POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 9

[John Crow Batty 8,242]

9 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You were on the Ben Brown bandwagon back then?

No I wasn't, but frustrated they had the big forward that would lead for his marks. We are stuck with Hogan, Watts and Weed who don't or can't. 

Edited May 21, 2017 by america de cali

[dazzledavey36 48,703]

29 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Ever thought he might be buggered? Shouldering the ruck for last 4 or 5 weeks or so? Having ruckmen that weigh 30 kilos or more heavier collide into him?

You probably haven't thought of that

Being soft and a squib around the contests is completely different to being tired? Did you think that one through?

Being tired still doesn't stop you from going in hard or at sticking your hands up to try and actually mark the ball.

[Akum 2,660]

31 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Stop putting words in people's mouths. Every other loss he's been quite good. But yesterday was like watching Jack from 2012. I understand Jack isn't the most hardest bloke in our team but he should have won a Logie for that dive he took out on the far wing. 

Also when the game is in the balance i look to players like Watts who is a senior player close to 150 games to stand up. He was extremely timid yesterday and i don't want to see that again.

See this is the sort of thing that really annoys me. He was setting himself to contest the mark with Goldstein, and Hansen took his eyes off the ball and shoulder-charged him long before the ball came, which allowed Goldstein to mark uncontested. If you're setting for a marking contest and an opponent just takes you out when you don't expect it, very few players could stay on their feet. Yet our "supporters" say he staged.

If after watching the replay you really do think that Watts staged that, you have no idea.

I've also seen comments that Oliver staged when he was sniped by Higgins in the first quarter, and that Vince staged when he was punched low in the gut by Cunnington - even when he was vomiting on the bench, the commentators were trying to say he was exaggerating. Unbelievable. 

[ProperDee 1,698]

What's the point in being angry? Disappointed maybe but a game of footy is not worth my anger. Abusers of women and children, drug importers, poverty, weak politicians....those things make me angry, not the footy.

 I see things a little differently than most here. Did we all really expect to be finals contenders this year or was that just wishful thinking? A brand new coach still finding his feet. A lot of guys playing their first season together. A horrific run with injuries. How many teams in the competition have an All Australian ruckman and Rising Star winning KPP even on their lists, let alone out injured?

Agreed that some of the umpiring decisions yesterday were ordinary but to suggest that an umpire is biased or cheating is blatantly wrong. We were beaten by a big, strong, mature defence, the inability to counter Goldstein's superiority and poor decision making. It didn't help that a few of our guys failed to have an impact (putting it nicely).  Tom Bugg can't be blamed though. He did all the hard work in actually getting the ball in his hands. Yeah, he missed goals but to do so, he won the footy first which is the main objective of the game. 

i have always said 2018 will be the year. This is still, as our coach said, " a developing team". It is only natural that we will have highs and lows. It is all a learning curve. Still, it is clear that there is a significant improvement in our efforts in comparison to previous years and that makes me happy. However when this team finally gels it will be devastatingly good. It is only about 10 months away. Hold on to your hats. 

Edited May 21, 2017 by ProperDee

[Wiseblood 24,636]

I know some bemoan the lack of leadership at times, but our midfield deserve some kudos.  Even without a proper ruckman, and in the last fortnight they've had to contend with two of the best ruckmen in the competition, they have still been able to win their fair share of clearances and keep us in the contest.  I think it's easy to over look how hard they have been working and how they have had to change their focus from roving to Max to roving to the opposition ruckman and being able to counter what they are doing.

I went to the game yesterday and said to a mate of mine who is a North supporter that they had Goldstein to fall back on all day.  When things got tight, Goldy got them first use and the all important clearance.  As our talls tired Goldy didn't get smaller and we just couldn't contend with that.

Oliver learned a valuable lesson yesterday as well.  He spent too much time trying to square up after the Higgins punch to his jaw, rather than answering them with the ball in his hands.  He'll get better from that.

[beelzebub 22,225]

Clearances are one thing, and to be applauded.

Its actually about what you do with them that counts more. We are miles away from any consistency in terms of delivery into our fwd 50 and thereafter any clue as to what to do.

Many thrusts fwd end in a turnover through overuse. 

We aren't clean users of the pill yet. Bloody good fumblers.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

10 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Clearances are one thing, and to be applauded.

Its actually about what you do with them that counts more. We are miles away from any consistency in terms of delivery into our fwd 50 and thereafter any clue as to what to do.

Many thrusts fwd end in a turnover through overuse. 

We aren't clean users of the pill yet. Bloody good fumblers.

I'll pass judgement on this when Max returns.  When you are roving to someone else it's hard to get a clearance in a position you want as their ruckman won't be hitting it there.  We get tackled a little easily as their players are right there waiting for the hitout from their own ruckman.

Agree re: being fumbly, though.  We did that a few times yesterday.

[beelzebub 22,225]

I thought as an exercise I'd list 3 positives from yesterday's debacle.

1) Hannan showed something. Actually something we need more of....poise...and clever decisions.

2) Hibberd has already become a staunch defender. Quite the rock back there. I dont hild my breath when he has it.

3) an up and down day for Frosty but i think he'll really become a bit of a folk hero to us supporters. Got some moxy

Im glad it was only 3 as there's f all else about that game 

[Maldonboy38 5,840]

It is another Monday morning with the same post-match-we-should-have-won grumpy deflation that I have experienced so much of over the years. I may  have developed a codependent addiction to it now that has become as familiar and psychologically comforting as my Monday morning coffee.

But I will also admit that I don't feel lost or without hope. One of my big hopes for this year was to be in every game with a chance of winning. That the Dees would bust their guts at the contest, be able to rally when behind, and challenge any team on any given day. And I am getting this each week. We are yet to develop outside consistent finishing class and the ability to finish off an opponent. I remain hopeful that these will emerge in the latter half of this season. 

Following this loss to North my fear is that we are becoming another one of those teams who are defined by missed opportunities. Richmond, Gold Coast, North Melbourne, any team under Ross Lyon - they all have this in common and we are now joining them. I look at our list and wonder if their are any/enough who can become finishers, match winners or able to totally crush opposition late in games. I cant see it in the near future, but I do remain hlpeful it will emerge soon. 

 

[layzie 28,652]

51 minutes ago, ProperDee said:

What's the point in being angry? Disappointed maybe but a game of footy is not worth my anger. Abusers of women and children, drug importers, poverty, weak politicians....those things make me angry, not the footy.

 I see things a little differently than most here. Did we all really expect to be finals contenders this year or was that just wishful thinking? A brand new coach still finding his feet. A lot of guys playing their first season together. A horrific run with injuries. How many teams in the competition have an All Australian ruckman and Rising Star winning KPP even on their lists, let alone out injured?

Agreed that some of the umpiring decisions yesterday were ordinary but to suggest that an umpire is biased or cheating is blatantly wrong. We were beaten by a big, strong, mature defence, the inability to counter Goldstein's superiority and poor decision making. It didn't help that a few of our guys failed to have an impact (putting it nicely).  Tom Bugg can't be blamed though. He did all the hard work in actually getting the ball in his hands. Yeah, he missed goals but to do so, he won the footy first which is the main objective of the game. 

i have always said 2018 will be the year. This is still, as our coach said, " a developing team". It is only natural that we will have highs and lows. It is all a learning curve. Still, it is clear that there is a significant improvement in our efforts in comparison to previous years and that makes me happy. However when this team finally gels it will be devastatingly good. It is only about 10 months away. Hold on to your hats. 

Well written. I do feel for the people who are frustrated and impatient. I'm one of them, but is it worth all the energy? 

I know how it goes, a lot of us are desperate. There is the fear that we (those who missed 64) will go through our whole life without tasting success. It is scary, but at the same time, it's kind of silly. As proper dee said it is a learning curve, these psychological issues we face can't be fixed overnight in my opinion. 

It's ok to feel frustrated but I guess what I'm saying is go easy on the team but probably more importantly go easy on yourselves.

Edited May 21, 2017 by layzie

[Demonsone 1,596]

Bottom line is their best is great and capable of matching it with any team!

Their worst is poor.....Its all about whats happening between their ears!

[jnrmac 18,940]

We still leak goals. Our defence plays a man down with Oscar.

[jumbo returns 6,486]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Being soft and a squib around the contests is completely different to being tired? Did you think that one through?

Being tired still doesn't stop you from going in hard or at sticking your hands up to try and actually mark the ball.

Give me a break

And, yes, it does

[Copuchas 756]

1 hour ago, ProperDee said:

Agreed that some of the umpiring decisions yesterday were ordinary but to suggest that an umpire is biased or cheating is blatantly wrong.

ProperDee, in the case of Nicholls I beg to differ.  He has a track record of blatant bias against the MFC that is so significant the club ought to be doing something about it.   Umpires, like players can have poor days.  But the Nicholls vendetta against the MFC has gone way past that possibility and is clearly a case of systemic bias.

[Gator 16,891]

There are still holes on our list.

We need a gun key defender that can handle big gun key forwards and we need a speedy outside link player.

I'm also in the camp that you can't play both McDonalds and Frost in defence.  

[beelzebub 22,225]

1 minute ago, ProDee said:

There are still holes on our list.

We need a gun key defender that can handle big gun key forwards and we need a speedy outside link player.

I'm also in the camp that you can't play both McDonalds and Frost in defence.  

Agree. Trade Oscar

[Sir Why You Little 34,430]

1 hour ago, DominatrixTyson said:

Mediocre at best? We're desperately trying to make the finals, while they're going for four straight. Not to mention they were a win away from a grand final in 2015, one that was shaped by biased west coast umpiring and they wouldve put up more of a fight against the Hawks. They've been playing good football this year despite being 0-6 and their close losses have mirrored ours. Kangaroos deserve more credit. And for not investing in pokie machines, maybe a little more.

Have you bought your North Membership yet?

at 0-6 they were a rabble, the MFC has for years assisted opposition teams to find form. 

Our first Q we didn't show up (again)

[beelzebub 22,225]

9 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

We still leak goals. Our defence plays a man down with Oscar.

He gives far to much latitude to his opponent. If you are on a fwd...wear him...be unsocial. There were times it seemed he was that courteous to Brown i was thinking he was going to ask if he wanted a cuppa and a cake, such was the niceties of the afternoon !!

[jumbo returns 6,486]

Leigh Matthews once spruiked that a ruckman doesn't matter - what a load of tripe

We are down an AA ruckman and one of the best forwards in the AFL

Take a breath

[Deemented Are Go! 3,599]

KB and whatshisname discussing MRP / dodgy umpiring from yesterday on SEN.

Cited the Watts shove out by Goldstein and Bernie doubled-over and dry retching on the bench after getting the knock. .  neither paid. 

I hope a little more media scrutiny on some the decision making continues through the day.

[Bells 155]

I'm home sick with a crappy cold today.  Decided to watch a replay of the game - with my passion taken out of it.

The umpires made a huge difference.  I know it's poor form to blame the umps but the amount of deliberate trips they missed, along with 360's not called holding the ball, Watts being held for most of the game, head highs missed and stupid DOOB calls, inevitably in Norths forward half really impacted our momentum, time after time.

These players are putting in effort,they do want to win, it's not mental weakness.  Currently our structure is missing key players and many players are lacking experience.  No ruck against Goldstein, and we only just lost.  the worst you can call me is an optimist, but I see a bright future ahead for the Dee's.  Yes patience is hard, yes we want to win all of the games but to all of you who are digging into the players, the coach and the club, do you really think we are that bad?  Have we been monstered by any side this season?   Nope we have been in a position to win in all of our games, we are getting closer.  You don't go from rock bottom to the greatest heights overnight.  Remember that game one is the only game ths season that we have had our best team on.

 

[jumbo returns 6,486]

2 minutes ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

KB and whatshisname discussing MRP / dodgy umpiring from yesterday on SEN.

Cited the Watts shove out by Goldstein and Bernie doubled-over and dry retching on the bench after getting the knock. .  neither paid. 

I hope a little more media scrutiny on some the decision making continues through the day.

That was a 'dive' according to some on this forum

[Bells 155]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

Reckon you might be on to something. He looked spent ( ill almost ... probably not..but looking it ) . Looked a shell of himself.

I thought he looked pale and sickly right from the beginning of the game.

[Deemented Are Go! 3,599]

1 minute ago, jumbo returns said:

That was a 'dive' according to some on this forum

Indeed, was subtly trying to highlight just that. 

[beelzebub 22,225]

1 minute ago, Bells said:

I thought he looked pale and sickly right from the beginning of the game.

Actually i did to. Hence my comments earlier that he looked ill.