Farewell Jack Watts

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

SEN reporting Jack trying to get his head around being traded....

[PaulRB 5,919]

Jack (Jake) upon arriving at his post-season interview...

 

[AllMyTeamsAreWank 563]

Inside word I have lines up with most of what is written here. 

Got injured and requested a trip to Byron instead of focusing on rehab. Apparently this has majorly [censored] off the club. This was coming from a Storm player. 

[Dr. Gonzo 22,412]

2 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

Genuine question:

Why is this whole scenario played out in a public forum to humiliate and 'devalue' a player that is clearly not wanted?

Subjective

[Nasher 33,047]

1 hour ago, sue said:

While many of those who think the club is better off without Watts can be seen as pro MFC, there are certainly some to whom the label of anti-Watts is more appropriate.  Eg. those who apply standards to him they don't apply to other under-performing players and act as if every speculation about his behaviour is true without any evidence just because it fits their mindset about him.

Sue, it's what the club said.  It's not speculation.

We’ve been very clear this is about performance and there was some talk it might be about money, but it’s definitely not about money, it’s about performance and our expectations on a nine-year, 150 game player.

I've always been a supporter of Watts.  I've even thrown around the odd "you are just anti-Watts" barb at people in my time, and found myself on the same side of the fence as you in most issues like this one.  ProDee will be devastated if he realises I'm in his camp.  The reason I back the club on this is because it's in reference to elements of his performance not evident to the average mug who just watches footy.  I have no idea how Jack approaches training, nor do I know how he approached his rehabilitation from injury.  What I do know is: 1) he was left out of the side during the pre-season, with the club citing training standards, 2) he took a long time to recover from his injury, and 3) he was left out again shortly after his return, 4) the club is, for the third time, citing "performance and expectations" as the reason for this discussion.  It's enough for me to connect the dots.

I'm not sure what you're referring to with standards not being applied to others.  The club has not mentioned any other players not applying appropriate professional standards, and I can't tell from the outside.  Are you aware of any?

[Dee tention 611]

Mahoney on the MFC website has said if a good deal cant be found for the MFC and Jack that he will be staying. 

At least Jack knows what is expected of him.

In my opinion, its obviously upto Jack now. If he really wants to stay and commit to the MFC all he has to do is reject being traded.

I have the gut feeling he now stays in the Red & Blue.

Jack can end this right now...

Edited October 6, 2017 by Dee tention

[buck_nekkid 5,472]

20 minutes ago, AllMyTeamsAreWank said:

Inside word I have lines up with most of what is written here. 

Got injured and requested a trip to Byron instead of focusing on rehab. Apparently this has majorly [censored] off the club. This was coming from a Storm player. 

Wow.  If true, I can understand MFC having some angst.  His priorities seem out of whack.  Be different if he was going back to family for a week or so, with rehab instructions etc.  To ask to go to Byron for a break instead of being around the team is not a leadership or team first act.  No wonder the leadership group were cranky.  Very different to Hogan (father dying) or Garlett (family bereavement).  ‘Surfs up, can I go, coach?’

[Want a Flag 46]

If he requested a trip to Byron, the Club was more than within its rights to say "no stay here and do your rehab properly". If they granted him that time off they are equally guilty. Hope it was a request that was denied. Does anyone know for a fact he was in Byron?

[Glenn Molloy 494]

Convinced he'll go.  Connors on trade radio said "he was getting his head around it" and it sounded like Connors was encouraging him that it will be the best thing for him, even though it's hard for him.  If I'm Jack, I'm thinking that a move to Sydney, where it's still a big city with plenty to do, is ideal.  Will shake him out of the comfort zone but still have him at a club that is virtually certain to play finals, and in a city that he'll probably enjoy.  

[Dr. Gonzo 22,412]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I take 'poor preparation' to mean that he doesn't train well/strongly or do all the post game recovery as well as he should eg ice baths, phsio, massage, meetings etc.  And these set poor poor standards for our young players. 

Jones referred to 'poor behaviours when away from the club'.  I assume he means diet, nutrition, social habits.  Posters have talked about seeing Jack at clubs but no-one says if it is the night before training or before a game.  It sounds like Jones expects players to be committed 24/7 to football like he is but few will be 24/7 footballers.  I have mixed feelings on this.  Would love all our players to be committed 24/7 like Jones and Viney but they are all entitled to have a social life. 

Nonetheless, I think they are legitimate comments by the club but can't help but think that Jack isn't the only one guilty of them.

But, I don't assume the club means he has alcohol while on rehab or while in Byron or that those resulted in extra games missed due to injury, which was the crux of Ron B's post and sue's question.   

We can all go back and forth on this but interpretation of comments is related to our expectations of Jack.  At the end of the day the one thing we can be sure of is there has been a breakdown in his relationship with the club and it seems irretrievable. When that happens in an organisation all sorts of things get focused on, some small, some big.  We have no way of knowing which is which, nor should we know.

Now 'It is what it is' and we move on.

Fair enough, and thanks for answering.

I differ in that I DO expect the players to be 24/7 footballers - ALL of them. They're being paid well enough to act like full time professionals. Yeah in my job I'm not expected to do that but my job is different, I sit behind a desk. Getting my body into peak physical condition isn't a requirement of my role (otherwise I'd be stuffed  ). Again I can't stress enough people listen to the Dee Tales podcast with Roos, especially the second half where he talks about this kind of stuff. I want the MFC to be successful and I expect the players to make the appropriate sacrifices. I also expect those who don't to be shown the door if they won't or can't change their habits.

https://www.sen.com.au/podcasts/dee-tales/

At the end of the day they are guys in their 20's and I don't expect them to act like they live in a monastery. But they do need to realise they are in a team environment and if they want to take shortcuts or not act like 24/7 professional footballers there will be repercussions by those who crave success. Jones is getting to the end, he may not think he has another couple of years to wait for the penny to drop so he can play in a flag contender (not saying that's just about Watts either but the standards across the club).

There's been plenty of discussion about players swearing off the booze during the year or clubs imposing alcohol bans during rehab to understand that it can be an issue. Just because Watts hasn't behind had a leak at a barstool like Moloney or smashed up his car in the wee hours like Sylvia doesn't mean he isn't going out for drinks more frequently than he perhaps should. Not saying that that is necessarily the case but reading into the comments of Goodwin and Jones I can see it as a contributing factor along with some of the other issues you've mentioned.

[Stretch Johnson 2,568]

Just now, Want a Flag said:

If he requested a trip to Byron, the Club was more than within its rights to say "no stay here and do your rehab properly". If they granted him that time off they are equally guilty. Hope it was a request that was denied. Does anyone know for a fact he was in Byron?

He definitely was and I recall that he his hammy took longer than expected. 

I also recall a quote from Jack indicating that he was a little bemused that he hadn't been given clearance by the medicos to play at one stage.  This in hindsight is perhaps a bit suspicious and perhaps indicates that more was going on. 

Will try and find that quote 

[Dr. Gonzo 22,412]

4 minutes ago, Dee tention said:

Mahoney on the MFC website has said if a good deal cant be found for the MFC and Jack that he will be staying.

If that ends up being the case I won't have any issue with that at all. I doubt it will and Mahoney probably just trying to ensure we won't be dudded on a Jordan Lewis type deal but there's always a chance.

[sue 8,417]

1 minute ago, Nasher said:

Sue, it's what the club said.  It's not speculation.

We’ve been very clear this is about performance and there was some talk it might be about money, but it’s definitely not about money, it’s about performance and our expectations on a nine-year, 150 game player.

I've always been a supporter of Watts.  I've even thrown around the odd "you are just anti-Watts" barb at people in my time, and found myself on the same side of the fence as you in most issues like this one.  ProDee will be devastated if he realises I'm in his camp.  The reason I back the club on this is because it's in reference to elements of his performance not evident to the average mug who just watches footy.  I have no idea how Jack approaches training, nor do I know how he approached his rehabilitation from injury.  What I do know is: 1) he was left out of the side during the pre-season, with the club citing training standards, 2) he took a long time to recover from his injury, and 3) he was left out again shortly after his return.    

I'm not sure what you're referring to with standards not being applied to others.  The club has not mentioned any other players not applying appropriate professional standards, and I can't tell from the outside.  Are you aware of any?

I respect your views, you have not engaged in the sort of comments I was referring to.  I have already said that I only was finally moved to vote 'keep Watts' in response to some of the downright nasty things others had said (lucky I'm not in the FD then).  As for your 3 points that you 'know', only the first is clear cut, the significance of the other 2 are still subect to speculation until we leanr otehrwise form an authorative source. 

As for others not being subjected to the same standards, I was merely pointing out that there are plenty of disappointing players other than Watts who have not been subjected to the same level of scutiny and criticism. Why they are underperforming is another matter.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,412]

1 hour ago, sue said:

While many of those who think the club is better off without Watts can be seen as pro MFC, there are certainly some to whom the label of anti-Watts is more appropriate.  Eg. those who apply standards to him they don't apply to other under-performing players and act as if every speculation about his behaviour is true without any evidence just because it fits their mindset about him.

Who are the other under-performing players? Have they had issues with their preparation & application? How do you know they haven't been spoken to about this? How do you know Watts hasn't been spoken to about this on multiple occasions and the coaches/FD are at the end of their tether?

[sue 8,417]

7 minutes ago, buck_nekkid said:

Wow.  If true, I can understand MFC having some angst.  His priorities seem out of whack.  Be different if he was going back to family for a week or so, with rehab instructions etc.  To ask to go to Byron for a break instead of being around the team is not a leadership or team first act.  No wonder the leadership group were cranky.  Very different to Hogan (father dying) or Garlett (family bereavement).  ‘Surfs up, can I go, coach?’

umm, to ask is one thing.  But it seems the Club said yes.  Doubtless some will say the Club had already given up on him and couldn't care less what he did.  I'd hope the Club is not that dumb given he was put back in the team.  Assuming any of this is true of course.

[sue 8,417]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Who are the other under-performing players? Have they had issues with their preparation & application? How do you know they haven't been spoken to about this? How do you know Watts hasn't been spoken to about this on multiple occasions and the coaches/FD are at the end of their tether?

1. A large part of the team, regularly criticised on this forum.

2. & 3. No idea.  Don't see how it bears on the issue.  I was referring to posters on this forum, not the FD.

3. Quite likely he was spoken to more than once. It seems clear that at least some of the FD are at the end of their tether or similar, did I say they weren't?

Demonlands can rant all they like. But why the FD did it in public?   And no, I'm not reposting my reasons why that was not a good idea.

[Sir Why You Little 34,430]

2 hours ago, ProDee said:

I'm told there's an anti Watts brigade.  For me it's more a pro MFC brigade, as evidenced by my username. 

I'm drawn to Paul Roos' final speech at the MFC during the 2016 B&F.  As he wound up he delivered a message to the players.  He said, "Decide to be great.  It's a decision and doesn't happen by accident."  He went on to say that "it doesn't start on November 5 at Goody's first training session, it starts tonight".

During last off-season Jack made decisions, but they didn't echo Roos' sentiments.  He never decided to be great.

Don’t always agree with ProDee but on this one he is spot on

those were the words Roosy left the MFC with

some took notice...

[nosoupforme 3,085]

On 9/6/2017 at 9:39 AM, PaulRB said:

Noticed on 360 footy that Jack Watts was nominated as our most likely trade player... so figure I'd ask the question. 

Do we trade Jack Watts? Or not? 

You trade JW and do we get someone the equal?   Howe for Kennedy what a great swap  Wheres Kennedy now?  Due respect to Kennedy. I can go on. We have a player like JW that can help improve us. He will probably finish in our top 10 best this year. Higher than some other high profiles at the club.

How can the club justify him by pushing him to look somewhere else? Find some other trade Melbourne. Let him play for the club he loves. HAVE SOME LOYALTY.

[daisycutter 28,485]

only 6 pages to go

will all be revealed then?

stay tuned

[Sir Why You Little 34,430]

30 minutes ago, Dee tention said:

Mahoney on the MFC website has said if a good deal cant be found for the MFC and Jack that he will be staying. 

At least Jack knows what is expected of him.

In my opinion, its obviously upto Jack now. If he really wants to stay and commit to the MFC all he has to do is reject being traded.

I have the gut feeling he now stays in the Red & Blue.

Jack can end this right now...

That is what i have thought ever since this event all started. 

Jack can end it all by committing to a new work ethic-if he wishes

if he wants to keep up the Col Sylvia lifestyle, that will be at another club which won’t end nicely. 

[Axis of Bob 10,207]

23 minutes ago, nosoupforme said:

Howe for Kennedy what a great swap 

That wasn't the deal.

In fact it was part of a series of trades that got us Clayton Oliver.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Axis of Bob
Added the Oliver bit.

[Ethan Tremblay 28,358]

Will he stay or will he go? Nobody knows. All will be revealed sometime next week or could it be the following week? How long does trade period go for? #ETthetradebreaker. 

[binman 37,926]

I listened to the Roos interview on deetales last night. Brilliant interview. One of the best and most expansive interview i have heard with anyone directly involved with the dees. Roos is relaxed and remarkably open, in a way i suggest is unlikely in a normal media gig.  I recommend  giving it a listen if interested in the last few years at the dees

As has been noted in this thread he touches on Watts (from 5.23 min), but that is only a very small part of what of what is a very wide ranging discussion. That said Roos addresses many of the issues raised in this thread by posters on both sides of the argument.

To be transparent in my position i agree with most of what Roosy says, with one exception. I''m not sure if its a mistake to trade him or not in so far as i fully respect Goodwin's right to make the call and i don't know what the basis is for the decision (Roos acknowledges the same thing). If Goody and the FD decide it is the right decision then that is good enough for me. That doesn't mean i agree with it,  have to like it or that i won't be upset to lose Watts. But it is Goody's team and as someone pointed out the club is privy to data and other information (eg how well or otherwise jack approached his rehab or off season) that we - and Roos - are not.  Also Jack may simply not fit Goody's game plan or type of player he wants (eg not intense enough).

All that said, in light of the debate that is raging here on DL i did find Roosy's comments fascinating given who he is and how well he knows our team. Here are some selected quotes on three of the questions and issues that have been covered in this thread:

Are you a Watts fan

'i'm a huge Watts fan'

'an outstanding player' 

'a very, very good player'

'he elevated his game, certainly in my last year'

'an elite kick, an elite decision maker

'i'm a massive Jack Watts fan'

'he's got weakness and some of them are his responsibility to address' 

'i would take Jack Watts over Jake stringer every day of the week' (this was in the context of what roos said was the unfair criticism of jack compared to a player like Stringer who has been dropped multiple times over the last 2 years, and who by the by some people are saying is worth a high first round draft pick)

'the perception of jack Watts is just crazy .......its completely unrealistic'

Are they doing the right thing to trade him?

'i'd be disappointed personally but i don't know whats going on'

'i think its a big mistake to trade him but i don't know, i'm only basing that on what i saw last year and this year'

'you need a mix of players to play in your premiership'

Roos finished the discussion on Watts with this unequivocal comment: 'i think it would be a mistake to get rid of him'

Does he impact games enough

'the sort of player that wins you games, certainly in the last two years'

'he has won 6-8 games in the last two years, unquestionably'

'the sort of player every team needs'

'if i was another club and Melbourne rang me and said would you like Jack Watts i couldn't hold of him quick enough' 

'i know there was some criticism of him this year but the games i saw him play he impacted'

 

 

[wheaters31 564]

On 9/28/2017 at 5:49 PM, wheaters31 said:

On SEN they mentioned Geelong are interested in Watts, along with Collingwood, West Coast and Port.

I can see Geelong using him to fill the role of Menzel. They seemed to be targeting Stringer for that but he seems to be off to Essendon. I can see them diverting their attention to Watts after that. Now pick 20 from the Cats would be a perfect price for Watts IMO. He'll also like taking over the no. 4 at the cattery following Mackie's departure too. 

With Watts meeting Geelong today (according to Mitch Cleary), it is good for us that Adelaide have offered a big offer to Motlop. Means Geelong may get an even better compensation pick for losing him. They currently have picks 20 and 33.

Edited October 6, 2017 by wheaters31

[sue 8,417]

Reading Binman's summary one post back of what Roos said, I'm amazed that so many on here think they know better than Roos who just has a smidgen of more inside knowledge than we do (though is honest enough to admit he 'doesn't know what's going on'). 

For me it raises a worrying question mark over Goodwin. I just have to hope he knows what he is doing.