Jump to content

Discussion on recent allegations about the use of illicit drugs in football is forbidden
  • IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

    Posting unsubstantiated rumours on this website is strictly forbidden.

    Demonland has made the difficult decision to not permit this platform to be used to discuss & debate the off-field issues relating to the Melbourne Football Club including matters currently being litigated between the Club & former Board members, board elections, the issue of illicit drugs in footy, the culture at the club & the personal issues & allegations against some of our players & officials ...

    We do not take these issues & this decision lightly & of course we believe that these serious matters affecting the club we love & are so passionate about are worthy of discussion & debate & I wish we could provide a place where these matters can be discussed in a civil & respectful manner.

    However these discussions unfortunately invariably devolve into areas that may be defamatory, libelous, spread unsubstantiated rumours & can effect the mental health of those involved. Even discussion & debate of known facts or media reports can lead to finger pointing, blame & personal attacks.

    The repercussion is that these discussions can open this website, it’s owners & it’s users to legal action & may result in this website being forced to shutdown.

    Our moderating team are all volunteers & cannot moderate the forum 24/7 & as a consequence problematic content that contravenes our rules & standards may go unnoticed for some time before it can be removed.

    We reserve the right to delete posts that offend against our above policy & indeed, to ban posters who are repeat offenders or who breach our code of conduct.

    WE HAVE BUILT A FANTASTIC ONLINE COMMUNITY AT DEMONLAND OVER THE PAST 23 YEARS & WE WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO BE ABLE TO DISCUSS THE CLUB WE LOVE & ARE SO PASSIONATE ABOUT.

    Thank you for your continued support & understanding. Go Dees.


Where to go for useful insights


Traja Dee

Recommended Posts

 

Simon Goodwin’s post-match interview after Saturday’s game in Alice suggests that he may have been watching a different game to almost everyone else.  It got me thinking about the post-match routine I have established to capture other’s thoughts and exactly how much credibility I give to different sources.
 
In this post, I’ve summed up some of the differences between Goodie’s post-match sentiment and the sentiment in George from the Outer’s report.  I’ve touched on the framework I tend to use when analysing games (contests and transitions) and then listed my go-to sources for post-match reviews.
 
For the Alice match against the Suns, Simon used expressions such as:
“I’m very proud of the victory
“We were really happy with the way we were playing in the first half in a lot of ways (and I know that that sounds a bit strange).”
“At no stage did we feel like we were out of the contest.”
“We made a lot of blues in the first half… we couldn’t connect with our ball use”
“It was really just doing the simple things well.”
 
Compare this to “What the Dickens” - another well researched, considered and entertaining read from “George in the Outer”.
“Once again, Melbourne got off to a shocker of a start in the game.”
“Sadly, forwards played behind their men, dinky kicks were persisted with, instead of long telling kicks, handballs went sideways”
“they (Jones and Hibberd) simply dragged the Demons out of the foolishness that they had offered in the first two quarters”
 
Maybe I’m quite unusual, but I love analysing games and try to understand why one team outscores the other.
 
The way I look at a game, it’s a series of contests joined by transitions.  Which team wins a specific contest depends on the number of players each team has at the contest, the athleticism and skill of each of those players, the system adopted (like where the players position themselves, which players are tagged, etc) and always an element of random luck.  Usually, the luck evens itself out over a match.
 
Transition is the phase when one team has won possession from a contest and starts to move the ball towards their goal.  They can either be free-flowing, such as plays when Jayden is running with the ball freely off the half-back line, or under pressure, such as plays when you see a desperate chain of handpasses trying to find a loose, outside player.
 
When planning a game, I imagine that the coaching panel establishes assumptions about the strengths and weaknesses of their own team and the opposition team in contests and transitions, and develops tactics for accentuating the positives and eliminating the negatives.  This is how I understand the term “role” that players refer to, where players are told to refine their normal style of play in both contests and transitions to accentuate the positives for the team.
 
After the match is a time to review and analyse the accuracy of those assumptions (i.e. player performance compared to expectations) and consider how to update those assumptions.  This is the analysis that I’m particularly interested in.
 
So, where should a “tragic demon” such a myself go to conduct one’s own analysis and reflection on games?
 
Personally, I seek out the following reports every week, rightly or wrongly.
 
Simon’s Post-Match Interview
This is my most valued source of information as it is closest to the game plan’s architects and their underlying assumptions, as well as the beginnings of post-match analysis and review.
 
I’m aware that the coaches sit down a day or two after a match, watch the videos and “code” the match, which I assume is the codification of every contest and transition.  Perhaps it’s only after this review and analysis that the underlying assumptions can be truly assessed, which really underscores the premature nature of the post-match interviews.
 
I’m also aware that the post-match interviews usually are tinted with a certain “spin” as honesty will create all sorts of headaches that the team doesn’t need.
 
Demonland’s Featured Articles
Let me say this to the administrators: these articles are gold, extremely well written and readable and significantly more insightful than all newspapers’ match reports - thank you!
 
The feature of these articles compared to newspaper articles is that the Demonland authors have a far deeper understanding of our team and our players, and write their reports with analysis of what the team did right or wrong.
 
The downside of the Demonland articles, I presume, is that the writers don’t have the insights to the coaches’ game plans and underlying assumptions, and what roles are assigned to different players.  Like the rest of us, they can only presume what the coaches were thinking.
 
Jordan Lewis on AFL 360
I love how well Lewie articulates the team insights and appreciate the respectful conversation with Jack Riewoldt. On the downside, there may be only 5 minutes of Melbourne discussion and what they discuss is haphazard and influenced by Mark Robinson, who I and many others don’t rate as a football intellectual.
 
At least these interviews occur after the match review.  Lewie was a bit of a tease a couple of weeks back when he referred to some of the team’s KPIs, where the team was scoring well in most of them (such as contested possession) but underperforming in others which he wasn’t prepared to share.
 
Joeboy’s 3-Word Analysis
These are bad enough to be good, and thank Joeboy, I enjoy reading them and look forward to them.  I’m intrigued by the challenge of summing up each player’s 100 minutes of effort in 3 words with no insights into roles and game plans and no post-match analysis.
 
What I like about it is that it reviews every player and provides perspectives that I haven’t necessarily seen.
 
The AFL Coaches Association Votes
I enjoy reading these as I respect the coaches’ football knowledge and their brief insights into which players performed particularly challenging roles.  I’m presuming that they downgrade the “bling” such as an outside player who receives easy goals, but then again, Jack Riewoldt scored 10 for the ANZAC Eve match for kicking 6:2 from 12 disposals with a few of those on the rebound with loose marking from Melbourne defenders.
 
Demonland Player of the Year Votes
I have to admit to skimming just the first page or 2 of these votes.  I really like that different supporters see different qualities in the players and maybe have different assumptions about player roles.  The comments are particularly interesting, though I tend to only skim the votes with numbers only.
 
So this is my list of where I go for post-match analyses.  Where do others go for their reviews?
 

  • Like 14
Link to comment
Share on other sites

An excellent look at things.

I must confess i temper my inclinations to give much weight to ANYTHING exiting the mouths of footy personas.

They are now masters of spin ( some more than others.

GOTO nailed it for mine.

My first port of call: The scoreboard.

I , simple as it might be, watch the game. I might watch a replay. Sometimes discuss with a son ( other has no interest ) 

I occasionally look at votes.

I mainly remind myself that footy really isnt as complicated as the self interested industry would have us think.

I relook at scoreboard :rolleyes:

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Having been privvy to some pre-game strategies with the coach I can assure you that we know very little about what jobs players are given on any given day.

We fans see one side of it and it is rarely straightforward.

My suggestion is to look at:

1. The coaches votes (these are relatively immediate)

2. The votes in the Bluey - that tells you what the coaches really think as each players gets votes out of ten - some players don't even receive votes if they play poorly enough.

3. The team picked the following week.

Edited by jnrmac
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. Goodwin's post match interview - he genuinely gives information and he hasn't descended into protective "coach-speak"

2, Coaches votes

3. Plapp's Casey report

Traja Dee - in addition to contest and transition when we have it there's defence when they have it.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Journos and commentators describe it as they see it. Coaches can talk aspirationally. He thought our structures and endeavour was good in the first half. And it probably was. We were just woeful executing the play. Remember he got that side which was dialobiical to come out and play some decent footy after half time. His message was get the delivery right and we are right back in this. 

What he saw was something that needed tweaking, while everyone else thought it needed major surgery. But he got the job done. Normally we would have gone 'woe is me' and gone back into our shells. But we dug our heels in and kept working hard.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

1. Goodwin's post match interview - he genuinely gives information and he hasn't descended into protective "coach-speak"

2, Coaches votes

3. Plapp's Casey report

Traja Dee - in addition to contest and transition when we have it there's defence when they have it.

Thanks Fifty-5.

I agree that Goodie is appreciably forthright while not descending into a Mark Neeld type heaviness.

Absolutely agree that transition involves both offence and defence.  When the opposition holds the ball in transition, our role is to apply pressure to cut off options and pressure the ball carrier in order to effect a contest as soon as possible rather than an opposition goal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


25 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

So mark Neeld's "We got hit by the reality bus" was useful information?

I deliberately avoided bringing up Mark Neeld's post-match interviews.  They were textbook examples of how not to conduct an interview and to promote our club and they demonstrated remarkably low emotional intelligence.  Even Neil Craig performed better in the interviews.

On the flip side, Paul Roos' interviews were probably textbook examples of how to conduct post-match interviews.  In fact, I've realised that I model how I behave in my professional work on Paul Roos manner in general - imitation is the best form of flattery after all.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Traja Dee said:

 

Simon Goodwin’s post-match interview after Saturday’s game in Alice suggests that he may have been watching a different game to almost everyone else.  It got me thinking about the post-match routine I have established to capture other’s thoughts and exactly how much credibility I give to different sources.
 
In this post, I’ve summed up some of the differences between Goodie’s post-match sentiment and the sentiment in George from the Outer’s report.  I’ve touched on the framework I tend to use when analysing games (contests and transitions) and then listed my go-to sources for post-match reviews.
 
For the Alice match against the Suns, Simon used expressions such as:
“I’m very proud of the victory
“We were really happy with the way we were playing in the first half in a lot of ways (and I know that that sounds a bit strange).”
“At no stage did we feel like we were out of the contest.”
“We made a lot of blues in the first half… we couldn’t connect with our ball use”
“It was really just doing the simple things well.”
 
Compare this to “What the Dickens” - another well researched, considered and entertaining read from “George in the Outer”.
“Once again, Melbourne got off to a shocker of a start in the game.”
“Sadly, forwards played behind their men, dinky kicks were persisted with, instead of long telling kicks, handballs went sideways”
“they (Jones and Hibberd) simply dragged the Demons out of the foolishness that they had offered in the first two quarters”
 
Maybe I’m quite unusual, but I love analysing games and try to understand why one team outscores the other.
 
The way I look at a game, it’s a series of contests joined by transitions.  Which team wins a specific contest depends on the number of players each team has at the contest, the athleticism and skill of each of those players, the system adopted (like where the players position themselves, which players are tagged, etc) and always an element of random luck.  Usually, the luck evens itself out over a match.
 
Transition is the phase when one team has won possession from a contest and starts to move the ball towards their goal.  They can either be free-flowing, such as plays when Jayden is running with the ball freely off the half-back line, or under pressure, such as plays when you see a desperate chain of handpasses trying to find a loose, outside player.
 
When planning a game, I imagine that the coaching panel establishes assumptions about the strengths and weaknesses of their own team and the opposition team in contests and transitions, and develops tactics for accentuating the positives and eliminating the negatives.  This is how I understand the term “role” that players refer to, where players are told to refine their normal style of play in both contests and transitions to accentuate the positives for the team.
 
After the match is a time to review and analyse the accuracy of those assumptions (i.e. player performance compared to expectations) and consider how to update those assumptions.  This is the analysis that I’m particularly interested in.
 
So, where should a “tragic demon” such a myself go to conduct one’s own analysis and reflection on games?
 
Personally, I seek out the following reports every week, rightly or wrongly.
 
Simon’s Post-Match Interview
This is my most valued source of information as it is closest to the game plan’s architects and their underlying assumptions, as well as the beginnings of post-match analysis and review.
 
I’m aware that the coaches sit down a day or two after a match, watch the videos and “code” the match, which I assume is the codification of every contest and transition.  Perhaps it’s only after this review and analysis that the underlying assumptions can be truly assessed, which really underscores the premature nature of the post-match interviews.
 
I’m also aware that the post-match interviews usually are tinted with a certain “spin” as honesty will create all sorts of headaches that the team doesn’t need.
 
Demonland’s Featured Articles
Let me say this to the administrators: these articles are gold, extremely well written and readable and significantly more insightful than all newspapers’ match reports - thank you!
 
The feature of these articles compared to newspaper articles is that the Demonland authors have a far deeper understanding of our team and our players, and write their reports with analysis of what the team did right or wrong.
 
The downside of the Demonland articles, I presume, is that the writers don’t have the insights to the coaches’ game plans and underlying assumptions, and what roles are assigned to different players.  Like the rest of us, they can only presume what the coaches were thinking.
 
Jordan Lewis on AFL 360
I love how well Lewie articulates the team insights and appreciate the respectful conversation with Jack Riewoldt. On the downside, there may be only 5 minutes of Melbourne discussion and what they discuss is haphazard and influenced by Mark Robinson, who I and many others don’t rate as a football intellectual.
 
At least these interviews occur after the match review.  Lewie was a bit of a tease a couple of weeks back when he referred to some of the team’s KPIs, where the team was scoring well in most of them (such as contested possession) but underperforming in others which he wasn’t prepared to share.
 
Joeboy’s 3-Word Analysis
These are bad enough to be good, and thank Joeboy, I enjoy reading them and look forward to them.  I’m intrigued by the challenge of summing up each player’s 100 minutes of effort in 3 words with no insights into roles and game plans and no post-match analysis.
 
What I like about it is that it reviews every player and provides perspectives that I haven’t necessarily seen.
 
The AFL Coaches Association Votes
I enjoy reading these as I respect the coaches’ football knowledge and their brief insights into which players performed particularly challenging roles.  I’m presuming that they downgrade the “bling” such as an outside player who receives easy goals, but then again, Jack Riewoldt scored 10 for the ANZAC Eve match for kicking 6:2 from 12 disposals with a few of those on the rebound with loose marking from Melbourne defenders.
 
Demonland Player of the Year Votes
I have to admit to skimming just the first page or 2 of these votes.  I really like that different supporters see different qualities in the players and maybe have different assumptions about player roles.  The comments are particularly interesting, though I tend to only skim the votes with numbers only.
 
So this is my list of where I go for post-match analyses.  Where do others go for their reviews?
 

i also go to the afl match centre. If i'm not at the game (a'la Alice game) i watch it during game, otherwise consult it after game. It has team/player stats and advanced stats.

as for the alice game, i can see why goody said what he said. We were doing well right across the stats board in the first half, leading on contested and total possessions and on inside 50's in particular. so we were getting the ball and getting it into the forward line. obviously we were were doing something wrong and i thought the major wrongs were too many basic skill errors, bad decision making and a disorganised forward line given our stats to half time i always thought we were in it. the first half was also skewed by the fairly strong wind.

just my 2c worth 

Edited by daisycutter
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's interesting , often, reading other's views. When we're say discussing how an appraisal is accurate or relevant it is noteworthy to consider the tactical origin of play and any changes as primary metrics. In so doing i often think it's a trap to consider these as necessary correct i.e.the Coaches default is the true delineator , or ideal "zero" marker in the game.

After all, one he has vestments in the whole shebang so how unbiased can the coach's view be ? 

Secondly, why assume the coach is right ?

Our starts have been in the main diabolical. Then corrections, then improvement. This of itself tells a story and for mine gives sound warning about the what and therefores of review.

Edited by beelzebub
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Traja Dee said:

I deliberately avoided bringing up Mark Neeld's post-match interviews.  They were textbook examples of how not to conduct an interview and to promote our club and they demonstrated remarkably low emotional intelligence.  Even Neil Craig performed better in the interviews.

On the flip side, Paul Roos' interviews were probably textbook examples of how to conduct post-match interviews.  In fact, I've realised that I model how I behave in my professional work on Paul Roos manner in general - imitation is the best form of flattery after all.

In Neeld's defence (a strange expression in itself), Roos very rarely had to deal with 100 point shellackings. There was the match against West Coast in his first year but outside of that I can't recall too many, whereas Neeld was on the receiving end of them almost every week. There's only so many lines you can use and excuses you can roll out before they and you start to sound hollow.

Not saying he was great in post match, but routinely addressing something that was often completely indefensible wouldn't have been an easy gig for anyone, including Roos.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Bay Riffin said:

Journos and commentators describe it as they see it. Coaches can talk aspirationally. He thought our structures and endeavour was good in the first half. And it probably was. We were just woeful executing the play. Remember he got that side which was dialobiical to come out and play some decent footy after half time. His message was get the delivery right and we are right back in this. 

What he saw was something that needed tweaking, while everyone else thought it needed major surgery. But he got the job done. Normally we would have gone 'woe is me' and gone back into our shells. But we dug our heels in and kept working hard.

Also, we should remember that when a coach talks publicly about a game he is talking to a number of different people

1. The players. It is one thing to say things behind closed doors to players, it is another to praise/criticise in public. There are often hidden meaning we wouldn't necessarily understand

2. The Other coaches: ditto the players

3. The Board. 

4. The demon fans

5. The press. 

And I think it is in that order. All of them have their own interests and all have to be catered for. There are often very specific things coaches want out of these utterances, and the Press in particular are nearly always will messengers.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Traja Dee said:

 

Simon Goodwin’s post-match interview after Saturday’s game in Alice suggests that he may have been watching a different game to almost everyone else.  It got me thinking about the post-match routine I have established to capture other’s thoughts and exactly how much credibility I give to different sources.
 
In this post, I’ve summed up some of the differences between Goodie’s post-match sentiment and the sentiment in George from the Outer’s report.  I’ve touched on the framework I tend to use when analysing games (contests and transitions) and then listed my go-to sources for post-match reviews.
 
For the Alice match against the Suns, Simon used expressions such as:
“I’m very proud of the victory
“We were really happy with the way we were playing in the first half in a lot of ways (and I know that that sounds a bit strange).”
“At no stage did we feel like we were out of the contest.”
“We made a lot of blues in the first half… we couldn’t connect with our ball use”
“It was really just doing the simple things well.”
 
Compare this to “What the Dickens” - another well researched, considered and entertaining read from “George in the Outer”.
“Once again, Melbourne got off to a shocker of a start in the game.”
“Sadly, forwards played behind their men, dinky kicks were persisted with, instead of long telling kicks, handballs went sideways”
“they (Jones and Hibberd) simply dragged the Demons out of the foolishness that they had offered in the first two quarters”
 
Maybe I’m quite unusual, but I love analysing games and try to understand why one team outscores the other.
 
The way I look at a game, it’s a series of contests joined by transitions.  Which team wins a specific contest depends on the number of players each team has at the contest, the athleticism and skill of each of those players, the system adopted (like where the players position themselves, which players are tagged, etc) and always an element of random luck.  Usually, the luck evens itself out over a match.
 
Transition is the phase when one team has won possession from a contest and starts to move the ball towards their goal.  They can either be free-flowing, such as plays when Jayden is running with the ball freely off the half-back line, or under pressure, such as plays when you see a desperate chain of handpasses trying to find a loose, outside player.
 
When planning a game, I imagine that the coaching panel establishes assumptions about the strengths and weaknesses of their own team and the opposition team in contests and transitions, and develops tactics for accentuating the positives and eliminating the negatives.  This is how I understand the term “role” that players refer to, where players are told to refine their normal style of play in both contests and transitions to accentuate the positives for the team.
 
After the match is a time to review and analyse the accuracy of those assumptions (i.e. player performance compared to expectations) and consider how to update those assumptions.  This is the analysis that I’m particularly interested in.
 
So, where should a “tragic demon” such a myself go to conduct one’s own analysis and reflection on games?
 
Personally, I seek out the following reports every week, rightly or wrongly.
 
Simon’s Post-Match Interview
This is my most valued source of information as it is closest to the game plan’s architects and their underlying assumptions, as well as the beginnings of post-match analysis and review.
 
I’m aware that the coaches sit down a day or two after a match, watch the videos and “code” the match, which I assume is the codification of every contest and transition.  Perhaps it’s only after this review and analysis that the underlying assumptions can be truly assessed, which really underscores the premature nature of the post-match interviews.
 
I’m also aware that the post-match interviews usually are tinted with a certain “spin” as honesty will create all sorts of headaches that the team doesn’t need.
 
Demonland’s Featured Articles
Let me say this to the administrators: these articles are gold, extremely well written and readable and significantly more insightful than all newspapers’ match reports - thank you!
 
The feature of these articles compared to newspaper articles is that the Demonland authors have a far deeper understanding of our team and our players, and write their reports with analysis of what the team did right or wrong.
 
The downside of the Demonland articles, I presume, is that the writers don’t have the insights to the coaches’ game plans and underlying assumptions, and what roles are assigned to different players.  Like the rest of us, they can only presume what the coaches were thinking.
 
Jordan Lewis on AFL 360
I love how well Lewie articulates the team insights and appreciate the respectful conversation with Jack Riewoldt. On the downside, there may be only 5 minutes of Melbourne discussion and what they discuss is haphazard and influenced by Mark Robinson, who I and many others don’t rate as a football intellectual.
 
At least these interviews occur after the match review.  Lewie was a bit of a tease a couple of weeks back when he referred to some of the team’s KPIs, where the team was scoring well in most of them (such as contested possession) but underperforming in others which he wasn’t prepared to share.
 
Joeboy’s 3-Word Analysis
These are bad enough to be good, and thank Joeboy, I enjoy reading them and look forward to them.  I’m intrigued by the challenge of summing up each player’s 100 minutes of effort in 3 words with no insights into roles and game plans and no post-match analysis.
 
What I like about it is that it reviews every player and provides perspectives that I haven’t necessarily seen.
 
The AFL Coaches Association Votes
I enjoy reading these as I respect the coaches’ football knowledge and their brief insights into which players performed particularly challenging roles.  I’m presuming that they downgrade the “bling” such as an outside player who receives easy goals, but then again, Jack Riewoldt scored 10 for the ANZAC Eve match for kicking 6:2 from 12 disposals with a few of those on the rebound with loose marking from Melbourne defenders.
 
Demonland Player of the Year Votes
I have to admit to skimming just the first page or 2 of these votes.  I really like that different supporters see different qualities in the players and maybe have different assumptions about player roles.  The comments are particularly interesting, though I tend to only skim the votes with numbers only.
 
So this is my list of where I go for post-match analyses.  Where do others go for their reviews?
 

You forgot the excrement excellent Demonland Podcast. http://demonland.com/Podcast :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great post! For me and not necessarily in the same order each week:

1. Goodwin's press conference 

2. AFLCA Votes

3. Watch the game again (without so much emotional investment - cant often bring myself to do this in the losses)

4. Fanfooty or footywire for the stats 

5. Plapp's review

6. Lewis on 360

7. On a really good win, or to look at a specific player, I might watch the game or part of it, one more time.

And of course all things D-Land

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Wrecker45 said:

The Demonland Post Match threads usually have some good insights in them if you can get past whether O Mac played a good game or not.

I love the post match threads days later, when people have had an opportunity to calm down and watch the replay.  It is usually absolute pox immediately after the game with the exception of Wiseblood and a couple of others who seem capable of regulating their emotions.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's difficult to get insight from watching the game on TV, particularly poxtel, as the camera work is based upon the 'looking through a moving keyhole' film genre. You'd think short of being at the game, TV would be the most direct way of reading the play and understanding strategies.

Post game pressers from coach and players are good as they've had less time to homogenise their thoughts and are often quite honest.

Personally, I go to the finest post match analysers I know: BBO and Biffen. They do their best work after 15+ frosties, which isn't saying much I guess...

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites


2 hours ago, Bay Riffin said:

Journos and commentators describe it as they see it. Coaches can talk aspirationally. He thought our structures and endeavour was good in the first half. And it probably was. We were just woeful executing the play. Remember he got that side which was dialobiical to come out and play some decent footy after half time. His message was get the delivery right and we are right back in this. 

What he saw was something that needed tweaking, while everyone else thought it needed major surgery. But he got the job done. Normally we would have gone 'woe is me' and gone back into our shells. But we dug our heels in and kept working hard.

Again, a lot of very good posts on this thread.

The coaches (collectively) are looking for things that we're not looking for. They pay far more attention to "structures and endeavour" and whether or not players are playing their assigned roles, and far less attention to clangers (unless the clangers are caused by going against team instructions), than us supporters do. Supporters don't see structures because we're not looking for them. So if Goody says our structures were good but we were let down by our execution, you start looking for structures and watch the game through different eyes. And find out he's right.

Myself, I like anything that makes me look at the match in a different way. Which is why I like Joeboy, even if I don't agree with him - with Joeboy's analysis, if everybody agreed with him, there'd be no point to it. 

The worst parts of post-match "analysis" are posters just getting stuck into their favourite scapegoats. Rarely if ever contributes anything useful.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, daisycutter said:

i also go to the afl match centre. If i'm not at the game (a'la Alice game) i watch it during game, otherwise consult it after game. It has team/player stats and advanced stats.

as for the alice game, i can see why goody said what he said. We were doing well right across the stats board in the first half, leading on contested and total possessions and on inside 50's in particular. so we were getting the ball and getting it into the forward line. obviously we were were doing something wrong and i thought the major wrongs were too many basic skill errors, bad decision making and a disorganised forward line given our stats to half time i always thought we were in it. the first half was also skewed by the fairly strong wind.

just my 2c worth 

Just as an aside, for some reason we often seem to struggle if there's a strong wind. Even at the most basic level, we don't seem to get that it will drop short kicking into it and go over the back kicking with it.

Even an inexperienced team like the Suns got us on that a number of times in the first half. Someone made a comment that we seemed to come to life when the lights went on; maybe it was more the wind dropping.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Akum said:

Just as an aside, for some reason we often seem to struggle if there's a strong wind. Even at the most basic level, we don't seem to get that it will drop short kicking into it and go over the back kicking with it.

Even an inexperienced team like the Suns got us on that a number of times in the first half. Someone made a comment that we seemed to come to life when the lights went on; maybe it was more the wind dropping.

agreed, i also get the impression we don't handle the basics of windy football, not that we encounter it at many grounds these days

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do seriously wonder if the structure at games commencement is the best. Weve stuffed up 1st qtrs with amazing regularity. We seem ablecto do ok ONCE things are adjusted and players 'reminded' of their roles. This does suggest the approach to 'starts' is wrong...or at best needs 'tweaking'.

So even referencing the horses's mouth highlights that this has limitations. They are working off a datum, of their own creation. Its not infallible though.

There's probably only two things that are relatively indisputable, the weather and results.

I give very little consideration to stats. It matters nothing to the bloke 30 m out kicking whether hes holding the ball as a result of 4 tackles, 5 kicks ,9 handpasses , 3 marks ( 1 contested ) and a free kick or

2 taclkes , 4 kicks so on etc.

What matters is what he does with it. It might also be relevant how often he gets a crack at that ( or another )

This i suppose goes to how well the team is playing and to borrow from the old book of  ism's , are they 'on' or not. 

It's my experience you can normally tell by looking. So in respect to what i think the OP asks.

I really dont go looking for insights at all.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, beelzebub said:

I do seriously wonder if the structure at games commencement is the best. Weve stuffed up 1st qtrs with amazing regularity. We seem ablecto do ok ONCE things are adjusted and players 'reminded' of their roles. This does suggest the approach to 'starts' is wrong...or at best needs 'tweaking'.

So even referencing the horses's mouth highlights that this has limitations. They are working off a datum, of their own creation. Its not infallible though.

There's probably only two things that are relatively indisputable, the weather and results.

I give very little consideration to stats. It matters nothing to the bloke 30 m out kicking whether hes holding the ball as a result of 4 tackles, 5 kicks ,9 handpasses , 3 marks ( 1 contested ) and a free kick or

2 taclkes , 4 kicks so on etc.

What matters is what he does with it. It might also be relevant how often he gets a crack at that ( or another )

This i suppose goes to how well the team is playing and to borrow from the old book of  ism's , are they 'on' or not. 

It's my experience you can normally tell by looking. So in respect to what i think the OP asks.

I really dont go looking for insights at all.

well at least we are not as slow starting as the sons of g*d, bub

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I took my kids to the club family night at Malvern last night with all players in attendance apart from Jesse. The club excels at providing events like this to engage with its younger members, families and in their search for new members. All players were approachable and fun to talk to despite putting up with  the monotonous task of posing for hundreds of photos and signing of guernseys.

This wasn't an event with scheduled activities it was like a walk in the park and  meet your idol.

I did get a few minutes to talk to Jetta and despite the contrast in opinion on demonland , the club is happy with the season so far. He stated to me the obvious inconsistencies come down to pressure. When the opposition "Brings it" we are a little unsure of how to counter it.

I said to Nev when all of us at the game leave after those close losses we feel just as tired as the players cause we see the effort  they put in and to fall short pains us just as much. He responded by saying that the effort all year has been there no doubt and I agreed. 

Also talked about the Richmond loss and he said the boys were basically treading water in the last cause they worked so hard with limited rotations. If Spencer has stayed fit we win that game he said.

He praised the work of the midfield and forward line in the Suns game as they made the job of the backline easy when the game turned in the 3rd. 

I quoted Lewis to him in regards to the ground size of the ground in Alice and he told me it's longer than Domain and wider than MCG. Im bringing this point up because when we were watching on TV the camera was low and the angles or distances between players was misleading so when we saw a suns player dance on a 20 cent piece around Tyson and Lewis in the middle of the ground it wasn't as bad as it looked.

This is not much of an insight but thought I'd post it for a bit of reading since it's a quiet weekend for us.

Once again well done to the MFC for events such as these, my kids couldn't wipe the smiles off their faces all afternoon.

  • Like 20
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    GAMEDAY: Rd 03 vs Port Adelaide

    The Demons begin their 2 week adventure in South Australia tonight when they face the Power from Port at the Adelaide Oval. Both teams will be keen to stamp their early credentials for September in this Top 4 clash on the big stage.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 1

    DEPTH CHARGE by Whispering Jack

    The jubilation on the coach’s face as he danced a celebratory jig by the playing bench after the final siren sounded to record his team’s four-point victory over the Demons when the teams last met, said it all.    On that rainy Friday night at the Adelaide Oval, Ken Hinkley’s young midfield secured much more than four points on offer. The victory over one of the big dogs of the competition after a succession of wins over some of its lesser lights gave his team respect and validation fo

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 5

    TRAINING: Monday 25th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Demon Dynasty & Kev Martin were trackside at Gosch's Paddock today to bring you their observations from training. DEMON DYNASTY'S TRAINING OBSERVATIONS Kade Chandler's left knee heavily strapped. BBB, Spargs & Jake Lever also in rehab group. Jake Bowey solo running separate kicking/sprint/agility drills. Super fine morning / early arvo at Gosch's for the boys to blow out some cobwebs. Choco initially had the light duties / rehab group

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    HIBERNATING by KC from Casey

    When they locked up the rooms for summer at the end of last year’s football season, the rooms gathered cobwebs, the atmosphere became dense and the place developed a sleepy feel. They opened up the rooms to let Casey out to play on Sunday but the team was still hibernating and they missed the bulk of the opening quarter. By the time they worked out it was game on, their opponents from Box Hill had accumulated five goals and, if the game wasn’t over, it might as well have been. For a se

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    A FORK IN THE HAWK by George on the Outer

    For too long in the past, Demon fans became habitually sick and tired of watching the Hawks hand out thrashings to their side. But Melbourne’s empahtic 55-point win at the MCG on Saturday has truly put a fork in the Hawk and turned that history well and truly on its head. The Demons have now won nine of their last ten encounters with the other result, a draw.     And like a fork, it was the multi-pronged options that Melbourne had all across the ground.  It certainly helped that Hawthorn

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports 8

    PREGAME: Rd 03 vs Port Adelaide

    The Demons head on the road for the next 2 weeks as they travel to Adelaide to play Port on Saturday and then have a 5 Day break before facing the Crows in the Gather Round. With injuries to May and Lever who comes in and who goes out?

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 279

    PODCAST: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Monday, 25th March @ 8:30pm. Join George, Binman & I as we analyse the Demons victory at the MCG against the Hawks in the Round 02. You questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show. If you would like to leave us a voicemail please call 03 9016 3666 and don't worry no body answers so you don't have to talk to a human. Listen & Chat

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 46

    VOTES: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    Last week Steven May took the lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Jack Viney. Clayton Oliver & Max Gawn round out the Top 4. Your votes for the win/loss against/to the Hawks. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 50

    POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demons cruised to an easy 55 point win over the Hawks at the MCG but but paid a heavy toll on the injury front with Steven May & Jake Lever possibly sidelined for a number of weeks.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 363
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!
  • Podcast 

  • Podcast 

  • Podcast Stream 


    Open Stream in
    New Window
        TuneIn    Opens in New Tab
  • Support Demonland  



  • 2021 Premiership  

  • Social Media 

  • Non MFC Games  

    NON-MFC: Round 03

    Discussion of all the other games that don't involve the Demons in Round 03 ... READ MORE

    Demonland | Round 03

  • Match Preview      

    DEPTH CHARGE by Whispering Jack

    The jubilation on the coach’s face as he danced a celebratory jig by the playing bench after the final siren sounded to record his team’s four-point victory over the Demons when the teams last met, said it all ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 27

  • Latest Podcast      

    PODCAST: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The boys dissected the clinical thrashing of Hawks praising the immense performance of Christian Petracca whilst lamenting the injury toll to our defensive unit ... LISTEN

    Demonland | March 26

  • Training  

    Monday, 25th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Demon Dynasty & Kev Martin were trackside at Gosch's Paddock today to bring you their observations from training ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 25

  • Casey Report      

    HIBERNATING by KC from Casey

    When they locked up the rooms for summer at the end of last year’s football season, the rooms gathered cobwebs, the atmosphere became dense and the place developed a sleepy feel. They opened up the rooms to let Casey out to play on Sunday but the team was still hibernating and they missed the bulk of the opening quarter ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 25

  • PreGame      

    PREGAME: Rd 03 vs Port Adelaide

    The Demons head out on the road for the next 2 weeks as they travel to Adelaide to play Port on Saturday and then have a 5 Day break before facing the Crows in Gather Round. With injuries to May and Lever who comes in and who goes out? ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 28

  • Match Report      

    A FORK IN THE HAWK by George on the Outer

    For too long in the past, Demon fans became habitually sick and tired of watching the Hawks hand out thrashings to their side. But Melbourne’s empahtic 55-point win at the MCG on Saturday has truly put a fork in the Hawk and turned that history well and truly on its head ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Post Game      

    POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demons cruised to an easy 55 point win over the Hawks at the MCG but but paid a heavy toll on the injury front with Steven May & Jake Lever possibly sidelined for a number of weeks ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Votes      

    VOTES: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    Last week Steven May took the lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Jack Viney. Clayton Oliver & Max Gawn round out the Top 4. Your votes for the win/loss against/to the Hawks. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Game Day      

    GAMEDAY: Round 02 vs Hawthorn

    It's Game Day and after mixed results in the first two weeks of the season the Demons have the opportunity to capitalise on their good form last week when they take on the Hawks at the MCG today ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Training  

    Friday, 22nd March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatcher Kev Martin and I attended the Captain's Run at Gosch's Paddock on this lovely sunny morning to bring you the following observations from the training session ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 22

  • Training  

    Tuesday, 19th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin & Walking Civil War attended Tuesday morning's training session at Gosch's Paddock to bring you the following observations ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 19

  • Training  

    Saturday, 16th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin and Dee Zephyr wandered down to Gosch's Paddock on Saturday morning to bring you their observations from the Captain's Run in the lead up to Sunday's Round One match against the Bulldogs ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 16

  • Farewell  

    Angus Brayshaw Retires

    After 167 games including the drought breaking Premiership Angus Brayshaw has made the heart breaking decision to medically retire from football as a result of a series of serious head knocks over his nearly decade of footy. We wish Gus all the best and he'll always be a hero at Demonland ... READ MORE

    Demonland | February 22

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Koltyn Tholstrup Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club’s newest recruit Koltyn Tholstrup to have a chat about his journey from the farm to the Demons, his first few weeks of preseason training, which Dees have impressed him on the track and his aspirations of playing Round 1 ... LISTEN

    Demonland | December 14

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Jason Taylor Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club's National Recruitment Manager Jason Taylor to have a chat about our Trade and Draft period, our newest recruits, our recent recruits who have yet to debut as well as those father son prospects on the horizon ... LISTEN

    Demonland | November 27

  • Next Match 

    .

    Round 03

       vs   

    Saturday 30th March 2024
    @ 07:30pm (AO)

  • MFC Forum  

  • Match Previews & Reports  

  • Training Forum  

  • AFLW Forum  

  • 2024 Player Sponsorship

  • Topics

  • Injury List  


      PLAYER INJURY LENGTH
    Jake Lever Knee Test
    Clayton Oliver Hand Test
    Oliver Sestan Concussion Test
    Steven May Ribs 1 Week
    Lachie Hunter Calf 1 Week
    Daniel Turner Hip 2-3 Weeks
    Charlie Spargo Achilles 2-4 Weeks
    Shane McAdam Hamstring 3-5 Weeks
    Jake Bowey Shoulder 7 Weeks
    Jake Melksham ACL 12-14 Weeks
    Joel Smith Suspension TBA

  • Player of the Year  


        PLAYER VOTES
    1 Christian Petracca 27
    2 Steven May 25
    3 Max Gawn 21
    4 Jack Viney 20
    5 Bayley Fritsch 19
    6 Clayton Oliver 18
    7 Christian Salem 12
    8 Blake Howes 11
    9 Jack Billings 10
    9 Alex Neal-Bullen 10

        FULL TABLE
  • Demonland Interviews 



  • Upcoming Events 

×
×
  • Create New...