Farewell Jack Watts

[nosoupforme 3,085]

2 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

It is telling that the club has put on the mfc website the AFL article where Goodwin puts the trade Jack story  http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2017-10-02/-watts-cycle-hasnt-changed-goodwin

Note: the issue is no longer about 'failing expectations' it is about 'being in a rut'.

But it has not put up this AFL article where Jack states his love for the club: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-10-03/i-love-the-club-watts-not-keen-to-leave

Articles usually go up on club websites within a few hours of the AFL issuing them eg The Lever story is on the mfc website so there is no reason why the Jack story isn't there.

 

I'm not liking how our club is handling this.  If they put up one side of the story they should put up the other.  It seems the club is reluctant to do that.  I think supporters should be provided access to Jack's position whether the club likes it or not.

I think Goodwin owes us an explanation for Watts' treatment.Did he do something wrong? Did he turn up his nose at Goodwin?

There is something that has stirred the pot.

[nosoupforme 3,085]

1 minute ago, nosoupforme said:

I think Goodwin owes us an explanation for Watts' treatment.Did he do something wrong? Did he turn up his nose at Goodwin?

There is something that has stirred the pot.

1964 million dollar question.

[London Demon 256]

We simply must keep Watts. MFC supporters have suffered so much and now we all feel that we are as close to success as we have been for 20 years, but to hang out JW to dry like this, after  the sad history of his career mismanagement, and the loyalty he has shown, would IMO be a stain which would  hurt the club, including the players. We shouldn't do it.  Remember the decision to move on James McDonald?  It was done for perfectly rational player list reasons,  but it was a mistake, and it did hurt us. Watts is liked and popular around the club, the other players won't want him to pushed out like this.  That photo with Gawn says it all.  Decisions like this are of course mainly about dispassionate judgement but intangibles like loyalty and the love for a club, which this player clearly has, can't just be disregarded. I wouldn't be saying this if Watts was a  dudd, but  he's  a good player, we are a better side when he is playing well, and while I have at times been as infuriated with him as anyone else, he has over the last 2 years been generally  good.  You don't just cast aside A grade quality players like him. You persist, keep working with him.  I'm very confident  that if we keep him, he will be so fired up and determined that he'll repay us.    

[Demon Dynasty 15,205]

2 hours ago, rpfc said:

Those of us who disagree would argue that 'Trading Watts = Standards Lifted' is an oversimplification and one last act of scapegoating Watts for the ills of the past.

"He has done nothing for 9 years" some cry - but will they give Weideman the benefit of the doubt for his two underwhelming years? Of course.

"Hadn't shown anything before 2016" is another call to the heavens and yet those some Dees supporters would argue that until 2014 the club was an absolute shambles and couldn't develop a Polaroid.

The standards at the beginning of the season that were not met should be the fundamental and only point of argument for moving Watts on. They definitely can be - but I would plead with Goodwin to run that bus over Kent, JKH, and the other two delistees who were apart of that midseason drinking session.

Let's share that love around, because it doesn't sit well with me that there is one singular sacrificial lamb on the altar of 'standards.'

RP i think this says it all.  Except i believe that pleading with Goodwin (and/or Macca and possibly most within the FD) would fall on deaf ears.

If i am not mistaken, I believe you rank fairly highly in terms of your closeness to some in higher places in the MFC.  

Might your displeasure (and other D'landers') be better targeted at those a little higher up the tree if Watts is to avoid being turned into Goodwin's sacrificial goat i wonder?

Edited October 3, 2017 by Rusty Nails

[Dee Zephyr 17,307]

14 minutes ago, nosoupforme said:

1964 million dollar question.

The one billion, nine hundred and sixty four million dollar question. Never heard that one before.

[spirit of norm smith 12,839]

22 minutes ago, London Demon said:

We simply must keep Watts. MFC supporters have suffered so much and now we all feel that we are as close to success as we have been for 20 years, but to hang out JW to dry like this, after  the sad history of his career mismanagement, and the loyalty he has shown, would IMO be a stain which would  hurt the club, including the players. We shouldn't do it.  Remember the decision to move on James McDonald?  It was done for perfectly rational player list reasons,  but it was a mistake, and it did hurt us. Watts is liked and popular around the club, the other players won't want him to pushed out like this.  That photo with Gawn says it all.  Decisions like this are of course mainly about dispassionate judgement but intangibles like loyalty and the love for a club, which this player clearly has, can't just be disregarded. I wouldn't be saying this if Watts was a  dudd, but  he's  a good player, we are a better side when he is playing well, and while I have at times been as infuriated with him as anyone else, he has over the last 2 years been generally  good.  You don't just cast aside A grade quality players like him. You persist, keep working with him.  I'm very confident  that if we keep him, he will be so fired up and determined that he'll repay us.    

Well said. It’s ugly. It’s divisive. It repels what a footy club is about.  

[nosoupforme 3,085]

16 minutes ago, Demon77 said:

The one billion, nine hundred and sixty four million dollar question. Never heard that one before.

Read it slow. DDDDDEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRR What do you think it means.

[Demon Dynasty 15,205]

55 minutes ago, nosoupforme said:

I think Goodwin owes us an explanation for Watts' treatment.Did he do something wrong? Did he turn up his nose at Goodwin?

There is something that has stirred the pot.

 

54 minutes ago, nosoupforme said:

1964 million dollar question.

Maybe Watts owes the club an explanation if some of the pre-season (mid season?) allegations have any truth to them.  But even if there is some truth, maybe the club owes it to Watts to work through this with him and stay the course.  For he may have problems / issues that run deeper or are more serious than any on here (or those outside the four walls of the club) know about.

Clubs are defined not just by the acts that players commit to and carry out on the field of battle, but also by how it treats each of its coaches, admin staff, coterie, sponsors and most importantly its supporters/members AND players, during its ongoing journey when striving to be "better" as individual citizens and as an AFL entity.

Pure speculation, but if Watts is or was in a darkish place or a place he has now decided he no longer wishes to be or go back to, and we now turn our back on him as a club.....are we better or worse as individuals and as a club for doing so?

Forgiveness, brotherhood, human kindness and helping each other to strive to be better, off the field of battle, should surely be as important as aspects like guts, drive, professionalism and hard work ethic that we as a club (i assume from the President, CEO, Coach and FD right down to the boot studder) espouse to "on the field".

Clubs are often defined by how they manage and acquit themselves in both aspects.  I can only hope the hierarchy and FD at the MFC recognise this and change their current (apparent) course with one Mr J Watts.

GET AROUND HIM BOYS!!

 

Edited October 3, 2017 by Rusty Nails

[Dee Zephyr 17,307]

7 minutes ago, nosoupforme said:

Read it slow. DDDDDEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRR What do you think it means.

Lol, I don't know, can you explain it to me please?

And please don't yell, it's late.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Demon77

[nosoupforme 3,085]

37 minutes ago, London Demon said:

We simply must keep Watts. MFC supporters have suffered so much and now we all feel that we are as close to success as we have been for 20 years, but to hang out JW to dry like this, after  the sad history of his career mismanagement, and the loyalty he has shown, would IMO be a stain which would  hurt the club, including the players. We shouldn't do it.  Remember the decision to move on James McDonald?  It was done for perfectly rational player list reasons,  but it was a mistake, and it did hurt us. Watts is liked and popular around the club, the other players won't want him to pushed out like this.  That photo with Gawn says it all.  Decisions like this are of course mainly about dispassionate judgement but intangibles like loyalty and the love for a club, which this player clearly has, can't just be disregarded. I wouldn't be saying this if Watts was a  dudd, but  he's  a good player, we are a better side when he is playing well, and while I have at times been as infuriated with him as anyone else, he has over the last 2 years been generally  good.  You don't just cast aside A grade quality players like him. You persist, keep working with him.  I'm very confident  that if we keep him, he will be so fired up and determined that he'll repay us.    

Be careful what you say there too many JW critics on this ?????? site.  Don't let them know that l agree with you.

[nosoupforme 3,085]

5 minutes ago, Demon77 said:

Lol, I don't know, can you explain it to me please?

1964 last flag and the million dollar question and the next one? who knows?

[Dr.D 1,771]

it all comes down to how we rate watts. goodwin doesn't rate him and either do i.  i dont recall him backing into a pack once in his 9 year career. his tackling efforts are nothing short of a disgrace. 

[nosoupforme 3,085]

1 minute ago, Dr.D said:

it all comes down to how we rate watts. goodwin doesn't rate him and either do i.  i dont recall him backing into a pack once in his 9 year career. his tackling efforts are nothing short of a disgrace. 

What a critic you are you must be blind . 

[Demon Dynasty 15,205]

Sometimes you don't have to have a great day out or an amazing season to be a winner.  You just need to be the right man in the right place at the right time.....There is no one else i would want the ball to be in the hands of at the MFC if this were a shot to win a big final or a Premiership!!

[nosoupforme 3,085]

29 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

 

Maybe Watts owes the club an explanation if some of the pre-season (mid season?) allegations have any truth to them.  But even if there is some truth, maybe the club owes it to Watts to work through this with him and stay the course.  For he may have problems / issues that run deeper or are more serious than any on here (or those outside the four walls of the club) know about.

Clubs are defined not just by the acts that players commit to and carry out on the field of battle, but also by how it treats each of its coaches, admin staff, coterie, sponsors and most importantly its supporters/members AND players, during its ongoing journey when striving to be "better" as individual citizens and as an AFL entity.

Pure speculation, but if Watts is or was in a darkish place or a place he has now decided he no longer wishes to be or go back to, and we now turn our back on him as a club.....are we better or worse as individuals and as a club for doing so?

Forgiveness, brotherhood, human kindness and helping each other to strive to be better, off the field of battle, should surely be as important as aspects like guts, drive, professionalism and hard work ethic that we as a club (i assume from the President, CEO, Coach and FD right down to the boot studder) espouse to "on the field".

Clubs are often defined by how they manage and acquit themselves in both aspects.  I can only hope the hierarchy and FD at the MFC recognise this and change their current (apparent) course with one Mr J Watts.

GET AROUND HIM BOYS!!

 

Well said Rusty.

[1 red eye 1 blue eye 754]

9 minutes ago, nosoupforme said:

I think Goodwin owes us an explanation for Watts' treatment.Did he do something wrong? Did he turn up his nose at Goodwin?

There is something that has stirred the pot.

Jack did rock up to pre season looking flamboyent. Did the "look" get the coaches off side, you wouldn't think so, but him and Max were fooling around in the middle of Nov, publically showcased it and that hair do did scream fun. Coincidentally we didn't get the AA Max this year either, not even close. Possibly the poor form of both players has frustrated the Club?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/melbourne/jack-watts-shows-up-for-preseason-training-with-eyecatching-new-look/news-story/f0014c3c4fe19a9c116d0fdb24e1b538

[nosoupforme 3,085]

6 minutes ago, 1 red eye 1 blue eye said:

Jack did rock up to pre season looking flamboyent. Did the "look" get the coaches off side, you wouldn't think so, but him and Max were fooling around in the middle of Nov, publically showcased it and that hair do did scream fun. Coincidentally we didn't get the AA Max this year either, not even close. Possibly the poor form of both players has frustrated the Club?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/melbourne/jack-watts-shows-up-for-preseason-training-with-eyecatching-new-look/news-story/f0014c3c4fe19a9c116d0fdb24e1b538

 

6 minutes ago, 1 red eye 1 blue eye said:

Jack did rock up to pre season looking flamboyent. Did the "look" get the coaches off side, you wouldn't think so, but him and Max were fooling around in the middle of Nov, publically showcased it and that hair do did scream fun. Coincidentally we didn't get the AA Max this year either, not even close. Possibly the poor form of both players has frustrated the Club?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/melbourne/jack-watts-shows-up-for-preseason-training-with-eyecatching-new-look/news-story/f0014c3c4fe19a9c116d0fdb24e1b538

Unless he did something sinister then there is more in it that we will not or maybe further down the track. Who knows.

What rut is he in?  ask Goodwin

 

[bing181 8,149]

2 hours ago, --coach-- said:

I wouldn’t, Tmac is just as accurate in front of goal, and can actually take a contested mark!

Not the point. None of the on-field stuff is the point.

It's about whether or not a player is doing everything he can to get the most out of himself. T Mac, yes. Watts ... clearly, no.

[bluey 882]

Then Goodwin remembered the words that Roos had spoken to him, before the rooster crows today you will have denied Jack.

Goodwin then went outside and wept bitterly.

The Gospel of St John 18:13-27.

[bing181 8,149]

1 hour ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Well said. It’s ugly.

If being an ugly club that plays hard, ugly, uncompromising footy gets us a premiership, fine by me.

[nosoupforme 3,085]

7 minutes ago, bluey said:

Then Goodwin remembered the words that Roos had spoken to him, before the rooster crows today you will have denied Jack.

Goodwin then went outside and wept bitterly.

The Gospel of St John 18:13-27.

I see the light HA HA

[Pates 9,536]

I feel like there is going to be significant backlash from the supporters/members if he ends up going. I’m not saying that should necessarily alter the position of the footy department but they should be prepared for a s-storm of upset fans. 

This call to to push him into exploring his options has been so badly handled. I sort of wonder whether the initial conversation was quite amicable but since looking into other clubs it hasn’t sat right with Jack and this is why he’s renewing his stance that he wants to be a Melbourne player. 

I feel like if he wants this done and dusted he should hash things out with Viney and Jones. It’s not about going behind the coaches back but if you’d like two players back you up it’d be those two. 

I think about that match winner against the Pies, how much it meant to him and how much it meant to the fans. It just doesn’t seem right to trade him. 

Edited October 3, 2017 by Pates

[bing181 8,149]

Just what is it about this that people are not getting?

It's clear that Watts has been asked and asked to cut back on the partying and take his footy and his preparation seriously. This has obviously been going on over a number of seasons and it's equally obvious that the FD and at least some of the senior players have had enough. Everyone here talks about Goodwin, but from what we know, this is also coming from the likes of Mahoney, Viney (senior),  McCartney, and presumably, with the blessing of Jackson and the Board.

To ask a player with the history, profile and popularity of Watts to leave is a huge decision, which just goes to show just how many bridges Watts has burnt and how fed up everyone is.

 

[Jaded No More 57,660]

4 hours ago, rpfc said:

Those of us who disagree would argue that 'Trading Watts = Standards Lifted' is an oversimplification and one last act of scapegoating Watts for the ills of the past.

"He has done nothing for 9 years" some cry - but will they give Weideman the benefit of the doubt for his two underwhelming years? Of course.

"Hadn't shown anything before 2016" is another call to the heavens and yet those some Dees supporters would argue that until 2014 the club was an absolute shambles and couldn't develop a Polaroid.

The standards at the beginning of the season that were not met should be the fundamental and only point of argument for moving Watts on. They definitely can be - but I would plead with Goodwin to run that bus over Kent, JKH, and the other two delistees who were apart of that midseason drinking session.

Let's share that love around, because it doesn't sit well with me that there is one singular sacrificial lamb on the altar of 'standards.'

Difference is Kent and JHK have zero currency. If we could get something for them we would trade them in a minute. In fact I'm sure both are "on the table" and receiving offers of 1 large mac n cheese burger with a side of fries. 

Watts has currency that can help us improve and land a player better suited to our needs and the culture the club is trying to build. 

[Akum 2,660]

11 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Just what is it about this that people are not getting?

It's clear that Watts has been asked and asked to cut back on the partying and take his footy and his preparation seriously. This has obviously been going on over a number of seasons and it's equally obvious that the FD and at least some of the senior players have had enough. Everyone here talks about Goodwin, but from what we know, this is also coming from the likes of Mahoney, Viney (senior),  McCartney, and presumably, with the blessing of Jackson and the Board.

To ask a player with the history, profile and popularity of Watts to leave is a huge decision, which just goes to show just how many bridges Watts has burnt and how fed up everyone is.

 

How do we know this? PJ, Mahoney & the Board have been silent so far, which is actually very wise, because for them to say anything about it, publicly or privately, could be quite damaging for the club. They would not be happy at all about being put in this position.