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Transgenderism


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In view of @TGR's thread on the main board re Sam Newman's unsavoury comments I thought I'd start a thread on the appropriate Demonland platform.

Newman's comments aside, which don't help anyone, the Left's current dealing with this issue doesn't help anyone according to Dr Paul McHugh, a John Hopkins Psychiatrist, least of all those with this affliction.  According to Dr McHugh, transgenderism, or gender dysphoria, is a "mental disorder" and should be treated as such.

He states, "transgenderism is a “mental disorder” that merits treatment, that sex change is “biologically impossible,” and that people who promote sexual reassignment surgery are collaborating with and promoting a mental disorder.  "The pro-transgender advocates do not want to know, said McHugh, that studies show between 70% and 80% of children who express transgender feelings “spontaneously lose those feelings” over time. Also, for those who had sexual reassignment surgery, most said they were “satisfied” with the operation “but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn’t have the surgery.”

“’Sex change’ is biologically impossible,” said McHugh. “People who undergo sex-reassignment surgery do not change from men to women or vice versa. Rather, they become feminized men or masculinized women. Claiming that this is civil-rights matter and encouraging surgical intervention is in reality to collaborate with and promote a mental disorder.”

He also warns, "that there are “misguided doctors” who, working with very young children who seem to imitate the opposite sex, will administer “puberty-delaying hormones to render later sex-change surgeries less onerous – even though the drugs stunt the children’s growth and risk causing sterility.”

The pro-transgender advocates do not want to know, said McHugh, that studies show between 70% and 80% of children who express transgender feelings “spontaneously lose those feelings” over time. Also, for those who had sexual reassignment surgery, most said they were “satisfied” with the operation “but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn’t have the surgery.”

The idea that one’s sexuality is a feeling and not a biological fact “is doing much damage to families, adolescents, and children and should be confronted as an opinion without biological foundation wherever it emerges,” said Dr. McHugh in his article, Transgenderism: A Pathogenic Meme. He goes on, “Think, for example, of the parents whom no one—not doctors, schools, nor even churches—will help to rescue their children from these strange notions of being transgendered and the problematic lives these notions herald."  They rarely find therapists who are willing to help them “work out their conflicts and correct their assumptions,” said McHugh. “Rather, they and their families find only ‘gender counselors’ who encourage them in their sexual misassumptions.”

In recent years, though, the notion that one’s sex is fluid has flooded the culture. It is “reflected everywhere in the media, the theater, the classroom, and in many medical clinics,” said McHugh.

When “the tumult and shouting dies,” McHugh continued, “it proves not easy nor wise to live in a counterfeit sexual garb. The most thorough follow-up of sex-reassigned people—extending over 30 years and conducted in Sweden, where the culture is strongly supportive of the transgendered—documents their lifelong mental unrest.”

“Ten to 15 years after surgical reassignment, the suicide rate of those who had undergone sex-reassignment surgery rose to 20 times that of comparable peers,” said McHugh.

 

So, my question is, is this "enlightened" thinking, this almost encouragement of transgenderism ?  Does it actually help those who have these feelings.  The studies in Sweden are poignant because they're conducted 10-15 years after reassignment.  

Are those with gender dysphoria getting the treatment they should, or are they precluded from the right treatment due to society's quest to make transgenderism appear normal and those who question it just backward bigots and intolerant of others who are different ?

It appears to me that the LGBT movement has become so powerful that any debate re transgenderism has been shut down and those that could have successful treatment to help cure this disorder are now pawns in a movement and may find it difficult to have treatment that could actually heal them.  Are they encouraged to get psychological treatment, or are their families merely encouraged to accept them for who they are ?

Newman's comments are insensitive whichever way you look at it, but it appears to me that discussion re this topic isn't encouraged and many with this disorder are poorer for it.

 

Btw, it's in the nature of the Left to discredit anyone who disagrees with their notions, so no doubt some will madly google Dr McHugh in order to discredit him.  Dr McHugh was head psychiatrist at John Hopkins Hospital for 26 years, and he's the author of 6 books and 125 peer reviewed articles.

 

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18 minutes ago, ProDee said:

In view of @TGR's thread on the main board re Sam Newman's unsavoury comments I thought I'd start a thread on the appropriate Demonland platform.

Newman's comments aside, which don't help anyone, the Left's current dealing with this issue doesn't help anyone according to Dr Paul McHugh, a John Hopkins Psychiatrist, least of all those with this affliction.  According to Dr McHugh, transgenderism, or gender dysphoria, is a "mental disorder" and should be treated as such.

He states, "transgenderism is a “mental disorder” that merits treatment, that sex change is “biologically impossible,” and that people who promote sexual reassignment surgery are collaborating with and promoting a mental disorder.  "The pro-transgender advocates do not want to know, said McHugh, that studies show between 70% and 80% of children who express transgender feelings “spontaneously lose those feelings” over time. Also, for those who had sexual reassignment surgery, most said they were “satisfied” with the operation “but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn’t have the surgery.”

“’Sex change’ is biologically impossible,” said McHugh. “People who undergo sex-reassignment surgery do not change from men to women or vice versa. Rather, they become feminized men or masculinized women. Claiming that this is civil-rights matter and encouraging surgical intervention is in reality to collaborate with and promote a mental disorder.”

He also warns, "that there are “misguided doctors” who, working with very young children who seem to imitate the opposite sex, will administer “puberty-delaying hormones to render later sex-change surgeries less onerous – even though the drugs stunt the children’s growth and risk causing sterility.”

The pro-transgender advocates do not want to know, said McHugh, that studies show between 70% and 80% of children who express transgender feelings “spontaneously lose those feelings” over time. Also, for those who had sexual reassignment surgery, most said they were “satisfied” with the operation “but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn’t have the surgery.”

The idea that one’s sexuality is a feeling and not a biological fact “is doing much damage to families, adolescents, and children and should be confronted as an opinion without biological foundation wherever it emerges,” said Dr. McHugh in his article, Transgenderism: A Pathogenic Meme. He goes on, “Think, for example, of the parents whom no one—not doctors, schools, nor even churches—will help to rescue their children from these strange notions of being transgendered and the problematic lives these notions herald."  They rarely find therapists who are willing to help them “work out their conflicts and correct their assumptions,” said McHugh. “Rather, they and their families find only ‘gender counselors’ who encourage them in their sexual misassumptions.”

In recent years, though, the notion that one’s sex is fluid has flooded the culture. It is “reflected everywhere in the media, the theater, the classroom, and in many medical clinics,” said McHugh.

When “the tumult and shouting dies,” McHugh continued, “it proves not easy nor wise to live in a counterfeit sexual garb. The most thorough follow-up of sex-reassigned people—extending over 30 years and conducted in Sweden, where the culture is strongly supportive of the transgendered—documents their lifelong mental unrest.”

“Ten to 15 years after surgical reassignment, the suicide rate of those who had undergone sex-reassignment surgery rose to 20 times that of comparable peers,” said McHugh.

 

So, my question is, is this "enlightened" thinking, this almost encouragement of transgenderism ?  Does it actually help those who have these feelings.  The studies in Sweden are poignant because they're conducted 10-15 years after reassignment.  

Are those with gender dysphoria getting the treatment they should, or are they precluded from the right treatment due to society's quest to make transgenderism appear normal and those who question it just backward bigots and intolerant of others who are different ?

It appears to me that the LGBT movement has become so powerful that any debate re transgenderism has been shut down and those that could have successful treatment to help cure this disorder are now pawns in a movement and may find it difficult to have treatment that could actually heal them.  Are they encouraged to get psychological treatment, or are their families merely encouraged to accept them for who they are ?

Newman's comments are insensitive whichever way you look at it, but it appears to me that discussion re this topic isn't encouraged and many with this disorder are poorer for it.

 

Btw, it's in the nature of the Left to discredit anyone who....

It is the nature of the extreme right to think of "me".  It is the nature of the extreme left to think of minorities and "we".

If there was a dichotomous choice, there is really no contest.

 

You can gush over your flag-bearers in Hanson, Bolt, (Trump), Abbott, Bernardi, Howard etc.... who invariably advertise that they are in-touch with the "average person".  They are essentially nationalists championing a cause of "me".

 

They are into "free speech" until you say something mildly negative about Anzac day or George Pell.  To use a Gillardism, who history will look favourably on BTW, the sensible centre doesn't need to be lectured to by the likes of the far right, who play the "fear" card, the "what about me?" card, and really aim accurately to the lowest common denominator in the electorate.

 

 

Now, whether this is a richard-swinging contest or a fannie-exhibition is of no concern, nor relevance to me.

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, TGR said:

It is the nature of the extreme right to think of "me".  It is the nature of the extreme left to think of minorities and "we".

If there was a dichotomous choice, there is really no contest.

 

You can gush over your flag-bearers in Hanson, Bolt, (Trump), Abbott, Bernardi, Howard etc.... who invariably advertise that they are in-touch with the "average person".  They are essentially nationalists championing a cause of "me".

 

They are into "free speech" until you say something mildly negative about Anzac day or George Pell.  To use a Gillardism, who history will look favourably on BTW, the sensible centre doesn't need to be lectured to by the likes of the far right, who play the "fear" card, the "what about me?" card, and really aim accurately to the lowest common denominator in the electorate.

 

 

Now, whether this is a richard-swinging contest or a fannie-exhibition is of no concern, nor relevance to me.

 

 

 

 

You needn't have bothered.

And I shouldn't have expected more.

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I know a politician from the left side of politics. I won't give any further clues to protect the child. He has a male child who has his hair grown to look like a young girl. If the child wants to play with a truck or anything that can be perceived as masculine it will be replaced with a doll or something feminine. It is sick and I feel sorry for the child.

In my opinion gender is not fluid no matter how many left of centre people wish it was.

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4 hours ago, TGR said:

It is the nature of the extreme right to think of "me".  It is the nature of the extreme left to think of minorities and "we".

If there was a dichotomous choice, there is really no contest.

 

You can gush over your flag-bearers in Hanson, Bolt, (Trump), Abbott, Bernardi, Howard etc.... who invariably advertise that they are in-touch with the "average person".  They are essentially nationalists championing a cause of "me".

 

They are into "free speech" until you say something mildly negative about Anzac day or George Pell.  To use a Gillardism, who history will look favourably on BTW, the sensible centre doesn't need to be lectured to by the likes of the far right, who play the "fear" card, the "what about me?" card, and really aim accurately to the lowest common denominator in the electorate.

 

 

Now, whether this is a richard-swinging contest or a fannie-exhibition is of no concern, nor relevance to me.

 

 

 

 

There are so many ridiculous points in your dribble I can't be bothered going through all of them.

i'll just pick an obvious one. You say "flag-bearers" as if it is some kind of insult. Why would you be a member of this website if you don't love the grand old flag?

How does someone choose if it is acceptable to love a flag or not?

I can only guess the flag of the self loathing left is a white one.

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11 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

There are so many ridiculous points in your dribble I can't be bothered going through all of them.

i'll just pick an obvious one. You say "flag-bearers" as if it is some kind of insult. Why would you be a member of this website if you don't love the grand old flag?

How does someone choose if it is acceptable to love a flag or not?

I can only guess the flag of the self loathing left is a white one.

Ouch

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On 7/1/2017 at 7:21 PM, Wrecker45 said:

I know a politician from the left side of politics. I won't give any further clues to protect the child. He has a male child who has his hair grown to look like a young girl. If the child wants to play with a truck or anything that can be perceived as masculine it will be replaced with a doll or something feminine. It is sick and I feel sorry for the child.

In my opinion gender is not fluid no matter how many left of centre people wish it was.

No  wonder he's a LEFTIE.

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On 1 July 2017 at 7:45 PM, Wrecker45 said:

There are so many ridiculous points in your dribble I can't be bothered going through all of them.

i'll just pick an obvious one. You say "flag-bearers" as if it is some kind of insult. Why would you be a member of this website if you don't love the grand old flag?

How does someone choose if it is acceptable to love a flag or not?

I can only guess the flag of the self loathing left is a white one.

Wrecker, I think you misread his post. Your "obvious" one isn't as obvious as you seem to think it is. TGR wasn't criticising flag bearers per se, he was criticising Bolt, Bernardi  etc for being flag-bearers of the right. 

 

You are also rather prone to pointless generalisations. You'd probably call me "of the left" but I don't loathe myself at all.

Edited by Jara
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1 hour ago, Jara said:

Wrecker, I think you misread his post. Your "obvious" one isn't as obvious as you seem to think it is. Dieter wasn't criticising flag bearers per se, he was criticising Bolt, Bernardi  etc for being flag-bearers of the right. 

 

You are also rather prone to pointless generalisations. You'd probably call me "of the left" but I don't loathe myself at all.

The next sentence after the flag-bearer comment went on to call them nationalists. IF flag-bearer had nothing to do with Australia's flag in that context it was the writers choice of words that were ambiguous, I don't think I missed the point, but I never do:). It was also TGR not Dieter that typed it.

My self loathing left comment was a response to TGR saying the right is all about "me". Both are inaccurate generalisations. As generalisation tend to be. There is a specific brand of left wing politics I despise. Your logical brand of left wing ideology don't fall into that category and I would happily argue for fun with you all day.

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8 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

The next sentence after the flag-bearer comment went on to call them nationalists. IF flag-bearer had nothing to do with Australia's flag in that context it was the writers choice of words that were ambiguous, I don't think I missed the point, but I never do:). It was also TGR not Dieter that typed it.

My self loathing left comment was a response to TGR saying the right is all about "me". Both are inaccurate generalisations. As generalisation tend to be. There is a specific brand of left wing politics I despise. Your logical brand of left wing ideology don't fall into that category and I would happily argue for fun with you all day.

Oops - sorry, yeah, it was TGR.  You know what these lefties are like - they all look the same to me :(

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10 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

That is the most sensible thing I have ever seen you post.

I take it no-one is arguing the merits of the actual thread, i.e. transgenderism is a mental disorder ?

When it comes to intellect the left are a vacuum.

They're ONLY interested in how things make them "feel".

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No it's not cool and it's not s choice a child should make.

Its a career choice for sex workers not a teen mental health decision that should ever be encouraged by health professionals.

Making a eunuch of oneself is a bizarre thing to want to do.

Bruce Jenner I could not care less about but Australian teenagers should not be urged to switch genders .

I'm with the Gavin McInnes,Pro Dee faction here.

Of course some people are so gay  they may as well cross dress but changing your private parts chemically and surgically is not the same as getting a tattoo of a piercing .

Having said that it's compulsory for gay Iranian men to have a sex change- state sponsored.

Strange times.

Edited by Biffen
Itchy breasts
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9 hours ago, ProDee said:

I take it no-one is arguing the merits of the actual thread, i.e. transgenderism is a mental disorder ?

When it comes to intellect the left are a vacuum.

They're ONLY interested in how things make them "feel".

I will. In my experience people that suffer severe trauma (not always sexual) at an early age are proan to confusion over their sexuality and have trouble understanding who they are.

I would argue transgenderism can be circumstantial as well as a mental disorder.

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19 minutes ago, ProDee said:

One and the same I would have thought.

I'd guess a mental disorder is a chemical imbalance in the brain. Trauma is different.

i'm happy to be proven wrong. That is the beauty of being a free thinker which makes me centre right. We are not tribal and argue each case on its merits.

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2 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

I'd guess a mental disorder is a chemical imbalance in the brain. Trauma is different.

i'm happy to be proven wrong. That is the beauty of being a free thinker which makes me centre right. We are not tribal and argue each case on its merits.

I've previously read that there's no scientific evidence that mental disorders are caused by a "chemical imbalance in the brain".

So I did a quick search and found two articles that suggest this to be true.

http://www.peteearley.com/2015/01/30/mental-illnesses-caused-chemical-imbalances/

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/blogs/nuances-narratives-chemical-imbalance-debate

The second link quotes research done by the American Psychiatric Association.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 03/07/2017 at 10:16 PM, ProDee said:

I've previously read that there's no scientific evidence that mental disorders are caused by a "chemical imbalance in the brain".

So I did a quick search and found two articles that suggest this to be true.

http://www.peteearley.com/2015/01/30/mental-illnesses-caused-chemical-imbalances/

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/blogs/nuances-narratives-chemical-imbalance-debate

The second link quotes research done by the American Psychiatric Association.

What percentage of Australian people would you guess are transgender?

if it is less than 1%,as I imagine, there is no point even arguing it. It is too tiny.'

We do need to go back to having special schools though, to house the not quite with it.

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  • 1 month later...

I am what would be considered a "lefty". My view on this is people can do whatever makes them feel happy as long as it doesn't harm anyone else or infringe on the rights of anyone else.

But that doesn't mean I can be told what to think. Logic tells me that a man can't change into a woman via a medical procedure and vice versa. A man who has had "gender reassignment surgery" is not a woman, he is a man who has had his genitals removed. 

To the point of the thread (after reading the comments above) I do think transgenderism is a mental disorder though good luck getting it in the DSM. 

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In the end, what distinguishes a mental disorder/paraphilia from a tendency or quirk is whether or not it impinges upon the life of the sufferer to where they are unable to function in everyday society. There are plenty of people who undergo gender reassignment surgery who go on to live perfectly functional lives. Their authenticity is a different argument altogether but it can't be argued that their behavior is so abnormal and it's impact so severe that it impacts their quality of life or the quality of life of others.

While Gender Dysphoria is listed in the DSM V, one of the suggested treatments (amongst family counselling) can be undergoing a sex change. In certain cases, not to do so can lead to greater issues with body self image, greater anxiety and depression. 

I would ask as well where you got the link to that particular article/set of quotations, Pro Dee. 

Edited by Colin B. Flaubert
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The Age has lead Sunday articles about confused people who think it is possible to have a female dad ,and girls dressed as boys.

It comes across that the gender confused need people to see them as "normal"-when they are not.

They can do what they like-what i think of them(they are confused) should have little or no bearing in their lives.

Carry on cross dressing! Enjoy yourselves.

Please don't fight for the rights to be firemen, pilots,Linesmen etc-you have a mental issues which makes it hard for you to realise you are abnormal.You are annoying to work with and essentially selfish.You are mentally weak and likely physically weak and obstreperous .In a group situation your need for recognition trumps the initial goals of the team so you are in fact a liability.

In the old days a tranny was a good bloke who liked a laugh and a drink -now they want to be taken seriously.

They are perpetual teens-annoying ,self obsessed and energy sapping.

 

 

 

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  • PreGame      

    PREGAME: Rd 03 vs Port Adelaide

    The Demons head out on the road for the next 2 weeks as they travel to Adelaide to play Port on Saturday and then have a 5 Day break before facing the Crows in Gather Round. With injuries to May and Lever who comes in and who goes out? ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 28

  • Match Report      

    A FORK IN THE HAWK by George on the Outer

    For too long in the past, Demon fans became habitually sick and tired of watching the Hawks hand out thrashings to their side. But Melbourne’s empahtic 55-point win at the MCG on Saturday has truly put a fork in the Hawk and turned that history well and truly on its head ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Post Game      

    POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demons cruised to an easy 55 point win over the Hawks at the MCG but but paid a heavy toll on the injury front with Steven May & Jake Lever possibly sidelined for a number of weeks ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Votes      

    VOTES: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    Last week Steven May took the lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Jack Viney. Clayton Oliver & Max Gawn round out the Top 4. Your votes for the win/loss against/to the Hawks. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Game Day      

    GAMEDAY: Round 02 vs Hawthorn

    It's Game Day and after mixed results in the first two weeks of the season the Demons have the opportunity to capitalise on their good form last week when they take on the Hawks at the MCG today ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Training  

    Friday, 22nd March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatcher Kev Martin and I attended the Captain's Run at Gosch's Paddock on this lovely sunny morning to bring you the following observations from the training session ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 22

  • Training  

    Tuesday, 19th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin & Walking Civil War attended Tuesday morning's training session at Gosch's Paddock to bring you the following observations ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 19

  • Training  

    Saturday, 16th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin and Dee Zephyr wandered down to Gosch's Paddock on Saturday morning to bring you their observations from the Captain's Run in the lead up to Sunday's Round One match against the Bulldogs ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 16

  • Farewell  

    Angus Brayshaw Retires

    After 167 games including the drought breaking Premiership Angus Brayshaw has made the heart breaking decision to medically retire from football as a result of a series of serious head knocks over his nearly decade of footy. We wish Gus all the best and he'll always be a hero at Demonland ... READ MORE

    Demonland | February 22

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Koltyn Tholstrup Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club’s newest recruit Koltyn Tholstrup to have a chat about his journey from the farm to the Demons, his first few weeks of preseason training, which Dees have impressed him on the track and his aspirations of playing Round 1 ... LISTEN

    Demonland | December 14

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Jason Taylor Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club's National Recruitment Manager Jason Taylor to have a chat about our Trade and Draft period, our newest recruits, our recent recruits who have yet to debut as well as those father son prospects on the horizon ... LISTEN

    Demonland | November 27

  • Next Match 

    .

    Round 03

       vs   

    Saturday 30th March 2024
    @ 07:30pm (AO)

  • MFC Forum  

  • Match Previews & Reports  

  • Training Forum  

  • AFLW Forum  

  • 2024 Player Sponsorship

  • Topics

  • Injury List  


      PLAYER INJURY LENGTH
    Jake Lever Knee Test
    Clayton Oliver Hand Test
    Oliver Sestan Concussion Test
    Steven May Ribs 1 Week
    Lachie Hunter Calf 1 Week
    Daniel Turner Hip 2-3 Weeks
    Charlie Spargo Achilles 2-4 Weeks
    Shane McAdam Hamstring 3-5 Weeks
    Jake Bowey Shoulder 7 Weeks
    Jake Melksham ACL 12-14 Weeks
    Joel Smith Suspension TBA

  • Player of the Year  


        PLAYER VOTES
    1 Christian Petracca 27
    2 Steven May 25
    3 Max Gawn 21
    4 Jack Viney 20
    5 Bayley Fritsch 19
    6 Clayton Oliver 18
    7 Christian Salem 12
    8 Blake Howes 11
    9 Jack Billings 10
    9 Alex Neal-Bullen 10

        FULL TABLE
  • Demonland Interviews 



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