

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12 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I'd love to know what Jordan Lewis thinks about this.

On SEN this morning Tyson said he played golf a few days ago with Jack, Lewis and Roughy.

Make of that what you will.

I reckon Jack still has a few friends in the playing group.

Edited by Lucifer's Hero

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4 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

On SEN this morning Tyson said he played golf a few days ago with Jack, Lewis and Roughy.

Make of that what you will.

I reckon Jack still has a few friends in the playing group.

He is very popular, not that that should matter too much. But seriously, how hard is it to only have members of the FD take media for a couple of weeks so that players like Jack and Dom don't do BS spots on TV and radio.

There is your disconnect at the club - no-one tells the media bloke anything...

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9 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

On this , I seriously think Goodwin could become a very good coach.

He's certainly shown a preparedness to design a style that can win ( all things going well on the day) as well as an ability to mix it up.

His current status reminds me of a junior golfer learning to play the game, not just hit the ball. Often theyll not have a  full bag of clubs but have an 'odd' assortment.

You can know what you're doing and get beaten. You can also get beaten if not knowing enough.

Far too early to judge him as a "golfer" but many of his games and club selection give rise to curiosity.

This analogy also attends his style. He wants a no-nonsense persona to display and tends to no-nonsense participants.

What often separates a good golfer from success is the ability to read the course and elements.

So easy to stuff a Good Win with one slice or hook into the sand or shrubbery !!

Might be an opportune moment for Simon to adjust his stance as well...eh what !! :rolleyes:

Interesting analogy, but I'm not sure about some of his tactics

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2 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Interesting analogy, but I'm not sure about some of his tactics

Nor am I

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Like many here I am emotionally invested in Jack Watts and would like for him to be part of a successful MFC team after all he has been through.

but

there will be no successful MFC team if there are any passengers who do not commit 100% - plus our emerging talent has to see that they cannot take any shortcuts and be elite no matter how much talent you have.

so 

either jack has just been given a massive rocket (and shock) and commits totally to the rest of his career at MFC, or more likely, we get something useful in a trade AND the rest of the playing group sees that this football administration is ruthless in its pursuit of success - so they can get on board or be moved on. If any of the players don't like it they will be moved on as well.

emotionally I would grieve a bit if Jack goes, but I love the club more, and I wrapt that I think we are finally doing what needs to be done to be successful - rather than a nice club that perennially makes up the numbers. 

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In the lead up to the GF, every analyst is talking about structures, and in particular defensive pressure within the forward lines. Jack Watts has got more talent than every Richmond forward bar Jack Riewoldt. Would the Richmond forwardline function better with Jack Watts? I doubt it, because it's all based on pressure.

Last week on SEN, Goodwin was asked about ideal forward structures, and said that you have to predominantly work with the strengths you have. He mentioned Petracca, Hogan and T Mac. No mention of Watts.

Watts is a skillful player, but what role does he play in our forward structure? He's not a prolific goalkicker. He's poor at creating contests because he doesn't hit packs. He's poor at defensive pressure. ANB and Hannan are less talented, but the FD obviously believe that they complement our strengths. In 9 years and under 4 coaches, Watts has never been able to cement a defined role within the team.

Why wouldn't we be looking to trade him while he has some sort of currency?

 

 

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Don't want to see Jack leave but I would be really [censored] off if the club changed it's mind because of a supporter backlash. Have to believe the club knows what it is doing. Make that Knows what it is doing now.  https://www.change.org/p/melbourne-football-club-keep-jack-watts-at-the-melbourne-football-club/nftexp/ex5/v4/34902785?recruiter=34902785&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_content=ex5%3Av4

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3 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

 

That comment plus other posters saying key players want Watts out is sounding like Stringer Mark11!  Not in the sense of the level of misdemeanour but more in the dynamics around how is being pushed out of the club.

 

Goodwin is a Rookie coach.  As @Ron Burgundyeloquently says in above post: The problem with most first year coaches is that they try too hard. They squeeze the grip too hard, they lack soft hands, they micro manage far too much.  Let him breathe Simon.

I would like to see Goodwin take up the challenge to get the best from Jack rather than turf him out and some other club reap the reward with a coach who treats each player as an individual and knows which buttons to press to achieve their best.  

At the moment it looks like he is washing his hands of 'a problem' that he seems unable, impatient or unwilling to try and 'fix'.

Goodwin has been at the MFC for 4 years with JW and is now a 2nd year Coach.

Reckon he might know a bit more about JW than some on here.

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15 minutes ago, Hogan2014 said:

Jack is one of the most exciting players on the list and capable of making the most of opportunities that other players are incapable due to a lesser skill-set. That fact and just reading Shwartz and Roos' arguments lauding his value to the MFC playing list are good enough for me. 👍

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6 hours ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

I just can't accept that we're going to trade out our best kick when week after week we drop games through terrible disposal.  The one guy in our side who can hit a forward target and they want to get rid of him.  I guess we'll just have to be happy with high bombs to the hot spot and watching the ball rebound the length of the ground for an opposition goal every time. 

Its hard for him to hit Hogan lace out if he's at Casey due to effort or wont put in those final hard steps to win the ball in the first place. No one is saying he is not a great kick but there are plenty more facets to being a great or even good player than being a great kick. 

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20 minutes ago, rpfc said:

He is very popular, not that that should matter too much. But seriously, how hard is it to only have members of the FD take media for a couple of weeks so that players like Jack and Dom don't do BS spots on TV and radio.

There is your disconnect at the club - no-one tells the media bloke anything...

Maybe the media department is on holidays...

...gone missing after the round 23 communications debacle. 

Re communications around Watts:

  • Beveridge had it right with Stringer.  Do the deadly deed.  Wear the backlash for a few days and everyone moves on. 
  • Instead we have a captain and coach dragging out a vague, negative narrative about Watts.  Then the news he is being traded leaks and gains momentum, supporters raising petitions, ex club characters and team mates publicly support him, reports of conflict among FD decision makers.  Unless someone at the club comes out and says something akin to Beveridge this will drag out for weeks.  All very messy.

So the question you imply is very valid:  Where is the media department?  Who is managing the public face of the club atm?

Answer...?

I was beginning to think mfc had become a well run and well disciplined club off the field: internal harmony, no leaks, consistent public messaging, strong leadership etc.

Since round 23 that solidity off field does not seem as strong as I thought it was.

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35 minutes ago, mo64 said:

In the lead up to the GF, every analyst is talking about structures, and in particular defensive pressure within the forward lines. Jack Watts has got more talent than every Richmond forward bar Jack Riewoldt. Would the Richmond forwardline function better with Jack Watts? I doubt it, because it's all based on pressure.

Last week on SEN, Goodwin was asked about ideal forward structures, and said that you have to predominantly work with the strengths you have. He mentioned Petracca, Hogan and T Mac. No mention of Watts.

Watts is a skillful player, but what role does he play in our forward structure? He's not a prolific goalkicker. He's poor at creating contests because he doesn't hit packs. He's poor at defensive pressure. ANB and Hannan are less talented, but the FD obviously believe that they complement our strengths. In 9 years and under 4 coaches, Watts has never been able to cement a defined role within the team.

Why wouldn't we be looking to trade him while he has some sort of currency?

 

 

They are some good points, but Hogan's second efforts and pressure are worse than Watts. The key forward can't get away with doing nothing on that front.

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2 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Maybe the media department is on holidays...

...gone missing after the round 23 communications debacle. 

Re communications around Watts:

  • Beveridge had it right with Stringer.  Do the deadly deed.  Wear the backlash for a few days and everyone moves on. 
  • Instead we have a captain and coach dragging out a vague, negative narrative about Watts.  Then the news he is being traded leaks and gains momentum, supporters raising petitions, ex club characters and team mates publicly support him, reports of conflict among FD decision makers.  Unless someone at the club comes out and says something akin to Beveridge this will drag out for weeks.  All very messy.

So the question you imply is very valid:  Where is the media department?  Who is managing the public face of the club atm?

Answer...?

I was beginning to think mfc had become a well run and well disciplined club off the field: internal harmony, no leaks, consistent public messaging, strong leadership etc.

Since round 23 that solidity off field does not seem as strong as I thought it was.

Agree - The official MFC media response has been deafening with silence. 

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4 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

 

That comment plus other posters saying key players want Watts out is sounding like Stringer Mark11!  Not in the sense of the level of misdemeanour but more in the dynamics around how is being pushed out of the club.

 

Goodwin is a Rookie coach.  As @Ron Burgundyeloquently says in above post: The problem with most first year coaches is that they try too hard. They squeeze the grip too hard, they lack soft hands, they micro manage far too much.  Let him breathe Simon.

I would like to see Goodwin take up the challenge to get the best from Jack rather than turf him out and some other club reap the reward with a coach who treats each player as an individual and knows which buttons to press to achieve their best.  

At the moment it looks like he is washing his hands of 'a problem' that he seems unable, impatient or unwilling to try and 'fix'.

That's quite an assumption. You don't know Goodwin and you have no idea why he wants to trade Jack. I don't understand why supporters think they know more about whats going on with Watts than the bloke who coaches him.

Edited by DavidNeitz9
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34 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Goodwin has been at the MFC for 4 years with JW and is now a 2nd year Coach.

Reckon he might know a bit more about JW than some on here.

100% spot on

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52 minutes ago, Mr Steve said:

Don't want to see Jack leave but I would be really [censored] off if the club changed it's mind because of a supporter backlash. Have to believe the club knows what it is doing. Make that Knows what it is doing now.  https://www.change.org/p/melbourne-football-club-keep-jack-watts-at-the-melbourne-football-club/nftexp/ex5/v4/34902785?recruiter=34902785&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_for_starters_page&utm_content=ex5%3Av4

Seriously ?

Edited by DavidNeitz9

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If Jack stays, could he be that outside mid with skills that we need?

Im not sure there is any other position that he could play in that doesnt involve contested marking and frenetic tackling?

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