Farewell Jack Watts

[McQueen 17,862]

2 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Looks like pies are interested in Jack. http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-10-04/trade-wrap-magpies-enter-the-ring-for-watts Now that Stringer has nominated Essendon, Geelong's reported interest in Jack might ramp up.  WCE, Port and Syd reported as also interested.  And I recall hearing the Bulldogs have some interest.  They all need a forward or a link man.

Mahoney sounded almost angry this morning and my take was there was little chance of Jack staying.  They will probably take whatever pick they can get and looking at the picks those clubs hold it could easily be a late second round.   

Methinks there is a fire sale coming up.  Sad

 

I'm more sad about Tom Petty passing.

[grazman 6,414]

12 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Ruthless? Perhaps.

But is ruthlessness always such a public flogging? Of an asset you are trying to move? That has two years left on a contract he signed 12 months ago?

Here's my take on it RPFC.

1.  This is the first year Goodwin has had full and unfettered control of the list.  Last year while the coaching transition from Roos (who is an unabashed Jack Watts fan), to Goodwin was in play would have been too soon for Goodwin to make such a call.  

2. We know there were issues pre-season with Jack's preparation (this is true of every club) and according to at least one poster on DL there were issues with Jack and his attitude on the Pre-season Commando course. 

3.  Jack signed a good contract last year and again according to sources - Goodwin and Co. believe if you are going to take your slice of the pie then your performance needs to warrant that slice.  Jack was dropped this year. There are clearly issues that the coaching group were unhappy with.

4.  Goodwin is building a game plan and style around a very physical and contested ball winning model.  This is not and never has been Jack's go.  While I appreciate he is a sublimely talented player, I also think he is completely unsuited to this type of game plan that demands the same standard from every player.  Jack just doesn't enjoy the contact element of football.  His inability to keep his feet in a contest and failure to create second and third efforts as a natural part of his game are a liability where this needs to be a non-negotiable element of every player on the list.

5. I have no doubt that the club has given Jack clear instructions and direction during the pre-season and the season proper about what he needed to do in terms of his preparation and playing.  I doubt he's on his Pat Malone there, but comments from the club indicate that they were worried about the influence this was having on others in the playing group.  There are issues that clearly the club doesn't want or can't elaborate on further. I have my doubts that the penny dropped for Jack, hence some of his comments during the last week or so.

6. Given his comments at the TAB luncheon yesterday it was obvious to the club, that Jack was thinking there might be a chance the door might still be open of him remaining at the club. Though clearly Paul Connors had a better grasp of the situation.

7. The club was left with little option to publicly hose down Jack's expectations (well at least his publicly stated expectations)  that there maybe a reconciliation with the FD and he would now be left with little doubt that he needs to accept his footballing future is not with the MFC.

I know the club has not always treated Jack that well in the past and he has been loyal and I get that some supporters are upset, but my litmus test here is his manager.  When you read between the lines this isn't really a surprise to Paul Connors and he can't fault Melbourne's approach.  What this indicates to me is Jack should have been paying attention more closely to the change in management and taking more seriously the expectations the club had of him as one of its more experienced and better paid players. 

 

[Dr.D 1,771]

People worried about Watts playing a blinder against us? He had 2 blinders in his 150 games, lol! He'll be delisted in 2 seasons. Another feather in Goodwins cap.

[Cards13 9,117]

3 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

1 Clear lack of professionalism by Goodwin. 

2 What was the lack of professionalism by Watts?  Not training hard enough.?  What a joke.  No heavy drinking or breaking club rules. 

3 Standards? Try loyalty - Watts has it.  

4 standards? Sticking to a contract.  Try that. 

Kent  Bugg  Vince should all go now. Not adhering to standards  

Wiseblood again is wrong. Again very very wrong. I’ve lost count. Getting tedious.  Big insult from a little man shows lack of your professionalism

 

Goodwin, Jones and now Mahoney have all come out to discuss "Watts" lacking from Watts, 9 yrs/150 games etc etc. If you're riding Goody for lack of professionalism then throw the other 2 in, who have not been accused of that before.

Maybe.. just maybe it sits with the player.. contract or not.

This is not some random, off the cuff, emotional outburst. A clearly thought plan, from the club, to see "if this will get him to give 100%."

 

[Mazer Rackham 14,968]

14 minutes ago, No10 said:

Yes, Watts had a poor final game. But so did Jones.

What's the message they're sending? Maybe they should trade out Jones too? I'd argue he's the one I look to step up and lead in those games we must win.

If the clubs feels that way I won't argue against them.

[grazman 6,414]

16 minutes ago, No10 said:

Yes, Watts had a poor final game. But so did Jones.

What's the message they're sending? Maybe they should trade out Jones too? I'd argue he's the one I look to step up and lead in those games we must win.

I doubt that is the metric they're using to make their decision... so I doubt that the comparison is valid. 

[nosoupforme 3,085]

12 hours ago, Redleg said:

I have Melbourne mates who can't stand Jack. They say he is a squib, is probably the only 196cm player in the AFL who doesn't take pack marks, is never hard at the contest, applies no pressure and doesn't tackle and has played a few good games this year and last and that is all you will ever get out of him.

They have wanted him gone for a few years and know nothing about his training and outside footy activities but can't stand him.

Obviously they are not alone in these views.

POOR SOLES YOUR MATES. they are not criycs then, they are abusers. GOOD  MATES AE.

[nosoupforme 3,085]

12 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I doubt you'd want to hear it even if he did.

That's ok  lm grown up lol

[Mazer Rackham 14,968]

22 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

2 What was the lack of professionalism by Watts?  Not training hard enough.?  What a joke.  No heavy drinking or breaking club rules. 

3 Standards? Try loyalty - Watts has it.  

4 standards? Sticking to a contract.  Try that.

 

If we stuck to that list, we'd have a team full of Matt Joneses, Dean Terliches and Jordie McKenzies. Which we did try and it wasn't inspiring.

If that list was all that counts, then I am an AFL standard player.

Time to try something different. A bit of tough love for the lads.

Goodwin won't die wondering. This will be his last gig as a senior coach and he has to do it his way.

[MadAsHell 4,088]

54 minutes ago, No10 said:

Exactly this. No chance he stays.

Roos said there's no way he would trade Watts. The years under Roos saw Jack's immense potential emerge. And Watts wasn't the only one. Gawn became AA and Hunt an unexpected star. All three went backwards in '17.

Watts gone. This is now about Goody as a coach.

 You do realize Gawn missed a huge portion of the season and Hunt actually improve this year

[nosoupforme 3,085]

23 minutes ago, McQueen said:

I'm more sad about Tom Petty passing.

Me 2.

oh l did listen to Mahoney ,was it the same interview?

 

[Goodvibes 3,596]

28 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

1 Clear lack of professionalism by Goodwin. 

2 What was the lack of professionalism by Watts?  Not training hard enough.?  What a joke.  No heavy drinking or breaking club rules. 

3 Standards? Try loyalty - Watts has it.  

4 standards? Sticking to a contract.  Try that. 

Kent  Bugg  Vince should all go now. Not adhering to standards  

Wiseblood again is wrong. Again very very wrong. I’ve lost count. Getting tedious.  Big insult from a little man shows lack of your professionalism

 

There's a lot of cyberspace being wasted dancing around this issue but I believe this to be the core issue. Mahoney was as clear as he could be this morning. Jack doesn't work hard enough, train hard enough and isn't providing the example our young list need from one of the more experienced players on this list. It is patently clear that "not training hard enough" is not seen by our footy dept as a joke. It's in fact why we're here in the first place. It's evident you've lost faith in our coaching team and therefore don't share their view. But how could you possibly question them with such certainty? They have seen Jack day in day out for years. The evidence is at their fingertips and they've made a call. You can disagree with their call based on your outside perspective but slamming Goodwin and co every post is getting pretty tiresome.

[nosoupforme 3,085]

23 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

Goodwin, Jones and now Mahoney have all come out to discuss "Watts" lacking from Watts, 9 yrs/150 games etc etc. If you're riding Goody for lack of professionalism then throw the other 2 in, who have not been accused of that before.

Maybe.. just maybe it sits with the player.. contract or not.

This is not some random, off the cuff, emotional outburst. A clearly thought plan, from the club, to see "if this will get him to give 100%."

 

I AGREE BIG TIME. 

I HOPE  OR PRAY THAT HE STAYS..    WHAT EVER CHANCE THERE IS. 

[rpfc 27,391]

58 minutes ago, Roger Mellie said:

The way you present this is, if he leaves he will be eaten alive. If he stays at the MFC, then what? He gets protected? 

I would hope he's on the same notice at the MFC, otherwise he may as well be is a mascot.

It is the way you read it as opposed to the way I presented it:

This thread embodies the discussion, the disagreement, the torn opinion of loyal Demons - there will be no schism at other clubs - he will be laid to waste at the first sign of a downturn in performance (even performances that a role player can't effect in any meaningful way). That was my point, and I don't see it as the protection of Dees fans/members/FD - I see it as perspective.

 

[nosoupforme 3,085]

16 minutes ago, grazman said:

I doubt that is the metric they're using to make their decision... so I doubt that the comparison is valid. 

Sorry but JW had a better game than many infact he was one of our best. his game was of a good standard.

Against Clwood .

[grazman 6,414]

Not saying he didn't - just questioning the logic of the comparison that was being made.

[spirit of norm smith 12,836]

11 minutes ago, Goodvibes said:

There's a lot of cyberspace being wasted dancing around this issue but I believe this to be the core issue. Mahoney was as clear as he could be this morning. Jack doesn't work hard enough, train hard enough and isn't providing the example our young list need from one of the more experienced players on this list. It is patently clear that "not training hard enough" is not seen by our footy dept as a joke. It's in fact why we're here in the first place. It's evident you've lost faith in our coaching team and therefore don't share their view. But how could you possibly question them with such certainty? They have seen Jack day in day out for years. The evidence is at their fingertips and they've made a call. You can disagree with their call based on your outside perspective but slamming Goodwin and co every post is getting pretty tiresome.

Roos was class. He knew how to get the best out of players. He never blamed the players. 

Goodwin had done it after 1 year. Goodwin was unprofessional. First it was inconsistent play. Then it was Watts was in a rut. I’m not slamming anyone else. Get the facts. 

Is it now training standards and example setting? Ok then it’s a third reason trotted out. Or maybe free up salary cap room for Lever? 

[Grapeviney 8,810]

1 hour ago, ChewyOnMyBoot said:

No issues from the FD under Paul Roos - a coach known for building strong, resilient cultures - but once he left it seems as though it didn't take long for the shoit to hit the fan.

Nothing’s hit the fan.

Those discomfited by the Watts situation should be reassured by the Lever endorsement.

At the same time the club is trying to move on a player with questionable standards and preparation, another player with those qualities in spades - one of the competition’s most promising youngsters - has declared he won’t play anywhere but at Melbourne. 

Far from undermining the culture that Roos started building, Goodwin is strengthening it, and the players are 100 per cent behind him, evidenced by the fact that every single one of them has re-signed in the past 12-18 months.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Grapeviney

[nosoupforme 3,085]

7 minutes ago, grazman said:

Not saying he didn't - just questioning the logic of the comparison that was being made.

That's fine l was  Quoting

[Goodvibes 3,596]

1 minute ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Roos was class. He knew how to get the best out of players. He never blamed the players. 

Goodwin had done it after 1 year. Goodwin was unprofessional. First it was inconsistent play. Then it was Watts was in a rut. I’m not slamming anyone else. Get the facts. 

Is it now training standards and example setting? Ok then it’s a third reason trotted out. Or maybe free up salary cap room for Lever? 

These are not facts. The quotes are real but your view of those quotes are opinions. Don't confuse the two. The bottom line is you don't think not training hard enough in pursuit of a premiership is a bid deal. I do. Particularly when the player in question has been at the club for 9 years.

[nosoupforme 3,085]

43 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

People worried about Watts playing a blinder against us? He had 2 blinders in his 150 games, lol! He'll be delisted in 2 seasons. Another feather in Goodwins cap.

Which games were the 2 blinders ?

[nosoupforme 3,085]

6 minutes ago, Goodvibes said:

These are not facts. The quotes are real but your view of those quotes are opinions. Don't confuse the two. The bottom line is you don't think not training hard enough in pursuit of a premiership is a bid deal. I do. Particularly when the player in question has been at the club for 9 years.

lol

[At the break of Gawn 3,474]

52 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

People worried about Watts playing a blinder against us? He had 2 blinders in his 150 games, lol! He'll be delisted in 2 seasons. Another feather in Goodwins cap.

One thing that this thread has highlighted to me is that we really need a "thumbs down" reaction for this forum. The angry face one just doesn't encapsulate the reaction of a [censored] post like a thumbs down does. 

Edited October 4, 2017 by At the break of Gawn

[DaveyDee 421]

2 hours ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

This has become a really shitty and ugly situation.

It's no longer just whether or not Watts should stay or go it's how  does the MFC emerge from this  fiasco with any pretensions to be being honourable or professional.

The club has handled this very poorly.

However, it always does this time of the year. Every club in Victoria will have a crack at him, we will have our say. Then if he stays or goes the MFC will move forward and get prepared to play round 1 2018. 

[GoD's67 111]

1 hour ago, No10 said:

Exactly this. No chance he stays.

Roos said there's no way he would trade Watts. The years under Roos saw Jack's immense potential emerge. And Watts wasn't the only one. Gawn became AA and Hunt an unexpected star. All three went backwards in '17.

Watts gone. This is now about Goody as a coach.

Gawn was injured for 12 weeks, Hunt pole axed his head against the Crows and took a long while to recover, Watts also struggled with injury.

Vs

Oliver improved out of site! ANB & Petracca both improved.

Team improved wins & %.