POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 9

[Akum 2,660]

29 minutes ago, qwerty7 said:

^{While yesterday was hugely disappointing and hurts a lot, I am trying to take a glass half full approach. We are a better side than North and should have won, but with the competition so close, unexpected losses and unexpected wins will happen (e.g. losing against North, winning against Adelaide).}

^{The absence of Gawn and Hogan is really being felt and if I told you that they’d only play for 3 and 4, respectively, of the first 12 games before the season started, you would have felt our chances were obliterated entirely – but they aren’t. We have been competitive in all our matches and have found ourselves in a winning position in every match. And ultimately, whilst our inconsistency does raise doubts, we still can make finals.}  

^{The reality of our situation is that we are still an inexperienced side and our winning culture still needs to be nurtured and developed before we can be considered a serious side. However, all it takes is one win for everything to click and I do believe that win will come this season. When it comes, it may be just enough time for us to string some games together and make finals, and it may be too late but will set us up well for a strong chance in 2018.}

^{We’re steering in the right direction and this will be the team and Goody will be the coach to break our premiership drought.}

 ^{NB: it will be the team once we have added either May or Lever to our back-line} 

Good post.

It's one thing to get into a winning position late in the game. It's another thing to pull off the win, whether you deserve it or not.

Even with all our deficiencies, injuries, structural problems, bad umpiring etc, this year we seem to have the first covered. But due to inexperience, it's the second that we're falling down on.

[praha 10,267]

52 minutes ago, Jaded said:

I'm a big Watts fan and supporter, but he was woeful yesterday. Did not attack contests, and went half arsed into tackles and chases. Maybe his body is tiring from so much ruck work, but really it's no excuse. He has played almost 150 games, and is one of the most experienced players in our side. He should do better.

Having said that, he was not alone. Lots of very disappointing performances last night!

Watts is stuffed. It's definitely an excuse. His body is just clearly not made for that sort of play. We're throwing a gazelle to the wolves. He could barely keep pace after half time yesterday. 

We badly need Spencer back. And when he comes back, if Goodwin drops Pederson, then the coach can head back to the VFL with him.

[Stretch Johnson 2,568]

Missing a genuine ruckman hurt us yesterday.

Forget the stats.  Generally when Norf  won a clearance it was to space and advantage and set up scoring opportunity.

Loved Hannan's game.  X Factor and smarts.

I think our bottom 3 or 4 hurt us and would expect some selection changes.

 

Edited May 22, 2017 by Stretch Johnson

[praha 10,267]

Just watched the replay.

Their last three goals are infuriating. Outnumbered us around the ball, handballed it around 3, 4, 5 times to North players just lingering around.

The North, Hawks, and Freo games have been almost identical in how we've lost them.

[Melb16 458]

Summary of us in the HS:

'A Demon takes the ball and streams forward with numbers in front of him. But Wait. Let's stop this promising foray forward by handballing sideways to a stationary teammate, who has an opponent next him'

This is our major issue for mine. People talk about bad quarters and not winning contested possession at stages. That is correct but no team is going to be 100% at every quarter for the entire season. Teams have lapses in every single game. We, nor any other team in any sport are going to play 100% for even a game let alone an entire season.

The point is, that when we aren't dominating in the contest and are under pressure, that we keep our structure and move the ball forward and make them defend. it won't be perfect, but instead of being outscored by 6-7 goals in that time, it might be 2-3. We continually try to be perfect when under pressure which plays perfectly into the opposition's hands.

[praha 10,267]

5 minutes ago, Melb16 said:

Summary of us in the HS:

'A Demon takes the ball and streams forward with numbers in front of him. But Wait. Let's stop this promising foray forward by handballing sideways to a stationary teammate, who has an opponent next him'

This is our major issue for mine. People talk about bad quarters and not winning contested possession at stages. That is correct but no team is going to be 100% at every quarter for the entire season. Teams have lapses in every single game. We, nor any other team in any sport are going to play 100% for even a game let alone an entire season.

The point is, that when we aren't dominating in the contest and are under pressure, that we keep our structure and move the ball forward and make them defend. it won't be perfect, but instead of being outscored by 6-7 goals in that time, it might be 2-3. We continually try to be perfect when under pressure which plays perfectly into the opposition's hands.

Yas. Like I mentioned in another thread, might work out better in the long run but atm it's costing us games. I can't fathom why a player looking straight towards our goal, with a direct line to kick forward, stops to handball sideways. It must be a directive.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,399]

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

There are still holes on our list.

We need a gun key defender that can handle big gun key forwards and we need a speedy outside link player.

I'm also in the camp that you can't play both McDonalds and Frost in defence.  

Lyon on SEN this morning said that if he were Todd Viney he'd be heavily targeting May from GC - we don't have a gorilla backman and get caned by these tall guys over and again (lucky Daniher couldn't kick straight)

[Dr. Gonzo 22,399]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Have you bought your North Membership yet?

at 0-6 they were a rabble, the MFC has for years assisted opposition teams to find form. 

Our first Q we didn't show up (again)

1 point loss to Geelong, 3 point loss to the Bulldogs, 5 point loss to Freo, absolutely demolished the undefeated Crows.

Yeah, a rabble 

Edited May 22, 2017 by Dr. Gonzo

[John Crow Batty 8,222]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Lyon on SEN this morning said that if he were Todd Viney he'd be heavily targeting May from GC - we don't have a gorilla backman and get caned by these tall guys over and again (lucky Daniher couldn't kick straight)

Now May has a good reason to tear us apart and up his currency this weekend.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,399]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

He gives far to much latitude to his opponent. If you are on a fwd...wear him...be unsocial. There were times it seemed he was that courteous to Brown i was thinking he was going to ask if he wanted a cuppa and a cake, such was the niceties of the afternoon !!

He wasn't tall/strong enough to just go 1:1 and wear him like a glove. He had to be smarter and try and read the play to make his own run at the ball. 

[Dr. Gonzo 22,399]

1 hour ago, Jaded said:

It's not Oscar. I can't understand why supporters have such tunnel vision that they think all our woes begin and end with 1 player. Oscar did OK under the circumstances against a much much bigger and more experienced opponent.

Supporters need a focus to direct their anger/frustration and other negative emotions towards, it's easier than critical analysis. It's like the 2 minutes if hate against Goldstein in 1984, visceral projection.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Dr. Gonzo

[beelzebub 22,225]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

He wasn't tall/strong enough to just go 1:1 and wear him like a glove. He had to be smarter and try and read the play to make his own run at the ball. 

He wasn't... clearly... smarter.

If you are playing the man ..and not zoning you DON'T stand behind...ever .

[Dr. Gonzo 22,399]

46 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

I have

That's because you've got Jack Watts blinkers on where any negative comment directed towards him is somehow evidence of him being targeted or scapegoated

[Chris 2,892]

31 minutes ago, praha said:

Just watched the replay.

Their last three goals are infuriating. Outnumbered us around the ball, handballed it around 3, 4, 5 times to North players just lingering around.

The North, Hawks, and Freo games have been almost identical in how we've lost them.

One of them they didn't even handball it around, just threw and we still did nothing!

[jumbo returns 6,484]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

That's because you've got Jack Watts blinkers on where any negative comment directed towards him is somehow evidence of him being targeted or scapegoated

No, not really

He's a good player whose been battered and bruised for five weeks and needs a rest

But, let's allow words like 'soft' and 'half hearted' permeate the discussion to allow ill informed posters spew forth their vitriol - there were plenty of players down yesterday, which you, yourself, have acknowledged

 

 

 

[DubDee 20,340]

still in a very bad mood

-1 Bugg  4 missed shots could have been the difference

-2 Watts  EXTEND YOUR ARMS WHEN GOING FOR A MARK FFS! played a soft disinterested game

-3 Weiderman Harsh on him but he is too young. we play with 17 when he is on the field. A few times he flew and didnt even touch the ball in flight. hardly brought the ball to ground or provided a target.  needs a month at casey

[DeeZee 6,719]

Really thought we may have turned the corner last week, but another false dawn is really frustrating .

If we keep this sort of form line up when Gawn and Hogan return then watch out.

[beelzebub 22,225]

10 minutes ago, Chris said:

One of them they didn't even handball it around, just threw and we still did nothing!

Disappointing wasn't it. It's as though...'oh well...we tried' 

[DubDee 20,340]

1 hour ago, qwerty7 said:

^{While yesterday was hugely disappointing and hurts a lot, I am trying to take a glass half full approach. We are a better side than North and should have won, but with the competition so close, unexpected losses and unexpected wins will happen (e.g. losing against North, winning against Adelaide).}

^{The absence of Gawn and Hogan is really being felt and if I told you that they’d only play for 3 and 4, respectively, of the first 12 games before the season started, you would have felt our chances were obliterated entirely – but they aren’t. We have been competitive in all our matches and have found ourselves in a winning position in every match. And ultimately, whilst our inconsistency does raise doubts, we still can make finals.}  

^{The reality of our situation is that we are still an inexperienced side and our winning culture still needs to be nurtured and developed before we can be considered a serious side. However, all it takes is one win for everything to click and I do believe that win will come this season. When it comes, it may be just enough time for us to string some games together and make finals, and it may be too late but will set us up well for a strong chance in 2018.}

^{We’re steering in the right direction and this will be the team and Goody will be the coach to break our premiership drought.}

 ^{NB: it will be the team once we have added either May or Lever to our back-line} 

I thought so but when a team continually beats you have to start to think that they might be better than us.

if they had kicked straight they would have beaten us easily

[Forest Demon 4,681]

Our best is better than theirs, but they are very consistent with their application. So no, we aren't a better team than them.

 

Edited May 22, 2017 by Forest Demon

[Chris 2,892]

9 minutes ago, DubDee said:

I thought so but when a team continually beats you have to start to think that they might be better than us.

if they had kicked straight they would have beaten us easily

They had 4 more scoring shots, if you take a 50% strike rate (which is about what both teams were going at) then they should have won by 2 goals, which is pretty much what they won by. 

[Akum 2,660]

57 minutes ago, Melb16 said:

Summary of us in the HS:

'A Demon takes the ball and streams forward with numbers in front of him. But Wait. Let's stop this promising foray forward by handballing sideways to a stationary teammate, who has an opponent next him'

This is our major issue for mine. People talk about bad quarters and not winning contested possession at stages. That is correct but no team is going to be 100% at every quarter for the entire season. Teams have lapses in every single game. We, nor any other team in any sport are going to play 100% for even a game let alone an entire season.

The point is, that when we aren't dominating in the contest and are under pressure, that we keep our structure and move the ball forward and make them defend. it won't be perfect, but instead of being outscored by 6-7 goals in that time, it might be 2-3. We continually try to be perfect when under pressure which plays perfectly into the opposition's hands.

Very good post.

With our radically attacking game plan, the only way we can stop the other side's run-on is to somehow seize back the initiative. There's no other way. This will work devastatingly well in another year or two, but right now, it's why we have to wait for a quarter break before we can get back on top (unless the coaches can make a move that creates a shift in momentum, but nothing worked from that quarter yesterday)

We seized back the initiative brilliantly in the last quarter, but as soon as Lewis's goal put us only 2 or 3 points down, we ... stopped. Just when we should have really put the hammer down, we simply handed the initiative back to them OK, that's "inexperience", but how many times does it have to happen until it's no longer "inexperience"?

[jnrmac 18,914]

2 hours ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

KB and whatshisname discussing MRP / dodgy umpiring from yesterday on SEN.

Cited the Watts shove out by Goldstein and Bernie doubled-over and dry retching on the bench after getting the knock. .  neither paid. 

I hope a little more media scrutiny on some the decision making continues through the day.

Wont help us.

[jnrmac 18,914]

2 hours ago, Jaded said:

It's not Oscar. I can't understand why supporters have such tunnel vision that they think all our woes begin and end with 1 player. Oscar did OK under the circumstances against a much much bigger and more experienced opponent.

The problem is our defensive structures. I don't like our zone defence, we are too easy to score against from a single turnover, and it kills us. We won ONE game at the G this year, that's deplorable. We can't switch fast enough on big grounds, and we've gone from being a defensively sound team, to being incredibly easy to score against on the counter attack. It's very disappointing and very worrying.

Goodwin needs to fix this and fast. If we can't win games at the G, we can't ever play or win finals. Simple.

Yeah it is. He has no intensity, has a Queen mary turning circle, can't tackle and gets isolated one on one so much that we need a second backman to babysit him. The last one is what takes away from the defensive structures.

Oscar didn't "do ok under the circumstances". He is a liability. I am not writing him off but he is only getting a game because he is tall and has no one else ready to replace him. We get smashed by strong tall fwds and it will continue with Oscar in the team. Needs to bulk up, gains some aggression and play closer to his man.

[DubDee 20,340]

36 minutes ago, Chris said:

They had 4 more scoring shots, if you take a 50% strike rate (which is about what both teams were going at) then they should have won by 2 goals, which is pretty much what they won by. 

I was mainly referring to their 13 scoring shots in the first quarter.  mostly gettable shots, they could have easily scored 9 goals and be up by 40 pts plus